Next cartridge to become obsolete?


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Don't Tread On Me
May 6, 2006, 08:28 AM
Which cartridge(s) pistol or rifle do you folks think will be obsolete soon?

I can't believe that all the cartridges we have today will remain with us till the end of firearms. Some are probably going to go, a few new ones might still come....

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MFL Jim McLoud
May 6, 2006, 08:33 AM
I just got some in after four months without a single box to sell. A good round with not enough demand :(

AirForceShooter
May 6, 2006, 09:13 AM
.17
The solution to a non-existent problem.
JMHO

AFS

LoadedDrum
May 6, 2006, 09:19 AM
I cannot believe I am the first to say this.

45 GAP.

aerod1
May 6, 2006, 09:25 AM
.41 Magnum, which is another great cartridge with a small following. I hope I am wrong on this one.

Manedwolf
May 6, 2006, 09:26 AM
.32 NAA. Definitely one of those "curio" rounds. It was meant to solve a problem that will be more easily solved by the new Rohrbach-sized micro-9mms. Skyy is coming out with a $300 one of the same size and weight this summer, supposedly...so why would someone want a hard-to-find 380-necked-to-32 when you can have cheap, readily available 9mm in something the exact same size?

And yeah, probably .45 GAP as well. It originally came out for some still-too-chunky Glocks, and now there's much smaller, lighter standard .45 ACPs by a number of manufacturers.

With all the "wow!" development in small autos by Springfield, Kahr and Taurus, I also think Glock itself could fade a bit unless they start innovating with new designs.

Gordon
May 6, 2006, 09:32 AM
.45 GAP for sure, followed by the Winchester short mags ith no home being manufactured.:uhoh:

stevelyn
May 6, 2006, 09:45 AM
The Winchester Super Short Magnums.

AFS, I gotta disagree with you on the .17s. I don't think the Mach 2 will be around very long and the .17 Aguila is basically non-existent, but the .17 HMR is here to stay. Even the ones sent out to our little community are scarfed up as soon as they come in.

Lupinus
May 6, 2006, 09:53 AM
17hmr is here to stay. I personaly am not overly fond of it but it is popular.

As to what is on its way out the .45 GAP and the Win. SSM

ajax
May 6, 2006, 10:02 AM
+1 Lupinus

Bwana John
May 6, 2006, 10:07 AM
The Winchester Super Short Magnums
+1, and Im not sad.

MFL Jim McLoud
May 6, 2006, 10:08 AM
A new cartridge only takes off if gun companies start pumping out guns to shoot them. What was Glock thinking? If I wanted a .45 short-I think I'd buy a .40 :D

The other fantastic round to go away is the .38 Super :banghead:
I have a Colt 1911 .38 super that was made in 1952 that is unfired NIB. I hate the damn thing because I just can't shoot it,and had to buy a used one to shoot!

lbmii
May 6, 2006, 10:27 AM
What is it called 204 Ruger? How about the 480 Ruger? 357 Sig maybe. 8mm Rem Mag. 450 Marlin. The excellent combat round that should have been but never was; the 6.8mm.

griz
May 6, 2006, 10:33 AM
A few years back I would have said the 32 mag, but the cowboy shooters have saved that from oblivion. The Remington short mags are on the way out if not there already. The 17 M2 and maybe one of those 6.8 rounds will probably fade away too.

Husker1911
May 6, 2006, 10:46 AM
The new "super" magnums. The Winchester supershort mags, the Remington Ultra mags, and their ilk. They've cluttered up an already overstuffed selection of worthy cartridge selections, and their perceived improvements aren't enough to ultimately cause them to succeed.

dfaugh
May 6, 2006, 10:56 AM
I suspect a whole lot of them. But, I don't have a crystal ball, so its a tough call to say which ones. There are now SO many available chamberings, some things are gonna die.

I'll shock a few people and say there's some old diehards, that may someday fade away, or at least become less and less common. For example, .270, as alot of people are going for 7mm, or the short mags, or other similar cartridges. But, of course because of the HUGE number of .270 guns out there, it'll be a very long time before this goes away. Possible the 30-06 even, as I suspect sales of .308 are currently much higher than 30-06. But, again, we're talking a LONG time before it goes away, or become unpopular.

Some of the "new" chamberings will likely die...I think the WSMs will stay but the WSSMs may not stick around. I never understood the attraction to the .204, but so far it seems popular and will probably stick around.

The .17 HMR will probably stick around, the .17 Mach 2 may not.

Pilot
May 6, 2006, 10:59 AM
I think .357 Sig will eventually go to the scrap heap.

Larry Ashcraft
May 6, 2006, 11:20 AM
The .17 HMR is just as hot today as it was when it first came out, and with good reason.

It'll stay around.

Euclidean
May 6, 2006, 11:22 AM
.357 Sig might be relegated to hardcore shooters eventually like 10mm, but it won't be any time soon. Too many LE agencies are picking it up.

Think about it... you need new guns. The first thing that happens is the people that pay your bills ask what's wrong with your old guns. There's only two arguments you can really use that the general public will swallow: We need higher capacity, or we need harder hitting guns.

You can compare .357 Sig to any service catridge and make the argument one way or the other. Say your department issues a 9mm pistol, you can argue it doesn't have enough "knockdown power" (I am aware such a thing does not exist in reality, but this argument would wash) you need something bigger. Say you have .45 ACP sidearms, odds are pretty good you have 8 round magazines, you can argue you need 12 rounds to keep up with the bad guys. Say you have .40 S&W, you can argue that it's not as powerful or whatever. You can spin the argument any way you need to in order to get new guns.

Truthfully we can argue this with any service catridge vs any other service cartridge and we do it, all the time. It's the most infamous debate in these circles. But this time the difference is the .357 Sig is relatively new, and odds are excellent any given agency has not issued it before.

The police are not buying into this cartridge because it's good (and it is), they're getting into it because it's new and shiny and a great excuse to replace their sad looking 15 year old deparment issued pistolas.

The fact is if your agency has already gone from the .38 Special to the .357 Magnum to the .45 ACP to the 9mm to the .40 S&W, you are running out of cartridges, and that is the "excuse" you must leverage to justify a new service pistol.

It might fade out here after 2 or 3 cycles of these agencies buying new service pistols, but I wonder if it won't actually increase in popularity for the next 10-20 years before it begins to fade.

mrmeval
May 6, 2006, 11:39 AM
Can .357sig be rebarreled to 9mm/40/45 in most cases? The guns may be out there but the round may die.

mp510
May 6, 2006, 12:10 PM
I believe that the .17 rimfire series will go obselete. The Winchester WSM's and WSSM's will go obselete. The .45 GAP and .357 SIG will stay around, for a little while.

With some guns, you can interchange barrels between .357 sig and .40 S&W. The .357 sig is a .40 necked down to .357.

Matt G
May 6, 2006, 12:18 PM
The .357 Sig will be here a long, long time. Interchangability with .40 makes it a versatile pistol, and the figures on paper wow admin types.

Keep in mind the title of the thread: "Next cartridge to become obsolete?"

I would have to agree that the Remington short magnums are going, if not gone, as they have even less popularity than the Winchester short magnums, which have questionable survivability.

The .32 NAA is still hard for me to classify as a production round, as it's only made by specialty makers like Corbon, and I still think of it as a wildcat. But it's definitely a contender.

Every once in awhile I think that the .257 Roberts is on its way out, but it's hanging on. (good.) Same goes for the 16ga. shotshell.

The .250 Savage is hanging on by the skin of its teeth, but that's mostly because of diehards. (Gawd bless 'em.)

The .38 S&W is a pretty sickly round, and is fired exclusively in old guns that are out of production, and which are usually every bit as big as thouse chambering more powerful rounds like the .38 Special.

The .38 Special has experienced a rather impressive comeback over the last 15 years, due to the huge selection of snubbies available for it. Good deal. Our grandkids will still know that old round.

The .41 Long Colt, however, is gone. Utterly gone. 3 years ago, I bought a box from Old Western Scrounger for over $50. These days, it'd run even higher, if you could find it. This round fell precisely because the .38 Special became some popular. With practically identical ballistics at the heavy end and more options and an inside-lubricated bullet on the .38 Special side, the .41 didn't have a chance.

I don't expect the .480 Ruger to last long. With the .454 Cassul still going strong and with the .50 S&W the big boy at the bicycle rack, the .480 Ruger really doesn't have the appeal of popularity or "biggest" to anyone anymore. Expect it to fade out.

The .300 Norma Mag (while a good round) really doesn't have much of a place, does it? Likewise the H&H? (shrug) But then, we've been betting on one to fall out for over 20 years, with nothing doing, and still more .30 mags entering the fray. :)

I frankly see no reason why, in a world with so much redundancy, we couldn't keep the GAP round. (Do I want one? Not really, no. :) )

The .17 HMR is a cute rimfire that's not going away for a long time. I know too many guys that rave about it and shoot it by the caseload.

The .204 Ruger appeals to the "Faster Is Better" crowd, without offending them with recoil. Just yesterday at the range my 86-year-old great uncle was raving about it, and couldn't wait to show his off to me. It'll be around for awhile.



It's a fun game. Frankly, it's one of my favorite games in my hobby of firearms. :) Isn't variety wonderful? :)

Justin
May 6, 2006, 12:38 PM
The .38 S&W is a pretty sickly round, and is fired exclusively in old guns that are out of production, and which are usually every bit as big as thouse chambering more powerful rounds like the .38 Special.

I was at the local Gonne Shoppe about three weeks ago, and a fellow came looking to buy some ammunition for a revolver he had. I don't recall the exact name of the gun, but it had "Banker" in it, like "Banker's Special" or something like that. It was chambered for a .38 round, but not .38 Spl.

Since you brought that oddball round up, I have to wonder if it was .38 S&W.

usp9
May 6, 2006, 12:47 PM
offers nothing new and is very expensive.

ewb45acp
May 6, 2006, 01:00 PM
What makes a particular cartridge obsolete? A patched round ball, over a charge of black powder will still get the job done. This is more a discussion of what cartridges will dissapear due to lack of interest. I think we'll have all of these rounds with us for a very long time. Even if your "obsolete" chambering only captures a small niche market. A fraction of a % of 80,000,000 gun owners is still alot of guns and ammo sold.

The .38 Super is a good example. There are many cartridges out there that are better than the super. Yet here we are 70 years later. Colt, Kimber, and Springfield still cranking out pistols. The .41mag should have been gone long ago, and still it has it's small cult that see what the rest of us don't. I've been hearing how the 10MM is finished since Colt gave up on the Deltas.

Now, with the internet it is much easier to reach out (as a manufacturer and as a customer) and find the niche markets. Heck, You can still buy .41 rimfire ammo if you need it.

lbmii
May 6, 2006, 01:33 PM
The Remington Ultra Mags went over like a lead ballon.

You know the 357 mag is a big favorite with me but it is way down from where it used to be at and the ammo is high dollar.

The 10 gauge went under when the 3 1/2 12s came in.

I would say that with more and more 25 auto size 380s out there that the 25 and 32acp are ify. The 25 and 32 will stay around but fewer pistols will be chambered for them. The 25 is only chambered in cheap autos and that market was hit hard with shipping restrictions and thus higher costs. But even cheap autos have gone up in caliber from the 25. The 32acp made a big come back with all those states going to CCW but I think the 380 will now become the CCW of choice.

Two rounds that never really were are the 50auto and the 500 S&W Special.

Harry Paget Flashman
May 6, 2006, 01:36 PM
I think the 5.7X28mm is going to go away. I wish it weren't so or that I didn't think this way. It keeps me from buying an FN Five-seveN.

Don't Tread On Me
May 6, 2006, 01:39 PM
What makes a particular cartridge obsolete?

Hmmm. Good question. That's kind of hard to define. There could be many different definitions. The military considers .30-06 as obsolete, but we don't. Here's some ideas though.

If a cartridge is no longer manufactured as new (not commercial reloads), it can be considered obsolete. This means, if you go to all your gun stores and can't find it, and you get online and check Midway or whatever major seller and no one has it - it's obsolete. This doesn't apply to shortages or import issues.

I wouldn't consider a cartridge that might still be popular today as not-obsolete because there is a large reloader following of it.

The exception would be if there are still new production firearms. I guess that would mean firearms made to be chambered in that cartridge. Not just barrel swaps. If you consider barrels, then add handloader followings...then any wildcat out there can be considered non-obsolete.

Hypothetically:

Let's say Kimber sells .38super pistols, but absolutely no one manufactures new factory .38super. I wouldn't consider it obsolete. That would be an exception only because new production firearms are being made for that cartridge.


A cartridge exists partially in the production of firearms for it, and the production of ammo. If both aren't happening, it's gone. If firearms are made, it isn't gone.

Cosmoline
May 6, 2006, 01:51 PM
WSSM's for sure, and probably the .35 WSM even though it's one of the more interesting of the short mags. The other WSM's will probably linger on.

The .17 has really taken off locally, which is surprising since it has no practical use in this state. If that's any indication I suspect it will keep kicking around.

.41 Magnum, 10mm and the like aren't going to completely die off. Though they never took off as much as expected, there are still hundreds of thousands of firearms out there chambered for them and those firearms tend to be in the hands of active shooters.

.38 S&W is slowly but surely fading away. No new firearms have been made for it for many decades now. The remaining stock of breaktops has almost totally shifted from pockets to shelves. I don't think there will be a factory manufacturer for this round by the end of the decade. Indeed, I suspect the current stock may have been from old runs and once its gone that's it.

I suspect the .25 ACP is also going to die off. There are still quite a few wee semis chambered for it out there, but they don't get used much if at all.

.307 Win. and .300 Savage are sadly headed away, as is the .250-3000. They will be missed, but not by enough of us.

Though Marlin made a batch of new rifles for it a few years back, I also suspect the .32-20 will be doomed as what's left of the stock of rifles out there makes its way to the collectors' safes and museums. The problems with weak revolvers and extremely low SAAMI max pressure in factory rounds has already made this a handloader's proposition if you plan on shooting your rifle much.

