Is an FFL needed to ship


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Mike Sr.
May 1, 2006, 06:11 PM
A stupid post...musta been a Metamusil hang over!

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Husker1911
May 1, 2006, 06:14 PM
Mike, there seems to be some trouble with your post. Why the heck are you posting some words in gigantic size? It's annoying as heck to read your post.

Coltdriver
May 1, 2006, 06:19 PM
You are correct about a rifle to FFL holder if you are shipping usps or otherwise (fedex, ups).

However, you can not ship a hand gun to an ffl via USPS unless you are an FFL holder too.

Theres a lot of confusion on the topic. Seems like you got aggravated at some point?

Mike Sr.
May 1, 2006, 06:29 PM
What a dork!

SIOP
May 1, 2006, 07:31 PM
Well, this is such a screwed-up post it's almost not worth responding to, but let's start with this statement, which is 100% wrong:

Wood sum-1 on this site INFORM any FFL holder that he is not required to have an FFL from the FFL he plans on shipping to!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully, none of the ignorant FFL holders who are not educated about ship'n & receive'n will pay any attention to you.

waterhouse
May 1, 2006, 07:56 PM
Wood sum-1 enlighten folks on this site that a firearm [long gun] can be shipped to a FFL holder by a person without an FFL.

This is true. It is also true that many FFLs choose, as is their right as a business owner, to only accept shipments from other FFLs.

Wood sum-1 on this site INFORM any FFL holder that he is not required to have an FFL from the FFL he plans on shipping to!!!!!!!!!!!

Could you please enlighten me as to where you heard this? The ATF has repeatedly stated that the EZ check site is not a substitute for a paper copy of the license. Only recently (last year) did they begin to allow the use of faxed copies of the license. They have repeated told me that emailed copies are still not acceptable. If emailed copies aren't acceptable, I have a feeling that they would frown on a total lack of any copy. Do you have anything in writing to back up your statements? The ATF newsletter just came last week, and I just reread it before posting. I saw no mention of this change in procedure that you seem so sure of.

orionengnr
May 1, 2006, 08:00 PM
"wood some 1"

learn to spell, use grammar and diction appropriate for an adult board with adult subject matter? Please? :banghead:

Mike Sr.
May 2, 2006, 09:46 AM
grrrrr.

SIOP
May 2, 2006, 09:52 AM
*** SIOP, which one of these 7-words, in BOLD, do you not understand?

Well, your original statement refers to FFL to FFL shipments, both of your referenced quotes refer to non-FFL to FFL shipments. So you're comparing apples to oranges.

Mike Sr.
May 2, 2006, 10:05 AM
Oh NO!

kfranz
May 2, 2006, 10:06 AM
Just when you figured you'd seen the dumbest post ever on the internet, a new one pops up to vie for the title....

Private individuals can ship to FFL's, no paperwork required. FFL's cannot ship to Non-ffl's, unless it is return shipping something they've fixed/worked on.

SIOP
May 2, 2006, 10:07 AM
If shipper is an FFL holder he is not reguired to REQUIRE an FFL from receipent.



(F8) In transactions between licensees, how is the seller assured that a purchaser of a firearm is a licensed dealer? [Back]

Verification must be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the transferee's license and by any other means the transferor deems necessary. [27 CFR 178.94]

EOD Guy
May 2, 2006, 10:08 AM
""Wood sum-1 on this site INFORM any FFL holder that he is not required to have an FFL from the FFL he plans on shipping to!!!!!!!!!!! ""

That's incorrect. In a transfer between licensees, Federal law requires that a shipping FFL must have a certified copy of a receiving FFLs license prior to shipping. See 27CFR 478.94.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart F_Conduct of Business

Sec. 478.94 Sales or deliveries between licensees.

A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer
selling or otherwise disposing of firearms, and a licensed collector
selling or otherwise disposing of curios or relics, to another licensee
shall verify the identity and licensed status of the transferee prior to
making the transaction. Verification shall be established by the
transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the
transferee's license and by such other means as the transferor deems
necessary.

Mike Sr.
May 2, 2006, 10:19 AM
SIOP: https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

Mike Sr.
May 2, 2006, 10:24 AM
d'd

SIOP
May 2, 2006, 10:29 AM
And I will follow up on this with the local ATF office here and I'll get something in writing...if someone will post it, I will send them a copy of the letter.

The number is 402-493-4183. Ask for Mr. Lake.

Mike Sr.
May 2, 2006, 10:36 AM
SIOP, thanks for the P#.

waterhouse
May 2, 2006, 11:09 AM
There is a lot of ambiguity when dealing with the ATF. Not to be rude, but I can't see how this is one of those cases. The law is clear, and it has been posted here. A dealer must have a copy of the FFL where the gun is being sent.


You r rite it is iz annoying....and so r the ignorant FFL holders who are not educated about ship'n & receive'n......grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Perhaps you might want to reconsider calling dealers ignorant. The laws have been clearly posted here, and the relevant section has even been put in bold face. I asked in my previous post where you had gotten your information from. I have not seen a response that refutes the written law.

ETA: I notice you keep pointing to the EZ Check website. Perhaps your confusion lies in the statement: "Verification shall be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the transferee's license and by such other means as the transferor deems
necessary."

The EZ check site is not a substitute for a certified copy of an FFL. It falls under the "and by such other means as the transferor deems necessary" clause. If I feel that a certified copy of an FFL isn't good enough (perhaps I think it was forged) then I can use the EZ Check site as "other means" to help verify the original.

EOD Guy
May 2, 2006, 12:27 PM
I think the confusion might arise when trying to compare different parts of the regulation.

There are different requirements between licensees and unlicensed persons. It is perfectly legal for an unlicensed individual to ship a firearm to an FFL. That unlicensed person does not need a copy of the receiving FFL's license. However, the regulations treat licensees diferently. When an FFL is shipping to another FFL, he must have a certified copy of the receiving dealer's license in hand. It can be a faxed copy.

WARNING! Do not try and use logic or common sense when interpreting the regulations. They will only get you in trouble.

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