[MikeyB]

I can't seem to get a straight answer from the Records department :mad: so I thought I'd ask here...

My green slip is good for 10 daysl. If it expires, do I have to go through the application process again, and wait 10 days for approval, or can I be issued another one immediately (within a certain time period?

[Hemicuda]

Green slip??? Is that the paper your local LEO gives you to buy a gun with? (the only "green" things I get are the Handgun Registration Cards that register the gun, and thay never expire)

then again, I have a MI CPL, so I don't have to get a permit to purchase...

IF you mean the "Permit to Purchase", then yes, it expires after 10 days, if unused, and you'll need a new one to buy a handgun...

Life is far easier in MI, with regards to handguns if you spend the $200.00+/- and get the Concealed Pistol License...

[hso]

Tell everyone what the official name of the reg/form/permit is that you have a question about.

[MikeyB]

Sorry gang...it's officially called a Purchase Permit. Whenever I use that phrase in MI, I get blank stares :confused:

Question is, do I need to complete another application and wait the 10 days before another one is issued.

[thumbody]

Yes the purchase permit is good for 10 days then you have to get a new one.

[model 649]

It's up to the issuing agency wether you need to wait the ten days again, ask them. I, too have the CPL so it doesn't affect me, either. I was unaware any department was observing the waiting period since the act sunsetted.
Josh

[Hemicuda]

Model 649... I believe he is confused... the ten days is the expiration of the permit, NOT a waiting period.

(you CAN posess more than 1 purchase permit at a time, or how could you buy, say, a pair of "CASS" revolvers, or go to a gunshow intending to buy a couple old Colts, or Smittys for a collector?)

in 10 days, the old permit is useless, but I believe you can get a new one anytime...

Best bet? - get the permit, then go get the gun... there's no use in obtaining a purchase permit if you aren't gonna purchase a gun!

[creitzel]

The puchase permit will expire after 10 days, and you will need to reapply to get another after that.

The waiting period you are describing is dependent on the jurisdiction ( At least that's what the gun stores in my area have told me. My local police department made me wait 2 days to obtain a purchase permit ). if your local police agency has you wait 10 days as part of the process, then yes you will have to wait another ten days to get another purchase permit.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[1911JMB]

I've got mixed feelings about michigan's registering of pistols. Yes the police can instantly discover your pistol is yours if they recover it from a dirt bag that stole it from you, but requiring registration is disgusting. Especially making you get a permit to purchase. My local PD makes sure to be a pain in the ass when they register pistols. They'll only do it a couple days a week, and even then its got to be during buisness hours.

[nelson133]

For you students of bureaucratese, it is a "safety inspection", not registration. You have to have your green card to show your gun is safe.
+1 on the Michigan CPL making life alot easier.

[creitzel]

...but requiring registration is disgusting

+1 on that. It took me 3 trips to the police station and 2 trips to the gun store, when I'm the law abiding citizen. What a joke. I don't know what the criminals have to go through to get their guns, but I'm betting it's a much more pleasant experience than I go through.

For you students of bureaucratese, it is a "safety inspection", not registration

Yeah, they made sure my serial number was good and safe

Chris

Edited to add:

+1 on the Michigan CPL making life alot easier

yeah, I plan on getting one, whether or not I carry, just to make purchasing guns easier. :)

[model 649]

Ah, yes, the "safety inspection certificate". It says on the back: " A cursory inspection has been made of this pistol presented. A check for operational or mechanical defects has not been made of this pistol" Neat language, huh? I still can't figure out how we get to "safety inspection" from there. I guess the "cursory inspection" was copying the serial number cause thats all the ladies in my town do. I usually have to point it out to them on the gun. You should have seen them when I registered...oops presented my folding AK to them for "safety inspection". She was afraid to touch it so I held it up to her face for her to read the numbers(all eyes on the AK at that point, LOL). As I was waiting, a detective walked over to read my info they had taken down. He didn't look too pleased (too bad, so sad I thought). Reminded me of the scene in Marathon Man: "Is it safe?". Call it what you will, it's registration, nothing more or less.
Josh

[Barbara]

The waiting period you are describing is dependent on the jurisdiction

This is a violation of the law. We've asked Mike Cox for a decision on the various waiting periods, fees and illegal records being kept by various departments, and hope to have one by July or so, but regardless, no jurisdiction can impose a waiting period due to the preemption law Michigan has.

