Police bullet lodged in gunman's weapon


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Can'thavenuthingood
April 27, 2006, 08:46 PM
Some really crack shots here. Practice, practice and more practice.

Vick

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1120314.php

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/268168_shootingfollow27.html

Amazing shot cited as self-defense
Police bullet lodged in gunman's weapon

Thursday, April 27, 2006

By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTER

A highly improbable shot left an officer's bullet in the cylinder of a gunman's revolver, and police say it's a pretty clear sign that the officers who shot the man faced a deadly threat.

"Physically, it is impossible to conclude anything other than the fact the suspect was pointing directly at the officers," Deputy Chief Clark Kimerer said Wednesday, adding, "I've not seen anything quite like that in my 24 years."



This photo, provided by the Seattle Police Department, shows the damaged cartridge in the cylinder of the gunman's revolver.
Wednesday, the King County Medical Examiner's Office had yet to release the identity of the gunman and were still trying to notify his next of kin. Kimerer said the man turned 18 about a month ago.

The shooting was the latest in what has been a very bloody month for Seattle. Since March 25, there have been 10 gun-related deaths and at least 10 people injured.

Seven people died March 25 in the city's second-largest mass slaying. Two people were wounded.

On April 15, three men were injured at a nightclub shooting. The next evening, one man was wounded in a shooting in the Central District. On Saturday, one man died and two men were wounded in a shooting in Pioneer Square.

On Sunday, a man was shot and wounded as he slept in a Lake City home. Also Sunday, a North Seattle man shot and killed himself after shooting at passing cars, his neighbors' home and arriving police officers. One officer was wounded by bullet fragments.

In the Tuesday shooting, police again found themselves facing a life and death situation.



This photo, which was provided by the Seattle Police Department, shows the brass cartridge being pushed out the rear of the cylinder on the gunman's revolver.
The shooting happened just after 8:15 p.m. near the corner of Broadway East and East John Street on Capitol Hill.

At a news conference at police headquarters Wednesday, Kimerer said investigators learned that the gunman had had an argument with a female friend shortly before the shooting.

Afterward, Kimerer said, the young man walked down Broadway and got into a fight with another man. At some point, a gun he was carrying fell to the ground.

Kimerer said the gunman simply reholstered the weapon behind his back.

A merchant called 911, as did others.

Two East Precinct patrol officers arrived in less than two minutes, he said.

The two officers approached the young man near a bus stop. Though the man was suspected of being armed, the officers did not see a weapon, so at first they planned to restrain him.

When the man turned to face them, the officers ordered him to get on the ground and show his hands.

The warning, Kimerer said, was heard by several witnesses.

Instead of complying, "the suspect reached behind his back with both hands," he said.

Out came a revolver, police officers said.

The officers ordered the man to drop the gun. Instead, police said, he squared up against them. "The officers returned fire in response to that deadly threat," Kimerer said.

Both officers, armed with Glock .40 caliber semi-automatic handguns, fired. One fired four shots; the second, three shots.

One of those bullets ended up in the gunman's gun -- jammed into the cylinder of his revolver. The department released photos Wednesday showing the cracked brass of a bullet shoved out of the rear of one chamber.

Fire medics arrived but were unable to revive the man.

Investigators have learned from at least one witness that the man had said earlier in the evening that he would draw his weapon if confronted by police. Police had said earlier that he was recently released from a substance abuse treatment center, but Wednesday Kimerer said he could not confirm that.

Seattle police officers are dealing more and more with people experiencing mental health crises. Partly in response to this, all officers now routinely attend an eight-hour seminar on crisis intervention.

Statistics the department maintains on incidents of Taser use bear out that patrol officers are seeing many cases of subjects with some type of impairment. In its most recent report, in January, the department noted that of the 800-plus incidents of Taser use in 2001, 72 percent of the subjects encountered were impaired by alcohol of drugs or were mentally ill.

Both officers involved in Tuesday's shooting have been placed on administrative leave.

Kimerer praised the officers for their courage in taking on an armed man, and for their tactical skill in preventing any other injuries. He also said officers were grateful for the amount of help provided by people at the scene.

Detectives will continue to investigate the background of the young man, but determining a motive may prove difficult. "We may never know exactly what happened," Kimerer said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P-I reporter Hector Castro can be reached at 206-903-5396 or hectorcastro@seattlepi.com.

© 1998-2006 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

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Standing Wolf
April 27, 2006, 09:15 PM
Kimerer said the man turned 18 about a month ago.

Fire medics arrived but were unable to revive the man.

Didn't take him long to move from juvenile probation to the morgue.

rbernie
April 27, 2006, 10:55 PM
Seattle police officers are dealing more and more with people experiencing mental health crises.Isn't this where we start making PacNorWet jokes? :neener:

BullfrogKen
April 28, 2006, 12:01 AM
Amazing shot cited as self-defense
Police bullet lodged in gunman's weapon

This isn't as uncommon or amazing as most think. We've seen probably half a dozen incidents of this in simunitions over the past decade and a half since our study group has existed and been able to obtain it.

Its the reason why our role players wear gloves - they got tired of having their hands shot with sim rounds every month.

Consider that for a gun to be employed, it is usually presented out in front of the body at some length and aimed in some fashion. When fired is returned, the rounds must sometimes pass through extended arms, hands - and the pistol those hands grasp - on its way to center mass.

Its not unusual at all to have a hand, arm, or weapon knocked out in a fight because they are in the round's path. Stories like this reminds us of the validity of one hand drills, or cause some to decide to carry a second gun.

