9mm vs .38 Special

[DontShootMe]

In Kalifornia, where the mag capacity is limited to 10:

In your opinion, which round is 'better' or 'worse' for Home Defense?

9mm +P - 10 rounds

or

.38 Special +P - 7 round cylinder

or at least which one should I grab FIRST if the SHTF?

[Mike Irwin]

How about the one you shoot and handle the best?

[P95Carry]

I carry my P95 when I can ... winter and into spring and fall . otherwise I use an M85 snubby. The 10 shot access is a major factor in choice ... plus ease of reload with spare mag ..... the snub of course is limited to 5 shots and then a speedload . slower than the 9mm by far.

Ballistics ...... well, no figures to hand re the +P variants but, using non +P examples instead .. we could have figures like this (both based on 125 FMJ)

38spl ...... approx 1,000 fps ....... equates to ..... 280 ft lbs nom.

9mm ..... approx 1150 fps ....... equates to ..... 370 ft lbs nom.

These figures are sorta averaged, out of reloading data . but broadly it shows up the 9mm as having the edge quite considerably re ME. A load for 38 I'd choose however might be 158 grn lead ... listed as around 920 fps ... which then equates to a slightly higher ME of 300 ft lbs nom.

Overall it'd be 9mm for me ... and for SD of course . in my case ... Hydrashocks (110 grn and what? ... say 1200 fps .. giving 350 ft lbs).

[JohnK]

which one should I grab FIRST if the SHTF?

The one that's closer so you can make it to your rifle or shotgun.

For home defense I don't think it makes a difference. Use the one that's most reliable and that you shoot best and don't worry about minor ballistic differences.

Load either one with any of the best/better defense loads for that caliber and you should be good to go.

[Jim March]

The 9 is hotter in terms of raw energy.

The 38 partially "catches up" in that the bullet's nose doesn't have to compromise for feed ramps. You can run really seriously big JHP cavities - the Winchester 130grain 38+P Supreme is a good example of a JHP cavity simply not seen in the 9mm universe.

If Cor-Bon ever minaturized the Pow'R'Ball down to 9mm like they say they will, that could cancel out a lot of the advantage the 38 holds in this area. Until then, I'd say that WELL CHOSEN 38+P fodder from a 4" tube equals the effect of at least 90% of the 9mm loads out there.

[ChristopherG]

The difference, ballistically, is a wash, if you're not too swayed by 'energy' calculations (there's a good case to be made that plain old momentum is more important in SD ammo). From a 4" barrelled .38, you could push a 125 gr. JHP +p at about 1000 fps; a 9mm will give you a couple hundred extra fps from a 124 gr. bullet, but at HD ranges, it's not gonna matter. Or, if you go heavier, as I prefer, you can get 890 fps from a .38 LSWCHP +p at 158 gr., or 980 from a 147 gr. JHP in 9mm. As I say, a wash.

Of course, if you're limited to less than a high-quality semi-auto, the choice goes to the revolver on reliability grounds. But if you can get into a Sig, HK, Glock, or something else that reputation and experience show you is utterly reliable, then it's just a question of your own shooting preference.

Unless you're married or otherwise cohabiting. I shoot a Glock much more regularly than my 686+, but the revolver is the one that stays handy in a Gunvault, 'cause my sweetheart's a little more comfortable with it, and I do fine with it, and 7 shots is enough to get the family rounded up and get the shotgun out of the big safe.

Sure, some freak-out circumstance could make you want an extra 4, but if you're losing sleep over that, you need another hobby ;) Good luck, and enjoy shooting the snot out of whatever you go with.

CG

[Handy]

9mm in +P loadings is actually closer to .357 defense loads than .38 +P.

Like everyone says, the more effective tool is the one you can use more effectively.

For me, it's an auto because you get more power for less recoil, but if you already have a good .38 revolver, it's not a boat anchor.


But if the question is purely ballistics, a 9mm (revolver or auto) is going to hit harder than any .38 Special load.

[tbeb]

I'd grab the 9mm. Mine is loaded with standard pressure Federal 115 gr. JHP.

[DontShootMe]

Tanx guys! :)

[caz223]

Grab 9mm, make it to the shotgun in the next room.
Better yet, keep shotgun where you'll be close when SHTF.

[cool45auto]

Mike Irwin: Hear! Hear!