[Quaamik]

Though Michigans preemption should take care of it, I doubt it will.

The AG opinion will just give the necessary ammunition to go after the various municipalities that are the worst offenders. Once those lose in court (and I expect it will go to court) the rest will fold until they can think of another way to make things difficult.

Over the past 18 or so years, I have personally experianced "waiting periods" for a purchase permit ranging from 0 (only as many minutes as you had to wait in line) to over 30 days. Those were from 3 different cities. I've had friends who have had to wait 30_days for a purchase permit, only to have the gun taken and held for the "safety inspection" for almost 60 days while the police ran ballistics on a brand new firearm.

From my personal experiance, the city of Warren has been the best. Record time was 2 hours. Thats from applying for a purchase permit to walking our with an "inspected" gun (and running to the gun store in between). Only drawback was they were only open for that for a 2 hour block in the afternoon at the time.

My worst was Sterling Heights nearly 17 years ago. The permit took 30 days (mandatory minimum I was told) and the "safety inspection" took almost 2 hours.

[Standing Wolf]

I've got mixed feelings about michigan's registering of pistols. Yes the police can instantly discover your pistol is yours if they recover it from a dirt bag that stole it from you, but requiring registration is disgusting.

Well, yeah, but it makes it a lot easier for the police when the time comes to collect them all.

[creitzel]

This is a violation of the law. ...

So what does the law actually state then? Or is this what the decision you speak of will clarify? It was never called a "waiting period", that's my wording. I was just told that it would take 2 days to process the application. A couple of dealers at the gun stores I visited are the ones who told me that it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

[Barbara]

I think most of them will fold right away. The biggest violation has been the fees..they can't charge a fee for a permit so they charge a fee to "notarize" it. Canton was the biggest offender. Fees, waiting periods, extra forms, and the locals keep what appears to be their own log of registrations. If there's a court case, that may well be the place.

[Barbara]

MCL 28.442(3) and (12) state that these entities shall issue the permits “with due speed and diligence” and during “normal business hours”.

PA 372 of 1927 does not specify a limit, though some entities are limiting the number of permits obtained.

MCL 123.1102 states that a local government unit cannot impose special fees or taxes for firearms-related matters; however, a number of entities are charging a fee in these instances.

PA 372 of 1927 does not specify a waiting period.

[Hemicuda]

I never have any problems with registration, length of time wise... (I think registration itself is wrong)

it takes 15 to 20 minutes to get one "inspected"...

The inspection is a joke anyway, Like:
Mu Piero (it's Pietro) Beretta 8040F,
My Dan Wesson 15-2v (it's a 15-2 HV)
My Hi-Standard Double-Nine (card says "8 shot", it's 9 like the name says)
My Contender frame (the card has white out for caliber, cause the girl thought I had to list one, even though I have like 9 barrels)
My 4506 Smitty that holds 8 in the mag, but is listed as "9 shot"
My Ruger MK I that holds 9 in the mag, but is listed as "9 shot" (If you're gonna count the one in the pipe, shouldn't you do it on all semi autos?
How about my Smitty 410 .40 cal? It has 11 round mags, so it's either 11 or 12 rounds, but they list it as a "10 shot"...

they can't seem to get even one of them right!

[creitzel]

Thanks for the info Barbara :)

MCL 28.442(3) and (12) state that these entities shall issue the permits “with due speed and diligence” and during “normal business hours”.


Yeah, but they can get around this can't they? Since the legislation was worded so vaguely. I mean where do they define what "due speed and diligence" really means. It sounds like they are leaving it to each city to interpret what this means. Which is what is currently happening. Hopefully your action will force the AG to define it.

Oh yeah and I had to pay a $5 fee for the permit as well. I wasn't really upset about paying it at the time, but now that I find out that they're not supposed to be charging any fees, it irks me a bit.