I've shot hands in such ways as a role player. I never aimed to do it, it just happened. In one instance the practitioner was not wearing gloves, and the impact caused an involuntary startle reaction, as if he had touched a hot stove. He was out of the fight for a good 15 seconds while he focused attention on his hand, incredulous as to how it out of nowhere was injured and bleeding.

In the famous Miami FBI gunfight, one agent had his revolver fouled up and unoperable when pieces of bone and flesh from his injured hand became lodged in the cylinder and extractor when he attempted to reload.

MatthewVanitas
April 28, 2006, 12:38 AM
I'm squinting at the photo: is that a Prancing Pony on the grips? Is this some large-frame Colt revolver?


It's a morbid sign of gungeekiness: when the headlines say "Brutal Shooting at Thompson Mall", your first thought is "what kind of gun did he shoot them with?"

-MV

BullfrogKen
April 28, 2006, 12:41 AM
By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTERThe shooting was the latest in what has been a very bloody month for Seattle. Since March 25, there have been 10 gun-related deaths and at least 10 people injured.

Its fitting I cite his name in pink.

I almost missed this part of the story. The weasel reporter is trying to somehow suggest this shooting adds to the problems of the city when he lumps it in with the rest they've seen since last month. Police shooting folks pointing guns at them get, by some literary stretch of common sense, lumped in with the thugs committing criminal acts on each other. Yeah . . . the police really add to the state of outlaws shooting each others.

Knob Creeker
April 28, 2006, 02:58 AM
This has actually happened in a shoot out with police at least once before. I cannot remember where, but I have seen a photo of a revolver that had been shot in a similar manner. The lead bullet that struck the cylinder prevented it from rotating and jammed the gun. Seems like it was the cop’s revolver that got hit, rather than the perps. I’ll see if I can dig up the photo.

It's a morbid sign of gungeekiness: when the headlines say "Brutal Shooting at Thompson Mall", your first thought is "what kind of gun did he shoot them with?"

The first thing that went through my mind was the irony that it happened at the Thompson mall.

Cosmoline
April 28, 2006, 03:21 AM
The COLT OFFICERS TARGET ended up as, wait for it,



THE OFFICER'S TARGET

badaboom

Sistema1927
April 28, 2006, 09:24 AM
18? Another "child" killed by evil firearms.:fire:



I always knew that revolvers weren't dependable. Any weapon that won't take a direct hit and keep on working isn't worth staking your life on. :neener:

Dain Bramage
April 28, 2006, 10:00 AM
We should give Hector Castro, the reporter, a little break. In a recent story he mentions an "SKS rifle" being used in a crime. I almost fell out of my chair at hearing an accurate firearm description used in the Seattle P-I.

Every where else, the SKS is a Bullet-Hose Bazookoid Assault Device.

Ric
April 28, 2006, 11:10 AM
I was reading an article somewhere recently that talked about how often an assailants gun or hand gets shot. The idea was that people tend to focus on the threat, ie the gun or knife.
I'm glad the good guys are ok and the bad guys not.

insidious_calm
April 28, 2006, 11:17 AM
I can't believe I'm first to post this, but........


[Maxwell Smart]Oh, the ol' bullet in the barrel trick, eh?[/Maxwell Smart]



:neener:

I.C.

Joe7cri
April 28, 2006, 11:50 AM
A highly improbable shot left an officer's bullet in the cylinder of a gunman's revolver

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than Good:cool:

El Tejon
April 28, 2006, 01:02 PM
Not luck. Shot up weapons happen all the time. The shooters are looking at the gun as the threat not the person with the gun.

madmike
April 28, 2006, 01:16 PM
THere's one in the Ripley's Museum from the 1880s, where the marshal's bullet went DOWN THE BARREL AND BULGED it.

Impressive.

I hate to sound crass, but better this stupid punk die now than take others with him and give honest gun owners a bad name.

Nice shooting, officers.:D

They also saved us a trial.

Double Naught Spy
April 28, 2006, 06:52 PM
Standing Wolf said, Didn't take him long to move from juvenile probation to the morgue.

How did you come up with the guy being in juvenile probbation? No such information was reported.

C96
April 28, 2006, 09:02 PM
I think the proper term is "target fixation". Happens often and not just in gun fights.

Dr.Who
April 28, 2006, 11:45 PM
It's too Bad those prancing ponies will never see anymore target shooting....

win71
April 29, 2006, 11:09 AM
This used to happen with alarming frequency in the “old” days. Why do you think the blunderbuss failed so miserably.

Bob F.
April 29, 2006, 12:36 PM
Firefight years ago near where I lived. SP buckshot pellet lodged in BG's 1911 ejection port/chamber, jamming it. Unfortunately, BG, who had told CI he'd not be taken alive, surrendered. Being housed at tax-payer expense.

Stay safe.
Bob

p35
May 3, 2006, 07:32 PM
OK, a .40" diameter bullet down a .357" diameter charge hole...hmm, must have been some ballistic swaging going on.

madmike
May 3, 2006, 09:09 PM
It could have swaged, or just shattered and part of it gone down the chamber.

zahc
May 3, 2006, 09:49 PM
The shooters are looking at the gun as the threat not the person with the gun.

Bingo. What do we know from instictive archery?

See it...Hit it.

How many deer do you see with arrows sticking in the rack? Around here it's a lot. You hit what you are looking at, which is very likely the other guy's gun.

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