[Admiral Thrawn]

Go for the 9x19mm in a quality semi-auto.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

From the weapon side of the issue, I would grab
the 9m/m; however, from the cartridge side of
the same issue I'd have to recommend the .38 Special.
First and foremost, if TSHTF grab whatever is close to
you, to fend off the attack!:uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[PCRCCW]

With 9mms approaching 500 FPE Ill take it over a 38+P....for a home defense weapon..Ill take the 9mm over a 357 mag.....
Shoot well

[DonGlock26]

Think of a 9mm Auto as a 10+1 shot .38+P+ revolver. Get a quality semi-auto and go to a training class. 9mm ammo is cheap for pratice.

[Kentucky Rifle]

I don't have a 9MM yet. (Hangs head) As many pistols as I have, I just haven't found "THE" 9MM. However, The thing I've always heard is that "the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet". I don't even know what that means, but I've heard it~A LOT!

Hey! Can anyone offer an explanation as to what that means?

Thanks,
KR

[Akurat]

9mm. More power, less recoil (out of an autoloader), more rounds.

[P95Carry]

KY Rifle ........ "the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet" Nope, not that IMO . in fact it would be difficult for feed reasons, to be able to have, for example, a semi wad cutter profile .. as has found to be useful in 38 spl.

Straigh fmj ammo in 9mm is no better or worse a bullet design IMO than same in 38..... tho usually, the weight will go higher for 38. ... eg 125 grn in 9mm vs perhaps 158 grn in 38.

Of course, things like Hydrashocks feed good in 9mm (usually) and so there could say bullet design was useful .. plus the energy advantage maybe..... but hydrashocks available for 38 spl also.

[Logistar]

"the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet" There is one argument you might make about it being a better designed bullet and I probably agree.

It isn't really the bullet (bullet design would actually go to the .38 special due to the fact that it doesn't need to feed) but it is the cartridge that is "better".

In my opinion, the .38 special WASTES space due to it's cartridge being larger than the 9mm. I can carry more 9mm in the same space and weight than I can .38 special. I like that.

Logistar

[Jim March]

The "bullet design advantage" goes to the 38, not the 9, so long as we're talking about projectiles.

True, the case is oversize, being the very last black powder cartridge ever designed. But while that doesn't help with bulk storage or gun size issues, it does reduce the peak pressure needed to get the same ballistics a shorter case would generate, and that makes the shot-to-shot speed better. Total felt recoil is a function of the raw ballistics but a lower-pressure version will do it's recoil as less of a "sharp crack" and more of a "big gentle push".

A lot of people are noticing that the 45LC loaded hot (+P) is easier to control and less painful than a ballistically equivelent 44Maggie. Same thing: it's the larger case size and lower peak pressures that result.

[Logistar]

The 9mm cartridge is smaller than the .38. If we assume for a sec that the 9mm and .38 have the same ballistics from a 6 in barrel.... would the 9 be better from a shorter (say 3-in) barrel?

Would the powder burn more quickly in the 9 so that it gets the bullet up to speed before it leaves the short barrel while the "slow-burning" powder of the .38 would still be burning long after the bullet leaves the barrel?

I may be WAY-OFF here in my reasoning but I always thought this might be an advantage of a 9 in a short barreled gun.

Can anyone set me straight on this?:confused:

Logistar

[Jim March]

Errr...no, I don't think that's how it works.

OK, study the ballistics of the 45LC in a strong gun like the Rugers versus the 44Maggie. There's a ton of info on the subject at http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh

You'll note that as long as everything else is done right, you can get serious performance out of the 45LC with the slowest burn powers available (H110 or similar) even out of short barrels. You have to run heavy bullets at 300grains or bigger for reasons Linebaugh goes into, to use powder THAT slow. The 45LC can also do everything the 45ACP can do - you just alter the powder charge and type some, and use the same projectiles (this is what Cor-Bon and Proload do for personal defense loads).

I strongly think the 38Spl can be "tuned" for whatever bullet weight and barrel length you want. Ditto the 9mm, except that you need a higher "minimum power level" to rack the slide - 38/38+P power levels vary far more than 9mm I believe (38 148grain target loads are a whole nuther thing from the best +P defense loads).

The only real effect of the longer case in 38 is to alter the powder type needed just a bit versus 9mm, and lower the peak pressure. Everything else is a wash.

[Doc]

isn't the disagreement/discussion supposed to be 9mm vs 45 ACP ?


:D

IMHO I shoot and control semi-auto's better than light small powerful revolvers.