Likewise, the .30-40 Krag is doomed. It hasn't been chambered in bupkus for many long decades and the existing stock is aging. It's a real shame, since when loaded heavy the round will drop big game like a magnum at close range with a fraction of the recoil.

depicts
May 6, 2006, 02:29 PM
Matt G and Cosmoline.... I've been dreading the day my beloved .250 "goes away" for 20 years, and it keeps hanging on. I know I'm just a sentimental old fool, but I love that round. Sure you can get a few hundred fps more in other, newer loads, but the .250 can still do a great job on deer to small varmints.

I'm always keeping my eye out for bolt guns in this chambering. I should have grabbed a Ruger when they were new...hard to find now.

Oh well, I have about 300 factory cases from the past few years that I can reload, so I'll be shooting it.

With all the rounds everyone is naming as on their way out, sounds like there will be a lot of collectable ammo out there. Maqybe I'll put some aside with my boxes of .35 Remington, .38 S&W, Savage .300 and .250, and all the .25,.32acp,32 Long, and .380, .22 shorts, 222 Remington and Sweet Sixteen shotgun shells I have tucked away.

MatthewVanitas
May 6, 2006, 03:35 PM
Huh, I'd never thought of .25ACP going under until I read this thread.

Now that I think about it, most of the good-quality .25ACP pistols out there have gone out of production or can't be imported: Colt, FN, Astra, CZ. Seecamp made some, but their .32 is far better known, and now they've moved on to .380.

There are a whole ton of junk guns from 1970-2000 floating around in .25ACP, but a lot of those are still probably loaded with the box of ammo they were bought with.

But the main thing about the future of the .25ACP: it seems that even the cheaper manufacturers are moving to higher calibers. The Bryco and Jimenez are in .380 and 9mm, the Hi-Points (supposedly a good step above quality-wise) are in .380/9mm/45ACP. Is even the bottom-end of the gun market moving away from .25ACP? With the demise of the Beretta Jetfire, there's not much quality left in the quarter-bore market.

-MV

R.W.Dale
May 6, 2006, 04:06 PM
I think that the .260 remington already has one foot in the grave , it's biggest fault is it isn't 7mm-08

.450 marlin is also on life support. The only thing this cartrige has done is to teach everybody how hot 45-70 should be.

All of the WSM and SAUM chamberings EXCEPT for the .270 it's the only one that fills a niche, The shooting public just didn't seem to fall for this one.

6.8SPC was stillborn from the start.


On the 17 HMR I think there are already more rimfires out there for this round then there are for 22 WMR. It's here to stay even if nobody else ever bought another new rifle.

racenutz
May 6, 2006, 04:21 PM
Whenever I see this topic come up I always think of the .225 Winchester. Even though it was a factory chambering for only 8 years and was basically killed off by the 22-250 being standardized by Remington a year after it introduction it is still being loaded http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X2251&cart=MjI1IFdpbmNoZXN0ZXI=

It highly unlikely any of the cartridges that have been popular for many years (30-06, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, etc) will ever be obsolete (as long as we still own firearms that is) and even those cartridges that aren't offered in new guns will have factory ammo available for many years to come.


As for reloading, any cartridge that can be made from another quickly & easily (.250 Savage from .308 Winchester for instance) will never be truly obsolete but others that cannot be made from another cartridge will eventually be dead (.17 HMR, .225 Winchester, .307 Winchester, etc)

trickyasafox
May 6, 2006, 04:33 PM
32 special, which sucks, its a nice round too.

xdoctor
May 6, 2006, 04:44 PM
I live in constant fear that there won't be an 7mm STW for elk season next year. Been stockpiling brass for a few years now.

odysseus
May 6, 2006, 06:15 PM
Can't believe someone said .17. That's a growing round in the varmint shooter world more and more.

Certainly I see .45 GAP stop being made in new firearms. Just no love really around for it. Not many buyers...

Larry Ashcraft
May 6, 2006, 06:30 PM
Can't believe someone said .17. That's a growing round in the varmint shooter world more and more.
I agree. Picture this:

A ten acre+/- horse pasture full of prairie dogs, farthest shot is about 200 yards. A centerfire will put the dogs down after about three shots. The dogs are not afraid of 22lr but it is ineffective past 100 yards, even with hyper velocity rounds. This is where the .17 HMR shines.

Last spring, we hunted just such a pasture. Sandy took the close dogs with a scoped 10/22 and Stingers. Anything past 100 yards was MINE.

Between about 9 and 11 am, we killed about 70 p'dogs. Most had fallen to the .17. :cool:

The little round just plain kills way better than it should.

Zen21Tao
May 6, 2006, 07:13 PM
10mm is a great round that hasn't managed to gain the appreciation it deserves. The same goes for the .357Sig. The .357Sigs interchangeablity and ballistics make it an impressive round. Luckily both the .357Sig and 10mm have enough of a following to keep them from becoming obsolete.

I wish that 7.62x39mm and the 5.45x39mm are the next rounds on the way to out being replaced by wide spread acceptance for the .223 and .308. Think of the possabilities, no more AKs :evil:

Eleven Mike
May 6, 2006, 07:32 PM
Shouldn't the GAP stick around just because it is made to fit in a 9mm or .40 cal frame? Seems a lot of pistol makers would find it easier to make a GAP than an ACP. I really doubt that a .45 caliber pistol round would fail to sell. Then again, Ruger's new line of auto-pistols started with the .45 ACP, so maybe that's not even an issue.

Leif
May 6, 2006, 07:38 PM
As much as it pains me to write this, because I love the cartridge, I think .44 special is slated for extinction, though not for a little while yet. :(

I'd have thought it might be .30 carbine, but there just are too many shootable M1 carbines still, so that will be awhile I guess.

How about .222? It seems largely to have been eclipsed by .223, at least in the US.

Ron James
May 6, 2006, 07:47 PM
I think the .357 Sig may go. BTY It's not neck down to .357, it's neck down to .355, in other words it's a Super Nine. Sig just wanted to cash in on the picture of a .357.

gazpacho
May 6, 2006, 09:29 PM
45 GAP and 6.8 SPC

Grey54956
May 7, 2006, 12:01 AM
No modern cartridge ever becomes obsolete. There will always be someone buying any cartridge. This is because shooters have very varied tastes. Some people still like or believe in the superiority of .38 Super. Heck, a few years ago, I was looking for one myself. There will always be someone who sees the .45 GAP as having an advantage over .45 ACP due to cartridge length and frame size. The .32 Magnum can't be killed because someone will always perceive it as being a little more concealable than a .38 Special, which honsetly should be obsolete in its own right, but someone always must extoll the virtues of the venerable and easy shooting .38.

It is difficult to obsolete a cartridge because there are so many firearms and ammunition companies. Now you have a number of smaller ammunition suppliers. They will be happy to crank out niche ammunition which isn't terribly unaffordable.

13.45
May 7, 2006, 12:08 AM
+1 for 45gap

michael_aos
May 7, 2006, 12:25 AM
Quote:
"I think that the .260 remington already has one foot in the grave"

Really? I was thinking this is a real up-and-comer. More factory and lots of custom rifles chambered in it.

Mike

Crosshair
May 7, 2006, 12:26 AM
+1 about the 260 Remington. It has two faults.

1. Cheap Swede Mausers gave 6.5x55 a head start.
2. The 260 uses a short action, that limits the OAL too much to use the heavier bullets and keep powder capacity. 6.5x55 uses a longer action and can take the heavy bullets better.

ARTiger
May 7, 2006, 12:33 AM
"Obsolete" What's that mean really? You can find ammo for most anything ever made if you look hard enough. To me obsolete is something like .36 rimfire, etc. . . . 19th. century cartridges at the beginning of the metallic cartridge era. surpassed by better centerfire technology. Is there really a centerfire cartridge produced since 1900 that you can't get ahold of a few if you try really hard and spend the necessary money? I mean really, other than the manufacturing oddities of one weird gun made for a likewise weird round, is there anything that was ever mass produced gun-wise in the 20th century that is truly impossible to find ammo for?

Not to hijack a good thread, but here's an idea: Why not let's have some fun with this? If you have what you think is a really obsolete cartridge, name it and that will be a challenge for the rest of us to find a "purchasable" stock of the same caliber.

Guidelines: Obsolete: Meaning no completely loaded ammunition available in that caliber for purchase by the general public. Qualifiers: Guns in said caliber mass produced by 2 or more manufacturers after 1900 . . . "purchasable" stock meaning at least one box (20+) of ammunition [complete loads - not just brass] in that caliber available for sale to the general public.

evan price
May 7, 2006, 01:55 AM
How about 7.62x54R for Moisan Nagant? Sure there are lots now but who knows in the future. Nothing new will be made for the cartridge.

I don't see 7.62x39 AK/SKS ammo going ANYWHERE for the next 50 years; there are too many of Mr. Kalashnikov's inventions in too many hands around the world to drop that cartridge.

Even though there are still guns for it, the .32 ACP (7.65 Rem) looks like a dud to me compared to you can fit .380/9mm Kurtz guns in the same size package. I know Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp, Kel-Tech P32, etc have 32ACP offerings but the .380's are the same size.

+1 on .25 auto going bye bye. What uses this anymore?

I hate to say it because I own and shoot them, but I dread the day when 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser ammo is not available for my M38. I save brass even though I do not reload.

CSA 357
May 7, 2006, 02:09 AM
what about the 22 magnum?looks like every one wants a 17 cal now! and ammo for the 22 mag is high , just a thought! *csa*:confused:

Don't Tread On Me
May 7, 2006, 02:14 AM
How about 7.62x54R for Moisan Nagant? Sure there are lots now but who knows in the future. Nothing new will be made for the cartridge.

Bad call. That's still used today by the Russian military in their belt fed machine guns. I don't know of any new manufacture rifles (except maybe Saiga type rifles) in that cartridge, but there is such a massive amount of milsurp rifles that it will be around a long time. Wolf, S&B and a few others produce this ammo for the commercial market right now.


10mm could make a comeback. 10mm is one FBI massacre away from acceptance. If the .40S&W fails to stop some drugged up psychopath, and the blame game begins on cartridge once again, what do you go to?


what about the 22 magnum?looks like every one wants a 17 cal now! and ammo for the 22 mag is high , just a thought!


You're right. It is like $10 a box to buy premium .22mag ammo. This is to have a chance at competing with the .17hmr. The .17hmr beats it in virtually all respects except bullet weight. Some hunters still feel the .22mag is better in the 100-130 yard range on rabbits and other game being a "faster stopper"....

flatdog
May 7, 2006, 02:36 AM
I was at the local Gonne Shoppe about three weeks ago, and a fellow came looking to buy some ammunition for a revolver he had. I don't recall the exact name of the gun, but it had "Banker" in it, like "Banker'sSpecial" or something like that. It was chambered for a .38 round, but not .38 Spl.


Justin,

It might have been one of those little snubbies in .38 S&W.

Husker1911
May 7, 2006, 02:42 AM
The Remington EtronX is already discontinued, I believe. A worthy concept, most shooters are more nuts and bolts types, and probably had a mistrust of electronic primer ignition.

rangerruck
May 7, 2006, 02:57 AM
hornet. too many 223 's out there.

mrmeval
May 7, 2006, 05:10 AM
Where do you find new pinfire ammo?

Lebben-B
May 7, 2006, 07:01 AM
.45 GAP. The GAP was an attempt by Glock at the time to have a "45" of some sort in their line-up.

6.8 SPC. SPC has never taken off because Remmy hasn't promoted it to civilian hunters and shooters. It failed with the Army because it was an "underground" round developed by SF and the AMU instead of through the normal procurement channels. Also using longer, heavier OTM-type rounds in the M4/M16 is a cheaper solution than rebarreling and rechambering millions of weapons. 6.8mm will be popular only with those uber-tacti-cool types who try to dress like contractors/operators when they go to a range.

redneck2
May 7, 2006, 07:42 AM
The Remington EtronX is already discontinued, I believe.What a dog that one was. As least on standard firearms you can get a new barrel and screw it on to get rid of a dud.

I'm in for the Remington RSUM's. Solution to a non-problem. The endless number of insane (IMO) uber calibers in revolvers...460', 480's, 500's. There's little to nothing practical they'll do better than a .44 mag except empty your wallet faster.

Since there are less and less centerfire rifles being sold for hunting every year, I'd think mfg's would be careful about new calibers that won't do anything the millions in existance already can do

Every hard core shooter should have Cartridges of the World There's probably something that hasn't been invented, but's going to be hard to find

One thing I think is real eye opening are articles by John Barsness in Handloader magazine. The June 2006 has an article that gives basic parameters about bullet weight/caliber/powder capacity. For example, velocity increases 25% of the rate of powder increase. If you increase powder capacity by 10%, velocity will typically be upped by 2.5% assuming equal pressures.

The other thing that's interesting is the relationship between bullet diameter and weight vs. velocity. The closer the bullet is to case diameter, the more effecient. This is the reason calibers like the .35 Whelen are so effective even though they don't burn a handful of powder with every shot.

White Horseradish
May 7, 2006, 03:33 PM
Bad call. That's still used today by the Russian military in their belt fed machine guns. I don't know of any new manufacture rifles (except maybe Saiga type rifles) in that cartridge, but there is such a massive amount of milsurp rifles that it will be around a long time. Wolf, S&B and a few others produce this ammo for the commercial market right now.I believe they still use the SVD, plus there is a large number of hunters and target shooters in Russia with all sorts of rifles in that caliber. Izhmash and TOZ make new sporting guns in it, too.

goste
May 7, 2006, 08:01 PM
ARTiger, I would think the Jerico's-Tanfoglios-CZ's would quailify as mass produced. Try to find .41AE lately? Pretty much all places that advertise it don't have it in stock, the last I looked . Been a while tho.

For handgun I would say.
1..41AE (pretty much already gone)
2..356TSW.

