.35 vs 45/70


PDA






Kentucky
May 8, 2006, 09:24 PM
Well my bonus has rolled around again and I am looking at my next firearm purchase. My last purchase was an AR-15, this time I have a yearning for a real elephant killer. From what I have read a 45/70 is probably what I am looking for, but I have been offered a Marlin 336 in .35 for $250, which is a lot cheaper than I have been able to find any 45/70's. I am not really familiar with this caliber, so I am turning to you guys for advice. Which direction would you go? I am hopeful that I will be able to move to Alaska in the spring of next year so I am obviously thinking about the big toothy critters. Below are the factors I am considering:

POWER!

Cost of the rifle

Cost of the ammo

Availability of ammo

Edit: Or should I just buy a good 30-30 and hope that 6 from it is enough for anything I have to stop?

If you enjoyed reading about ".35 vs 45/70" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
M.E.Eldridge
May 8, 2006, 09:36 PM
What are you planning to use it for? What do you need to stop? I wouldn't use either for big/dangerous game like Elephant. If you want real stopping power look into the classic African cartridges, my favorite of which is the .375 H&H. To answer one of your questions, I've never seen a box of .35 at the local shops,but I always see plenty of 45-70. I would assume 45-70 is made by more companies than .35 so you should be able to find some ammo for your price range/purposes more easily. One more thing;do you handload?

Kentucky
May 8, 2006, 09:42 PM
I dont do my own loading right now. However, I have the whole bug pretty bad so that is a project I will probably get started with after I get married in June.

The main thing I am thinking about are the big bears outside Palmer, Ak (which is where I am trying to move) and any type of strung out druggie who may choose to enter my house at an inopportune time. I know that good placement with my AR, or .357 revolver would suffice perfectly for two legged assailants, but I want something that will hit like a train, that I can have confidence will knock 'em down and keep 'em down.

kentucky_smith
May 8, 2006, 09:53 PM
That 35 sounds good for the price. You could get a 45/70 in an NEF for cheap, check out graybeardoutdoors and www.hr1871.com.

They've got a regular rifle, or the buffalo classic:

http://www.hr1871.com/Images/photo_ultra_buffalo.jpg

Cosmoline
May 8, 2006, 10:08 PM
How far outside of Palmer? If it's The Butte, forget the .45-70 and bring the M-2 :D There are worse things than bears around those parts.

The .35 is pretty much of a dead cartridge here now. I remember when K-Mart shut down their stores the last things to sell from the gun section were a stack of .35 and a stack of .38 S&W. But that's no reason not to use the cartridge. You can find it for sale at most shops around town (though the boxes may be a bit dusty), and it would be fine for moose or black bear in a hot 200 grain loading. Would it stop a charging brown bear? Who knows. Sometimes not even a .375 H&H will do that. And IIRC Judge Folta used to use the .35 out of a Remington Auto against all sorts of brownies with great success, so it can be done at least at close range. I can tell you I'd much rather shoot one than a .338. The price sounds very good, but keep in mind resale market up here is going to be so-so for a rifle in a disrespected chambering. But if you get up here and decide you want to upgrade, I'll take that Marlin from you at cost :D

Kentucky
May 8, 2006, 10:12 PM
Cosmoline,

Your generosity is overwhelming, I dont even know where to begin. :D

As much as I am REALLY tempted to buy the .35 at what seems like a good price, I should probably wait and put that money towards a 45/70 or a 375.

And oh yes, the M2 is the verrrry next thing I will be buying, I am going to empty out my penny jar tomorrow to see if I have enough yet.

rbernie
May 8, 2006, 11:20 PM
I think that the 35 Remington is a great chambering for big thin-skinned stuff (it has plenty of SPLAT within 150-200 yards, and works great on hogs and deer) but it would not be my choice for anything with teeth-n-claws.

Jim Watson
May 8, 2006, 11:26 PM
.35 Remington is about a quarter notch above .30-30. It is still one of what used to be listed as a "deer and black bear" round. Not my first choice in Alaska.

A .45-70 Marlin lever action is substantially more powerful, especially in the Buffalo Bore and Garrett high end loads. I would not want to depend on a single shot. The mountain men did, but that is all they had and sometimes they got et or scalped.

Gordon
May 9, 2006, 01:46 AM
Garret and Buff bore both make .35 rem loads of 220 grain bullets at 2200 fps. IMHO the .35Rem in a 336 is about perfect for anything under 600 pounds and less than 150 yards. My experience on hogs with 200 grain loads at 2200 fps+ has been almost the same as 300 grain loads at 1800fps out of the 45-70 .Yes the 45-70 has an advantage with heavy loads on game over 600 pounds, but not in range. The price of 45-70 ammo is considerably greater. .35 ammo is at least as common as 45-70 IMHO. Being your getting a good old .35 Rem Marlin for cheap I wouldn't look back. I think a 200 grain core loktd would do a grizz as well as needed with the 6 fast shots available in the 336.But hey I'd rather have a .375 if I knew I was after a grizz. I've only shot one brownie and one silver grizz in my life time. I used a .338 for the Brownie with 300 grain Win Factory ammo! And a .358 Norma with 250 grain ammo for the grizz.So I am not an expert but thats how I feel about it.