For me, I like a 45 LC in a full frame revolver. Lots of mass, plenty of K.E. :scrutiny:

[sm]

9mm vs 38spl.

Gun fit
Which do you shoot the best.
Which have you shot the carry ammo in and KNOW for sure that it is reliable evertime, and affords you quick accurate hits.

[WebHobbit]

I have the answer:

They both suck compared to:

1) .357
2) .40
3) .45

:p

Seriously though they are very similar. The best +p 9mms are better than the best +p .38s but anything less is fairly close.

[Gordon]

A friend of mine has a snub Ruger in 9mm . With 115 grain ammo it was getting about 950fps across my chrono. I can get that with 125 grain .38spl bullets in same length identical Ruger snub. In a 6 1/2 Ruger convertable 9mm loads do about what factory ballistics say they do in 5" pistol say 1220 for 124grain loads. Once again I can (almost) match that with +power .38spl loads 125grainbullets at 1150 with 19000psi versus 124 grains at 1220fps with 33000 psi. Let me run 33000 psi loads in .357 cases and NO CONTEST = 1400fps.:cool:

[Logistar]

Thanks Jim! I'll check out that link.

Logistar

[Clark]

The 38 sp case is capable of higher pressure than the 9mm case, as well as more capacity.

This makes the 38 sp potentially more powerful than the 9mm's greatest potential.

I have a 38 sp that kicks like a 44 mag with handloads.

[Rebeldon]

I don't really think it's going to matter a whole lot. Both rounds can pretty much kill a human intruder.

[WebHobbit]

A .22 is quite capable of killing but for SD you want stopping power -- a totally different scenario. But I agree these two calibers are pretty close.

[Handy]

There are only two terminal ballistic arguements to be made:

Velocity. For any given normal bullet weight, the 9mm will have more velocity than any +P .38 load. The reason doesn't matter much.

Bullet design. A revolver can utilize a larger initial HP cavity than a self loader. That can be an advantage IF the cartridge has enough velocity to impart adequate penetration to a really wide mouthed bullet.

The second one is up for grabs, but there are plenty of examples of the faster 9mm loads that don't get adequate penetration with their smaller HPs. That doesn't bode well for the even lower velocity .38.

In other words, who cares if the bullet mushrooms really well if it doesn't come with enough velocity to penetrate as well?

[winwun]

I suppose if someone did the chrony work they could come up with percentage figures showing the efficacy of the 9 over the 38 due to the 9 being fired from a closed system as opposed to the 38 loosing a lot out the front of the chamber. Basic data would be standard, bullet type, weight, powder type & weight, etc. Variables would be distance from the front of cylinder to barrel cone and fit of 9 chamber. Having fired both quite a bit, I would hazard a guess that the 9 would come out on top by around 20%.

[denfoote]

I have always thought of the 9mm as a metric .38spl.

That said, I have a Walther P99 under my pillow, with 17 rounds (16 in mag. 1 in chamber) of 115gr 9mm loaded into it. My wife has a Glock 26, under her's, with 18 rounds (17 in mag, 1 in chamber) of 115gr 9mm loaded into it.

When I have my Taurus 85 loaded up, I have 5 rounds of 125gr +P Gold Dots ready to do battle.

I am a firm believer in the "shoot until the threat goes away" theory. With the revolver, I only have 5 rounds until I have to reload!! :eek:

The math is quite clear. The cartridges are almost ballisticlly similar. More is better!!! :evil:

[Penforhire]

Denfoote, what a coincidence. My nightstand Gunvault has a P99 and a 686. This thread is excellent in posing one of my quandrys. Which weapon should I employ first? Many here would say use 357 Mag in the 686 and be done with it. But comparing +p 38 Spl to 9 mm, say Hydrashocks or SXT for both cases, is very relevant to me.

Funny how many people will gripe about the lower mag capacity of a revolver but still recommend getting the shotgun first. Yes, the buckshot is impressive but you don't get that many rounds (at least not in my 870 Express).

[jc2]

suppose if someone did the chrony work they could come up with percentage figures showing the efficacy of the 9 over the 38 due to the 9 being fired from a closed system as opposed to the 38 loosing a lot out the front of the chamber.
It doesn't really work out that way though you'd think so. From the figures I've seen posted for 9mm revolvers the loss is minimal to nonexistent. It just not as big of deal in real life as it seems it would be. Maybe (just speculating) the energy required to operate the slide cancels out the energy lost in the cylinder gap.