Long arms.
1.376 Steyer
2.The Rem Ultra Mags/short Ultra mag (SAM ?)
3.303 savage

Manedwolf
May 7, 2006, 08:08 PM
Huh, I'd never thought of .25ACP going under until I read this thread.

Now that I think about it, most of the good-quality .25ACP pistols out there have gone out of production or can't be imported: Colt, FN, Astra, CZ. Seecamp made some, but their .32 is far better known, and now they've moved on to .380.

There are a whole ton of junk guns from 1970-2000 floating around in .25ACP, but a lot of those are still probably loaded with the box of ammo they were bought with.

I don't think that's going away anytime soon. Speer makes Gold Dots in that caliber, Hornady makes a Custom XTP, MagSafe makes a +P Defender, and Winchester just recently came out with an Expanding Point 45gr for it.

Yes, it's small, but it's a centerfire, and with continual advancements in propellants and bullets, it fills a niche that the less-reliable rimfire .22 can't.

All those manufacturers obviously think so, or they'd not go to the considerable tooling-up costs to produce complex little frangibles and hollowpoints for it.

BTW, Taurus still makes and sells lots of the PT25 copies of the Jetfire, in everything from plain black and nickel to some godawful ugly pink-pearl-grip versions that I can't fathom someone wanting to have.

If they just came out with something even SMALLER, the .17 HMR, I don't think the favored pocket snake-gun caliber of still many people (and one of JMB's legacy calibers, even) is going to go away anytime soon. :D

Mortech
May 7, 2006, 08:44 PM
The 357 Sig is here to stay a while , as amatter of fact my last 3 new pistols have been in 40S&W because I can just purchase a new barrel in 357 to shoot this round . It works like a charm on the feral dogs and coyotes around here ....now only if I can get a light carbine chambered in this caliber .......

Dionysusigma
May 7, 2006, 09:05 PM
Come to think of it, what new guns are chambered in 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser)?

:confused: ;) :D

JAG2955
May 7, 2006, 09:42 PM
I'll venture the 16 ga shell.

Larry Ashcraft
May 7, 2006, 09:57 PM
I'll venture the 16 ga shell.
I don't think so. There are lots and lots of 16 ga guns still around. The owners just don't tend to sell them.

I have a friend who owns a 16 ga LeFevre, and a sweet gun it is!

loadedround
May 7, 2006, 10:09 PM
I sure hope the 10mm sticks around a little longer, but in the interim I'm buying 1000 new cases so that I can keep shooting my Colt Delta Elite. I agree that all the Winchester short and super short rounds will disappear now that Winchester has gone belly up.

engineer151515
May 7, 2006, 10:09 PM
45 GAP. The GAP was an attempt by Glock at the time to have a "45" of some sort in their line-up.


Really?

Glock had a G21, G30 and G36 all in 45ACP before 45GAP came around.

And I'll be shooting it long after it becomes "obsolete".

:)

Shootcraps
May 7, 2006, 11:02 PM
Shouldn't the GAP stick around just because it is made to fit in a 9mm or .40 cal frame?

It isn't. The GAP is only 1/8" shorter than the 45ACP. And it's still the same width. Not even close to the same frame size.

If somebody other than Glock and Springfield don't step up and make guns for it, it will have more trouble staying alive.

evan price
May 7, 2006, 11:04 PM
I guarantee my Glock G21 will be putting .45 lead downrange long after *I* am dead and buried....

Dacoda
May 7, 2006, 11:24 PM
hmm... .357 sig would of been my top choice, til I read this post.

.41 magnum?

I can't see the .17 mach 2 being around long, the HMR definitely though.

It's getting harder and harder for me to find .300 H&H rounds for my model 70.

oh yeah, and doesn't CZ use 7.62 x 25's in their old chech military pistols? good luck finding those things!

ARTiger
May 7, 2006, 11:33 PM
ARTiger, I would think the Jerico's-Tanfoglios-CZ's would quailify as mass produced. Try to find .41AE lately? Pretty much all places that advertise it don't have it in stock, the last I looked . Been a while tho.

For handgun I would say.
1..41AE (pretty much already gone)
2..356TSW.

Long arms.
1.376 Steyer
2.The Rem Ultra Mags/short Ultra mag (SAM ?)
3.303 savage

Well . . . that's quite a list of obsolete calibers, but here's where you can buy some of each today . . .

.41AE http://www.qual-cart.com/41_ae.htm

.356 TSW http://www.ammo-one.com/356TWS.html

.376 Steyr http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/store/products/productDisplay~manufacturer~Hornady~model~376+Steyr+Ammunition.htm

Rem Short Ultra Mag http://www.shootersmart.com/site/Library/display/?prodid=34411

.303 Savage http://www.chuckhawks.com/starsandstripesammo.htm

The .303 Savage was the biggest challenge. But in each case, new factory loaded ammunition with only a credit card number and Fedex between it and you. I've tried to think of several calibers in the criteria I originally posted that should be totally "dead", but after a bit of searching was always able to find at least one box of ammo somewhere.

Mooseman
May 7, 2006, 11:34 PM
7.62x25 isn't hard to find. I'm pretty sure it's still being made. Probably for all the tokarevs floating around.:)

Eleven Mike
May 8, 2006, 12:10 AM
Come to think of it, what new guns are chambered in 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser)?Didn't one of the big three American rifle makers just start offering that chambering?

The GAP is only 1/8" shorter than the 45ACP. And it's still the same width. Not even close to the same frame size.

If somebody other than Glock and Springfield don't step up and make guns for it, it will have more trouble staying alive.So, what was the point, just the smaller grip? Even that would seem like a good reason to make such guns.

Kurush
May 8, 2006, 01:31 AM
Well . . . that's quite a list of obsolete calibers, but here's where you can buy some of each today . . . And here's (http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/422?osCsid=ce0d61c120a5e3d03c304d08ed6f65ba) where you can buy some 8mm Nambu. And here's (http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/293?osCsid=ce0d61c120a5e3d03c304d08ed6f65ba) some 577-450 Martini-Henry! So what? You'll probably always be able to find someone to custom load obsolete centerfire calibers. That doesn't make them any less obsolete.

By the way, Remington made some 65 million .30-18 cartridges between 1918-1919, let me know when you find a box of it for sale :evil:

spooney
May 8, 2006, 01:37 AM
I believe you can get a Remington 700 in 8mm Mauser.:confused:


Edit-Nevermind I can't seem to find it listed on their site, it may have been a limited run type of thing.

VARifleman
May 8, 2006, 02:12 AM
Why did several people mention .38 Super? Does anyone remember that there are IPSC competitions still going on?

bromdenlong
May 8, 2006, 07:56 AM
The 2004 version of the Remington Limited Edition Classic was in 8mm Mauser. I think you can still get them at Wallyworld (:barf: ) or Zander's.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3170151

Hmm, Zander's doesn't seem to have them anymore.

Model520Fan
May 8, 2006, 12:28 PM
I think that the 5.5mm Velo Dog is about to be put to sleep. I thought it would be revived when Charlie Askins used it for centerfire pistol one year in the Nationals, but the next year, they raised the minimum caliber for centerfire. Barring an explosion in the dog population coincident with a drastic change in the demographics of the bicycling population, I think that the Velo Dog is pretty much on its last legs.

Smith & Wesson Man
May 8, 2006, 01:03 PM
My vote would be the 45gap. The next would be 357sig. Two that I don't want because I have and enjoy shooting is 41 magnum and 10mm.

Leif
May 8, 2006, 01:43 PM
Wasn't .45GAP more stillborn or failed to thrive than obsolete?

To me, "obsolete" implies an older item replaced by a more recent one that renders its predecessor superfluous and antique.

Seancass
May 8, 2006, 04:45 PM
.22LR. i just dont see this caliber going anywhere.

this is interesting to read. tells me not to buy any of these calibers.

kennyboy
May 8, 2006, 04:51 PM
Wake up and smell the coffee people. The .17HMR, although pricy is extremely popular. It is here to stay. Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Savage, CZ, Sako, etc., etc., etc. all have rifles chambered in .17HMR. It is a cool little round that can do a lot of damage at a long range for a rimfire.
The WSMs are also extremely popoular. They are difficult to find because they are sold out. I guess it is because they are fairly new and people are buying guns in WSM. As for the WSSMs, I do not know.

BigG
May 8, 2006, 05:08 PM
Did anyone mention .357 SIG?

pete f
May 8, 2006, 05:37 PM
All of the STW cartridges, good riddence, I saw one that had 100 rounds of factory thru it with a bore that looked like dried mud, so much erosion it would start stripping jacket material after 3 shots.

The 250 and 300 savage are sticking around becuase there are a million rifles out there still killing deer. will not be sales leaders, but they do kill deer.

The WSSM. they errode barrels almost as fast as the STW's.

The 8 mm Rem mag. DEAD

357 maximum. dead

I hate to say it, but unless something happens, I would venture that in five years there will be no standard chamberings in 7mm08 and 280 rem.

45 gap, just not looking too healthy

41 action express

10mm

32 special and 35 rem. 307 and 357 winchester, 358 winchester
no one is chambering them anymore.

The 284 as a 284, dead. living well, 6x 284 and the 6.5 x284

6..6 grendel

the 6.8 SPC


The super mags, RSUM and the RUM lines just do not do anything not done before.

georgeduz
May 8, 2006, 06:08 PM
i hope the 9mm will be next

Quaamik
May 8, 2006, 08:46 PM
The next? Hmmmmmm that's a tough one.

Much as I hate to admit it, .450 SMC is dead. One might consider it stillborn, as virtually no firearms were made for it. Ditto the .40 Super.

On life support:
.38 Casull (only one pistol offered)
.400 CorBon (only conversion kits, ammo from one manufacturer)
.41 AE (do they still make pistols in this? were they ever popular?)
.45 Super (only conversion kits, ammo name is trademarked)
.460 Roland (only conversion kits. Is ammo available?)
6.8 SPC (one pistol and two AR varients, but where can you get ammo)
.475 Wildey (one pistol line only ever chambered in it, ammo from one source)


Too early to tell:
.17 Mach 2
.50 GI
.50 Special

The .45 GAP isn't going away anytime soon. It's been picked up by three manufacturers in 4 pistols. Glock, Springfield (in both 1911 and XD) and now Para either are or have offered it. I expect you will see at least one, possibly two other manufacturers offer micro sized pistols in it in the next 2 years.

surfinUSA
May 8, 2006, 08:46 PM
10mm could make a comeback. 10mm is one FBI massacre away from acceptance. If the .40S&W fails to stop some drugged up psychopath, and the blame game begins on cartridge once again, what do you go to?

When that happened the 9mm was really just becoming popular with police departments and bullet developement wasn't what it is today. The 40 is a well established killer available in many good and proven loadings. Any failures will be seen as the anomolies they are, just like failures with the 45.

The 10mm is a great round that is destined to be just like the 41 magnum having a dedicated following that will keep it alive the same with the 44 special. Both the 10mm and 41 were destined to fail in police work, not because of their recoil, but because of the size and weight of the guns they are chambered in. Even if recoil isn't normally an issue, it becomes one if the gun is too large to get a proper grip.

gp911
May 9, 2006, 07:41 PM
Carcano, anyone..?


gp911

Inner Monkey
May 9, 2006, 08:29 PM
Sadly I think the 10mm is short for this world.

Shootcraps
May 9, 2006, 09:57 PM
Sadly I think the 10mm is short for this world.

Save your tears. People have been saying that for almost 20 years and it ain't happened yet. We have more guns and more ammo today than ever before for The Ten.

Shootcraps
May 9, 2006, 10:00 PM
The .45 GAP isn't going away anytime soon. It's been picked up by three manufacturers in 4 pistols. Glock, Springfield (in both 1911 and XD) and now Para either are or have offered it. I expect you will see at least one, possibly two other manufacturers offer micro sized pistols in it in the next 2 years.

You're a little late. Springfield announced at the Shot Show that they were putting the 1911 45Gap project on the back burner indefinitely.

You can't micro size it more than any of the current 45ACPs because it's still the same width.

Eleven Mike
May 9, 2006, 10:04 PM
I think the next cartridges to go obsolete will be .30-06, .30-30, .223 Remington, .308 Winchester, 7.62 x 39, .22 LR, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 9x19, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

Oh, yeah, and 12 and 20 guage. Those are getting pretty scarce.

Offwhite
May 10, 2006, 05:10 PM
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it (I'm at work so there's not a lot of time to read through everything) but the .45 GAP. Springfield has stopped making the guns cambered in it...thats all I need to know.

panzermk2
May 10, 2006, 05:25 PM
Taurus just launched a hole line of new 10mm wheel guns.
“Reports of My Demise Are Greatly Exaggerated”.

lbmii
May 14, 2006, 01:17 AM
A 10 mm revolver sounds interesting. I wonder if you could fire the 40 s&w in it as well. I looked on the Taurus web site and I cannot find it.

Do you have a site for it?

grendelbane
May 14, 2006, 04:29 AM
The 357 SIG is not going away any time soon. There are several good reasons for this. The number one reason is that there are many guns out there chambered for 357 SIG, or capable of being chambered for 357 SIG with a simple barrel change.

The number 2 reason is common availability of components. The 357 SIG can be loaded with many, (but not all), 9mm bullets. The brass is similar to .40 S&W, so it is simple for manufacturers to keep it in production.

You may not like this cartridge, and may see no possible need for it. Enough others disagree with you to keep it on the market as long as conventional pistol ammunition is used.

For similar reasons, even the 9x23mm Winchester is going to be around a long, long, long time.

aerod1
May 14, 2006, 02:26 PM
I don't think the 500 S&W magnum will ever be a big seller.

Blacklabman
May 14, 2006, 03:22 PM
The 10mm seems to be growing in popularity. Atleast on the local scene.
It's the most versatile caliber, you are going to find in a semiauto. Many people with baby hands, who at one time complained about grip size, have figured out that this is the 21st Century. Grip reductions, are day surgery now.
The 10mm and .357Sig will be with us for sometime to come.
The .45GAP, I'm not so sure about.

