To port or not to port: 1895GS, .45-70


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Kaylee
May 7, 2006, 11:59 PM
Well after playing with quite a few rifles the last few days, I think the winner is the big-bore Marlin. I just put a couple pistols on the block down at CCA, and whenever one or both sells they'll order me a stainless 1895GS.

I'm leaning straight-wristed, and will eventually install a somewhat larger (but not huge) loop for gloves and suchlike, a large aperature at the rear, and possibly a scout mount. I'll also likely slim down the wood for and aft to Winchester proportions, and install a big ol' recoil pad.

Though.. ported or not ported? Anyone have experience with both types and care to share their wisdom?

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hoghunting
May 8, 2006, 12:18 AM
Install the new recoil pad before you shoot it. With the new pad on, try a few rounds and see if recoil is too much. You will be amazed how loud the gun is with ports. I use Past's Magnum shield on the bench, but in the field, recoil is not a problem. Having to wear ear muffs while hunting is.

Buckskinner
May 8, 2006, 01:12 AM
There's a big difference in recoil between the 300 grain, and 405 gr. standard offering. Then there's the good stuff by Buffalo Bore and Garrett Hammerheads...

Have you seen the guy who shot 5 species of dangerous African game with his Marlin .45-70? Cool...His rifle was modded out by Brockman's...

The marlin big bore forum is a great place to get recipes for loads and fixing things like "the marlin ejector" and stuff like that. The consensus there is to stay away from the ported guide guns because of the decible factor...

Don't recall the www. address.

Cosmoline
May 8, 2006, 01:54 AM
Vince Lupo took the Big Six in 2002/2003 with Garrett hot loaded .45-70's.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/lupoindex.asp

I've heard that the Guide Gun, originally designed for this state, has become more and more popular with PH's over there. It's certainly cheaper than a nitro express double rifle!

I'd say no to porting. It increases noise and blast beyond sane limits. I had to wear double ear protection with mine when shooting the powerhouse loads, and can't imagine how loud it would be without any at all. I've actually come around to the notion that the original 1895 with the longer barrel is a better choice for the powerhouse magnums than the 1895G. It's on my list for next year's purchases.

AH-1
May 8, 2006, 09:08 AM
I have a 1895SS and my friend hunts with the guide gun with ports.
first the shorter marlin is very accurate and I have shot it several times.clover leafing at 100 yards isn't a problem with handloads.
the down side is his ported barrel is very loud!!.if you are hunting out of a stand you should be using ear plugs while hunting.if not you will have ringing in your ears:) .
if you get a chance to buy the GG just make sure you get one without the ports.
pete

mainmech48
May 8, 2006, 01:40 PM
I can only relate my personal perceptions, as I've never had access to the instruments to gather quantitative data directly or sufficient inclination to work it out mathematically. In any case, my referents would not be exactly comparable as one is my own factory-ported Marlin 1895G and the other a "standard" 1895 rifle.

To me, the porting makes a marked difference in perceived recoil impulse with both 300 gr. Federal and 405 gr. Remington JSP factory ammo. While report is indeed a bit louder, how much of that might be attributable to the ports and what to the difference in barrel length is anyone's guess. Moot point, if you stipulate the use of adequate hearing protection devices anyway, IMO.

FWIW, both examples wear Pachmayr "Decelerator" pads and the difference in weight between the two is something on the close order of 1 lb. The 1895SS is pistol-gripped with 22" bbl, and my Guide 18 1/2" and straight grip. Both loads seemed to me to exhibit less muzzle rise and "softer" recoil impulse in the ported gun than unported one. YMMV.

Again FWIW, the 300 gr loads actually feel "softer" and are more pleasant to shoot in either than 200 gr. JSP .35 Remingtons in my old 336 carbine with no pad.

JNewell
May 8, 2006, 02:20 PM
I think the ports don't really make a whole lot of difference to the shooter if you are outdoors and uncovered. If you are indoors, or on a covered range line, or in a blind, yes, the ports are going to make the blast and noise a lot worsre. The other side is that they really do reduce muzzle flip, which makes recoil seem lighter.

I replaced the Marlin recoil pad with a Limbsaver. I have Decelerators on other rifles and shotguns and would say that the Limbsaver is probably a little more effective but I can't say I've done an A/B test.

The other mod I did that I think helped the rifle a lot (mine is an early GG) was to swap out the lever, triggerplate and buttstock for a pistol grip version. For me, this really reduced perceived recoil and increased control. I will admit it doesn't look as traditional, but for me it works a lot better. YMMV.

Vern Humphrey
May 8, 2006, 02:20 PM
I'm a crusty old so-and-so, but my theory is a gun ought to have one hole in the barrel, running from end to end.

If a gun needs porting, I don't need that gun.