[DontShootMe]

My wife has a Glock 26, under her's, with 18 rounds (17 in mag, 1 in chamber)

Under her pillow? just laying under there? What if she pulls the trigger in her sleep? Is it pointed at you?

:what:

[denfoote]

Under her pillow? just laying under there? What if she pulls the trigger in her sleep? Is it pointed at you?

No offence, but you are from the Peoples Republic, right??

Many of us who enjoy living in freedom, trust our spouses with firearms. The BS you have been feed by the commies there, about getting shot by your loved one, is pure propaganda. Sure, she has a pistol under her pillow!! In fact, I gave the weapon to her and insisted she keep it there. BS like gunsafes are not required here in the gun freedom state of Arizona!! Having the weapon handy in an emergency just might provide you with the needed seconds to save your life!!

Let me tell you a little bit about this G26. It has had a trigger job done on it. It has about a 3lb trigger pull!!! Do I trust my wife?? You betcha!! :D

[Gordon]

Although a 9mm is without a doubt the more 'efficient' cartridge working at about twice the psi and with a 30% smaller case, it can't do what a 38spl can. For instance I have some old reloader study on heavy cast bullets in 9mm and they had trouble breaking 900fps with 158 grain bullets in 5" barreled guns. And feeding anything over 147grains seems very poor.I can get a 4" barreled 38.spl to go 1000fps with a 158grain cast bullet with less than 20,000 pound pressure (about like factory + power). So where is the 9mm advantage unless you like 125 grain or less bullets? Corbon makes a .38spl 125 grain load that does an honest 1100fps in a 4' barrel. My favorite hiking load in my Police positive special (83 vintage) uses a 173 grain hard cast flat point at 1050 from 4" barrel. At least it should as it does 1125fps in 6" guns. This load is a little too much for alloy snubs , although they seem to survive OK. 925fps from 2".

[surfinUSA]

I usually use 158 gr. 38+Ps rather than magnums. Lower noise, flash and recoil. The gun is easy to control and hit what you aim at.

The 9mm is also good, I use the federal 135 +P.

I look at this like Denfoote. No one shot stops in any caliber (sure they happen, but don't count on it). Keep shooting till your target is no longer a danger.

No doubt there are better rounds out the especially on paper. Someone will be happy to tell me how much better magnums are than the 38. But the +P is less likely to travel though wall and harm other family members (though it can happen). Plus the 38 +P fired in the house will not make me have to sacrafice my hearing to save my life neither will the 9mm.

I've seen what both of these rounds will do first hand. I'm satisfied that they will take care of business regardless of what the paper statistics say.

Thousands of people have been saved by both the 9mm and the 38 over the years. Maybe millions have been killed with them. Mike Irvin said it first, find the gun that you shoot best then go with it.

[ChristopherG]

Denfoote says:

"Sure, she has a pistol under her pillow!! In fact, I gave the weapon to her and insisted she keep it there. BS like gunsafes are not required here in the gun freedom state of Arizona!! Having the weapon handy in an emergency just might provide you with the needed seconds to save your life!!
Let me tell you a little bit about this G26. It has had a trigger job done on it. It has about a 3lb trigger pull!!! Do I trust my wife?? You betcha!!"

Well, I trust my wife, too, and I trust myself. And, I have a G17 with a 3.5 lb connector and polished components, and shoot it lots and lots, and like and trust it. But in my view, grabbing an unholstered Glock is like grabbing a rattlesnake; you had better grab it by the right part. Not something I'd want to do in my sleep, or just emerging out of it. So this is really one more reason, to return to the original topic/scenario, why a revolver (686, LSWCHP +Ps) is the first gun to come to hand in our bedroom (at least if the Glock is the auto of choice, which it is for me).

Here, let's see if I can turn what I'm trying to say into a controversial dogma (ahem): A revolver gives the best balance of safety, derived from the long and hard double action trigger pull, and instantaneous, no-brain functioning, and is thus the most suitable (hand)gun for defense in the range of disoriented and/or groggy situations conceivable in home defense.

There, it's not elegant, but dogma rarely is.

As for securing it: even my revolver is in a gunvault, but that's because there are children--our own and occasionally others--in the house. Were that not so, it'd be handier yet (bedside drawer, I suppose. I don't know how anyone sleeps with a gun under their pillow, anymore than I could sleep with a brick under there).

