I saw something Alarming!


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TheBigBulgarian
May 3, 2006, 06:02 PM
Hello all,
Just wanted to share what I saw. Would Like to hear what you think as well.

Ok me and the wife went to the store and on the way back as I pull out from the store parking lot onto a major road (Frankford Ave to those familiar with the area) I notice about 25 yards ahead at the bus stop a man in uniform doing something above the trash can next to the bus stop sign. As I am making a lest turn I had to look to the right to check for cars as soon as I made the turn I focused on him and OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN. My wife screams. Well the dude was loading his revolver while waiting for the bus. He had the box of ammo sitting on top of the trash can. As I drove by he proceeded to holster his revolver and put the ammo box in his pants pocket.
The whole time he was very oblivious to his surroundings just concentrating on what he was doing.
There is a Gun Shop on the corner so I am assuming that he just got the ammo from there. Oh yeah and he wasn't a Police Officer, He was an armed security guard or an Armored Truck driver or personnel.
It was around 5:30pm so it was a lot of traffic up and down the street.
Now in PA to be an armed security you have to take 40 hour course. I think it is Act 235. Now I do not know all about it, but I am sure they teach you better than load your gun in the middle of the street as you are waiting for the bus.
Now what really disturbed me and I know it is very wrong and prejudice but again very few people aren't. This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not.
The next day I was driving home from work on another major road and who do I see same guy huffing and puffing in his uniform and a back pack on with his revolver on the hip and looked like he was talking to himself. I was a traffic light so I got a better look at him and it was even more disturbing he really looks like he has a mental problem, it could be just that it is a physical one that is making him look like a mental case, but most of us have had a mental case in your high school or college the ones that always look at the ground and mumbles. Well thats him.

This really convinced me that not all people should own firearms and especially not all people should be allowed to carry them or use them as a "work tool".

I mean come on how many times have you seen or you have loaded your revolver at the bus stop.

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PinnedAndRecessed
May 3, 2006, 07:37 PM
I just reread the original post. I will have to state that based upon the evidence.....................


...................I have no opinion!

Low-Sci
May 3, 2006, 08:10 PM
If your state allows open carry, this guy might be within his rights. There are no laws against looking like someone who's cognitively disabled while carrying a firearm. And technically, if he hasn't been adjudicated mentally defective, then he could still legally buy a gun. Some people have bad social skills and talk to themselves, but they are still smart guys. I've known people who talk to themselves, met them in high school, and the ones I've known are whiz kids.

All things considered, I would call the cops, even though this might just be a guy with social skills problems. Its too wierd to risk.

BozemanMT
May 3, 2006, 08:15 PM
If i had to ride the socialized welfare wagon, I'd load up too.:neener:

WeedWhacker
May 3, 2006, 08:28 PM
Was he doing anything illegal with the revolver? Was he breaking any laws (open carry illegal or not?)? If so, then call the police.

If not, don't worry about it. A gun is a powerful tool, but merely a tool. If someone is not breaking a law, don't start screaming.

mkh100
May 3, 2006, 08:29 PM
This is not an RKBA issue at all. Does not matter if he had the gun for a legitamate purpose or not. If you see something out of the ordinary that is potentially dangerous you should call the Police. And the time to call was THEN, when you where witnessing the problem. You let it go untill the next day ! ! ! Even if this guy where a uniformed police officer or deputy he had no business playing around with his gun out on the street. You should have followed your instincts and reported it THEN. Im sure the cops in your city would much prefer responding to a "man with a gun" call than a "man shooting people on the bus" call.

By the way not Flaming you....its a live and learn kinda thing. Who knows had circumstances been different you might have prevented a mass shooting.....and those really hurt the cause of gun rights.

Mike

spacemanspiff
May 3, 2006, 08:30 PM
did you check his ear? maybe he had a bluetooth cell phone and was talking on the phone?

geekWithA.45
May 3, 2006, 08:37 PM
FYI, open carry on foot (not in your automobile) is lawful in PA, except in PHL.

It is also lawful in PHL, _IF_ you have an LTCF.

Loading your gun on the street? Err......not unlawful, but not exactly a great idea either.:scrutiny:

loumarch
May 3, 2006, 10:21 PM
You should stop and congratulate him for having the sense to carry on Frankford Ave!!!

afasano
May 3, 2006, 10:55 PM
He was probably on a cell phone, those people look a little nuts at first. :D

alcmaeon
May 4, 2006, 12:26 AM
Might have been using Blue Tooth or even a wired ear piece/mic to talk on the phone. It is easy to miss the ear piece if you are not close and people do look like they are conversing with themselves when they use them.

