Is there a civilian version of HK MP5?


PDA






Kentak
May 5, 2006, 12:23 PM
If so, I want one.

K

If you enjoyed reading about "Is there a civilian version of HK MP5?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
boofus
May 5, 2006, 12:24 PM
HK94 They haven't been imported since 1989

walking arsenal
May 5, 2006, 12:28 PM
I belive bobcat weapons makes a decent copy if i remember right. Vulcan armaments makes one too i think, but beware quality with them.

nbkky71
May 5, 2006, 01:35 PM
I believe that HK did import semi-auto MP5's too. However, they are pretty rare. They're still NFA items since they have the 9" barrel.

HK94 carbines can be had but they will cost you some serious $$$. There are some CA DOJ returns floating around in the neighborhood of $2600. You could always buy an HK94 and have it legally converted to a short barrelled rifle.

hksw
May 5, 2006, 02:07 PM
SOG has some HK94s on sale this month. (Genuine HK.)

Chipperman
May 5, 2006, 02:10 PM
Vector makes a .40 S&W copy.
http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html

I personally would not buy any of the other brands mentioned above. There are no good quality 9mm MP5 copies currently available.

The best options for a non-NFA weapon would be an HK94/ SP89, or a Vector.

chopinbloc
May 5, 2006, 02:45 PM
bobcat IS vulcan. both have less than sterling reputations. i have heard, though i can't verify it, that the hk clones marketed by vektor are also bobcat/vulcan.

in any case, they are all well over a thousand and that's way too much for me to spend on a product of suspect quality. to make it worse, it's not even just a reliabilty issue. there have been reports of major breakages and spontaneous disassemblies including injury.

again, it's all internet hearsay but it seems to be the general consensus and not just a few angry owners.

Bwana John
May 5, 2006, 02:59 PM
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4428/mp56sm.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mp56sm.jpg)
Yea, MP-5's are pretty cool!
Not a HK, but a select fire, HK licenced, "Hecho en Mexico" clone.

Number 6
May 5, 2006, 04:41 PM
bobcat IS vulcan. both have less than sterling reputations.

Bobcat is not Vulcan. Vulcan used to be Hesse, but to the best of my knowledge there is no association with Bobcat. Bobcat has been associated with Special Weapons Inc., but the degree that they are related has been in dispute. It is true that Hesse, Vulcan, Bobcat, and Special Weapons Inc. all have less than stellar reputations in terms of quality.

i have heard, though i can't verify it, that the hk clones marketed by vektor are also bobcat/vulcan.

I would seriously doubt this claim mainly due to Vector's reputation, but also due to each design being chambered in different calibers. The Bobcat is a copy of the HK design, but the Vulcan I believe is not however. The Vulcan design is a straight blowback design and is only an MP5 clone in terms of appearance. From what I have heard, Vector is supposed to make a high quality clone of the MP5 and the problems have been associated with the Vulcans.

Ohio Rapid Fire is also supposed to make a decent copy of the MP5 in 9mm, but I have not heard of any reviews yet. Almost all of the clones that I have heard of have been well over $1000, so I would expect to pay a good chunk of change.

Correia
May 5, 2006, 04:57 PM
I'm a dealer. I won't do business with Special Weapons or Bobcat or Hesse/Vulcan.

I do business with Vector and Ohio Rapid Fire and have only had good experiences.

CleverNickname
May 5, 2006, 07:55 PM
I believe that HK did import semi-auto MP5's too. However, they are pretty rare. They're still NFA items since they have the 9" barrel.

If they did, then they're pre-sample SBRs. No title II guns (not just machine guns) have been importable for sale to the general public after the passage of the 1968 GCA. Since they're not available to the general public, I'm guessing they're probably just push-pin receivers with FBI trigger packs, which still makes them machine guns in the BATFE's eyes.

If you want a HK94, now's the time to get one, as the California CHP recently traded a couple hundred HK94's back to HK, who turned around and put them back on the market. This has depressed the price for HK94's a little bit in the past months.

As an aside, because these guns were imported for use by a law enforcement agency, once they're sold by that agency they're not subject any more to the revised 1989 "sporting purpose" import restrictions that banned HK94 imports for sale to the general public. I bought one of the aforementioned California HK94's last month, and its date code indicates it was manufactured in 1992.

Correia
May 5, 2006, 07:57 PM
I can get you an HK94 for about $2,900 and do the SBR paperwork for it if you want.

Hkmp5sd
May 5, 2006, 09:28 PM
Here's mine. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Hkmp5sd/ann-MP5.jpg

Deer Hunter
May 5, 2006, 09:34 PM
I saw an MP5 in a CDNN catalogue recently. 3000 dollars for it, however. It was a semi-automatic with a 16" barrel.

smince
May 5, 2006, 10:48 PM
HKMP5SD:

Great pic of a great gun with a great background.:D

I had a friend sell a Special Weapons 9mm (HK 94 copy, fixed stock, 16" barrel) today. His has been reliable, but it is the only one I know of. He sold it for a grand.

rkba_net
May 6, 2006, 12:47 AM
As a side note HK did import some SEMI MP5's.... these are NOT SBR'S (Short Barrel Rifles)... they are machineguns as they can be converted to full-auto by changing the trigger group...