Zak Smith
May 14, 2006, 08:12 PM
re: 260 REM

Many "practical" long range bolt rifles are being built in this caliber now. Based on the 308 case, it is compatible with the reliable detachable box magazines and works fine in short actions. For the 308 case, it has a small enough bore area to drive high BC ( > 0.60 ) bullets at good velocity. Neither 7-08 nor 308 can do that. In the short action and without going to the WSMs, nothing else is close except the 243 WIN shooting 115gr VLD bullets (which is a barrel burner).

-z

kastiron
September 12, 2006, 12:12 PM
For a first post, I had never thought to find myself in any sort of a claiber debate, but I would like to be the first to defend the .17mach 2. (17hm2)

I will grant that the 17hmr is great for splattering varmints out to 200 yards, but the 17hm2 gets my nod for the caliber of choice for those of us that actually want to eat the small critters we chase with rimfires..

Last year I bought a CZ452 Varmint chambered in the 17hm2 and after sighting it in I had high hopes for it. My first hunt with it proved successful as I encountered a cottaintail at about 90 yards. Much to the surprise of myself and Mr. Bunny, one headshot and a flop was the result. A 17hmr would have made minced meat out of my supper at that range, where the 17hm2 seemed to be "just enough".

Since then, my 22lr's are either safe queens or see range use only.

I see these kinds of threads a lot over on RFC.com, and hope that the mighty midget .17hm2 will be around a long while. Just in case though, I have a stash of way more than expect to ever need hunting.


As far as my thoughts on what might be left aside next, personally my .204 if it doesn't start to impress me soon.. :)

Manedwolf
September 12, 2006, 02:31 PM
You also posted to a thread dead since May. ;)

If you find something via search, always good to check the date of last posting before replying. Prevents gravedigging.

CB900F
September 12, 2006, 03:12 PM
Fella's;

I don't know, this is probably going to be more of a stillborn than obsolete cartridge: .338 Federal.

900F

Axman
September 12, 2006, 03:39 PM
A shooting buddy of mine has a 1876 Maastricht that is chambered for 11.3x50. He can still find cartridges for the rifle but they are around $5 or more per cartridge and they aren't available everywhere. None can be found locally. May as well be obsolete if they are that scarce.

Phil DeGraves
September 12, 2006, 04:17 PM
The 38 S&W will hang on just because there are so many guns out there that chamber it. All those Webleys, Enfields and pocket pistols that the Cowboy Shooters like. The .45 GAP is the real squib here.

Prince Yamato
September 12, 2006, 08:39 PM
How about .222? It seems largely to have been eclipsed by .223, at least in the US.

Yep. I thought of this too. Also .224, which is seen even less. .45 GAP (why do they even make this?) .17- all of them. I'd say MAYBE 5.45 x 39, because its lack of availablity and it's difficult to come by, which makes all but the die-hard opt for either 7.62 x 39 or .223. I do like the bake-lite mags though. I don't think these calibers will be gone for good, but they'll probably become obscure, like my 8x56 Mauser.

kastiron
September 12, 2006, 08:46 PM
Aw.. Nuts!!! First post on a new forum and I fall victim to the search feature!!

Sorry about that.

Newbie hat on sitting in the corner..

doggscube
September 12, 2006, 09:51 PM
Welcome to the forum.

-Jeff

pv74
September 13, 2006, 12:03 AM
Remington's Etronix..

Rifles that fire ammo with electrically opperated primers...

Remington has done a piss poor job of marketing a good idea.

Lock time is almost instant with this system..and the primers are standard size..remington sells the primers so you can load your own shells...


As for the rest of the stuff..if you can somehow make brass for it, you can shoot most any gun ever made. I have even heard of people making pinfire ammo (don't ask me how).

Manufacturers even make guns chambered in obsolete rounds...

Repo 1876 Winchesters are chambered in 45-60 (LONG obsolete, I load this round for my original '76)

Repro Spencer rifles have hit the market chambered 56-50 Spencer...

Reloading obsolete cartridges is all part of the fun...and a very good history lesson:)

default
September 13, 2006, 12:06 AM
Well, since the thread is revived, and it's an interesting topic, here's my view. We should make a distinction between "obsolete", "allegedly dead or dying", and "(arguably) pointless". Some examples, with which you may strenuously disagree:

Obsolete: Archaic, rare, and in competition with sometimes equally old but ballistically comparable or superior yet easily obtainable ammunition chambered by numerous guns: 8mm Nambu, 6.5 Carcano, .30 Luger. Primarily for collectors, historians, and people who like neat old stuff generally.

Allegedly dead or dying: .357sig, .303 British, 10mm, .41 Magnum, 9x18 Makarov, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser), .44 Special, and plenty of other great calibers that are likely to be around for a while.

(Arguably) pointless: .45GAP, 5.7x28, 4.6x30. Nothing wrong with them per se, they may well fit a certain niche, but what do they do, really, that isn't essentially done as well by other, cheaper, easier to find calibers with an associated wide array of firearms to shoot them through?

lionking
September 13, 2006, 12:08 AM
the top 2 firearms I want to purchase in the future are a M1A(M14) and a Grizzly .45 magnum.

Im sad to say that the .45magnum is not around much anymore though,7 rounds thru a 1911 style auto is sweet to me though,fired a Grizzly a few times and its on my mind.

Ohen Cepel
September 13, 2006, 12:25 AM
I vote for 6.8SPC, of course, I've been wrong before.

Crosshair
September 13, 2006, 01:47 AM
The 38 S&W will hang on just because there are so many guns out there that chamber it.
Yup, I handload 38 S&W. A handy little round and would still be very good in compact revolvers due to it's low operating pressure and shorter OAL. Sure it's no 45 Auto, but it would make a nice consealable gun.

GW
September 13, 2006, 02:08 AM
50 AE
only 1 gun ever made for it(Desert Eagle IIRC) and other than ridiculous movies, The gun is nowhere to be seen

akodo
September 13, 2006, 09:32 PM
boy, lots of rounds I haven't thought about for quite a while. I remember when the .356TSW was the 'up and comer' but it didnt' stick well, and we just later on got the 357 sig. Of course, before the 356 was the 38 super, so.

I do want to point out that while some old great warhorses will go on and on and on (44 special, 38 S&W, 250-3000, 257 robers, etc) these are all rounds that were at one time very popular, and had a lot of guns made. Other rounds like the .356 TSW and I think the .45 GAP just never got their nose far enough under the tent, and will soon be gone.


Now, for a bit of arguing. I can uderstand the short mags and the supershort mags going. They did nothing new, just supposedly had the possiblity of being in very short action rifles (of course, these short action rifle actions weren't as short as they should have been for the most part).

But the remington ultra mags? I believe there are ALWAYS people who look at numbers, see very high velocity and very high energy, and think it is the best...and while there are some others up there just as fast if not faster, the UMs remington puts out are the least expensive of the UMs. I know a couple of guys who bought them who would have been just fine with a 30-06, or hell, a 243, but numbers man numbers....and that theoretical elk hunt 'someday' always justifies many a rifle purchase

but who am I to talk, I got a 7mm rem mag here in MN, where a 243 would do me just fine too

edit to add, I don't think the hornet has any worry about it. It many ways it is the flip side of the .17hrm. Yes there are a lot of .22 centerfires out there, but the hornet really holds its place as the smallest lightest one. There used to be others like it that have gone to the dustbin of history, but I think hornet will continute to hold steady. Now, I can definately see the .223 pushing the last hangers on in the mid speed 22 centerfire catagory. .222 will probably hold on too just becasue of it's reputation as being extremely accurate, even though the price difference and availablity to me make the 223 the much clearer choice.

nitesite
September 13, 2006, 10:07 PM
A shooting buddy of mine has a 1876 Maastricht that is chambered for 11.3x50. He can still find cartridges for the rifle but they are around $5 or more per cartridge and they aren't available everywhere. None can be found locally. May as well be obsolete if they are that scarce.

At these prices for reloading dies, I myself would retire it right damn now...

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?category_selector=all_products&search_keywords=11.3&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=14&Click+to+Begin+Search.y=15

Modern firearms considered, I'm going with the .45GAP and the silly "5mm-whatever" 5.7x28mm FN pistol cartridge.

gezzer
September 13, 2006, 10:14 PM
The Winchester Super Short Magnums.

Bingo!

RooK
September 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
GW, the .50AE was chambered in the Automag V and LAR Grizzly as well. Probably more guns, but they allude me at the moment. The DE is the only one in current production. It won't be going away though, those movies keep it going and selling, despite what is reasonable or logical.

I can't believe so many people listed the 10mm. It won't die anytime soon due to the cult followes like myself. Even in recent years, smaller ammo manufacturers have brought it back to its former glory with spec ammo. Thanks to Dan Wesson, 1911s are once again being chambered for it. It won't surprise me if more join. As for the 'bulk of the gun' excuse, it fits in guns chambered for the .45acp; since when has that ever kept a .45 from selling?

rnovi
September 14, 2006, 12:34 AM
the top 2 firearms I want to purchase in the future are a M1A(M14) and a Grizzly .45 magnum.

Im sad to say that the .45magnum is not around much anymore though,7 rounds thru a 1911 style auto is sweet to me though,fired a Grizzly a few times and its on my mind.

I have an LAR Grizzly in .45 WinMag - hardchromed 6.5" bbl. Truly a sweet shooter.

But, the 45 WinMag is pretty much dead. Just never really had a reason to exist.

Nematocyst
September 14, 2006, 12:46 AM
Nice to see no one has mentioned 7mm08 yet, cause I'm still thinking of buying a rifle in that caliber.

7mm mag was mentioned, but not 7mm08.

I wish I could replace every .308 in the world with a 7mm08. Life would be good.

But at least 7mm08 is not on the short list, so life is still good.

lionking
September 14, 2006, 01:44 AM
I use to see Weatherby rifle ads,they were considered a top notch made rifle with exotic calibers but I havent seen or followed Weatherby for a long time so I'd say the Weatherby cartridges would be considered faded away....no?

Then again I dont hunt big game or travel to Africa so I dont know if Weatherby calibers are still used for game hunting often.

KD5NRH
September 14, 2006, 06:33 AM
What we need to do is get rid of the silly versions so the shelf space at the gunshops can be properly used with a better variety of .17Remington and .45ACP.

I wouldn't mind seeing a 10mm revival either. Especially if it gets a 10mm XD onto the market, and maybe a 10mm carbine. Bonus points if it uses the same mags.

Ash
September 26, 2006, 01:20 PM
As the 7.62x54R is still chambered in currently manufactured sniper rifles and is the round of choice for currently manufactured general purpose machine guns, it is not dying in the least. Indeed, in belt fed firearms, the 7.62x54R is superior to the 7.62 NATO and will be around until the advent of laser rifles.

Ash

GungHo
September 26, 2006, 05:16 PM
I don't see the .45 GAP as having much of a life.

I wish the 7.62x28 Tokarev were bigger in the US. It's the round that the 5.7x28 wants to be.

I'm not convinced of the longevity of .500 S&W. The .460XVR as a "hypervelocity" handgun hunting round, I can see. But, the .500 is kinda like the 50 AE. Its niche is irritating people in the adjacent lanes.

The other fantastic round to go away is the .38 Super
It's "died" many times. It's still real popular in Mexico and South America, and thus you can see a lot of it near the border.

357 Sig maybe
As long as it's still standard issue for several large LEOs, I don't see it falling by the wayside quickly. It's very easy to find here. However, in some areas, it's hen's teeth. Not a bad round, but it fills a very narrow niche. I have a drop-in barrel for a SIG 229, but once I shoot up all my ammo, I probably will "retire" it and stick with .40s for the remaining life of the gun.

The excellent combat round that should have been but never was; the 6.8mm
It would have a chance if

There was a rifle built around the round
That rifle was widely issued
The other countries in NATO like the round


As long as it's "just another upper", it's going to continue to be a boutique round. There's no niche being filled beyond "I want a .243 that fits in a AR-15" Same for the 6.5 Grendel and all the other "I bought an AR and someone convinced me that .223 was for poodles" rounds. Just buy a darn M1A, AR-10, or FN-FAL and be done with it.

Possible the 30-06 even, as I suspect sales of .308 are currently much higher than 30-06. But, again, we're talking a LONG time before it goes away, or become unpopular.
A couple of generations will need to die off before that becomes a possibility. There's just too many rifles with it, and there's just too many things you can do with it for hunters or reloaders to abandon the cartridge. Now, if it were invented today, with a .308 and a .300 WIN MAG around? It wouldn't have a chance. However, it's the cartridge that Won the War, and it's good for anything on this side of the world.... it's got legs.

I wish that 7.62x39mm and the 5.45x39mm are the next rounds on the way to out being replaced by wide spread acceptance for the .223 and .308. Think of the possabilities, no more AKs
They make AKs in .223 and .308 already. Not general issue to troops, but to sell to folks who cleave to NATO.

Shouldn't the GAP stick around just because it is made to fit in a 9mm or .40 cal frame? Seems a lot of pistol makers would find it easier to make a GAP than an ACP.
That was the originating thought... "people want big holes and small pistols." In a lot of ways, the 9mm/.40 markets are a little different than the .45. It looks good on paper to make a .45 that fits in a 9/40 pistol, but you're basically asking someone to get accept less capacity for the same power out of a hot .40. All you get is a bigger hole, which is good in some respects... however, the .45 shooters I know want a big hole with a lot of power behind it. They've already made the trade off. If they wanted a 9/40 pistol, they'd have gotten a 9/40 pistol. Instead, they got a .45 ACP, and they're fine with it. Especially if they got a 1911.

I also don't see why you would go from a 9/40 to a .45 GAP. You've already decided that capacity is an issue to you.

What I like are the rounds that "came back" like the .45-70.

