So you would know........PAY PAL


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LAH
May 4, 2006, 10:47 PM
Guess a lot of you guys know me but for those who don't, I'm Lynn Halstead. I operated the casting company "Dry Creek Bullet Works, Inc". We had customers who didn't want to use pay pal claiming they were anti gun. Finally I learned first hand the customer is always right. My account was froze and I was allowed only to withdraw my funds. I could pay no one or accept payment from anyone. Why????????? I sold bullets. I know they sell them on EBAY. Because of a discussion that came up today I contacted pay pal. Below is the results...just so you would know............Creeker

Here's my question to pay pal:

Form Message
customer subject: I own a lead bullet company, can I collect payments
for bullets through Pay Pal?

Here's their answer:

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Hello! How are you doing today? My name is Katrina and I will be the one to
assist you with your concern. I understand that you wanted information
whether you could use PayPal to accept payments for your business. Let me
look into the information I could provide for you.

In accordance to our User Agreement under the Acceptable Use Policy,
unfortunately, PayPal may not be used for accepting payment for selling
ammunition. Here is a part of the policy as listed in our User Agreement:

AMMUNITION
You may not use PayPal to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which
hold more than 10 rounds), ammunition with propellant (e.g., gunpowder), or
blank ammunition. The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any
firearm.

To review the PayPal User Agreement, click
http://www.paypal.com/useragreement or copy the entire link into the
address bar.

The PayPal User Agreement can also be found by visiting our website and
clicking on the 'User Agreement' link at the bottom of any PayPal page.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,
Maria Katrina
PayPal Community Support
PayPal, an eBay Company

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Chipperman
May 4, 2006, 10:52 PM
Sorry you found out the hard way. I hope you can make speedy arrangements with your customers. :(

kentucky_smith
May 4, 2006, 10:58 PM
This is why there is gearpay.com.

Daniel T
May 4, 2006, 11:21 PM
Er, if you were only selling bullets, you were not violating PayPal policy.

You may not use PayPal to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which
hold more than 10 rounds), ammunition with propellant (e.g., gunpowder), or
blank ammunition.

A bullet is not a "high-capacity magazine", isn't a blank, and doesn't have any propellant.

Dragun
May 4, 2006, 11:24 PM
yea except for this part

AMMUNITION
You may not use PayPal to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which
hold more than 10 rounds), ammunition with propellant (e.g., gunpowder), or
blank ammunition. The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any
firearm.

Daniel T
May 4, 2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah, that defines the term ammunition as it relates to "amunition with propellant" and "blank ammunition". If they meant for it to include just a bullet, why wouldn't they just have stated "ammunition" instead of specifiying it "with propellant"?

telomerase
May 4, 2006, 11:39 PM
Wow, a self-boycotting business. Well, if they don't want your money, don't force it on them...

omnivore75
May 4, 2006, 11:47 PM
Pay Pal is one of the most crooked, politically motivated, poorly run bunch of monkey boys that ever ran a business and thats saying a lot. Go to pay pal sucks dot com to see all the horror stories from business and consumer alike. They are so anti gun it is not even funny. They stopped all firearms related transfers and have stolen more money by freezing accounts for whatever insane reason, not just guns, than you would believe. I just bought three new 20 round mini 14 factory mags from Joe at Joes Pawn Shop through Gun Broker dot com and he told me via email that Pay Pal froze his account with $3000 of his hard earned dough in it because he was selling evil demonic firearms accessories that come to life and just go on killing spree's every day of the week. What an evil super villain/threat to all mankind he must be to do such things!! Freakin Pay pal. If it were not against forum rules I would tell you WHAT they suck. You would'nt want to know anyway though.

Dragun
May 4, 2006, 11:50 PM
Daniel, they obviously meant it to mean just bullets as they still froze lynn's account. they won't even let you sell cartridge cases.

AMMUNITION
You may not use PayPal to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which
hold more than 10 rounds), ammunition with propellant (e.g., gunpowder), or
blank ammunition. The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any
firearm.

Bruce333
May 4, 2006, 11:50 PM
I find it odd that you can sell bullets on ebay (just searched and found 91 open auctions for various bullets on ebay) but can't pay for them with paypal. Ebay's prohibited items list doesn't mention ammunition at all. Since paypal is owned by ebay you would think their policies would be the same.

They must not do a very good job of enforcing their own policy. Almost all of those 91 auctions for bullets I found have the paypal accepted symbol on the auction listing.

Hoploholic
May 5, 2006, 02:34 AM
I would be interested to find out who the bung hole was that turned you in. PaySow hardly ever stumbles on this kind of thing themselves.

Doggieman
May 5, 2006, 06:27 AM
gearpay.com bro. They WANT your business. :what:

JoseM
May 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
I just signed up for Gearpay, thanks for the link!

unspellable
May 5, 2006, 10:05 AM
Never mind the anti-gun policy. After the first $1000 they want my checking account number. NO WAY, Jose! Not after I caught AT&T double dipping in my checking account and it took over a year to get that mess ironed out.

