A failure of the victim selection process


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AaronE
May 7, 2006, 01:21 PM
Dad fatally shoots robber; son injured

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A father fatally shot a man who tried to rob his family as they waited in their sport utility vehicle for a summer camp enrollment to open, authorities said.

The father's 10-year-old son was injured during the shooting, but it wasn't immediately clear how. The boy, Brevon Ricks, remained hospitalized in critical condition late Saturday, officials said.

The alleged robber approached the driver's window early Saturday, pointed a gun at the father and demanded money, Sheriff's Office spokesman Ken Jefferson said. He then ordered the family of five to unlock one of the SUV's doors, he said.

"The father, sensing something was wrong, decided to defend his family ... pulled out a gun and he shot and killed the suspect on the scene," Jefferson said.

It was not clear if the father was licensed to carry a gun, he said.

The names of the father and the other family members, as well as the alleged robber, were not released.



The family had been parked at the entrance of McGirts Creek Park, waiting to enroll their children in a summer camp, authorities said.

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thumper723
May 7, 2006, 01:33 PM
Local headline is "Child Shot on Westside"

Typical for the local bird cage liner.

Always wondered why Jacksonville has a liberal/socialist leaning paper in a middle of the road to conservative town, without a right leaning or middle of the road competitor.

Hawkmoon
May 7, 2006, 02:04 PM
"The father, sensing something was wrong, decided to defend his family ... pulled out a gun and he shot and killed the suspect on the scene," Jefferson said.
An uncommonly perceptive family man.

Actually, one would hope that if a robber stuck a gun through the car window and demanded money any sentient human being might be capable of "sensing something was wrong."

mbs357
May 7, 2006, 02:47 PM
Sounds to me like the guy wanted to take a hostage.
Good on the dad...shame he'll probably go through a lot of trouble with this. =(

DRZinn
May 7, 2006, 03:14 PM
Although I could be wrong, it seems obvious enough that the criminal, having pointed his gun into the car, fired in reflex and wounded the child.

Double Naught Spy
May 7, 2006, 07:19 PM
DocZinn said,
Although I could be wrong, it seems obvious enough that the criminal, having pointed his gun into the car, fired in reflex and wounded the child.

Given that there is no report of the suspect shooting, when he shot, or just what caused the child to be injured, I can't see your set of events being supported by the article.

It very well may be that the robber, at the driver's side, but behind the driver (as cops do as a sort of defensive position, was shot by the father, only the father had to turn to fire his gun. In doing so, his round could have first hit some hard aspect of the car before entering the robber, causine the bullet to shatter and ricochet hitting a child in the back seat or some part of the hard surface, such as if the father fired through the glass and the kid was hit by glass. Heck, the child could have been unbelted as they car was parked and when the father turned to fire, the child turned out to be right behind the father with his head in extremely close proximity to the muzzle when the father shot, the child injured by the percussion and/or residue (eye/ear injuries NOT the result of projectile penetration and/or closed head injury).

This is equally hypothetical and has unsubstantiated claims, but fits better with the information that is presented in the original article. Heck, for all we know, the kid could have tried to dive for cover in the back seat and implaled himself somehow on something as simple as a ball point pen.

Just how well the father did is yet to be determined. He and his family report the dead guy as a robber. What the dead guy was doing is not verified by any one other than those favoring the shooter. For wall we know, it was a drug buy gone bad and sure enough, the supposed vigilant father was buying drugs with his kid present. It happens. He may be a hero. There simply isn't the information present to know yet.

Desertdog
May 7, 2006, 07:26 PM
"The father, sensing something was wrong, decided to defend his family ... pulled out a gun and he shot and killed the suspect on the scene," Jefferson said.
I really don't think the father was "sensing something was wrong." I believe he knew damned well sonething was wrong and proceeded to take correct remedial action.

DRZinn
May 7, 2006, 07:29 PM
Well, that's why I said I could be wrong. To me my hypothesis seems more likely.

- The kid was 10, so he was probably in the front seat. That greatly reduces the chance of the things you mentioned.

Double Naught Spy
May 7, 2006, 08:11 PM
Right, based on information you are now making up, the kid probably being in the front seat, the chance of what I said being correct are greatly reduced. How does that work? Your hypothetical is better than my hypothetical because you created more hypothetical information?

Here, the kid is called a shooting victim, only they still don't have a report of the bad guy shooting...
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=57161

Notice the father shot, but nothing about the bad guy shooting. Why? If the bad guy shot, why would they not report it? The "good guy" shot and they reported that aspect. If the kid is really a shooting victim and given only the father is reported as shooting, who shot the kid?