AJAX22
September 26, 2006, 10:46 PM
*sigh* don't rip on me for this, but my vote for cartridge thats headed for obsolesence is .32 short rimfire.

It's farther down that slippery slope than most of the other ones that I know of.

even .41 rimfire has currently produced rounds.

I know of no current manufacture for the little .32 short rimfire

which is a shame really, I have a young american bulldog that was my first pistol. She's a cuttie, extremly well made, she's never misfired or jammed on me and she fits anywhere.

Its a five shot gun that I have three bullets left for it.

So to me this cartridge is circling the drain.

Essex County
September 27, 2006, 03:12 PM
That may seem absurd, but think of all the nice model 99 Savages in .303 gathering dust in the back of closets. I never thought that would come to pass. Scincerely, Essex

EddieCoyle
September 27, 2006, 04:04 PM
When is a cartridge truly obsolete? When gun makers stop producing guns in the chambering? When ammo makers stop making loaded rounds? When you can't get brass anymore?

A few posts above, AJAX22 mentioned the .32 short rimfire. OK, that's obsolete - even if you wanted to, you couldn't reload it (short of making your own brass and primer compound).

I have a older (70's) friend that has a very nice Martini Henry carbine on his wall. It was a family gun, passed down through the generations. He remarked that he'd like to shoot it someday (which surprised me because he's an "anti").

I looked into getting brass, a bullet mold, and dies for the .577-450. I'm figuring it'll cost over $10 per round by the time I'm done; more if I only load a few rounds. Would you consider this an obsolete round?

Polishrifleman
September 27, 2006, 05:46 PM
Anything to deal with Weatherby is alive and well because they already charge a boatload for their ammo, it has to be a money maker even on an smaller economy of scale, this would include the .450 Marlin, and now anything to do with leverution calibers.

Do to the major changes at Winchester I would have to go with the WSSM's.

Bruce H
September 27, 2006, 08:49 PM
Since I shoot 45//70 and 300WSM mostly and my wife shoots 260 Rem. and 10mm we are doomed.

Glock_10mm
November 13, 2006, 10:26 PM
I'm gonna catch flack on this I know, but I feel the .223 is going to face a huge decline in the near future. It not going to ever die, but as the military goes back to the M14 and more and more rifles are being chambered in the .308 caliber or the many new magnums, the general population is moving back to the high power realm - no matter which caliber, just like the rebirth of the big blocks rolling out of motor city. I feel the 223 has had its day in the sun.

As for truly dying/dead calibers...the .357max is just about there, which is a shame given its compatibility with 38spl and 357mag, as well as use as both a pistol and mid size game rifle cartridge.

I think the 10mm camp is growing, so dont count us out yet!

gp911
November 13, 2006, 10:52 PM
A couple guys mentioned .50AE and what guns it was chambered in.

It was also available in the Freedom Arms Model 83 (same revolver that is still available in many calibers, but most famously in .454 Casull).

Ohhh, how I want a Model 83 in .500 Wyoming Express. Possibly a future dead caliber, but the jury is still out.


gp911

earplug
November 13, 2006, 11:29 PM
Been surpassed by .32 ACP and .380.
Havent seen a little Baby Browning/Colt at the range in years.

kd7nqb
November 14, 2006, 12:07 AM
Here is how I view it, people know about certain calibers as they learn more about guns.

.45acp
.357
.38
9mm

Everyone even none gun people know about these and they will never go anywhere

.17
10mm
.40
.32
.25
most gun people know about these



the list goes on with many more tiers and I dont feel confident enough to post any farther because that where my knowledge gets flaky. But the way I view it the bottom tier would be cut first. Also let me ask it this way which calibers are a pain to find now.

gulogulo1970
November 14, 2006, 01:36 AM
357 SIG, it is the 10mm of the 21st century. It will hang around but the 10mm seems to have more utility. I think the 10mm will out live the SIG, given time.

Curare
November 14, 2006, 04:15 PM
I'm gonna catch flack on this I know, but I feel the .223 is going to face a huge decline in the near future. It not going to ever die, but as the military goes back to the M14 and more and more rifles are being chambered in the .308 caliber or the many new magnums, the general population is moving back to the high power realm - no matter which caliber, just like the rebirth of the big blocks rolling out of motor city. I feel the 223 has had its day in the sun.


I couldn't disagree with you more. 5.56mm is the NATO round. Also, more and more, Kalashnikovs are also being chambered in 5.56.

5.56mm also dominates Service Rifle. The accuracy is very good, and load development continues. Take a look at Mk 262.

Detroit has not learned from its mistakes.

Barr
November 14, 2006, 07:30 PM
I will not say a whole lot about common cartridges such as .40, .45 ACP, .270 Win, and 30-06 etc. They are here to stay for many years.

First, the specialty type cartridges that will not go anywhere anytime soon:

.32 Auto - One of the most popular autoloading cartridges during the early 20th. John Browning based many of his early designs on this cartridge. The Keltec P32 has given a lot of new life to this cartridge. Very popular in pocket sized pistols.
.38 Super - One of the favorites in IPSC. Performance wise, it is similar to a .40 but more exotic.
10mm - Originally designed as a police auto-loading cartridge specifically for the FBI, the cartridge was found to have too much power and penetration. This cartridge has found a home with hunters wanting an auto-loading cartridge.
.41 Magnum - A cartridge that has a following among hunters mostly. Originally designed as a police revolver cartridge (soung like the 10mm or .40?), it did not catch on as well as hoped because like it was said above, the guns tended to be very large for everyday wear and the penetration could be excessive in an urban environment. It is also hard to find reduced power loads unless you reload for this cartridge.
.44-40 - Very popular with cowboy action shooters. One of the biggest selling points of this cartridge when it came out in the 19th century and still is, it can be used in both rifles and revolvers.
.44 Special - With cowboy action shooting and the various smaller frame revolvers this cartridge has a new lease on life.
.454 Cassull - A cartridge that does not do much more than the .44 Magnum already does at half the cost. The .454 delivers 150% more energy at the muzzle than the .44 Magnum does already etc., it does not make the deer or grizzly any "deader". Just a neat cartridge with a lot of power that you do not find ammo for at many stores. Mostly a handloader's proposition. Most people probably shoot more .45 Colt through it than full power ammo.
.500 S&W - Lots of power and on top of the roost for pistols. Lots of good publicity and marketing hype make it much like the SW Model 29 when they first came out. Hard to come by but when you do the prices are high and it is cool to say you own one. They are starting to become easier to find once some of the less-stout hearted try them. I have shot one and it was bearable but I just like my .44 Magnum too much.

The cartridges that are dying a stagnant death:

.25 ACP - Very popular back in the first and even second half of the century for pocket pistols. Originally designed for more reliable feeding in semi-autos. About the same power as a .22 Long Rifle but much more expensive. Not many people shoot it because of the cost of buying ammo and because it is such small and almost dinky size case, not many people load it because it is such a hassle. With pistols such as the American Derringer, Keltec P9, P32, P3AT, and the various Seecamp pistols chambered in everything from the .32 ACP all the way up to 9mm and .40 there are much better alternatives for caliber and size now in small pistols.
.32 Magnum - Most people outside of the shooting world have not heard of this cartridge. Cowboy action shooting has given a little bit of life to this cartridge but not many people shoot it. A .38 Special has more power in the same size platform with little more recoil. For recoil sensitive shooters, the .38 Special can be safely downloaded to the same level and guns are much easier to find in .38 Special than .32 Magnum.
.357 Maximum - Cartridge to hit like a .41 or .44 Magnum but in a .357 diameter bullet. This cartridge was mostly intended for use in Silhouette competition. This cartridge tends to severely eat through the forcing cones and topstraps of revolvers because of the high pressures and temperatures.
.357 Sig - Neat cartridge but the cost of ammo is so high. It does not do anything better than the .40 or .357 Magnum does except maybe marginally better on penetration depending on loading. Because it is a bottle neck cartridge like the 7.25x18mm Russian, not many handloaders want to fool with it unless they are dedicated to the cartridge or really love their gun that it is chambered in.
Winchester Short and Super Short Magnums - Similar to 7mm STW, they are marginally more effective than the cartridges they are designed to replicate. Example, the .270 WSM is supposed to hit like a .30-06 class cartridge in a .277 sized bullet. The 7mm Remington Magnum already does just that. Price of ammo is usually high.
7mm STW - Ultra long range flat shooting cartridge that goes through powder and barrels like a blowtorch. Very inefficient cartridge for the amount of powder burned. Catridges like the .300 Winchester Magnum do not shoot as flat, but are just as effective and the life of the gun (namely barrel) is dramatically increased. The cost of ammo if you can find it, is dramatically high.
8mm Remington Magnum - It has spawned off several take-offs such as the 7mm STW. Another one of those cartridges where one company tried to better the other company's cartridge. In this case, the Remington 8mm tried to cut in on Winchesters' .300 Magnum and .338 Magnum.
.338 Federal - About the same as the 8mm Remington Magnum. Right cartridge, but about 1-2 decades too late.
.44 Auto-mag - This cartridge was supposed to have the performance of a .44 Magnum, but be rimless for feeding in an auto-loading pistol. Cost of ammo and scarcity of pistols made this round die rather quickly.
.460 XVR - About the same as the .454 Cassull with a little more power but same problems. Scarce availability and even higher prices for ammo. Can shoot .454 and .45 Colt in it.
.480 Ruger - Nice concept, but it does nothing that a hotly loaded .454 or a downloaded .500 will not do just as well.

pharmer
November 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
.22 long. When was the last time you saw an actual box? Gotta be at least 25 years for me. Joe

mohican
November 15, 2006, 06:26 PM
a lot of the Winchest short mags and super short mags may become obsolete without new rifles to shoot them in, although I like the 300 WSM in theory

Those bemoaning the death of the 41 mag, it will be kept alive, at least in a small way by handgun hunters and reloaders as it has been for years. You can figure that Ruger will always make a single action and Smith will always make a double action 41 mag.

Justin
November 15, 2006, 07:13 PM
.22 long. When was the last time you saw an actual box? Gotta be at least 25 years for me. Joe

I mistakenly bought a box of CCI .22 Long that got mixed in with a bunch of .22 LR about two years ago. Still have the ammo around somewhere.

.45 AUTO
December 23, 2006, 03:46 AM
.44 Special is one of them. It is basically made obsolete by the .45 Colt, simular ballistics.

GW
December 23, 2006, 05:09 AM
.44 Special is one of them. It is basically made obsolete by the .45 Colt, simular ballistics.

That will never happen as long as the 44 magnum is popular.

Cousin Mike
December 23, 2006, 08:40 AM
You folks who think .357SIG is going anywhere are only kidding yourselves. ;)

Fu-man Shoe
December 23, 2006, 09:49 AM
I'm gonna catch flack on this I know, but I feel the .223 is going to
face a huge decline in the near future.

Quite to the contrary, my good man, I believe that the 5.56/.223 will only
continue to rise in popularity, contrasting the (already in decline) eventual
fading away of the large .30 caliber cartridges so many of us love, such
as the mighty .308.

Now, mind you I am not trumpeting the death of .308. Far from it.

But you must look at greater societal trends, such as the increased
urbanization of America, and the lack of a good open place to shoot.

Increasingly, more and more ranges in this country are indoor 25 meter only.
This happens to be a great place to shoot an AR-15...much less so an M1A.

Increasingly, your typical environment is city, suburb and exurb. It seems
'the sticks' are rapidly vanishing. With hypothetical engagement distances
decreasing, and overpenetration, etc.. becoming an important concern,
it seems that weapons firing the small, fast bullets are rapidly becoming
'the thing to have'.

Also, you have to credit the fact that 5.56 caliber weapons, such as
the various incarnations of the AR-15, are very forgiving.

This is not your Daddy's M-16.

Modern AR series rifles are very reliable and easy to use,
and what's more, they are easy to hit with. Plus, the ammo is cheap and
readily available.

...

The following is purely anecdotal, so take it how you will.

Among many of the people I meet at the range who are my age and a little
older, (mid 20's to mid 40's) the common thread among us is the ownership
of guns for personal protection, and the enjoyment of shooting. Hunting has
little to do with anything. You have one season (late summer) when all the
deer hunters come and sight in thier .300 Remchesterbys, but that's it.
I live in an urban area of Virginia. The vast majority of shooters here are
not hunters.

What does that mean? A lot of things I suppose. But the thing that I notice
is that "carbine" class weapons are by far and away the most popular. The
much vaunted "Main Battle Rifle" is few and far between.

Take that how you will, but I don't think that 5.56/.223 is going anywhere.

Fu-man Shoe

doubleg
December 23, 2006, 09:58 AM
.45 GAP

mohican
December 23, 2006, 12:51 PM
Going Obsolete?

The Winchester short mags except maybe the 300. It fills a need (maybe not) Without the american made line of rifles, the others will die a slow death.

The Remington ultra and short ultra mags are also candidates

The odd thing to me is that at least one of the AR platforms uses the 300 rem short mag instead of the Winchester 300 short mag. But the market for magnum level cartridges in a semi auto platform is limited.

The 480 Ruger will live on like the 41 mag. It is a handloaders niche cartridge. It fills a gap between 44 mag and 454 Casull. As long as there is brass, handgun hunters will load the 41 mag and 480 ruger.

Lonestar.45
December 23, 2006, 01:27 PM
The .45 Bushmaster.

Yes, I realize it has not even come out yet, but it will be obsolete so fast it'll make your head spin.

When you only have one manufacturer making a proprietary round for a rather specialized gun type......spells doom. And we already have the .50 Beowulf (which is probably close to extinction as well), and several others already out there in this class.