CZguy
May 8, 2006, 04:40 PM
To me, the porting makes a marked difference in perceived recoil impulse with both 300 gr. Federal and 405 gr. Remington JSP factory ammo. While report is indeed a bit louder, how much of that might be attributable to the ports and what to the difference in barrel length is anyone's guess. Moot point, if you stipulate the use of adequate hearing protection devices anyway, IMO.


This has been my experience also. I installed a Pachmeyer De-cellerator on my factory ported guide gun, and now it's fun to shoot. Recoil is tamed to a manageable level so I can practice with it. During hunting it makes my ears ring, just like a 30-30 out of a twenty inch barrel. ;)

KaceCoyote
May 8, 2006, 06:52 PM
I wonder if you could silence a .45-70 levergun...hmmm..

spacemanspiff
May 8, 2006, 07:09 PM
experts up here say 'Port'. before you do anything, come down to the shop and talk with either ken or jim. WWG has been working these 1895's longer than i've been potty-trained.

KaceCoyote
May 8, 2006, 07:23 PM
Golly Gee spiff potty trained, did'ja get a certificate and everthung?

Vern Humphrey
May 8, 2006, 07:41 PM
Recoil is tamed to a manageable level so I can practice with it. During hunting it makes my ears ring, just like a 30-30 out of a twenty inch barrel.

If your ears ring -- especially if you suffer temporary hearing loss -- get checked. That's a sign of permanent hearing damage.

AH-1
May 8, 2006, 07:58 PM
every wonder why marlin stopped porting the GG?? the were worried about getting sued..(hearing loss) for a while they even had a program to rebarrel the ported marlins.

CZguy
May 8, 2006, 09:04 PM
every wonder why marlin stopped porting the GG?? the were worried about getting sued..(hearing loss) for a while they even had a program to rebarrel the ported marlins.

Aren't these the same people who brought us the much loved 5+ pound trigger pulls and cross bolt safety. :rolleyes:

JNewell
May 8, 2006, 09:35 PM
To the best of my knowledge, Marlin charged for every barrel swap from ported to unported (something like $200, IIRC). I honestly don't think manufacturers worry much about liability for hearing loss. There are too many other litigation/liability risks inherent in selling firearms to those who are DFTNU (which is not a reference to any folks in this thread).

Kaylee
May 9, 2006, 12:13 AM
Thanks for the advice all!

The intent is for an "eek! A stalking carpet!" kinda backwoods gun. Thus.. outdoors sans ear protection is a possibility, at least ..um.. once. :p

mrrick
May 9, 2006, 07:43 AM
I'd rather have a sore shoulder, than blown eardrums.

Vern Humphrey
May 9, 2006, 10:01 AM
Aren't these the same people who brought us the much loved 5+ pound trigger pulls and cross bolt safety.

Actually, it was the lawyers who did that.

I know there have to be lawyers lurking here ready to jump up and say, "Well, we made things safer!"

When they do -- whack 'em with a frying pan.:neener:

CZguy
May 9, 2006, 11:16 AM
I'd rather have a sore shoulder, than blown eardrums.

:what: We may be getting a little carried away here, it's just not that much louder. I mean realistically you should wear hearing protection when you shoot anything.

mainmech48
May 9, 2006, 11:57 AM
My guess is that the change had more to do with negative feedback from folks who favor lead bullets in their .45-70. Anyone who's cleaned a compensator-equipped handgun after running a batch of cast bullet loads through it will understand. Having a bunch of little ports (fourteen on mine!) rather than a couple of big ones make even more of a chore, IMO.

I use commercially cast bullets for practice and plinking loads myself. For maximum economy the majority of them aren't gas-checked, so I don't try to push them too fast (c:1000-1200 f/s). Even so, fifty rounds in an afternoon would often leave enough gunk to be a PITA. I started using Carter's Compensator Spray when I got tired of buying pipe cleaners and ruining .177 bore brushes. It helps a bunch, and Shooter's Choice Lead Remover gets what little does manage to show up easily.

mikewalker
June 11, 2006, 03:21 PM
After my experiance with a ported 357mag.....never again..

I have 2 stocks for my 1895gs a Decelerator one one Pac. Redline on the other, which I like a bit more. With either 300 or 405gr loads it's comfortable to shoot 40rds in a sitting and be bummed that's all I bought. Even with Buffalo Bores hot 430+p it's just a good shove. I don't think I'll ever hit the hills again with a gun requiring me to put in earplugs first........'scuse me Mr. bitey-scratchy-eat me thing can you wait till I gets my plugs in?

I really can't say anything about the noise level between ported/unported, but if your only concern is recoil, put a GOOD pad on first. You may find that's all you need. On the other hand hotter loads require a pretty darn good grip on the fore end. The first +p round out of my 1895 LTD put the barrel straight up taking a fingerprint or 2 with it...

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