Jeez, given that the robber had a shotgun as per this second article, I am betting that if he shot into the vehicle as you suggest, there would be a lot of evidence of it and not something being squelched by the police.

So were all three kids sleeping in the front seat with the parents, or just this kid, as by your hypothesis he was in the front?

Ten-Year-Old Shooting Victim in Critical Condition

By Victor BlackwellFirst Coast News

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- In the dark of night, a family dreamt of bright summer days, swimming pools and kickball.

Mom, dad and three kids slept inside their sports utility vehicle outside McGirt's Creek Regional Park at 118th Street and Checkmate Lane. They hoped to register the kids for a popular summer camp.

Those dreams were shot down. Jacksonville Sheriff's Office says a man with a shot gun walked up the family's SUV and demanded everything.

"This family did everything that was asked of them by the robber. They totally complied with the wishes of the robbery suspect," said Public Information Officer, Ken Jefferson.

But, police say, when the robber tried to get into the SUV, where the children were, the father shot and killed the suspect. Drevon Ricks, 10, was shot, too.

"The father of the family was defending his family," said Jefferson.

"I would do the same thing," a neighbor said.

A father of three young children, who lives near the park, didn't want to give his name. He says he's told police, many times, about what happens behind this gate, after dark.

"It's terrible, it's terrible. There's noise, there's shooting, there's screaming. I can't handle it," he said.

Until now, neighbor, Dawn Bradge felt safe here.

"I have three children and I'm a single mom. If that were to happen to me, I would have freaked," said Bradge.

The family isn't thinking about soccer for the summer. Now, goals are measured in minutes.

Police spray paint marks the spot where a young boy's bright dreams were dimmed and a community's sense of security was killed.

DRZinn
May 7, 2006, 08:26 PM
based on information you are now making up,I'm not "making up" anything. We're talking about probabilities here, since we don't know, and at ten years old it's much more likely that the kid was in the front seat.


<record screeches to a stop>

The whole family was there? That changes everything, of course, as the mom was probably in the front seat. Mea culpa. That'll teach me to read more carefully....

MarkDido
May 7, 2006, 10:41 PM
The alleged robber approached the driver's window early Saturday, pointed a gun at the father and demanded money, Sheriff's Office spokesman Ken Jefferson said. He then ordered the family of five to unlock one of the SUV's doors, he said.

"The father, sensing something was wrong, decided to defend his family ... pulled out a gun and he shot and killed the suspect on the scene," Jefferson said.

It was not clear if the father was licensed to carry a gun, he said.

In Florida, it is perfectly legal to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle. The statute states that it has to be snapped in a holster, or in some sort of container with a lid. This could be a gun case, your center console or your glove box.

The story isn't clear if the weapon was on the drivers person (which would require a CCW) or in the vehicle.

Standing Wolf
May 7, 2006, 10:53 PM
If I were a wagering man, I'd bet a nickel the criminal won't try that again very soon.

BullfrogKen
May 8, 2006, 01:53 AM
The alleged robber approached the driver's window early Saturday, pointed a gun at the father and demanded money . . .

"The father, sensing something was wrong, decided to defend his family ... pulled out a gun and he shot and killed the suspect on the scene," Jefferson said.

It was not clear if the father was licensed to carry a gun, he said.



Was it determined whether the alleged robber was licensed to carry a gun? I find it curious the robber's status to carry is not challenged, but Dad's was.

It seems to me of little importance whether Dad was legally carrying or not. Any commentary should point out how fortunate the family was that he was able to successfully defend them, and not when he did it was he acting with the state's blessing.

DRZinn
May 8, 2006, 02:01 AM
I find it curious the robber's status to carry is not challenged, but Dad's was. Par for the course. :cool:

mons meg
May 8, 2006, 09:09 AM
It was not clear if the father was licensed to carry a gun, he said.


*cough* affirmative defense *cough*

Sistema1927
May 8, 2006, 10:28 AM
I just love internet speculation.

Whether the child was wounded by the robber, or by a stray round fired by Dad, or by glass fragments, or by an epileptic fit, or by ???, doesn't matter. What matters is that Dad might have saved the lives of his entire family by refusing to allow the robber to get in and have them drive to a secluded area.

He is a sheepdog, protecting his sheep from a wolf.

Vitamin G
May 8, 2006, 10:48 AM
Kid could have had the ejecting brass land on his head and give him a wee blister, and have been transported to the ER for a checkup, no one knows.

If I were a wagering man, I'd bet a nickel the criminal won't try that again very soon.
I'll say... he's dead!

thumper723
May 16, 2006, 10:52 PM
Unfortunatley, they 10 year old boy died Saturday. Jacksonville Sherriffs Office is calling it an "accidental shooting".

May the child rest in peace. My prayers go out to his family.

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