I'd say second runner up is the .32NAA. For the same reasons stated above.

rangerruck
December 23, 2006, 01:49 PM
30/40 krag.

lonewolfalpha
December 23, 2006, 02:21 PM
Okay first off all of you guys that are saying that there are no rifles going to be chambered in the Winchester Short magnums clearly haven't looked at Browning lately. Remember them? They are still selling several rifles in these chamberings both lever and bolt (I didn't check the semi auto's or the pumps).
As for the .303 British being dead there is still a lot of high quality factory ammo available from all the major makers, I know because I just bought three boxes of Federal 180 grain soft point loaded with Speer hot core bullets for my old Parker Hale/Lee Enfield bush gun.
The 30-30 is also going nowhere soon, I know a lot of guys up here that still swear by them.
The .303 Savage? Sadly amo is drying up fast, I saw four Savage Model 99's at the last gun show I was at but no one could or would get cartridges for them.
The 7.62x54R Russian? Going hard according to the ammo availability that I've seen, even Winchester is still loading it although I am uncertain if thier softpoint is still available. Again prices are the same as .308, just like for the .303 British.
That said, even the .444 Marlin is going strong except most of the guys that I know who shoot this one handload it.
So which cartridge is soon to die next? That's a tough one so how about 8x56R unless you live in Europe?

Reginhild
December 26, 2006, 08:44 PM
Here's my picks:

GOING...GOING....GONE:
.45 GAP
.45 Bushmaster (other big bores have lead in AR platform)

Mentioned by others but I think HERE to STAY:
6.8 SPC
6.5 Grendel
why? the AR-15 platform is very popular and these two make good medium game hunting rounds. Additionally, the 6.5 Grendel is a great long range shooter (target or hunting) that outdoes the 5.56 at all ranges and outdoes the .308 at really long range.

SniperStraz
December 26, 2006, 08:47 PM
...The .22 long is about to get its butt kicked by the .17.

Thumper5
December 26, 2006, 09:21 PM
The .25 ACP and .32 ACP are ready for the trash heap with the introduction of tiny, high-quality practical pocket pistols (like the Kel Tec) in .380. Why would anyone buy a gun in .25/.32 today?

lonewolfalpha
December 27, 2006, 12:21 PM
Here's one that is going and gone, the .280 Ross. Has anyone else here even heard of it? It pretty much shot 7mm Remington Magnum velocity about fourty years before the magnum in the old Ross straight pull rifles but with a bullet in between .308 and .284.

Manedwolf
December 27, 2006, 12:44 PM
The .25 ACP and .32 ACP are ready for the trash heap with the introduction of tiny, high-quality practical pocket pistols (like the Kel Tec) in .380. Why would anyone buy a gun in .25/.32 today?

Nope. Speer makes Gold Dot in both. Winchester just came out with an Expanding Point. Hornady makes ammo for both. S&B sells a lot of 6.35 Browning.

They're not going away anytime soon.

BTW, caliber aside, the Beretta Jetfire in .25 is still a better, more reliable gun than the KelTec in .380. Depends on what your priority is.

XDKingslayer
December 27, 2006, 01:37 PM
This is funny...

For over 7 months people have been pontificating about .45GAP going away, yet here I am, still buying over 100 rounds of it a week without fail. Speer, Winchester, Remington, Federal, you name it.

If the Springfield EMP continues to take off in 9mm you can rest assured that it will be chambered for .45GAP. If that breaths a little more life into that round, then it will continue to live and other that also make small scale 1911 model pistols will have to chamber theirs for the GAP also simply to compete with SA.

The .17 isn't going anywhere either. Many companies are still making rifles chambered for it. It's easier to get a rifle in .17 than it is a pistol in .45GAP. It's foolish to think the .17 is going anywhere.

As a matter of fact, the only round seeming to have actually started to die out since this thread began is the 5.7.

Manedwolf
December 27, 2006, 02:28 PM
For over 7 months people have been pontificating about .45GAP going away, yet here I am, still buying over 100 rounds of it a week without fail. Speer, Winchester, Remington, Federal, you name it.

Though everyone I know refers to it as the .45 Squib, or "Gaston's Ego Trip"... :D

Skywarp
December 27, 2006, 02:31 PM
Having worked in a range and a gun store I can tell you the 357Sig is here to stay.


The last week I worked in the range I was able to scrounge over 1000 rounds of brass up.


Several PD's have switched to the 357Sig not to mention the major federal agencies using it. We always had ammo, walmart has ammo and it's getting cheaper. Some places locally it's just a little more that 45ACP, which isn't bad. If you go online it can be cheaper.

The internet is amazing, no longer do you have to go deal with little mom and pop shops who only deal in 45ACP because it's "God's cartridge". Ammo is cheap online and helps keep cartridges like 357SIG and 10mm in the limelight.

Aside from that, there are alot of offerings in 357SIG.
Glock (3 models)
Sig (4 models)
HK (2 models)
Beretta (1 model)
S&W (1 model)
Taurus (1 model/ maybe more)
Springfield (3 models)
Proably more.

XDKingslayer
December 27, 2006, 02:44 PM
Though everyone I know refers to it as the .45 Squib, or "Gaston's Ego Trip"...

I've heard it called a lot of things. Most of them shut up when they actually look at the correct data and/or shoot it.

Aside from that, there are alot of offerings in 357SIG.

SA offers the XD in 3 models chambered for .357SIG. I also wouldn't be suprised if the EMP is also chambered for it in the future.

Fu-man Shoe
December 27, 2006, 04:20 PM
Sadly, I think the .357 Maximum is an obsolete caliber.

It's too bad, because I kind of really want one. I already load
.38/.357, what's one more length, you know?

It seems there are very few guns chambered in .357 Max,
no factory ammo, and Remington is the only maker that
brass is available from..

.357 Maximum, I hardly knew thee, yet mourn your passing. :(

Warbow
December 27, 2006, 06:25 PM
I'm gonna catch flack on this I know, but I feel the .223 is going to face a huge decline in the near future. It not going to ever die, but as the military goes back to the M14 and more and more rifles are being chambered in the .308 caliber or the many new magnums, the general population is moving back to the high power realm - no matter which caliber, just like the rebirth of the big blocks rolling out of motor city. I feel the 223 has had its day in the sun.

I'll make a friendly wager with you that this won't happen within the next 10 years.

Shootcraps
December 27, 2006, 07:19 PM
I'll take a piece of that ^^^^^ action. :)

Eleven Mike
December 28, 2006, 12:55 AM
I'm gonna catch flack on this I know, but I feel the .223 is going to face a huge decline in the near future. It not going to ever die, but as the military goes back to the M14 Hold it right there, and let's define our terms. How do you mean the military is going back to the M14?

Stevie-Ray
December 28, 2006, 01:23 AM
Save your tears. People have been saying that for almost 20 years and it ain't happened yet. We have more guns and more ammo today than ever before for The Ten.+1. When I bought my 10 there was exactly 1 gun made for it and only about 3 loadings for it. Now there are many guns and a bunch of loadings. I'm about to buy another, directly.:D

Stevie-Ray
December 28, 2006, 01:27 AM
but I feel the .223 is going to face a huge decline in the near future. It not going to ever die, but as the military goes back to the M14 and more and more rifles are being chambered in the .308 caliber I've heard the new rifle round is going to .27 caliber.

rhubarb
December 28, 2006, 08:45 AM
Let's see what calibers have been mentioned in this thread:

.204 Ruger
.22 long
.22 shorts
.222 Remington
.223 .
.224 .
.225 Winchester
.22mag
.25 ACP
.250 Savage
.250-3000
.257 Roberts
.25ACP
.260 remington
.270 .
.30 carbine
.30 Luger
.300 Norma Mag
.300 Savage
.30-06
.303 savage
.30-40 Krag
.307 Win
.32 Long
.32 Magnum
.32 NAA
.32-20
.32ACP
.35 Remington
.35 WSM
.356 TSW
.357 Maximum
.376 Steyr
.38 Casull
.38 S&W
.38 Super
.380 ACP
.400 CorBon
.41 Long Colt
.41 Magnum
.44 Auto-mag
.44 Special
.444 Marlin
.45 Bushmaster
.45 GAP
.45 Super
.45 WinMag
.450 Marlin
.45-60
.460 Roland
.460 XVR
.475 Wildey
.480 Ruger
.480 Ruger
.50 AE
.50 GI
.50 Special
10mm
11.3x50
16ga
4.6x30
5.5mm Velo Dog
5.7X28mm
6..6 grendel
6.5 Carcano
6.8mm
6.8SPC
7.62 x 25
7.62x54R
7mm STW
8mm Mauser
8mm Nambu
8mm Rem Mag
9mm Luger
9x18 Makarov
Remington Ultra mags
Winchester Super Short Magnums

Glad to see there's consensus on this issue.:rolleyes:

loadedround
December 28, 2006, 10:45 AM
Jim Mcloud in the 2nd post mentions the 10mm as becoming obsolete, and he is right to a certain extent. Most 10mm owners and shooters(like me) are reloaders. I have never bought factory ammo for my Colt Delta Elite, except whem my pistol was new and didn't have dies or components. I now have accumlulated over 3,000 new or once fired cases for my 10mm, and have loaded at least 10 or 12 boxes of ammo with both lead and jacketed bullets. The 10 mm was and still is a handloader's dream cartridge. Who needs factory ammo?

GW
December 28, 2006, 06:19 PM
What I find interesting in rhubarb's list is what is NOT mentioned.
45 ACP
44 magnum
9mm
40 S&W
308
7.62x39

Brad Johnson
December 28, 2006, 06:40 PM
I predict that the next obsolete caliber will be whatever I have the most guns chambered for. That seems to be my luck.

Brad

tomhorn
December 28, 2006, 07:24 PM
38 super is big in ole mexico

tomhorn
December 28, 2006, 07:28 PM
the 307 and the 356 marlin

ajax
December 28, 2006, 08:27 PM
Skywarp I was wondering how you knew that the .45acp was gods cartridge.:neener:

Burddog
December 28, 2006, 10:44 PM
I have read through this entire thread and have been more than thrilled that, although mentioned as "similar to" or "since we have the"; the wonderful .243 rifle calber has not been nominated as one one the way to the junk heap.

I bought my first real high power rifle from a friend this summer and put a nice scope on it. I have had more fun sighting in this beauty than I can describe.

It is a thirty+ year old Mossberg model 800B in .243 caliber and it is just the sweetest thing I can imagine. Recoil is not a big deal, bullet weight choices are many and the accuracy is amazing. 55 gr. for varmints to 107 gr. for deer (yes 107 is out there) and whatever else I want to try it on. What a sweetie!
I put a Burris 4.5-14x42 on it and it is my forever rifle. For Iowa that is.
I for sure would not use it for really big game but I am confident that if I do my part it will kill any deer in North America and with proper marksmanship would be useful for elk.
Some may argue with that, but I did say proper marksmanship!

I am just very glad that .243 is not on anyones radar just yet for the obsolete list.

BTW 357 sig is one great cartridge!!

Burddog
www.iowacarry.org
Carry on! SIG P239 in 357 sig

Don't Tread On Me
December 29, 2006, 01:10 AM
When I made this post, I should have asked the question differently. Which mainstream cartridge will be the next to go obsolete? To define that, I might say the candidates would be cartridges currently loaded by Winchester, Federal and Remington. If the big boys aren't loading it, it's obsolete.


With the addition of wildcats, it becomes way too much. There is one interesting thing though. A cartridge that is loaded by a major manufacturer doesn't go completely obsolete, it drops down to the status of a wildcat in the way it is used. Although, that isn't the definition of a wildcat. Sometimes a smaller company will pick up on the loading of a cartridge the big boys have dumped to capitalize on a small niche in the market. I've seen that happen.


Surely, every cartridge that has ever been made is being loaded loaded by someone somewhere by fire forming other brass or whatnot. There are enough people who just want to be different, have something special, or have extremely specific needs that load cartridges that are all but dead. That isn't what I meant.

Yo
December 29, 2006, 01:10 AM
Those who predict the demise of the 17 rimfires may be surprised. The 17 HMR is very healthy and is the preferred round (for 20-150 yards) for many serious varminters. Talk to the pro guides who run varmint safaris, particularly the squirrel shooters--they all keep 17 HMRs in the stable.

The 17 mach 2 may struggle a bit but this is because the ammo-makers haven't marketed it right, and we haven't had competition to improve the breed. I've been doing some serious test work for the past year with the 17 Mach 2, and the results have been pretty amazing. At 4.00/box now, at 50 yards, the round will shoot with the best .22 rimfire ammo (up to $11/box) in a good rifle.

At 100 yards, if you sort the rounds by runout, the 17 Mach 2 will shoot half-moa in a BR rig. This opens up the possibility of 100-yard rimfire competition. Here is a 100-yard target shot by my smith in my Hall-actioned 17 mach 2. It has four shots in .175":

http://accurateshooter.net/targets/runouttest02.jpg

It's just going to take time for people to get their hands on a accurate 17 Mach 2 rifle and prove to themselves what it will do. Considering that the 22LR outsells all other calibers by a large margin, I think the 17 Mach 2 has plenty of potential. It costs less than premium 22LR, and is about 40% less than the 17 HMR. It will do all the 22LR will do and much, much more. What it needs is more intelligent promotion by the ammo-makers and a competition venue to show off its capabilities. As to the 17 rimfires in general--if you think they aren't popular, you need to check the numbers. Combined, the 17 HMR and 17 Mach 2, right now, outsell factory loadings of any one single centerfire rifle caliber, including the .223 Remington. I don't expect the 17 Mach 2 to ever rival the 22LR, but the round definitely has a future.

Don't Tread On Me
December 29, 2006, 01:40 AM
Yes, the .17HMR is going to be around.


I have an NEF .17HMR that shoots sub-moa with ease that I'm going to sell very soon (have no use for it, don't go hunting, no varmints around where I live, I just wanted to see what all the .17hmr craze was about). I'm also out of room in the safe and I can't buy another safe!

I haven't shot it much, but it basically shoots like most .17's - excellent.


I'm a believer.

Greg8098
January 2, 2007, 04:51 AM
.45 acp is the next round to go the way of the dinosaur :evil: !!!