Bigreno
May 4, 2006, 12:38 AM
If the guys is licensed by the state as armed security he is probably not 10-96. If he is licensed then what he did was stupid but not necessarily cause to contact the police. I would however urge you to contact what ever security company he works for and voice your concerns there. I am certain they have SOP concerning public conduct and unholstering his weapon while in uniform.

MechAg94
May 4, 2006, 02:05 AM
You are overreacting, IMHO.

mnrivrat
May 4, 2006, 02:22 AM
You are overreacting, IMHO.

+ 1 Sorry, but I think your making too much out of seeing a gun being loaded and letting the imagination run a little amuck when it comes to "looks like a nut" If some of you who carry concealed happen to print , I doubt wether you would feel someone should "call the cops" as the best response.

I thought it was mostly people who were afraid of guns that would have this type re-action .

Just My Opinion.

Low-Sci
May 4, 2006, 02:36 AM
I think calling the police wouldn't be a bad reaction at all. If you see suspicious activity, report it. That much can't hurt anyone, whereas ignoring it may well hurt someone down the road.

Around this forum, paranoia is often regarded as a good thing. It means you're keeping your head up and your eyes open. So there seems, at least to me, to be an inconsistency in the idea that being paranoid about this situation is an overreaction.

You might someday be mugged. Probably never, but maybe. So you carry a gun.

This guy might be up to some trouble. Probably not, but maybe. So you call the cops.

Zen21Tao
May 4, 2006, 02:58 AM
You are overreacting, IMHO.
+1. My spidey senses scream out "troll alert." Seeing a uniformed (police or security) officer loading a duty revolver doesn't seem so outrageous to me. Plus, you said "he was very oblivious to his surroundings just concentrating on what he was doing." Hummm.... would you rather he not pay attention to what he was doing while loading a gun? Attentiveness to what he was doing hardly tells you whether or not he looked around and gauged his surroundings before drawing his weapon to load it. It seems to me you saw something you didn't like so any judgement of the person was tainted by this already.

mkh100
May 4, 2006, 03:27 AM
You know its really not the gun that troubles me. I dont have a fear of inanamate objects. The original poster said his wife screamed "oh my god he has a gun" then started listing reasons why the guy made him feel uncomfortable....suspicious. Nobody is saying the suspect should be shot down for loading his gun at rush hour at the bus stop on the side of the street.....only that if suspicions where aroused that the appropriate authority should probably have been called.

years ago I worked tech sevrices for the local PD we had a girl coming out of a rerstaurant at about 3:00 in the morning downtown. she gets followed by this guy she thinks is drunk that turns up out of an alley. She rushes to her car, makes it and locks the doors as the guy comes up and starts tapping on the window. she locks the doors hauls a#$ and though shaken heads for home. she chooses not to report it cause he was "probably just drunk" and besides "I had a little weed in my car"

well while she is convincing herself that she does'nt need to call the cops the bad guy whom she later ID's in a lineup comes out of the same hiding spot rapes sodomizes and murders the next victim.

now seeing some doofus loading his gun may not be the same thing as having him follow you and tap on your window but its still suspicious and warrants attention.

Use your head.....but don't hesitate to make a choice that could cost someone their life.....do you guys really not get this ???

LAK
May 4, 2006, 06:58 AM
About how old did this guy appear to be?

-----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

sterling180
May 4, 2006, 07:15 AM
I met a guy who went to a high-school-called Cleeve Park- which was half a mile away from my former high-school,-which is called Hurstmere-who told me that when he and his classmates were leaving school-at the end of the day-,to go home,they saw a Pikey/traveller eject the two 12-guage cartridges from his double-barrelled shotgun and this guy began to produce cleaning fluids and cloths-to clean his shotgun with-in full-view of school kids and parents;relatives,who had parked outside the School to collect their kids.:) :)

Now this caused quite a few peple to become upset and emotionally unbalanced,at the sight of this pikey,cleaning his shotgun,so SO19(London Metropolitan Police forces Swat teams) were called to arrest this guy.Soon the sirens were wailing in the distance and they gradually got louder and louder as the cops got nearer and nearer-and soon a car and a van turned up and several MP5 and Glock17-toting cops showed up to arrest this guy.

This pikey was still cleaning his gun as the barrells of the MP5's and Glocks were pointed at his face and a shrill voice, from the Inspector told him:"Armed police,drop your weapon and lie face down, or we will open fire on you!.The man still didn't take heed of the Inspectors request,but the Inspector replied rather furiously:"DO IT NOW,DO IT NOW!!!!.So the pikey complied and lay face down ready for the cops to cuff him and for the cops to read him his rights. As he was being lead away and the shotgun-Sawed-off actually-was being bagged-up, he asked them:"I was only cleaning up my shooter and can I get it back after you've finished.":) :) :D

American_Pit_Bull
May 4, 2006, 08:53 AM
The guys that thought the poster should call the authorities kind of surprised me... The rational for calling the LEOs was "reporting a suspicious activity." The suspicious activity was a gun in public. Reminds me of this thread. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=197340)

If more people saw firearms in public on a normal basis, then more people wouldn't scream out "Oh my GOD! He has a gun!" at the sight of one.:confused:

rbernie
May 4, 2006, 10:09 AM
If more people saw firearms in public on a normal basis, then more people wouldn't scream out "Oh my GOD! He has a gun!" at the sight of one.+1.

