Smith and Wesson Model 58


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Jaeger
April 25, 2003, 06:56 AM
I'm looking for some opinions. (there isn't anyone with opinions around here is there? :) )

I found a S&W 58 in a local shop. It has some holster wear but seems to be in good condition mechanically. It is an older version with the pinned barrel and recessed chambers. It looks like a Model 10 on steroids. I have a soft spot for the old heavy barrel model 10s and this 58 has just caught my fancy. He is asking $300 for it.

Who has them and how do you like them?

I'm not in the position to make the purchase outright so I would have to sell my Security Six to buy it. That old Six is a great little revolver and I'm not sure I want to part with it. I'm also not sure I want to tool up to reload another caliber.

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denfoote
April 25, 2003, 07:58 AM
Herr Hunter,

Is the gun likely to be sold fast??? If so, then ask the shop owner if he would take a deposit to hold the piece until you amassed the necessary funds!! Surely, $300 is not going to be a hardship to raise!!! Whether or not, I personally like the revolver is not the issue. You do!! Find a way to get it without sacrificing the Ruger!!
I sold my Taurus M605 some time back in order to purchase a gun for my wife. Although it was way worth it, I only now have been able to replace it!! Don't put yourself in that regrettable position!! :banghead:

Erich
April 25, 2003, 10:35 AM
Yup, a lot of us really like the M&P .41 mag. For $300.00 in that condition, I'd have that puppy on my credit card as fast as I could get my wallet out. I suspect I'm not the only one here on THR who feels that way. :)

Good find. If you decide not to buy it, you might consider letting us know where to call . . . ;)

Mike Irwin
April 25, 2003, 12:45 PM
Couple of years ago I bought a 99.9% 4" Model 58 for $300.

One of the best, funnest purchases I've ever made.

You don't say what barrel length it is (I THINK they were made in both 4 and 6, weren't they?), but if I were presented with the opportunity, even another one with a 4" barrel, I'd probably take it.

The .41 is largely a handloading proposition, and it is a DREAM to handload for. Easy to get exceptional accuracy with.

Of the factory ammo, Remington's 210-gr. JSP is a REAL thumper - roughly 1,250 fps at the muzzle for just shy of 730 ft. lbs. of energy. LOTS of kick and a muzzle blast that's very hard to describe in its intensity.

When I'm shooting the Remington ammo on the NRA range it never fails to bring some people over who are wondering why their ears are bleeding. :)

I've been handloading some 215-gr. hardcast lead bullets using 231 to about 950 fps. They work wonders on bowling pins.

ACP230
April 25, 2003, 01:02 PM
My last handgun purchase was a factory nickel M58. It is a neat gun with the pinned barrel and recessed chambers. It is quite accurate. I'd buy another for $300, if I could find one.

Mike Irwin's pin load is very close to the one I shot for a few years at the Second Chance Bowling Pin Shoot. My load used the same weight bullet and enough Unique to drive it at about 1,000 fps. The flat nose "bit" into the pins well and pins left the table quickly, in a shower of splinters.

Erich
April 25, 2003, 02:24 PM
ACP230, that sounds an awful lot like my range load! I run it in my 5.5" Redhawk and my 4 5/8" Blackhawk - sweet to shoot.

Mike, just wanted to chime in and agree with your ".41 mag. is a dream to handload for" observation! It's like the .38 special, only easier (cos it's big enough that my stupid fingers don't fumble so much) - I'm so happy with the .41 loads I make myself.

9mmepiphany
April 25, 2003, 04:34 PM
i have a blued m-58 which i picked up 20+ years ago at a pawn shop for about $180...it was pristine, but $300 for one noadays sounds pretty good.

i've had the action tuned and slipped on a pair of hogue rubber grips and it really sings. the balance is great and the looks you get when everyone thinks you are shooting a m-10 are really worth it. it is a bit big to carry, but it is a great house gun

Erich
April 25, 2003, 05:20 PM
Some of you have heard this before, as I've sung this lament on this and other boards already.

In '89 I was managing a gun store, and a 58 came through. The bluing was great, and it had been Magna-Ported and tuned. It was very, very nice. I could have gotten into it for $250. I didn't have the $, so I passed. :banghead:

Years later, I was shooting with a friend (whom I hadn't met till long after I passed on the 58). He pulls out the same 58 for which I'd been pining ever since I let it slip away. It was as nice as I remembered, and it shot as well as I'd hoped.

Twice a year I offer him $500 for it - he hasn't taken me up on it yet. :(

(And, now's the point in my lament where I blame L. Neil Smith's The Probability Broach for getting an impressionable young lad all excited about the 58 . . . )


Edited to add:
This thread reminded me of my obsession with this 58, so I spoke to my friend while commuting and offered to buy it again. He claims I've never offered him a specific $ figure before, and seemed a little impressed with the $500 . . . then he told me he got it for $250 from a guy who couldn't move it out of his shop. Anyway, my friend told me I could have it for $2500. . . .