McCall911
January 2, 2007, 05:24 AM
6mm Remington. Even though it's a good cartridge, it's been eclipsed by the .243 Win.

(I'm amazed at how many views this topic has had!)

tinygnat219
January 2, 2007, 09:31 AM
oh yeah, and doesn't CZ use 7.62 x 25's in their old chech military pistols? good luck finding those things!

DaCoda,

Winchester, S&B, along with Wolf manufacture new 7.62X25 ammo. It's just a matter of time before folks use this round as an IPSC round too.
This is in no danger of going away.

tinygnat219
January 2, 2007, 09:32 AM
.45 acp is the next round to go the way of the dinosaur !!!

Greg8098,

I am still cleaning coffee off of my computer screen after your last post. Good one!

EricTheBarbarian
January 2, 2007, 01:15 PM
well as much as anyone doesn't want to hear it I could see 7.62x39 be increasingly less popular in the next few years. When Billary gets elected some sort of importation ban on ammunition could make the good cheap stuff like wolf become very hard to find. I don't see that cartridge being very popular if everyone has to buy 12 dollar boxes of shells to shoot from american made ammunition. I have a wasr-10 and that thing sure loves to go through the rounds and is fun to shoot but I don't think I could afford to shoot as much as I'd like if I had to buy some over priced american made ammo instead of the commie steel case stuff

Reginhild
January 2, 2007, 02:16 PM
I predict that the massive arms manufacturers of AK style rifles will replace the 7.62x39 with the 6.5 Grendel or a slightly changed knock-off of the 6.5 Grendel in the next 10 years. It may be the 7.62x39 case necked down to 6.5 mm to use in existing 7.62 magazines and rifles with only a barrel change for the manufacturing process (this case would be slightly different than 6.5 Grendel cases).

The 7.62x39 has nothing going for it in wounding capability or long range ballistics. The change to 6.5mm would give long range capability with the fragmentation of 5.56 rounds as well as save the low cost manufacturers some raw material cost in bullets. It only makes sense that they switch.

So...7.62x39 going away!

mordechaianiliewicz
January 2, 2007, 02:30 PM
.45 GAP. As soon as it's launched, it'll be gone.

mordechaianiliewicz
January 2, 2007, 02:33 PM
The only issue might be the SAAMI specs for that, Reginhild. 7.62x39mm generates a lower pressure than most modern cartridges, and an upgrade in how the weapon is made might be necessary.

Plus, you have the AK-74. And a switch to using the 5.45x39mm rounds makes much more sense for AK manufacturers than any 6.5 Grendel loading.

JMHO

GW
January 2, 2007, 08:25 PM
So...7.62x39 going away!
Oh Puhleeeze:rolleyes:

Theres 50 million AK-47's out there not to mention SKS type rifles and yes even Mini-30's
Cheap 7.62x39 may be vanishing but the cartridge itself will be around for a long long time

Leedavisone
January 2, 2007, 08:37 PM
How about the 41 Long Colt (mentioned earlier)? I would sure like to find some. Well, I suppose it is Already a gonner, so not relevant to the discussion.

Reginhild
January 2, 2007, 08:51 PM
Quote:
So...7.62x39 going away!

Oh Puhleeeze

Theres 50 million AK-47's out there not to mention SKS type rifles and yes even Mini-30's
Cheap 7.62x39 may be vanishing but the cartridge itself will be around for a long long time

It is I tell you! :what:

Anteater1717
January 2, 2007, 09:26 PM
"I wouldn't mind seeing a 10mm revival either. Especially if it gets a 10mm XD onto the market, and maybe a 10mm carbine. Bonus points if it uses the same mags." Posted by http://thehighroad.org/member.php?u=22740

it would be realy cool if it could take 10mm and .40 s&w it would be fun because not only could you hunt with the 10mm but plink and practise with the .40s&w. imagen instead of a ruger pc4 or a pc9 a pc10 i would buy it

McCall911
January 2, 2007, 10:14 PM
How about the 41 Long Colt (mentioned earlier)? I would sure like to find some. Well, I suppose it is Already a gonner, so not relevant to the discussion.

I think the last run of .41 Long Colt Winchester factory ammo was in the late 1970s. I had bought the last two boxes of my local dealer's stock for my Colt Army Special. Too bad. Nice shooting pistol, that was.

Currently, Buffalo Arms has some loaded ammunition, but it's pricey stuff!


http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4169.htm

JAMES77257
January 2, 2007, 10:20 PM
"I also think Glock itself could fade a bit unless they start innovating with new designs."


:what: You are kidding, Right?




I've always wanted a Glock 23 sized .45. I was one of the first in my county to get a G38. It is by far the most comfortable semi I've ever owned, and super accurate.




"I also think Glock itself could fade a bit unless they start innovating with new designs."


Man I hope you were kidding.:scrutiny:

Geno
January 2, 2007, 10:23 PM
Let me clarify, that .45 ACP stands for America's Combat Pistol! Psych! It will be a cool day in Hades before the mighty .45 ACP is gone. :p

Seriously now, define obsolete, meaning no longer made. I would have say none. There is a dramatic increase in firearms interest. I actually believe that there will be a renaissance of a few former obsolete ones. Just my 2 cents, but I pray that I am correct for the sake of my favorite sport.

Doc2005

darkknight
January 3, 2007, 04:41 AM
dont see much from this round and i think its dying fast. i know some still use it but its reaching its extinction. just my .02

Manedwolf
January 3, 2007, 10:48 AM
5.45x39mm. Who needs it anymore?

The Russian AK makers and others are already cranking out rifles in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO.

What's the point of an overly complicated round that doesn't offer performance or ballistic results as good as 5.56, when they're making rifles to use the NATO standard stuff?

tinygnat219
January 5, 2007, 12:06 PM
Some other contenders:

.32 S&W

.32 S&W Long

.32 H&R Magnum

.41 Magnum

45 Auto Rim

10MM

38 Super

10 Gauge

16 Gauge

James NM
January 5, 2007, 02:05 PM
Are you guys crazy?:what:

Next someone will claim my 30 Remington will become obsolete:)

Reginhild
January 6, 2007, 02:10 PM
Yeah! This thread has gone to much crazienestness :eek: seeking humor rather than boredom.

No_Brakes23
January 7, 2007, 11:24 PM
So are 7mm remington and 43 Egyptian obsolete? I sure can't find them anywhere, and I don't think anyone makes weapons for them.

7.65x54 Argentine/7.65x53 Belgian/7.65ARG can also be a pain to find, (Graf & Sons sells it,) and there are plenty of Argie Mausers out there, but I definitely call it obsolete. I was given mine but there's no reason short of curio to choose it.

I think .30-'06 is also technically obsolete, (Though obviously ot in the sense of manufacture,) but it is still an excellent and traditional round that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. "Ain't broke, don't fix it" is going to give this round another hundred years, I imagine.

ithacalover
January 8, 2007, 12:10 AM
I couldn't believe my eyes when no one bothered mentioning the doomed-from-the-start 6mm Remington. It's still managing to hang on; chambered in the Remington 700 and the Ruger M77, but it lost the race to the wildly popular (but some would say ballistically inferior) .243 Winchester decades ago. The fact that no one mentioned the thing just proves how out of the spotlight it is. It will soldier on in cartridge sales just to feed the old guns out there, but there's no real future for it. Too bad.

RemingtonFreak870
January 8, 2007, 12:41 AM
.22 lr...definitely not going to stay the course...who even shoots that stuff anymore?:eek:


























Just kidding:neener:

possum
January 8, 2007, 12:45 AM
i hope that the .45gap goes away just so i don't have to hear about it anymore. :)

jeff-10
January 8, 2007, 12:53 AM
I believe because of modern manufacturing techniques and the large number of firearm and ammo manufacturers out there it is much harder for caliber to become obsoloete. 20 years ago if a round failed it would be gone withing a year and become an option for only handloaders. That being said if I had to pick a obsolete round it would be one of thr WSSM rounds. I don't believe winchester is producing bolt actions at this time and I doubt any other companies are going to keep it alive.

Dr. Dickie
January 8, 2007, 06:57 AM
Let me clarify, that .45 ACP stands for America's Combat Pistol! Psych! It will be a cool day in Hades before the mighty .45 ACP is gone.


I personally have enough .45 ACP brass to keep the cartridge alive well into the next decade and beyond:neener:

McCall911
January 8, 2007, 07:10 AM
I mentioned it on page 9, but I think it bears repeating. :D
But I'm glad it isn't obsolete. Yet. :uhoh:

K.L.O.sako
January 8, 2007, 08:10 AM
i'd have to say the 300 remington ultra mag is next. i have one and absolutely love it. but at 45$ for the cheapest box of ammo at the gun store, its dying quickly. reloading is the only way to go. fed & rem are the only two makers out there loading it and if popularity doesn't rise, i'll say they ax it in five years or so

06
January 8, 2007, 08:38 AM
You guys are hurting my feelings talking lowly about my sweetheart round-the venerated 30-06 or 06 as most say. Cannot imagine it ever leaving the scene.
--"The AK is a squared-off beer can"--it may be but they will be around longer than we will be. When something works, why mess with it?
The 220 Swift may be vanishing as I do not see them much anymore. Some of the Weatherby rounds will probably vanish from the popular counters. wc

tinygnat219
January 8, 2007, 08:41 AM
Possum,

Have to agree with you on the 45 GAP. Still trying to figure out why it was made.

No_Brakes23
January 9, 2007, 01:28 AM
You guys are hurting my feelings talking lowly about my sweetheart round-the venerated 30-06 or 06 as most say. Cannot imagine it ever leaving the scene.

As stated I think the '06 is an excellent example of an obsolete round that has NOT outlived it usefulness. It's old, but it ain't going anywhere.

JAMES77257
January 9, 2007, 02:08 AM
Have to agree with you on the 45 GAP. Still trying to figure out why it was made.


I've been compromising with a G23 for years, wishing that Glock made a mid-sized .45, then presto, there it is. It's small enough to conceal, but has a 4" bbl which makes it faster to aquire the front sight ( longer sight plane ).

It works great for me.

Neo-Luddite
January 11, 2007, 12:17 AM
What was that electrically fired thing called? You know.

It was going to be everywhere. We would love the lock time, etc.
No offense if you bought one--I'd love to try it out, too.

AND would LOVE to fire a damn
GyroJet (carbine or pistol).

A round more instantly obsolete than even the GAP.

Mat, not doormat
January 11, 2007, 09:54 AM
.25,.32acp,32 Long, and .380, .22 shorts, 222 Remington and Sweet Sixteen shotgun shells I have tucked away.