I think calling the police wouldn't be a bad reaction at all. If you see suspicious activity, report it. That much can't hurt anyone, whereas ignoring it may well hurt someone down the road.And this gets us right back to the age-old argument over how much intrusion are you willing to accept in return for a premise of safety? What if you're the guy getting rousted? What if the act of being rousted makes you late to work at your new job and you get fired? What if you have this new job because your life just went into the crapper for any number of reasons and you had to move in with a buddy in a different town? Now you've just been added to the rolls of the unemployed in a new town and have no viable means of supporting your broken life, and for what? So some other guy belted safely into his car and driving by could assuage his ego that he did something 'for the public good', without having stuck his neck out to get personally involved? Spare me.

The road to h-e-doublehockeysticks is paved with 'it's for the children' and, 'if we can save only one life, it'll have been worth it'. That's the mindset that we fight against ever day. Why do we tolerate it under different circumstances?

For shame.

This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not. If you see a situation that makes you uncomfortable, then by all means scope it out. If you feel like things might not quite be kosher, then take reasonable action to confirm or deny your suspicions. But don't do this chickensheet, 'I'll keep driving but I'll call the cops', routine. If you care enough to care, then care enough to get involved. if you're not willing to put some skin in the game (intelligently and with prudence) then by all means SHUT UP AND KEEP MOVING.

This really convinced me that not all people should own firearms and especially not all people should be allowed to carry them or use them as a "work tool".This really convinced me that you're a troll.

TheBigBulgarian
May 4, 2006, 10:24 AM
The guy did not have a bluetoth device in his ear I checked. I was stopped at a light so I got a better view of him the second time.
My wife was an anti but I am slowly converting her. But again years of her mom filling her head with anti gun bs doesnt go away so fast. The first time I took her to the range she shot for an hour and a halfI had to drag her out.

Now to me calling the cops would have been over reacting. What alarmed me was that he was loading it in public thats all. In firearms courses, classes, LE training, on all forums and here everyone preaches RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.
Well loading the gun in public = not very responsible. at least to me.
And again this guy is supposed to protect people and he is walking around with an empty revolver!

American_Pit_Bull
May 4, 2006, 10:45 AM
Now to me calling the cops would have been over reacting. What alarmed me was that he was loading it in public thats all. In firearms courses, classes, LE training, on all forums and here everyone preaches RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.
Well loading the gun in public = not very responsible. at least to me.
And again this guy is supposed to protect people and he is walking around with an empty revolver!I do not mean to start a "what if" scenario thread, but you do not know why he was loading his sidearm in public. It could have been the responsible thing to do.:) Maybe he just came from a location in which he had to check his gun to a guard and he didn't think that it was responsible to hand someone his loaded firearm. I do not know and neither did you. Maybe he was doing the responsible thing by loading it there.

Him loading his revolver is no different than when I remove my CCW from the GunVault in my vehicle and inserting the mag before I holster it. If someone should happen to see me I hope they do not call the authorities.

The way I see it, the guy wasn't committing a crime. The only "offense" that he committed was being seen in public with a firearm and it is a shame that in today's society that some see this as a cause for concern.

just my .02

TarpleyG
May 4, 2006, 10:51 AM
Anyone else notice what side of the issue people tend to fall based on their post count? Food for thought.

Greg

American_Pit_Bull
May 4, 2006, 11:42 AM
Anyone else notice what side of the issue people tend to fall based on their post count? Food for thought.I do not see the correlation.

You have members with as many as 850 posts advocating the same thing as members with 9 posts.
You also have members with 2500 posts agreeing with members with only 24.

Or are you trying to say that the dude loading his wheelgun in public should post more?:neener:

geekWithA.45
May 4, 2006, 12:03 PM
Considering the original hypothesis, that he had just bought the ammo from the nearby gunstore, (and possibly the gun???), and was on his way to work as an armed guard, the guy has 3 choices:

A)Travel to work with an empty gun.
B) Load up in the gunstore
C) Load up in the street.


None of these choices are great.

A) Bad Idea. Being openly armed makes one a target. It pretty much sucks to be a target because you have a gun, but be unable to do anything about it because its empty.