I wonder if Livonia is keeping any of these extra records you mentioned :scrutiny:.

Chris

[Barbara]

Yeah, that's the problem..there is a lot of vagueness, like with the notary fees. If they call it a permit fee, its illegal. If they call it a notary fee, its a grey area.

Hopefully it will get cleared up soon.

[History Prof]

Geez, add another state where I'll never look for a research/teaching position if I get tired of my current job. I had no idea MI was so restrictive. I feel sorry for you poor folks. Y'all need to get together and vote you legislators out of office! :banghead:

[model 649]

I don't know that it's simply a matter of "voting the legislators out". There is alot that is left to local control. Might be a good idea to get a law that updates the one from 1927, perhaps with language less vague? Anyway, Chris, I think Livonia DOES keep their own records. They(L.P.D.) once wrote me back AFTER issuing the green card(way later....) with a question about the gun which was purchased without a purchase permit(used CPL) and registered, I mean, "safety inspected" by them. I have also watched them enter the info from every gun I've presented them with for "inspection" into their P.C. (which they then use to print the green card with) It's a clever, neat, "defacto" way to gather info on guns in livonia. Could use some language about practices like this in a new law, too.
Josh

[creitzel]

Now that you mention it, I watched them enter my information into a computer as well, when I had my pistol "safety inspected". I just thought that it was some sort of system to transmit the info to the state police, who as I understand it are the ones who maintain that database. I agree we need to have some changes in regards to this system. Although, my vote would be for abolishing it alltogether, rather than having them clarify it. Seems things have been getting more and more pro-gun around here lately, maybe now's the time to try for some changes.

On a side note, sounds like we share the same stomping grounds :) What ranges around here do you shoot at? I've been going to The Firing Line off of Ford and Hix. It's the closest I've been able to find to my house. Maybe we can get together and hit the range sometime :)

Chris

[JohnKSa]

If it's just a safety inspection, why do you have to give them the serial number? Does the law actually require them to take the serial number?

[creitzel]

If it's just a safety inspection, why do you have to give them the serial number? Does the law actually require them to take the serial number?

Because it really is a registration. In the laws it requires the handgun purchase to be recorded with the Michigan state police. This of course includes the purchaser, and the serial number. They like to call it a "safety inspection" to try and make it more palatable I guess. :barf:

[FJC]

I've often wondered if any pistols ever fail this so-called "safety inspection." If I brought in an obviously dangerous pistol, for example with a burst barrel, that I purchased with intent of rebuilding it, would they still issue me a safety certificate? :)

I'm thinking they would, after recording the serial number, of course...

[History Prof]

Oh, I get it! The "safety" part is that MI is going to be a SAFE place when they go door to door confiscating all of the "inspected" firearms! :barf:

Isn't MI the home of the Nuge? You guys gotta elect him governor!

[Barbara]

He moved to Texas.

I've never seen any gun, even one that doesn't function, fail the safety inspection.

[MikeyB]

Phenomenal responses - Thank you:

I contacted the Roseville (MI) record department inquiring into my permit approval; "...hasn't been approved yet. Check back Friday." :fire: It's been 10 business days today - Tuesday. Also, they informed me that this is a "standard waiting period.

Also told that if the permit expires, I have to complete the application and wait all over again...what a mess :cuss: Almost want to make you give up and surrender...NOT!

[thumbody]

Remember their responses the next election. The only purchase permit I needed took about 5-10 minutes.

[MikeyB]

The more I read and the more I call, the more "educated" I become. In Michigan, each city dictates their own "permit regulations"; some don't make you wait, others do. Roseville has a 10 day waiting period before they will issue or deny. If they issue and you don't purchase within 10 days, it's expired and has to be returned. In order to obtain another permit, you need to go through the process, including the wait, all over again! :mad:

If you don't live in a city with a local police department, you can go to your county Sheriff's office and obtain a permit to purchase. The sheriff's office will issue the permit on-the-spot and it's good for 10 days. After your purchase, you have 10 days to return and have the gun registered and inspected.