Is it sad that I own firearms in four of the calibers mentioned above? Btw, the Triple Deuce is still lingering on. Benchrest guys love it, and ground hogs in my neck of the woods hate it.

~~~Mat

MinnMooney
March 6, 2009, 03:14 AM
Hindsight may be 20/20 but guessing the future leaves something to be desired.

These cartridges were mentioned as about to become obsolete (I've highlighted a few that may not go obsolete in the near future) :

.204 Ruger This is my favorite! Many people thought this wouldn't catch on or might be a flash-in-the-pan. Fantastic Prairie Dog cartridge!!! It ain't a-goin' anywhere but UP in sales for many years to come.
.22 long
.22 shorts
.222 Remington
.223Rem. !!
.224
.225 Winchester
.22mag
.25 ACP
.250 Savage
.250-3000
.257 Roberts
.25ACP
.260Rem.
.270Win. !!
.30 carbine
.30 Luger
.300 Norma Mag
.300 Savage
.30-06 - Huh!?
.303 savage
.30-40 Krag
.307 Win
.32 Long
.32 Magnum
.32 NAA
.32-20
.32ACP Not with all of the new pistols coming out!
.35 Remington
.35 WSM
.356 TSW
.357 Maximum
.376 Steyr
.38 Casull
.38 S&W
.38 Super
.380 ACP Not with all of the new pistols coming out!
.400 CorBon
.41 Long Colt
.41 Magnum
.44 Auto-mag
.44 Special
.444 Marlin
.45 Bushmaster
.45 GAP
.45 Super
.45 WinMag
.450 Marlin
.45-60
.460 Roland
.460 XVR
.475 Wildey
.480 Ruger
.480 Ruger
.50 AE
.50 GI
.50 Special
10mm
11.3x50
16ga
4.6x30
5.5mm Velo Dog
5.7X28mm
6.6 grendel
6.5 Carcano
6.8mm
6.8SPC
7.62 x 25
7.62x54R
7mm STW
8mm Mauser
8mm Nambu
8mm Rem Mag
9mm Luger Who in their right mind thinks this will go away?
9x18 Makarov
Remington Ultra mags
Winchester Super Short Magnums Too many rifles and too accurate to die.

Duke of Doubt
March 6, 2009, 03:26 AM
.45gap

Kind of Blued
March 6, 2009, 04:16 AM
Wow, this IS an old thread. I still LOVE this type of conspiracy though. I'm most interested in handgun cartridges. Why? Because when a handgun cartridge DOES become obsolete, all of the guns chambered for that cartridge eventually go up for sale to the public as "police buybacks", and that's one of the most American things ever. :)

My thoughts:

.45 GAP could stay around if Glock wants it to. The company may be stubborn, but assuming they stay up-to-date with PD demands and needs, which is likely considering PDs are born and raised on Glocks these days, the cartridge should be fine. One has to acknowledge that LEOs come in all different sizes (*cough* cause they have to) and it already has PD contracts. If Glock was by chance getting cuts on .45 GAP ammo sales, they'd be golden.

The .357 Sig will stay. The numbers really look best with 115gr. bullets, but those numbers look really good. Of course, "the numbers" are the only thing to look at if you don't already own a gun chambered for this round. Brass is made easily from the already accepted and available .40 S&W and there are so many 9mm/.357 bullets that you can't go anywhere without tripping over them. The .357 Sig also has potential for the types of folks who like to "hot-rod" pistols, which is to say, the guys that like 10mm but not the recoil. As a matter of fact, I'm suprised I haven't seen a 5" 1911 chambered for this round for competition. True, .38 Super probably makes more sense.

Of interest to me are the bottlenecked rimless cartridges (.357 Sig, .38 NAA, .32 NAA), and smaller-caliber rimmed cartridges (.327 Mag). You're more likely to get a CNS hit with penetration than with expansion, and all of these cartridges serve that purpose, as well as putting more ft/lbs. of energy in the gun to begin with.

With concealed carry increasing in popularity daily, I think handgun cartridges will see a bigger percentage of increase in cartridge options than rifles. I emphasized percentage because folks will always be more interested in tinkering with rifle cartridges than with handgun cartridges, but relatively, I think handgun cartridges will see a considerable focus.

Duke of Doubt
March 6, 2009, 04:47 AM
Kind of Blued: "which is likely considering PDs are born and raised on Glocks these days"

Huh? Not a single state or local police or other agency in my entire state (Maine) to my knowledge is authorized or permitted to carry Glocks. Sigs and H&Ks rule the roost around here; even the State Police switched over from the Beretta to the H&K for the .45 caliber.

Kind of Blued
March 6, 2009, 05:41 AM
Of the ~15 municipal police departments and county sheriff departments I've "asked" (seen), only two of them didn't issue Glocks, although some allow for other sidearms under certain circumstances. It may be a Midwestern/Western thing... I have no way of knowing immediately.

natman
March 6, 2009, 11:56 AM
The definition of obsolete is pretty well established. A cartridge is obsolescent when no one is producing guns for it anymore. So the 32 Winchester Special and the 250 Savage are obsolescent. A cartridge is obsolete when no one produces ammunition any more. So the 303 Savage is obsolete.

This assumes production in significant numbers, not commemoratives, custom runs by a gunsmith in Montana nor boutique ammo from Navy Arms.

So it's interesting to look back on some of the predictions. The WSM cartridges are doing well, with the exception of the 7mm WSM. Having both a 7mm and 270 version of the same cartridge introduced at the same time was just too much. However the SUPER short magnums are obsolescent, although not obsolete yet. The 17 HMR is a big hit, while the 17 HM2 hovers on the brink. I don't understand all the predictions that the 357 Sig is on the way out; Glock is still making pistols for it.

CSA 357
March 6, 2009, 07:30 PM
ALL OF THEM IF WE CANT FIND PRIMERS?:rolleyes:

servantofinari
March 6, 2009, 07:37 PM
this one already is, the 25-35. i hate that round.

gbran
March 6, 2009, 07:41 PM
Kimber trying to make a comeback with the 257 Roberts in one of their new rifles.

AnthonyC.
March 6, 2009, 07:51 PM
Who thinks .38 s&w is going anywhere? I think there are still alot of people that like to shoot .38's........and if not a .38 there are some people that shoot .38's out of .357's....

Redneck with a 40
March 6, 2009, 09:41 PM
I'd say the Winchester SSM's are going to fade, as well as 45 GAP, its on its death bed. The 45 GAP was doomed from the beginning, with the explosion of the 40 S&W popularity.

MatthewVanitas
March 6, 2009, 11:06 PM
Who thinks .38 s&w is going anywhere? I think there are still alot of people that like to shoot .38's........and if not a .38 there are some people that shoot .38's out of .357's....

You're thinking of .38 S&W Special. The obsolescent one is the .38 S&W. Completely different cartridges, and not cross-compatible. To the best of my knowledge new guns in .38 S&W haven't been made since 1980 or so, and even then only by smaller companies. I think S&W stopped making the Model 32 in 1970 or so, and I don't think Ruger ever made any for the U.S. market.

It's somewhere between a .380 and 9mm, so really has no advantage over .38 Spl except maybe being able to fit into smaller/weaker frames. But yeah, it's obsolescent and fading fast. The only reason ammo is still made for is there are tons of cheap little break-top revolvers (Iver Johnson, H&R) floating around for it, and a few S&W.


EDIT: Looked into it, Ruger made .38 S&W models for Northern Ireland and India, and they're very rare collector's items in the U.S.

AKElroy
March 6, 2009, 11:12 PM
What was Glock thinking? If I wanted a .45 short-I think I'd buy a .40

Careful, now...Don't make me paste in muzzle energy comparisons for the .40.

kd7nqb
March 7, 2009, 04:34 AM
So 4-5 yrs ago I would have said .380 but then the LCP happened which in turn reignited love for the P3AT and other .380's so that is one to stay. But more importantly I assume many of these cartriges are just one GOOD gun away from coming back.

The one that I think is on its way out is .45gap, it just does not fit.

I dont think 10mm or .357sig are going anywhere. In fact I expect to see 10mm adopted by more LEO agencies. My reason is that admins who actually make the decision rarely know anything about guns so going from a 9mm glock to a 10mm glock does not sound like a major change. But if they asked to go to .45 then the admins may have heard things that make them think this is some sort of super killer. The same goes for .357sig since too many would confuse it with .357mag. Its REALLY sad that these situations are even possible but I dont think they are that far off.

As far as the last obsolete round I had the wonder of dealing with, a buddy of mine found an old Iver Johnson revolver in his grandpa's attic it was chambered in .38 something or other that was most certainly NOT .38spl

Dookie
March 7, 2009, 04:47 AM
I believe that the .17 rimfire series will go obsolete.
Hows this working out? :)

I could see the 50 GI leaving as it is basically proprietary round.

woof
March 7, 2009, 05:09 PM
.35 Rem is going nowhere. Too many fans, too great a round for thick woods.

.250/3000 and .300 Savage are ripe for someone to make a shorter than .308 action, bolt, lever or pump (!). Both are excellent performers.

I agree .260 stays, in fact it is a great round.

I think the 6.8spc has a place too. A short action .270 lite sounds good to me. Let's get it in a bolt or maybe in my dream pump carbine along with .250 and .300 Savage.

.450 Marlin is what I'd want if a grizzly was after me.

I say kill the 7x57. Simply no need, the 7-08 is just better.

metallic
March 7, 2009, 08:12 PM
.45ACP :neener: Just kidding, but I would give a certain sensitive part of my anatomy for some WWB right now.

earlthegoat2
March 7, 2009, 08:20 PM
327 Federal

Nero_Atrum
March 7, 2009, 09:09 PM
.45 gap

Mainer2009
April 2, 2009, 09:31 AM
I wouldn't be shocked if the 500 mag went to the way side. The handguns themselves cost an arm and a leg, ($1000+ for a new one) and you can't get your hands on any ammo for less than 50 bucks a box...Midway has some for over $100 per box.

CoRoMo
April 2, 2009, 09:41 AM
The Swiss 2.34 mm Rimfire became obsolete the day it was born.

HoosierQ
April 2, 2009, 10:32 AM
Just for kicks, I am going to declare a winner (or loser I guess). Gleaned from all above, I think we need to send flowers for the .45 GAP.

Norinco982lover
April 2, 2009, 12:16 PM
The .45 GAP is my bet. I've never even seen a gun in .45 GAP. (That's not saying much but...you get the idea)

~Norinco

BhmBill
April 2, 2009, 12:34 PM
9mm, .45 apc, and .223.


Mach 2 will probably phase out soon. .17 HMR ammo is suprisingly hard to find in stock. No one touches the Mach stuff.

It sucks having a gun chambered in a round that no one makes anymore though. Damn ye .222 Rem Mag.

Buck Snort
April 2, 2009, 02:34 PM
MFL Jim McCloud wrote:

"I have a Colt 1911 .38 super that was made in 1952 that is unfired NIB. I hate the damn thing because I just can't shoot it,and had to buy a used one to shoot!"

That makes it rough on a guy for sure!!

Buck Snort
April 2, 2009, 02:45 PM
I haven't read all 23 pages but I'm thinking the 327 magnum may be pretty much of a DOA. I know Charter and Smith are chambering for it but its really trying to catch a toe hold in 38 special terrain and that's gonna be pretty hard to hold on to.

BlisteringSilence
April 2, 2009, 04:50 PM
You all leave my .45 GAP alone. I love that pistol. I have the Para CCO in .45GAP. I love that LDA trigger.

goldie
April 2, 2009, 09:21 PM
what ever happened to the 357 maximum from remington, is that one dead,too?:confused:

PT1911
April 2, 2009, 09:26 PM
"I have a Colt 1911 .38 super that was made in 1952 that is unfired NIB. I hate the damn thing because I just can't shoot it,and had to buy a used one to shoot!"

wouldnt you like to know how she handles... you know she is calling from the safe... every day... "I was made to shoot... imagine the feeling when you pull the trigger..."

PT1911
April 2, 2009, 09:30 PM
how bout the 17 mark II?

LoneCoon
April 2, 2009, 09:41 PM
7.62x25.

The only thing that shoots them are 50 year old guns and sub guns that no one else uses.

natman
April 2, 2009, 10:46 PM
what ever happened to the 357 maximum from remington, is that one dead,too?

Yep. Ruger made a few revolvers, had problems with them, end of story.

Remington still offers brass and Grizzly loads ammo (at $1.50 a pop), but it's pretty much done.

crazy-mp
April 3, 2009, 12:02 AM
I tried to read through this but it seemed like I was reading the same post over and over.


My vote .17 Fireball (REMINGTON)


I even have one, and I bought both boxes of ammo that I have ever seen.

SharpsDressedMan
April 3, 2009, 10:26 AM
Probably 5.56x45mm. All it would take is an Executive Order to make the current U.S. military cartridge illegal for civilians......

goldie
April 3, 2009, 11:09 AM
(Probably 5.56x45mm.) boy i hope your wrong about that one...:eek:

kyo
April 3, 2009, 12:09 PM
We can all tell easily which ones are on the way out. Just go online and try to find ammo. The ones that are still in stock, are the ones no one is buying.

marsofold
April 3, 2009, 04:17 PM
If the situation with the lack of primers gets much worse, then ALL cartridges will be obsolete. Then it'll be back to flintlocks...:neener:

Duke of Doubt
April 3, 2009, 05:11 PM
A local shop has had a .45GAP pistol for a couple of years. Every day someone sees it in the case, asks to fondle it, then sees or asks about the caliber and says, "Oh. What? No thanks." That gun has probably been picked up and put down a thousand times since it came in. Finish must be getting worn. He's already reduced the price a little, but it's a brand new gun and he'd have to practically give it away to move it. Even then I have my doubts. I mean, say he priced it at $200 and I bought it, hoping to flip it for another gun somewhere else. It wouldn't work, as no place else would want it, or else would offer even less to take it off my hands.

.45GAP was DOA.

JDoe
April 3, 2009, 05:21 PM
Better tell the New York State Police, Georgia State Patrol, Pennsylvania State Police, and South Carolina Highway Patrol.

The demise of the .45 GAP was predicted two years ago in this very same thread.

MatthewVanitas
April 3, 2009, 07:08 PM
7.62x25.

The only thing that shoots them are 50 year old guns and sub guns that no one else uses.

However, there are a ton of Tokarevs and variants out on the market, not so mention just scads of CZ-52s.

And those guns sold for $100-200 not long ago, so plenty of folks who bought them probably didn't buy them as safe queens, and instead are out shooting watermelons with them every so often.

So long as those surplus pistols are still floating around and not seen as valuable relics, there'll be a market for 7.62x25mm ammo. I'm actually kind of surprised that nobody's made a 1911 conversion for that cartridge, since .30 Mauser 1911s aren't uncommon in some parts of Europe. A long-slide 7.62x25mm 1911 would be a pretty cool fire-breather.

crazy-mp
April 4, 2009, 01:40 AM
.45GAP was DOA.

I see more .45 GAP ammo than .357 SIG and I still have not seen any of the .327 which is a truly worthless round, if you want knockdown power get a .357 if its too much for you shoot .38 +p+ rounds. I guess that’s another wasn’t broke don’t fix it thing huh?

I know if its not a .45, 30-06, .270 or a .22 it must be a crap caliber.

Have you even done any research about why the GAP was developed? It was never meant to replace or even compete with the .45 ACP. It was designed to compete with the 9 mm, .40 and the 10 mm pistols. For people with small hands its hard to hold on to the older full size .45 autos. Until S&W and Springfield came out with their thin grip models. Most Law Enforcement agencies do not allow officers to make modifications to the departmental guns because they fear how it will hold up in court. Therefore the officer could not have a grip reduction on a .45 Glock. So there was a need for a thinner grip gun with more power.

I hope nobody else ever buys a GAP, that way the ammo will stay cheaper for me, right now its still around 6 to 8 dollars a box cheaper than .45 ACP.:neener:

Just like JDoe said
Better tell the New York State Police, Georgia State Patrol, Pennsylvania State Police, and South Carolina Highway Patrol.

FiREhAwk
April 4, 2009, 04:13 AM
not trying to knock GAP but I think Glock was eager to have thier name on a round.

sarduy
April 4, 2009, 05:43 AM
.223, 30-06, 22lr!

hehehe... joking!

edie011
April 4, 2009, 05:03 PM
the super short magnums are not going to last long in my eyes, and also the .17m2 will be obsolete soon because of the high velocity hmr.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 4, 2009, 05:53 PM
There's some good ganjee floating around apparently:


I believe that the .17 rimfire series will go obselete. The Winchester WSM's and WSSM's will go obselete. The .45 GAP and .357 SIG will stay around, for a little while.

Ummmm, no. The .45 gap is already on life support, and will be deader than the dodo soon (thank goodness!). The .17 Hummer is here to stay; it is *extraordinarily* popular, for good reason. The WSMs are staying for a lot, LOT longer than the WSSMs will, and probably are a permanent fixture to a large extent.

.17 mach 2, I'm not sure. If I was a betting man, I'd say it won't last too terribly long.

.357 sig, yes I agree that's its fading fast and will be all but a memory at some point.

I see more .45 GAP ammo than .357 SIG

Yes, it's sitting on the shelves because nobody's buying it.

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