B) Bad Idea. Loading up in the gunstore gets the proprietor and employees really, really upset. They've all seen Terminator, they all have guns, and they tend to point them at people who start loading in the sales area.

C) Bad Idea. It alarms the public, indiscretion with arms isn't kosher, and it invites intervention. Flipside, he's wearing a uniform, which would generally buy him at least the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of cops or passers by. Probably, the least sucky of the three alternatives.


What was this man's _real_ mistake?

NOT HAVING ENOUGH AMMO AT HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THAT is what placed him into his untenable position.

Phantom Warrior
May 4, 2006, 12:36 PM
I mean come on how many times have you seen or you have loaded your revolver at the bus stop.


Not at the bus stop. I used to load up my Glock all the time while I was pumping gas in East Grand Forks. Open carry is legal in Minnesota. *shrug*




What was this man's _real_ mistake?

NOT HAVING ENOUGH AMMO AT HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE.


My story leads me to my next point. I used to go to school in Grand Forks, ND. I wasn't licensed to carry in North Dakota, but I was licensed to carry in my home state of Minnesota. So, as soon as I crossed the state line I'd start loading mags. Like I mentioned above, sometimes this meant loading mags while I was sitting at the Conoco gasing up for the trip.

Probably not this guy's situation, but it isn't always lack of planning.

ARperson
May 4, 2006, 02:03 PM
My first reaction was to the statement "my wife screamed."

Why?

Why do women have to scream like lunatics?

Why couldn't she have helped by taking the time to become a good witness in case details were needed at a later time. Or at least watch the thread starter's six while he is driving.

Anything but the scream. :banghead:

History Prof
May 4, 2006, 03:02 PM
This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not. . . . so I got a better look at him and it was even more disturbing he really looks like he has a mental problem, it could be just that it is a physical one that is making him look like a mental case, but most of us have had a mental case in your high school or college the ones that always look at the ground and mumbles. Well thats him.

I've had plenty of people like this in my classes. Some were truly NUTS, and some were outstanding students, but with, perhaps, a touch of a learning disability, or simply a physical "abnormality." Those who were outstanding, I'd trust with firearms. BTW, I've had some totally normal looking people who were also NUTS, whom I'd never trust with firearms. You never can tell. As for the behavior? I've noticed that people with physical "abnormalities" tend to become anti-social. Who wouldn't? Even if you have Einstein's brain, how do you think someone who *looks* as you described must have been treated growing up? Think about how that would have shaped his personality. Personally, I'd attribute loading a firearm in public as anti-social and poor judgement. Sort of an "I'm ok doing this, I'm in uniform, the heck with what anyone thinks" kind of thought process.

NineseveN
May 4, 2006, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by TheBigBulgarian
This guy at first look appears to be a little mentally challenged. And I know I haven't talked to the guy so I don't know if he is or not. . . . so I got a better look at him and it was even more disturbing he really looks like he has a mental problem, it could be just that it is a physical one that is making him look like a mental case, but most of us have had a mental case in your high school or college the ones that always look at the ground and mumbles. Well thats him.

What are you, Ms. Cleo's Brother? How in the world would you diagnose a mental disability from inside your car or across the street? Did you ever stop to think of the myriad of possibilities for such behavior that do not include someone being crazy or retarded? Unless you're a mental health professional, I don't think you can make that diagnosis.

BTW, if I were to go on your words alone (structure, phrases, tone, flow, word choice, grammar) I'd guess you were a 15-year old kid with too much free time and a bit of 'retard' in ya. Of course, that's most likely not the case, it's more likely that you don't present yourself very well in written form and your arguments are not well thought out or substantiated (hence the goofy logic paths and erratic spurts of excitement that you take in your posts).

Sure, someone acting suspicious with a firearm in public alarms me, but so does the appearance of gun owners that feel it is within their right to decide who should and should not have guns based on prejudice and street-corner medical examinations from afar.

I think you were right to be cautious, but you did overreact, so did your wife.

Zen21Tao
May 4, 2006, 04:00 PM
Hello, this wasn't a long haired unshaved badly dressed guy swaggering back a forth with a gun. This was a uniformed individual loading his duty weapon on a bench outside of a gunstore.

Well loading the gun in public = not very responsible. at least to me.
And again this guy is supposed to protect people and he is walking around with an empty revolver!

I live in an apartment building with walls thin enough that if I have an AD/ND that the round would go right through the wall into the other apartment. Is it irresponsible for me to load my gun in private? In fact, a few months ago a UF Football player had a ND that enter his neighbors apartment, luckily no one was hurt. While loading a gun in private may seem better since "out of sight out of mind" it is where the barrel of the gun is pointed that is more important. I would much rather a guy be at a bus stop safely pointing his barrel down at the ground than be in his house with the barrel pointing out his window towards a neighbors house. With that said, I agree with geekWithA.45 that this guy sounds like he didn't have a better alternative to loading his duty weapon were he was at if he didn't have the ammo he wanted/needed at home. If the gun was pointed in a safe direction I see nothing wrong.