Diamondback6
May 6, 2006, 01:04 AM
+1 to Correia's comments about (not-so-)Special Weapons. They screwed over a friend on AWBanSunset bigtime.

http://awbansunset.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=5888

Now, if HK would build a US plant and learn to, as Gunny Ermey might say, "sound off like they had..." (consult the Mail Call piece on doughboys, specifically the "Mini-Lee" commentary afterward...), then scuzzballs like SW wouldn't have a market for the crap they pull. Next to them, Kahr Thompsons get superlatives...

Hkmp5sd
May 6, 2006, 01:51 AM
)... they are machineguns as they can be converted to full-auto by changing the trigger group...
Any HK semi can be made to shoot full auto by changing the trigger group. If I had been smart enough to buy a HK SP-89 before the price increase of 1989, I could use my full auto trigger group to make it a MP5K.

Destructo6
May 6, 2006, 03:29 AM
Any HK semi can be made to shoot full auto by changing the trigger group.
I'm sure what he meant was that these semi MP5s had push-pin receivers and could accept any factory MP5 trigger group without modification.

smince
May 6, 2006, 06:18 AM
Didn't the FBI start issue of MP5's with a semi trigger group after the Miami incident?

rfurtkamp
May 6, 2006, 07:59 AM
I always wanted a MP5 or something equivalent. My Vector V51 in .308 gives me that in spades. Yes, it's a legal SBR. ;0

http://media.furtkamp.com/unfolded-left-web.jpg

100% functional, and downright unsporting at ranges that the MP5 would run in fear at. Recent test shoots show there's no safe human-sized target to 400m.

Chipperman
May 6, 2006, 09:28 AM
Here's a pic of my MP5:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Chipperman/MP5A2.jpg

:cool:

chakup
May 6, 2006, 12:16 PM
My wife learning the ropes on a buddy's FA MP5:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e39/ckuplent/erin9mmMP5.jpg

c_yeager
May 6, 2006, 04:24 PM
I am always saddened when a new shooter asks me where to get a civilian MP5 of some variety. I almost feel bad when I explain to them that we are not quite that free anymore, and that "yes" our government and the anti-gun lobby is outright lying to us when they say that such things flood the streets for $50 a pop.

Tman
May 7, 2006, 09:25 AM
rfurtkamp:
Just curious, whats the muzzleblast/recoil like on your SBR Vector 51 :what:

Kentak
May 7, 2006, 05:12 PM
c_yeager

LOL. Don't be sad. I'll survive. ;-) I was hoping maybe they (or someone) made a semi-auto only version with a 16in barrel.

Am I wrong to assume that such a firearm would be civilian legal?

Thanks for all the informative replies, guys.

K

Number 6
May 7, 2006, 06:40 PM
LOL. Don't be sad. I'll survive. ;-) I was hoping maybe they (or someone) made a semi-auto only version with a 16in barrel.

Am I wrong to assume that such a firearm would be civilian legal?


Yes such a firearms would certainly be legal. As long as the barrel is 16 inches then no special paperwork is needed. If you wanted to go with a short barreled version of the rifle, then they can be had with some extra paperwork and money. Vector and Ohio Rapid Fire both make good quality versions of the MP5 with 16in barrels. Some will have just the bare barrels, but others will have fake suppressors on them. Here are the company links. You kind of have to dig around to fine the designs you want. Also, Atlantic Firearms has a Vector MP5/10 and MP5/40 listed as well.

http://www.ohiorapidfire.com/
http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=4

Edited - You were right, it had no relevance to the topic - BR

rfurtkamp
May 8, 2006, 12:09 AM
rfurtkamp:
Just curious, whats the muzzleblast/recoil like on your SBR Vector 51


Recoil is on par or less than an average G3. No problems at all. It ejects brass more forcefully due to the shortened bolt carrier/action.

Muzzle blast is louder in the bass range. Flash is non-existent - the V51 flash and boom of lore is due to Fleming's backpressure-inducing mega muzzle brake, not the gun itself.

gopguy
May 8, 2006, 11:29 AM
I bought my HK 94 back in the late 1980s, they were hovering near a grand then. Last one I saw for sale was pushing $4K. That is a lot for a 9mm carbine.

Hkmp5sd
May 8, 2006, 07:37 PM
SOG is offering original HK-94 for $2,400.