[htcw454]

1st expirence took a long time, 900,000 people and only one place to get permit. Day 1 machine to Lansing down. 5 dollars parking shot. 2nd day in and out 30 min.5 dollars parking. Already picked gun out. completed purchase and returned about 3 pm. Sorry closed for the day 5 dollars parking. Learned they open at 8am and was there waiting. Took 15 min. 5 others a head of me. 1 consolation, the officer that runs dept. looks real good.Also got number to that spec office to check that days condition. Call it what they want ( safety insp. pooo) More like registration. CPL on the way will still have to submit gun for reg...oops safety insp. Police dept not reluctant to issue, just busy and over worked with only one terminal. No mention of waiting period or Fee (except parking downtown).

[Barbara]

MikeyB, can you shoot me an email with as much detail as you can. They *cannot* make you wait. There is no waiting period. The fees are sort of vague and questionable but the law is clear on waiting periods: There are none.

I hope the AG opinion we've requested solves this but in the meantime, this pisses me off and I'm going to let them know.

[itgoesboom]

Wait, wait, wait.

Let me get this straight.

You have to have a "permit" to purchase a handgun? And then you have to take the permit and the handgun to the police, for registration? :scrutiny:

I thought only that nonsense would happen in liberal bastions such as California, New York, Chicago, etc.

Even up here in Oregon, where the state is ruled by the granola-crunchers in Portland, we don't have to have a permit, nor do we have to wait.

Is there any real effort to get this piece of junk legislation removed, or are all of you just kinda screwed with no real hope?

I.G.B.

[Barbara]

A little of both. The legislation was put in place back in the 20s as a way of keeping blacks from owning firearms.

http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=201&category=events

http://www.lp.org/lpn/9908-guns-racist.html

The last time I was at the Capitol, quite a few legislators had a book about Dr. Sweet, and it came up a lot during the Castle Doctrine discussions.

In a lot of ways, Michigan isn't bad. Shall-issue, preemption law (that some local juristictions seem to ignore), Castle Doctrine will probably pass soon, some other good stuff. But we have this left over registration scheme. I don't know what will happen. A lot will depend on the next election. Our current governor is a Democrat who as AG vehemently opposed Shall-Issue but has since signed every pro-gun bill that's come over her desk. Her Lt. Governor is very pro-gun. The other candidate this year is Dick Devos who I've spoken to personally about the issue (and who invited me to lunch to talk about it) and he seems to truly get it. His brother in law owns Blackwater, so maybe that helps. He's stated, in writing, that he supports the lifting of all restrictions on SBRs, etc.

We'll see, I guess, is the best I can say.

[creitzel]

I know I'll be voting for Devos this year. It's time for Granholm to go back to Canada :evil:

[Hemicuda]

Ypu mean y'all don't just "feel the love" from Governess Jenny??? shame on you!

(having said that, I can't believe Michigan voted that swine into office!)

[MikeyB]

Thank you!!! The email has been sent. The sad thing is that a gun dealer had a handgun that I wanted; brand-new GLOCK 23. However, he sold the last one yesterday and won't get a new stock in until sometime in the next few weeks. I've checked the other dealers and no one has one in stock. I'm getting deal from this dealer (family friend) that can't be beat so I'm sticking with him.

I just don't want to have to go through the "waiting period" again; this really puts a damper on your purchase plans and makes it extremely hard to coordinate a buy.

[creitzel]

...really puts a damper on your purchase plans...

Best bet when you have a specific gun that you want from a specific dealer, is to see if they will hold it for you, or allow you to put it on a lay-a-way plan. Most dealers will. Once they are holding it for you, then get your purchase permit.

Although, I'd have to say that with the 10 day waiting period in your area, I'd seriously be considering getting a CPL. I'm considering getting one here just because of a 2 day wait.

[MikeyB]

I'd seriously be considering getting a CPL

That's exactly what I plan on doing :evil:

[Barbara]

MikeyB is going to kick their butts. :D

[model 649]

Hey Mikey, I know where there is a brand-spankin' G-23 (saw it in the case today and it reminded me of this thread) Call these guys, their real good people:http://www.shootersservice.com/
Josh