Covey Rise
May 4, 2006, 06:04 PM
A guy loading his gun on the street in the open is legal in most non-libtard states unless the local city has a law, but since he is a security gaurd?

What's scarier to me his your wife screaming and temporarily averting attention from the road while driving your 5000 lb SUV that has a much better potential of killing people.

I guess its trivial.

Correia
May 4, 2006, 06:35 PM
This is one of those situations where you should probably just use your brain and common sense.

For those posters who think that if you see a gun, or anything suspicious, you should sick the cops on them, use your brain. Is this a person actually a threat, or do they just have a gun? Gun doesn't equal threat. But if the person is armed, and his behaviour is sending up warning flags, call help.

For those posters who think that involving the police in anything is a jack booted violation of constitutional rights, chill out. Use your brain. Just because he has a gun doesn't make him one of us. Doesn't make him a good guy, and doesn't make him your friend.

Every situation is different. Hard and fast denoucements one way or the other are going to be right sometimes, and wrong others.

In the meantime, quit harping on each other. Jeez. This is THR, the low road.

redneckrepairs
May 4, 2006, 06:54 PM
Read the first post and again thanked my lucky stars that i live out in the " wild west" where neither handguns nor loading of same is really something to comment on lol

Low-Sci
May 4, 2006, 07:17 PM
So there are literally hundreds of possibilities involved in this situation. No one action will be perfect for all of those possibilities.

Politicians like to act self-important. They pose, they cheat, they sling insults at their opponents, they attack the characters of other men.

We are not politicians, so let's not behave as if we are. We are reasonable people trying to figure out the best course of action, given a certain situation. So lets put some honest thought to this and figure out what perhaps should be done in the future. Our conclusion won't be perfect, but it will be a damn sight better than just winging it. So much of owning a firearm to begin with is about planning for a situation, so lets plan for this one.

Bottom line is, you have a man in some sort of uniform, probably private security, loading a weapon in a place that is unusual, and storing said weapon on his person in full view. This person appears, at a glance, to have a mental disability, but that may not be the case. None of this is illegal, but it does seem strange.

Since no laws are being broken, lets say the police don't need to be involved. We'll err on the side of liberty for the sake of arguement.

However, this person seems to be using very poor judgement, as while it is legal to load and carry a firearm in public, it is socially alarming and would cause reasonable but uneducated people to become wary or even scared.

So I think the least measure is some education for this person in uniform is warrranted. Let him know that you know he is within his rights, but by loading his weapon in public, he is causing some degree of public distress that doesn't need to occur. Tell him, politely, to load his weapon elsewhere and this distress will not occur in the future.

What other reasonable measures might be taken?

NineseveN
May 4, 2006, 08:00 PM
What other reasonable measures might be taken?

Ooh! Ooooh! I know, I know! How about, minding our own damn business? :D

redneckrepairs
May 4, 2006, 08:11 PM
I know nothing about the area , other than i dont tresspass east of the iron river lightly , i dont live there nor do i want to , so the local mores are a quandry to me , i can understand brandishing the fact that " I got a gun " if not agree with it from what has been posted here tho , damm folks get a grip the guy did nothing illegal from what i have seen , maby strange but then i have known folks who wont allow smoking or drinking in thier cars , and i find this strange also howeaver none of what i have seen rises to the level of gvt. intervention imho

vynx
May 4, 2006, 08:15 PM
I wouldn't call the police but the post does make me think about something else.

Anyone can get a security guard uniform. Why do so many posters imply that if you have a uniform on you must be legit?

Just because someone knocks on my door and is wearing a uniform doesn't mean squat to me. I want to see ID and some kind of official looking vehicle to back that uniform up.

I can easily imagine someone who is deluded playing "dress up" and "pretending" to be a security guard or police officer. Heck, in California we have some people who donated money to a local sheriff and got look alike badges who got into trouble trying to use them improperly.

I still wouldn't call the cops though - innocent till proven guilty is my motto - maybe I would strike upa conversation.

Zen21Tao
May 4, 2006, 09:22 PM
Anyone can get a security guard uniform. Why do so many posters imply that if you have a uniform on you must be legit?

Huumm.... perhaps simple statistical base rates? There are far more legitimate security guards wearing security uniforms in the total population than people illegitimately posing as security guards. It isn't a guarantee he was a legitimate guard just an extremely high probability.