CG

[winwun]

JC-2, I don't know of but 2 9mm revolvers. One is the Ruger BH "convertible" that you must shoot .357 size bullets in to be anywhere near accurate, and the other is a little snubbie of dubious lineage. I wish someone made a 6" barrel 9 wheelgun with a barrel specific to the .355 bullet.

[WebHobbit]

About "One-Shot Stops":

Evan Marshall himself has stated many times in his books/articles that he DOES NOT recommend someone stop with one round. Common sense tactics call for you to shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. DUH.

He just limits instances of documented One Shot Stops as the only thing he records in his database since only that will actually help determine a rounds true effectiveness. It is a pretty narrowly defined type of shooting to make his database. He also only counts torso shots.

[surfinUSA]

Web hobbit,

The problem with Evan Marshall and the focus on one shot stops is that it leads the uninitiated to believe there is some magic bullet or caliber. Just get this caliber and everything will be cool (which of course it won't).

The reality is that any of the defensive rounds of 36 caliber or greater work. And none of them should be counted on for a one shot stop.

People should focus on getting a gun thats reliable, that they can hit with and practice gradually building up speed to continuous rapid on target fire.

As I said in my earlier post and as you said, common sense would dictate that you keep firing on target until that target is no longer a threat. However, you rarely read a post on those lines. You can read a hundred posts on "I carry _____ because its better than ____ and I know it will stop the BG in one shot" or something similar.

[WebHobbit]

No argument there....but there is often a VAST difference between one style/weight of hollow-point and another as far as effectiveness goes. For instance in 9 mm the 147 weight is quite the failure as compared to the much faster 115 grain. It would be ludicrus to choose a round that is fully 20% less likely to do the job (with a good torso shot) when recoil betweent the two is pretty equal. I use the stats for the purposes of choosing X weight/brand/style over Y weight/brand/style nothing more nothing less.

Interestingly in .38 the heavier 158 grain LSWCHP tends to be more effective than the lower weight bullets (until you get into the Corbon +p+ 110 which is REALLY a Magnum stuffed into a .38 case and is way over-pressure - I've seen the deformed FIRED cases!). This is in sharp contrast to the 9mm where the lower weight bullets are clearly superior. The reason? The 9mm's obvious velocity leads. The FBI load for the .38, with it's soft lead allows the .38+p's mild velocity to open it up.

[surfinUSA]

The 147 gr was tragic. We were issued that for I think two years. Thank god that one went away. But that was another one that was supposed to work based on its paper analysis. IIRC its lower velocity was supposed to control expansion for deeper pentration.

In 9mm they now issue the Federal 135 gr +P tactical. Which is supposed to be hotter than the Hydrashock and does not have the bump inside the hollow points. Results have been good and Federal tactical rounds are now issued for 40 and 45 also. The truth is that the Hydrashocks worked pretty good too when they were issued.

[WebHobbit]

I tested some 129 grain .38+p Hydrashocks from a 2inch Centennial that worked pretty good.

I fired this into a home-made water box (lined up 1 gallon bags filled with water):



http://webhobbit.net/pics/129_1cent.jpg

[jc2]

winwun -

There have been several quality dedicated 9x19 revolvers made throughout the years. S&W made the 942--a two-inch stainless steel "Centennial," and full-size K-frame (fairly hard to find). Ruger has also offered (and maybe still does) the SP-101 in 9x19 and, again comparativiely hard to find, a Security Six style full-size revolver. The SP-101 is a particularly sweet little 9mm revolver.

The Ruger Covertible is definitely not the only choice (with judicious 9x19 handloads it will make the 357 Sig look like an also-ran).

[jc2]

WebHobbit -
It would be ludicrus to choose a round that is fully 20% less likely to do the job (with a good torso shot) when recoil betweent the two is pretty equal. I use the stats for the purposes of choosing X weight/brand/style over Y weight/brand/style nothing more nothing less.
The problem use of S&M even as you describe is ludicrous. Their stats (and I use that term very loosely) do not even give you the information you evidently are attempting to derive from it--S&M's "data" is at best misleading, and more accurately totally deceptive.

An example of how S&M works:

They have 100 samples of Cartridge A. Of the 100 samples, 70 fail to meet S&M's rather nebulous "criteria." Of the remaining 30 samples 27 were unobstructed thoracic cavity hits that resulted in "one shot stops" by S&M. No other "torso" hits (S&M criteria) resulted in stops. According to S&M, Cartridge A is 90% effective.