Johnny Guest
April 25, 2003, 05:26 PM
Frankly, $300 sounds like a good price on the .41 M&P-- They've been going for fully as much as the model 57s in my area.

In your position, I'd be of two minds - - -

One: The M58 is a lot harder to find than a good .357 revolver. It would be hard to pass it by, even if you are temporarily without a .357.

Two: If the situation is such that it was actually a CHOICE between this .41 and your (any) .357 for an extended period, well, the .357 is a far more versatile revolver than the .41 mag. The Security Six (if a four-inch or shorter) is small and light enough to serve for daily concealed carry. Yeah, I know a couple of guys who claim to ALWAYS pack four-inch N-frames but they don't, really.

On the other hand, you show to be a handloader, which MIGHT mean you have a suitable concealment piece other than the Security Six.

As before, I'd sure try to find a way to have BOTH revolvers.:D

Best regards,
Johnny

41mag M&P
April 25, 2003, 06:54 PM
The 58 can be carried. I do it often.

The 58's are rare enough that I wouldn't pass one up if I had an opportunity like that. I'd probably even be willing to pay even more for the one you are describing.

As mentioned earlier, check to see if the shop will take a deposit to hold the gun. I know that many shops will.

PS If you decide not to get it, please pass the name/phone # of the shop to me. I kind of like those 58's. :D

caz223
April 25, 2003, 08:51 PM
I'd hesitate to list the things that I would do to find a 657, 57, or 58 in good to excellent condition for $300.00
The list would likely make for a very long post, and wouldn't be for the squeamish.
If you can feed your family, and pay your bills THIS MONTH, then RUN back to the gun store and buy it.
If you can't, find some way of holding it in layaway until you can.
Don't rule out begging. It works well sometimes.

Jaeger
April 25, 2003, 10:32 PM
So much for being talked out of buying it!!

I have a Glock 27 and a Taurus 85 that serve as my primary concealment weapons. I have carried the Six a few times but it's mostly for the range and in the field as a hunting/backup piece. I also have a very nice 686 from the Custom Shop so I would not be without a 357.

I am primarily interested in the 58 as a hunting/hiking/woods bumming piece. I looked at it again tonight. It needs to be refinished but it is buttery smooth and everything is tight and true. It also comes with a duty holster, 2 speed loaders and 2 boxes of ammo.

I'm going to call him tomorrow and have him put it back for me. I'll sell the Six to a friend of mine who has been hounding me for it since I bought it. I'd like to keep both but funds are tight. Extra $ need to go elsewhere. I'll pick up another Six or a 19 somewhere down the road.

Thanks for all the input. Now I need dies, brass, bullets........ oh boy!

Jaeger
April 26, 2003, 02:16 AM
Is anyone still making a good field holster for the 58?

Mike Irwin
April 26, 2003, 02:26 AM
Anything that will work for a 4" Model 29 will work for a 58, Jaeger.

And there are TONS of holsters made for 4" 29s.

Jaeger
April 26, 2003, 09:36 AM
Very good. I wasn't sure if they would work due to the M&P barrel profile.

ACP230
April 26, 2003, 09:55 AM
I bought a Street Combat holster from El Paso Saddlery for my M58. It seems like a good solid holster for the $48 I spent.

Ala Dan
April 26, 2003, 10:32 AM
Aw! the S&W model 58; one that always eluded me.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Mike Irwin
April 26, 2003, 03:18 PM
Jaeger,

Nah, you shouldn't run into any problems. The fact that it's fixed sights gives you a little extra room at the top rear of the holster.

Jaeger
April 26, 2003, 07:02 PM
Well, I am now minus 1 Ruger. The 58 came home with me today.

It seems to have spent a lot of time on the beat but it has been well cared for. Like I said, everything is tight. I can't wait to see how it shoots!

It will eventually go back to S&W to be blued. (bright blue or matte blue? Hmmmmm..... I'll have to think on that a while.)

Now I need dies, brass, bullets! Here we go again....:)

happy old sailor
April 27, 2003, 01:05 AM
agree with SaxonPig. all my handguns exibit some wear and tear, except a LNIB Trooper i picked up a few weeks ago. it looks good because i haven't had it very long.

a few scratches here and there, some holster wear. character.
i don't abuse'em, but, i sure as hell use'em. why i got'em.

were i a collector, it would be an entirely different story. had i an old, NIB 6" K19 with all the papers in the box, it would remain as is. a safe queen for generations, i would hope.