I can easily imagine someone who is deluded playing "dress up" and "pretending" to be a security guard or police officer. Heck, in California we have some people who donated money to a local sheriff and got look alike badges who got into trouble trying to use them improperly.


Basing judgements on "ease of imagination" is an example of using the Availability Heuristic. The problem with such a heuristic is that more often than not it leads someone to disregard base rate information and arrive at innacurate and incorrect judgements.

MechAg94
May 4, 2006, 10:29 PM
Next time I go to a gun show, I better make sure my cell phone is fully charged. It is gonna get a lot of use what with all the shady characters carrying firearms. :D


I see a lot of weird looking people at gun shows. Hell, they probably think I look like a goofy idiot. It doesn't mean they are crooks.

asknight
May 4, 2006, 10:50 PM
As I am making a lest turn I had to look to the right to check for cars as soon as I made the turn I focused on him and OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN. My wife screams.

Ya know, that part really, really tainted your entire post. It leads me to believe that you're certainly in the wrong state of mind in regards to firearms. It's ok for you to have a gun, but not for anyone else?

With all the millions of guns in the US, if you're going to freak out like that every time you see one, I forsee a short lifespan for both you and your wife due to stroke or heart attack.

rbernie
May 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
I still wouldn't call the cops though - innocent till proven guilty is my motto - maybe I would strike upa conversation.Bingo! :)

Tell him, politely, to load his weapon elsewhere and this distress will not occur in the future.Another winner.... :)

High Planes Drifter
May 5, 2006, 09:51 AM
Talking to yourself doesnt necessarily mean that you are a nutcase. Arguing with youself would, but not simply talking to youself; if you get along with yourself I think its fine. ;) He might chat with himself about guns, did you even bother to roll down your window and listen in?

History Prof
May 5, 2006, 12:46 PM
Talking to yourself doesnt necessarily mean that you are a nutcase. Arguing with youself would, but not simply talking to youself; if you get along with yourself I think its fine. He might chat with himself about guns, did you even bother to roll down your window and listen in?

That reminds me of another point. When I was writing my dissertation, I began to put on a lot of extra weight. So I began jogging. I found that it cleared my head, and I was able to "write" while I was jogging, but coudn't remember what I had "written" when I got home. So I wired a voice activated microcassette to a lapel mic and "wrote" as I jogged. I musta looked totally insane and "retarted" to other people as I jogged past them on the streets, but I didn't care. And now, I gots me a PhD. Sometimes you do what you gotta....

lbmii
May 5, 2006, 01:59 PM
Ok everybody; a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equals a call to the police.

Low-Sci
May 5, 2006, 02:49 PM
Why must a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equal a call to the police?

If there's nothing illegal about his behavior, the Jack-Booted Poes don't need to stick their noses in it and neither does anyone else. In fact, it would be a violation of his second amendment rights for you to call the police on him, which puts the jackboots squarely on your own feet for wanting to infringe on RKBA just because it makes you nervous.

PinnedAndRecessed
May 5, 2006, 02:55 PM
Ok, so to play devil's advocate...

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Why must a guy loading a gun at a bus stop equal a call to the police?

If there's nothing illegal about his behavior, the Jack-Booted Poes don't need to stick their noses in it and neither does anyone else. In fact, it would be a violation of his second amendment rights for you to call the police on him, which puts the jackboots squarely on your own feet for wanting to infringe on RKBA just because it makes you nervous.


Ok, so let's really play devil's advocate. The guy was wearing a phoney guard uniform that he stole. He's as mad a March hare. Next week he hits the news for having seriously wounded some people. In retrospect, what would you wish had been done?

BTW, LEOs are not Jack-Booted. And I resent the implication. And if you weren't implying such, exactly to whom were you referring?

Correia
May 5, 2006, 02:59 PM
Or Low-Sci, you could just your common sense, and decide if the person is a threat or not. That is why all of us CCW people are supposed to be in condition yellow.

Just because somebody has a gun does not make him one of us, and doesn't make him a good guy. Calling the police on somebody acting in a suspicious manner is not a violation of his 2nd Amendment rights.

I'm not saying the initial poster was right by any means, but read what I posted earlier. Too many people here want to live in a black and white world, and it doesn't work that way.

Is it so damn hard for us gun people to use our fricking brains and decide how to act in each situation, based on that situation, rather than screaming jack booted thuggery at every turn?

ajax
May 5, 2006, 02:59 PM
I really have no input on the thread in general. What I would like to say has more to do with verbal attacks some THR members seem all to ready to launch in threads like this one. This is the second thread i've read lately where someone has seen something their not sure about and have come here to discuss. Then certian members with the say nothing mentallity attack because they act as if to discuss the situation is wrong because you should have no problem what so ever with what was seen. You guys know who you are so no names need mentioned but you should try showing some respect for fellow THR members. If you don't like whats being said try being polite or maybe say nothing at all if your not capable of that.