They have 100 samples of Cartridge B. Of the 100 samples, 50 do not meet S&M "criteria." Of the remaining 50 samples, 27 were unobstructed thoracic hits and resulted in "one shot stops." In addition to the 27 unobstructed thoracic cavity hits, there were 13 other "torso" hits that also resulted in "one shot stops." According to S&M, Cartridge B is is 80% effective.

Which one, Cartridge A or Cartridge B, was really the most effective on the "street?" Cartridge A with 27 unobstructed thoracic cavity hits rated 90% by S&M; or Cartridge B with 27 unobstructed thoracic cavity hits and 13 peripheral hits resulting in a "stop") rated 80% by S&M?

Folks, that's how S&M work.

When you look at the raw data (which of course S&M won't let you see), I see that in reality on the street Cartridge A, which they rate a 90%, really worked only about 27% of the time, and Cartridge B, which they rate at 80%, really worked about 40% of the time.

Which would you rather have--the one S&M rated highest, or the one that worked the best?

[DontShootMe]

I agree with what ChristopherG said...

It's not about trusting your wife, it's about what humans do while sleeping. But then again, whatever floats your boat.

[WebHobbit]

jc2 - I think you are over-simplifying. I'd go into some detail but I don't want to totally derail this thread. Perhaps I should start a new one?


Here we go:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21184

[jc2]

No, that is exactly how their "study" works.

[4thHorseman]

One thing to consider is follow up shots. Both calibers are good for that. On the other hand I have a hard time with 357's. You can have a heck of a caliber (say a 357 cal) if you miss with the first shot the BG could possiably follow through with orginial intentions.
Is your intensions to stop a BG or to curtail a life? I think it's best to stop the agressor.
What ever is reliable and you can shot well should be what you choose.:)

[40jjb]

The 380 acp Cor Bon has a 244 Flb at 1050 FPS, the 38 spl 1050 fps with 240 flb, Not much of a difernce. Now the 9 mm at 1400 fps has a 400flb this is a big diferace. For close encounters with the BG and family members around you in the encounter, especialy children, I would use 38 spl. or 380 acp- :evil: :) - For CCW on the roud with youre family I would use the 9mm with Cor bons. Its great to have a choice of diferent tools for diferent JOBs. At the end pick the one you are more proficient shooting with.:)

[MD_Willington]

Buy both, I have 9mm autos, and I'm looking at getting a .38 snubbie..

Either way, we can all agree getting hit by either would make for one crappy day.

[possum]

i would train up with the 9mm and get lots of extra mags and some really good defense ammo and train up with it, and have the .38 as a back up.
btw i am so sorry that you live in a state that imposes those types of laws on you guys it just ain't right.

that reminds me of when my wife said she wanted me to re-enlist for Ft. Irwin i simple said HA

[10-Ring]

Lately, I've been known to keep my mod 60 next to my bed for HD...I think it depends on which one you are most proficient in using ;)

[40jjb]

Practice and be good with both, at the end it doesn't matter size, what realy matters is shot placement, @ to center mass and one to the head:evil: :) it can be a 32 acp, like it can be a 45 acp and anything in betwin. Good luck in choosing one, Let us now witch one you have settle with and how proficient you have become with it.:)

[mjrodney]

Too many decisions in life to make. Wears me out.

In my quick access, easy open and go-to safe, in a vertical pistol rack, are a 1911 in .45ACP, a SIG in .40S&W, a SIG in 9mm, a S&W 625 in .45ACP and a Ruger GP-100 in .357MAG.

All ready to go.

Just grab one.

[Skpotamus]

Ballistically speaking, 38's lose a lot of their velocity coming out of 2" barrels. The test barrels for reloading and factory ammo are usually 6".

Speer came out with their new short barreled load a few years back designed to open at lower velocities obtained from short barreled handguns. Their 135 +P 38spl is getting pushed at roughly 1050fps from a 6" barrel. They designed the round to expand at roughly 860fps. That's what your average 38spl +p ends up going when using a 2", non ported barrel.

I do carry my Taurus 85 as a pocket carry gun. I practice a LOT with it, and it goes everywhere I go. I shoot well with it. I do shoot better with my glock 19, and even better with my glock 30 and 21. I usually carry the 30 or 21, but hte 85 goes everywhere.

Don't get so hung up on ballistics, they're just numbers man. Go with the round you shoot best with and dry fire the hell out of your gun until you are ocmpletely comfortable with it.