Jaeger
April 27, 2003, 01:21 AM
It may well stay as is. We'll have to see. It is definitely getting new grips. It came with a set of Pachmayr Presentation grips. I've always liked Hogues rubber grips. Has anyone tried their wood grips?

Mike Irwin
April 27, 2003, 03:14 AM
A factory refinish won't detract from the value all that much at all.

The Model 58s aren't rare by any stretch of the imagination, either, so it's going to be a long time before it gains any sort of true collector value over shooter value.

buttrap
April 27, 2003, 04:06 AM
when I bought my 57 hte guy also had a 58. He wanted 100 bucks more for the 58 than the 57 too.

Mike Irwin
April 27, 2003, 01:02 PM
Oops, Saxon, nearly 10,000 units made over almost 15 years does NOT quality as rare.

$650 NIB is not an uncommon price for a NIB .44 or even .357 Mag., either, and those are still in production.

Quite frankly, $650 for an NIB gun that's been out of production for close to 30 years, and wasn't made in the kind of numbers that the others were, is actually kind of low.

Don't try to throw a Triple Lock into the equasion. They haven't been made for 88 years, and with only 15,500 or so made, they've had a LOT longer to have attrition take its toll.

You actually think that Jaeger is going to live long enough to see the kind of prices on his 58 that are seen on the Triple Locks? I doubt it.

Let's see, 58 went out of production in 1978, that's 25 years.

Hey Jaeger, think you can hold on for another 53 years? What? Depends? Is that maybe, or what you'll be wearing by then? :)

Simple fact of the matter is that if you purchase guns for investments, they had BETTER be a lot rarer than the Model 58.

If they're not, you're going to be waiting a long time to get a true return on your investment. Oh, and don't even THINK of firing, handling, or otherwise using that "investment" gun, either. The tiniest finish blemish caused by mundane activities can, on a common gun, have a HUGE impact on it's "collector's" potential.

As for people collecting 58s. Sure there are. There are also people who collect Model 10s and Model 19s, and those are by no means uncommon guns. That means that there's someone to collect everything.

When it comes to collecting, though, one fact remains: Jaeger hasn't lucked into a pristine 58 with box, papers, and tools. It's alread taken a big hit for a collector from that sense alone.

From his described condition, most collectors won't be all that interested in it. Why? Because it's not really all that difficult to find a pristine Model 58 with box and goodies. Add to that the fact that the original numbered grips are gone, and you've got a shooter, NOT a collector grade gun.

Jaeger's gun has shooter value at this point in time. 50 years from now, IF he doesn't shoot it, it may have more value as a collectible, but that's likely true of just about any gun.

As I said, Jaeger, you're not going to do all that much damage to the guns' value by having Smith & Wesson refinish it. Yes, if a collector just had to have it at some point in the future the value would likely be diminished somewhat, but by having S&W refinish it the hit to value would be QUITE a bit less than were it to be done somewhere else.

So, my suggestion is that you do NOT look at your Model 58 as some sort of gold bar in the bank. It's not. If it were, my Model 58 would be platinum, as it's in a lot better shape and has the original numbered grips with it.

Mike Irwin
April 27, 2003, 11:35 PM
Saxon,

Most members of the S&W collector's society I've spoken with consider a gun rare when there are fewer than 500 made/known.

Triple Locks in calibers other than .44 Special? Uncommon to ULTRA rare, with the exception of the ones chambered in .455 for British & Canadian service. Of those .455s, ones that have NOT been converted to fire .45 ACP? Now they're extremely uncommon, or perhaps even rare.

N-frame in .30 Carbine? Very, very rare.

An 1896 I-frame Hand Ejector factory chambered in .32 S&W? Holy Grail.

More than 500 to about 2,500? Uncommon.

My S&W 042. Uncommon, but certainly findable. I'm one of at least 2, or possibly 3, people on this board to own one.

Anything over that? Production guns.

10,000 guns with 10,001 people seeking it doesn't make it rare. It makes it sought after.

Once again, you're not factoring in the time line difference between the Triple Lock and the Model 58. You can't make an adequate comparison for that reason and that reason alone.

How many Winchester 1873s were made? 100,000? And look at the prices they're bringing.

Why? Because good collector grade 1873s are increasingly few and far between. People see what collector grade 1873s are bringing, so they immediately assume that Granpaw's Crunchenticker, which served as a fence post for 25 years, after which it sat in the chicken coop for another 40 and can at best be certified a 100% piece of trash, is worth $1,500.

100 years is a long time for guns to get used, break, get turned into scrap metal, get lost.

As I noted, if Jaeger is alive in perhaps 50 to 70 years, then perhaps the 58 will truly be brining some collector grade prices.

I kind of doubt it, though.