Low-Sci
May 5, 2006, 03:10 PM
Correia: I know you have to decide whether he's a threat or not, and that most likely he isnt. I wasn't implying a black and white world as what I actually think, I was only phrasing a hypothetical. I don't actually believe what I said, I said it hoping that it would provoke some thought.

PinnedandRecessed: Like I said, I don't actually believe what I'm saying if I tell you that I'm playing devil's advocate beforehand. I wasn't referring to "exactly" anyone, and there was no real offense intended. "Jack-booted" is a phrase I used in character, so please understand that I don't actually mean it. Like I said before, I made that post hoping it would provoke some thought, and it did.

Zen21Tao
May 5, 2006, 03:24 PM
I really have no input on the thread in general. What I would like to say has more to do with verbal attacks some THR members seem all to ready to launch in threads like this one. This is the second thread i've read lately where someone has seen something their not sure about and have come here to discuss. Then certian members with the say nothing mentallity attack because they act as if to discuss the situation is wrong because you should have no problem what so ever with what was seen. You guys know who you are so no names need mentioned but you should try showing some respect for fellow THR members. If you don't like whats being said try being polite or maybe say nothing at all if your not capable of that.

Please point to a single personal attack being made or is disagreement with your opinion itself the attack? Your post reads very much like an Ad Hominem attack. Rather than trying to prove the premises of your own argument or disprove the premises of others arguments you are trying to discredit the people making their argument by point a finger accusing them of personal attacks. All I have seen here, from both sides of the argument, are personal opinions of what each person thinks would be the best response to this situation.

ajax
May 5, 2006, 03:32 PM
rbernie calls the thread starter a troll because he doesn't like the thread starters thoughts on the situation. NineseveN says the thread starter sound like a 15 year with to much time on his hands with a bit of retard in ya. Is that good enough for you Zen21.

SSN Vet
May 5, 2006, 03:49 PM
We'll err on the side of liberty for the sake of arguement.


Now that's a novel concept;)

SSN Vet
May 5, 2006, 03:52 PM
what exactly is a troll anyway?

little green guy who lives under a bridge?

Kurush
May 5, 2006, 04:53 PM
what exactly is a troll anyway?

little green guy who lives under a bridge?
The M-16 is an inferior gun because the receiver is made out of plastic, and its short stroke gas piston is far inferior to the sophisticated roller delayed blowback system used in the battle-tested M-14. The M-16 was not even designed for combat, but for animal control! If you don't believe it, let's review the history of this weapon.

The AR10 was originally designed by Colt for sale to animal control departments because it was determined that the 5.56x46 round it was designed to shoot was excellent for taking out poodles. Later the design was renamed the AR15 (short for Animal Rifle 15) and sold to Mattel, who once against renamed it, this time to M-16 (for Mattel). The Ordnance department, run by Robert McNamara, purchased this rifle for limited use in Vietnam because of reports that the fanatical Moro warriors were using vietnamese killer poodles against American troops. Due to a miscommunication, the M-16 was issued to troops in areas not affected by Moro activity. McNamara decided to cover up his mistake and told the Secretary of Defense that the M-16 was to replace the M-14. The rest is history.

Regards, A. Troll

Zen21Tao
May 5, 2006, 05:17 PM
rbernie calls the thread starter a troll because he doesn't like the thread starters thoughts on the situation. NineseveN says the thread starter sound like a 15 year with to much time on his hands with a bit of retard in ya. Is that good enough for you Zen21.


Actually that was I that made the reference to “troll.” In fact my exact words were “My spidey senses scream out ‘troll alert.’” This wasn’t calling the topic started a troll it was saying that this post sounds like something a troll would post, especially when the poster has a post count under 100. Many Trolls on THR build their post count a bit then post their Troll bait.

As for NineSeven’s post, did you bother to read the whole thing? He says that the poster's sentence structure, grammar, phrases, tone, etc. looks like that of a 15 year old that is a bit retarded and then he continues to say that he doesn’t think that is the case. This wasn’t a personal attack as NineSeven’s point was saying that the English quality of the post wasn’t sufficient support alone for the posters opinion. I would add that my own sentence structure, grammar, and spelling most often fit that same profile.

middy
May 5, 2006, 05:47 PM
I don't think that what you saw, merely driving by, would warrant a call to the police. You can't judge someone's mental condition by their facial features... some people are just ugly. :D :uhoh:

History Prof
May 5, 2006, 06:11 PM
The AR10 was originally designed by Colt for sale to animal control departments because it was determined that the 5.56x46 round it was designed to shoot was excellent for taking out poodles. Later the design was renamed the AR15 (short for Animal Rifle 15) and sold to Mattel, who once against renamed it, this time to M-16 (for Mattel). The Ordnance department, run by Robert McNamara, purchased this rifle for limited use in Vietnam because of reports that the fanatical Moro warriors were using vietnamese killer poodles against American troops. Due to a miscommunication, the M-16 was issued to troops in areas not affected by Moro activity. McNamara decided to cover up his mistake and told the Secretary of Defense that the M-16 was to replace the M-14. The rest is history.