I will tell you that the 2" 38spl is more of an "expert" gun than a semi-auto. The reason being that accuracy with the 38 spl out of that small of a gun takes a LOT of practice. Especially if you take into account your ability to cock it first will not be there in a SD situation. If you feel comfortable with 5 rounds, and can hit well with the 38, go for it. If you feel better with a 9mm and shoot well with it, go for it. If you feel better with a 45 and shoot well with it go for it.

[vynx]

Well the original poster asked about a 7 shot .38 revolver - there are some in short barrel lengths but he might be thinking of shooting +P .38s in something like a S&W 686.

Here's what I currently have on my nightstand when I am home in Kalifornia.

My Taurus 4 inch .357 loaded with Hydrashock +p .38 specials - only 6 rounds but it has very little recoil due to its size and weight. I figure at night maybe 1/2 alseep or in shock at having someone kick in my door (which I serious doubt will ever happen) I know it is reliable, low recoil, and simple - I believe in the KISS principle.

My Python and Dan Wesson and S&W's are in the safe ... because at inside my house distances the Taurus works just fine - its reliable - and if I have to use it I won't mind it being confiscated for years.

I have some 10 round .40's, berreta, glock, P7M10, etc. (Kalifornia!) and even a Para Ordinance P12 (12 round .45 acp) but currently I have been leaving the Taurus .357 out for the reasons stated. I don't want too light a trigger if I'm 1/2 asleep, I do want total reliability (the P12 magazines sometimes FTF - never had this problem w/revolver), and I don't want an "oops" I left the safety on.

Plus, my wife knows how to operate it.

If I had only one handgun for home SD (blasphemy!) then maybe I'd go with a very reliable pistol or better yet a carbine in a pistol caliber or a shotgun.

So feel fine with a 7 shot revolver - get a .357 load it with .38's and feel safe.

[orionengnr]

After an almost four year hibernation, this thread was revived on post 53.

Please note that you are posting on an ancient discussion, dead and buried years ago.

Some of the rounds spoken of in the post have been redesigned, replaced, or removed.

Some of the original posters have died of old age.

Just can't imagine why people keep digging these up. :rolleyes:

[RioShooter]

Better yet, keep shotgun where you'll be close when SHTF.

My .38 Special is always in my pocket. But, my 12 ga. pump (with 00) is kept close-by. I actually move it from room to room, depending on where I'll be spending the majority of my time.

[Shrinkmd]

If speer gold dot 124 gr in 9mm is "better" than the similar +P 38 special load, why not have 10 more ready to go? It seems like a matter of religious faith having a revolver for night stand/pillow duty, but if you have a DA/SA with a round chambered and safety off, it's the same DA pull as a revolver (just not as smooth!)

Only problem is, to dry fire you need to clear the round, and I know you aren't supposed to keep rechambering the same round more than one or two times. So if you dry fire a lot, this can start getting expensive, as opposed to dumping out your six shooter and putting them back in when you're done snap capping.

[ArchAngelCD]

May 6th, 2003, 03:08 AM #52

February 1st, 2007 01:34 PM #53

Today 10:42 PM #63

You people are kidding, right?? :uhoh:

[Jim March]

Heh.

Well since this thread started, 9mm performance hasn't changed much.

On the other hand, Speer's 135 slug used a really monster JHP cavity to good effect. And Buffalo Bore has a 158gr slug that will do 1,000fps from a snubby and more than that from a 4", putting it DEEP into 9mm and even 9+P horsepower levels.

[innerpiece]

nothing wrong with reviewing an old topic imo.. alot can change in time, hence be learned in good topics like this!

Ive had a good few 9mm's, had 2 .38'. between the two cal's Im down to 2 9's and 1 .38.

each of them, I have tried various SD loads with, on hard and soft targets, and different scenarios.. Ive retrieved many many bullets for examination of preformance..

Overall, the 9mm will preform more effectively in every situation IME.. It has more pennetration, more expansion, and more impact weight.
and in far more cases than not, the 9mm weapon platform allows for a higher capacity aswell.

The .38 is a real good contender imo tho, and does have its situation specific advantages over the 9mm ime. I dont question its ability to stop someone if applied correctly, like any load.. and Id feel a bit more comfortable with over pennetration issues inside my home.

I have some test rounds from various targets, from both the 9mm and .38spl.. Ill photo them and post pics up a bit later.. Im shure everyone will enjoy them.

ip