Zero_DgZ
May 5, 2006, 10:08 AM
I'll be moving to Gearpay for all my site's stuff soon, I think.

Ebay froze my account and then stole the money out of it (admittedly only 40 bucks) for the accusation of recieving 'suspicious' money, because a forum buddy of mine was giving out christmas bonuses of ten bucks to all the BB moderators.

After a while they unfroze the account (after much complaining from me) but interestingly wouldn't let me close it. Since they still had my address, checking account number, and credit card number I called them up and played the phone runaround to talk to a supervisor, and then made it extra special clear that I'd be pressing charges if they touched my card or bank account. I also had to tell my bank not to let PayPal do anything with my account, which was fun.

After that they unfroze the account real quick, but I never got my forty bucks back.

sturmruger
May 5, 2006, 12:37 PM
While I agree that paypal is antigun I disagree that they are bad company. Paypal has inabled thousands of people across the country to make a decent living selling things online. They account for millions of dollars in revenue for small business owners in all 50 states. If you don't want to get busted by the paypal police you have to be smart and not give them more info then they need.

I have had an account with paypal now for around 4 years I trust them to do the right thing. Most people that have trouble with paypal are at fault. My buddy got suckered by one of those phishing scams and instead of admitting that he screwed up he is all pissed off at Paypal. Well it isn't Paypal fault that you are stupid and didn't read the whole email. The key is if you ever get an email from Paypal don't use the link in the email!!! Type it in to you browser manually and go check it out.

JoseM
May 5, 2006, 12:48 PM
Never mind the anti-gun policy. After the first $1000 they want my checking account number. NO WAY, Jose!

Huh, wud I do?!:D

mp510
May 5, 2006, 12:53 PM
Yeah, that defines the term ammunition as it relates to "amunition with propellant" and "blank ammunition". If they meant for it to include just a bullet, why wouldn't they just have stated "ammunition" instead of specifiying it "with propellant"?
__________________

It may have something to do with PAYPAL allowing people to use their service s for transactions involving dummy cartriges.

The folks at PAYPAL are pretty ignorant:rolleyes: I remember them billing my MC $1.75 when I joined. Cust-serv couldn't explain it, but they put 1.75 in my PAYPAL account. One a nice note, they did just give me a $10 'bonus' for no reason.........hmmmmmm...............

I wonder if their anti-gun policy is related to political views or paranoid liability fears.

Diomed
May 5, 2006, 02:46 PM
If you don't want to get busted by the paypal police you have to be smart and not give them more info then they need.

Bingo.

They don't need to know everything, and you don't have to tell 'em.

1 old 0311
May 5, 2006, 02:58 PM
I quit using Pay Pal long ago. The world will continue without them.

Kevin

Zero_DgZ
May 5, 2006, 02:58 PM
I wouldn't take the risk, personally. They can make your life (businesswise, at the very least) rather miserable on a whim.

To me, PayPal's demonstrated that they are a very fickle and untrustworthy company and I don't want to have anything to do with them. Your mileage will vary, of course, as it always does with these things. But me, I wouldn't go giving their Inquisition Squad any more potential work on my dime.

Chipperman
May 5, 2006, 02:59 PM
I do use Paypal to buy stuff, usually for my wife. I have never, nor will I ever give them my bank account number. I consider Paypal as just a method of allowing sellers to take credit cards.

scooterthegreat
May 5, 2006, 03:15 PM
I set up a paypal account quite some time ago. Opened up a seperate savings only account for it. I've not had any trouble with them, however, I only use it as a courtesy for selling hockey tickets.

I did want to have something set up for my business so I could accept credit cards there as well, but the withdrawal restricitions changed my mind quick.

Mizzle187
May 5, 2006, 04:56 PM
I can name 10+ online companies(some rather known) right now who sell nothing but ammo,mags,scopes,flash hiders,slings,stocks, and everything in between. I know of 2 of the top of my head who actually sell new firearms and some used. They all accept PayPal. Some advertised some not but. So although PayPal has this policy people are getting around it. Some blatently. PayPal knows about them and for whatever reason(my guess money) they dont do anyhting about it.

yomama
May 5, 2006, 05:35 PM
I just bought some bullets off E-bay 2 weeks ago and used paypal. I linked from E-bay to use paypal so all the auction info was right there for paypal to see. I guess I just I just got lucky. The more I here about them, the more I want to quit using them. If you'll excuse me now, I think I will go check out gearpay. Sounds like this may be a good option.

omnivore75
May 6, 2006, 02:02 AM
Like I said, just go to pay pal sucks dot com and read up. They have been shady for a long time and the support people they have are rude, unhelpful, and downright incompetent.

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