It must be true - I read it on the internet!

Now I know where my students get such *interesting* material for their papers! (The internet in general, that is):banghead:

rbernie
May 5, 2006, 09:55 PM
Yes, I called the original poster a troll. I've made few such comments here in my tenure, but this thread and this poster deserved it. Just to retrace things, the context is as follows: This really convinced me that not all people should own firearms and especially not all people should be allowed to carry them or use them as a "work tool".
This really convinced me that you're a troll.I'm sorry, but there is no doubt in my mind that the poster's statement was a deliberate and obvious troll. The statement was not germane to the stated purpose of the thread and it expressed an inflammatory judgement where none was needed. That's trolling, by any definition. As far as I'm concerned, I did not engage in an ad hominen attack - I made a simple statement of fact. <shrug> I can live with myself for that.

If I had wanted to engage in an ad hominem attack, I probably would have started by addressing the, ah, adolescent manner in which the individual was characterized as mentally unfit or damaged in some way based upon how the individual presented himself. Restraint is not my strongest skill, but I *do* have some.
Is it so damn hard for us gun people to use our fricking brains and decide how to act in each situation, based on that situation, rather than screaming jack booted thuggery at every turn?I've seen a little of that here, but not much. I hope that my comments were not construed as such.

All I've been trying to say is this thread is that passing judgement on people based upon a drive-by experience is just plain wrong. If you want to pass judgement on someone, then put some skin in the game. If, at that point, you think that this guys a whack-job, then you call the police. If, on the other hand, you find out that he's really just a normal joe with poor presentation skills, then think of how much trouble you may just have saved him by talking to him face2face.

ajax
May 6, 2006, 09:23 AM
Zen21 I read the post and you can minimize the statement till your hearts content. Did you read the statement? :confused: Sorry for hijacking the thread folks.

dakotasin
May 6, 2006, 11:00 AM
OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN. My wife screams.


get over it. grow up.

and, for your and your wife's longevity, stay out of places like s.d.:
where kids (yep, kids ~10 years old) walk freely around town w/ guns.
where some people get out of their car to re-holster, and don't hide the fact.
where open carry is common.
where guns are not cased, not hidden, and openly marched out to where the truck is parked.
where guns stay in vehicles, in plain sight.


nineseven has it right:

Ooh! Ooooh! I know, I know! How about, minding our own damn business?

NineseveN
May 6, 2006, 01:09 PM
nineseven has it right:

Heh, well damn, there's a first time for everything it seems. :)

MechAg94
May 6, 2006, 01:15 PM
This is a discussion forum. If you post your opinions on here, they will get challenged whether you are right or wrong. Just because someone says your opinion is ignorant, it does NOT make it a personal attack. You just need to grow thicker skin. :)

If you don't like your opinions being challenged, you just have a word processor open in the back ground and post your comments there. :D

The original poster did not just ask a question, he was making judgements about the situation and the other person involved. Some would not be considered nice at all if he had said them to the guys' face. Posters have questioned his reactions and judgements on this thread, some more colorful than others. I don't have a problem with that. This is a discussion forum. No one ever said we would all like each other.

At least we all filter our thoughts by having to type in our comments. Otherwise, it would get real interesting. :D

CannonFodder
May 6, 2006, 07:06 PM
As a resident of Philadelphia, and as someone who has been in that very same location, I have to say that the dude loading his gun was an idiot.

I mean, c'mon, do you really want to be at Frankford with only 6 bullets in your gun, and no speedloader? Hell, just thinking about the place makes me want to stuff an extra magazine in my pocket.

I declare the subject of the OP to be INSUFFICIENTLY ARMED. He may make ammends by buying a pistol with greater ammo capacity. :D

Zen21Tao
May 6, 2006, 08:34 PM
I declare the subject of the OP to be INSUFFICIENTLY ARMED. He may make ammends by buying a pistol with greater ammo capacity

May not be the guys fault he is "insufficently armed" if the state of Pennsylvania regulates the type and caliber of firearm that private security officers can use. Here in Florida Security Officers are limited to either a 4" .38 Special Revolver or a 4" .357 Magnum Revolver both limited to being loaded with only .38special ammo.

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