Oh, and one of the major reasons why the Triple Lock wasn't made in greater numbers?

It didn't sell when it was new, either.

The first TRULY successful N-frame S&W had, barring war-time production orders, was the .357 Mag. People were SCREAMING for them, even in the middle of the Depression.

Jaeger
April 28, 2003, 05:10 AM
Well, this has certainly turned into an interestisting thread!!

If I'm still alive that long from now I'll be doing all of my bodily functions through a tube!

I'm a shooter first and a collector second. If I've got it, I'll shoot it. That's what these fine weapons are for. My M58 may have some collector value or it may not. Unless it turns out to be a real dog (I don't see that happening) this one is a keeper. There are very few guns in my collection that I am willing to part with. The Ruger was one of them.

If/when I get the gun reblued it will be by S&W.

Now if only I had time to go shoot it!! Hopefully Wed. or Thur.. This workin' for a living stinks!

Johnny Guest
April 28, 2003, 04:08 PM
As so eloquently stated above, it is YOUR revolver, and YOU are the only one to make happy.

A couple of examples, though, might be of interest.

When I was a teenager, I looked longingly at US 1917 Enfield rifles. Golden State Arms advertised them in VG to Exc condition for $37.50. Today, you would do well to buy one of those very rifles for ten times that amount - - - So long as it is in military trim. Never mind that they were made by the hundreds of thousands. Attrition, losses in action, sporterizing - -You name it. However many were made, however common they were in the late 1950s, TODAY you'd be hard put to find twenty for sale on the 'net. Unaltered, remember, but in any kind of safe shooting condition. But few collectors would give $150 for a choped-down, reblued 1917.

Probably the MOST common DA revolver is the Military & Police .38. The doggiest example in safe-to-shoot condition will bring $80 today. One with 60% original finish will run 150 to 200, depending on a lot of things.

I think it probable that more 58s were bought, either by agencies or by individual officers who didn't consider them anything special. It is easier to find a pristine GI 1911 than beautiful police issue revolver. Many thousand 1911 types never left the unit arms rooms or the Master at Arms locked on ship board. Police revolvers, though, were practically ALL issued to street cops. Therefore, the vast majority will show a good deal of holster wear, with the banged-up stocks from in-and-out of patrol car, over years of service.

Jaeger, different things are important to different people. I'd love to own a 58 just as you describe. A holster worn service revolver doesn't bother me at all. While I'm sure your new acquisition is not for sale, it would be worth more to me with 70% original finish than with a S&W factory reblue.

I'd pay more for a beat-up old New Century, though. :D

Best,
Johnny

theusualsuspect
August 24, 2008, 08:54 AM
That would be an "S" frame, (same size as an N frame). Probably 4 inch with fixed sites.

DON'T LET IT GET AWAY!!! If you buy it and don't like it for some reason, contact me I'll give you a profit on it! So you can't lose

Be sure to inspect the cylinder timing on any gun, especially one this old.

If you aren't sure how to do this it is this easy...

Very slowly pull the hammer back. Once it is locked in, grab the cylinder with your thumb on one side and index finger on the other and attempt to turn the cylinder. If timing is correct, the cylinder should not move.

If timing is incorrect the cylinder will move and lock, evident by a click sound.

Do this will all chambers.

If timing is out, it doesn't mean the gone is all that bad, just been a bit abused over time and still a reliable shooter. Timing can be fixed by a good gunsmith, or can be done yourself if you have minor knowledge if the internal workings of a revolver.

Hope this helps you.

theusualsuspect
August 24, 2008, 09:03 AM
BTW...Unless the finish is really junk, I'd highly recommend you keep it original. I wouldn't have it refinished, even by S&W. They can do bad work , (I know form experience), just like anyone else.

Although you'll use it as a shooter, you still may want to consider the resale value for the future. This piece in original finish will be much more appealing to a future potential buyer if you ever found yourself in the need or desire to resell it.

22-rimfire
August 24, 2008, 09:17 AM
I suspect that gun is long gone by now and may have been sold several times in 5 years. Check the posting date. Welcome to the forum usualsuspect.

By the way, I like 41 mags too. :)

SaxonPig
August 24, 2008, 09:22 AM
Wait until he posts news that S&W signed a deal with the Clinton Justice Department!

Bush Pilot
August 24, 2008, 07:34 PM
Nice buy on the 58, your gun is a shooter, enjoy it and don't worry about it's future price. About 10 years ago I was in my favorite gun shop when I saw the gun clerk opening older S & W boxes he'd found in a cabinet in the basement of the store, there was nothing newer than 20 years old. One of the guns was a NIB 58, when I showed interest he said I could have it for $250.00, I think I tore the pocket in my jeans to get my wallet. BTW, it's still NIB sleeping in my safe.

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