SnakeEater
May 8, 2006, 07:52 PM
This will make your eyes misty. HK (http://www.hkspecialist.net/title2.htm)

Hkmp5sd
May 8, 2006, 08:59 PM
What's interesting is the cost of pre-86 dealer samples is now more than four times what I paid for my transferrable MP5SD. Man, I really hate 922(o).

weaponeer
January 11, 2007, 03:20 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/77/155880885_ac78f20ef8.jpg

weaponeer
January 11, 2007, 03:23 AM
Video of it being shot can be found here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3786430796804534991&hl=en

ForeverArmed
January 11, 2007, 07:48 AM
With all respect, I wouldn't let myself get lured by the "sex appeal" of an MP-5 clone if you intend to use the firearm as a self-defense or SHTF weapon.

Full-auto subguns really rely on hitting the target with multiple projectiles to get reliable stopping power, much like shotguns. A semi-only subgun clone is still probably a better weapon than a pistol in the same caliber, though (easier to aim quickly, better rapid-fire control).

Even if I had a full-auto MP-5, I would prefer a semi-auto rifle for home defense or SHTF instead. That's not sour grapes or envy speaking; it's because rifles have considerably better stopping power and can penetrate heavy body armor, whereas the MP-5 can't.

Having said all that, the fact that citizens can't legally buy new full-auto weapons (1986 law) is probably the single most unconstitutional gun law on the books today. It's not that full-auto is that useful (from shoulder-fired rifles, it's almost always inferior to rapid semi-auto) -- it's the principle at stake. We should work on getting it repealed. The fact that the NRA is silent on this issue really shows their true colors. Same with the "pro-gun" Republicans.

BucksDC
January 11, 2007, 08:09 AM
I have a Special Weapons SW-5 FS. It has the three lug MP5 bbl with the fake can pressed/welded.
It is true, it is a piece of junk. It was the most expensive gun I had ever purchased at the time (college). That is probably why I still have it.
IMO the top of the class in 9mm carbines is a 9 inch bbl'ed AR.

AK103K
January 11, 2007, 08:50 AM
Dont base the reliability or accuracy of the HK made guns on clone results. The HK's are 100% reliable and extremely accurate. In the many tens of thousands of rounds over 20+ years, I've had one part fail in my HK94 converted MP5, a roller retainer clip (the gun was still working with it broken too) and very rarely a stoppage.

With the right ammo, a MP5 length gun will easily make head shots (4" +/- groups) at 100 yards, and 25 yard groups are ragged little holes. Even on full auto, firing three round bursts, you will get three distinct groups, just slightly apart, on your target at 10-15 yards.

The fact that the NRA is silent on this issue really shows their true colors. Same with the "pro-gun" Republicans.
I think its important to keep in mind that the Republicans are just as bad as the Democrats when it comes to gun bans, and politicians, as well as the NRA all need to keep these "fights" going so they can keep "fighting for your rights".

One thing is for sure, you can no longer buy an HK 94 for $450, nor can you buy a converted MP5 for $800.

sefus
January 12, 2007, 06:27 PM
I've heard a Sub 2000 from Kel Tec be called the 'poor mans MP5' before. Lots of sex apeal, but if its not the real thing, its just not worth it.

-Sefus

crunker
January 12, 2007, 10:39 PM
http://www.f15.com/showthread.php?t=2939

Mp5sd, awesome gun where did you get it?

honkykong
May 15, 2009, 06:31 PM
http://www.gunsamerica.com/919145994/Guns/Rifles/Heckler-Koch-Rifles/Tactical/HK_94_early_date_code_w_mags_and_carriers.htm


and

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nonnfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=4557&query=retrieval

not sure if this is allowed. if not please let me know i"m new.

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 08:21 PM
Ohio Rapid Fire is also supposed to make a decent copy of the MP5 in 9mm, but I have not heard of any reviews yet.
And I don't believe you will...I think they have decided to cancel the project IIRC. All good MP5s cost a fortune, I have checked.

AK103K
May 15, 2009, 08:32 PM
here's mine
And your asking ten times what I paid for mine (mine was $450 new) back in 85. :)

Then again, the extra $350 I spent on the conversion was well worth it. I sold it for $15000 last year. :)

One thing I have noticed, the NFA stuff seems to be dropping. Maybe if we're lucky, they will repeal that silly ban. I'm not holding my breath though.

Killian_
October 8, 2009, 03:25 PM
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but are HK's legal in california.

sneedb82
October 8, 2009, 04:39 PM
delete

John Parker
October 8, 2009, 06:05 PM
They're boring without the giggle switch. I'll always have a soft spot for the Iranian clone that I had in Basrah...those were the days!

Quiet
October 9, 2009, 09:40 PM
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but are HK's legal in california.
It's complicated and depends on what it is and how it is marked.

Some are illegal, some can be made legal.

All depends on what it is.

So, you need to be specific (make/model as listed on the reciever).

Patnav
October 10, 2009, 03:30 AM
I bought my HK94 in 1986 for $449 (new) in San Leandro, CA. Sold it in 1990 for $1,500 to an FFL in Santa Cruz after the CA Assault Weapons Ban.http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/specfor9999/?action=view&current=hk94.jpghttp://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/specfor9999/?action=view&current=hk94a2.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Is there a civilian version of HK MP5?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!