frosty
May 9, 2006, 06:13 AM
I picked up a Buff Classic in 45-70...What a great gun! I shoot black powder as well as H777 in mine(Thig gun is rated at 95 Marlin pressuers for smokeless loads also) There are many bullets available in 45 caliber, and this ctg. can be loaded down so that it is easy on the shoulder-(for killing paper&varmints). The geat Elmer Kieth once said: It lets plenty of air in, and lots of blood out! I installed a creedmoor sight on mine, and clay birds are easy at 300 yds!:evil:

The Real Hawkeye
May 9, 2006, 05:37 PM
They are both for shots under 200 yards. The .45-70, though, is far and away more powerful, in terms of knock down power. Probably nothing in North American that could stand up to a solid hit with one, using the right load. The .35 Remington, though, is hardly a charge stopper.

OldSchooler
July 4, 2006, 02:45 PM
Can you work with me to get the .35 Remmy for that price? Ill buy it!

Duckster
July 4, 2006, 03:31 PM
Hello, I own a Marlin .35 for years. It was left to me from my father. It is an excellant rifle as well a round. At 90 feet a can shoot a dime with the scope as well as the iron sights. This sounds like a steal. I would never get rid of mine for sentimental and practical reasons. A very dependable rifle. I have found two basic rounds for it. Smaller pointier round and larger rounded rounds. They both work very well. I believe this is an outstanding bush gun. If there are any questions of me?
dgaejohnson@elp.rr.com

Duckster

Vern Humphrey
July 4, 2006, 04:44 PM
For that price, you can get the .35 Rem, have it in a top-quality repeating rifle, and buy a reloading set, brass and components -- and still have money left over, compared to the cost of a lever-action .45-70.

JohnKSa
July 6, 2006, 12:06 AM
The .35Remington appears to have been the round that got the biggest boost in the Hornady LeverEvolution lineup.

I don't know much about the cartridge's traditional performance, but now you can get a 200gr pointed bullet safe for tubular magazines that will exit the muzzle at 2225fps. Should give you a better trajectory than a typical 30-30 round out past 200 yards.

Hollowdweller
July 22, 2006, 10:33 PM
I love my Marlin .35. It was the first gun I ever bought for myself with money from my paper route when I was 15(1975)

I've shot many deer with it but I would say that the stopping power with handloads is about double factory for me. In recent years I have been using factory stuff and it kills them but sometimes they run 15 or 20 yards. With the handloads I can't remember the specifics except I used a 200 grain RN it often would almost flip average sized whitetails over.

Like the fellow said above this it's an awesome shooter. They are not that rare around here. Almost every gun store has one or two and ammo is easy to find in almost every store too.

OldSchooler
July 23, 2006, 12:54 PM
Most people look at you funny around here - Aiken, SC - when you ask if it's a .35 Remington. The usual response is, "No, it's not a Remington, it's one of them Marlins..."

Ammo, too is anything but plentiful. Most stores carry, like, one box of it and they always blow the dust off of it when they take it off the shelf.

But none of that matters to me. Ill get it anyway and all the ammo I can find, wherever I can find it.

mete
July 23, 2006, 01:00 PM
If you handload and like the AR-15 platform you could get a 458 SOCOM !! 45-70 performance on the AR-15 platform .

mc223
July 23, 2006, 04:39 PM
I have a 35 Rem model 336 Marlin. Fine deer, hog and Black Bear cartridge. The Price is good. I don't think I would go up against a Brown Bear with the 35. Somewhere around 300 lbs would be the end of it's useful ballistics.
The introduction of the Hornady LeverEvolution has proven to be the most beneficial in 35 Rem. I can now shoot confidently out to 200 yds.

Gordon
July 23, 2006, 05:19 PM
While have not shot an elk with the .35 Rem personally, I can tell you from personal experience even the 200 grain factory Core-lotk'd ammo kill well on 400 pound game to 150 yards. So does the 45-70 and even bigger game too-if you ever hunt it! Nothing like a Marlin 336 .35 Rem for Eastern game IMHO. That's why I lusted and got one for my 19th birthday some 40 years ago!

OldSchooler
July 23, 2006, 05:42 PM
Here's the original post's salient points:
I am looking at my next firearm purchase...this time I have a yearning for a real elephant killer.
Wow! where do you live?
a 45/70 is probably what I am looking for, but I have been offered a Marlin 336 in .35 for $250, which is a lot cheaper than I have been able to find any 45/70's.
I dont know if I'd consider the 45/70 an elephant killer, although it undoubdtedly has done so somewhere in Africa, at some point in time. If, on the other hand, you expect to have a heavy bore gun in your battery against the need to hunt large and/or dangerous game - well, I can think of another with a bit more versatility. Read on.

I am not really familiar with this caliber (.35 Remington)...Which direction would you go?
I like the .35 Remmy any way you shake it. In fact I like 9MM bores period, so I'm biased.
At $250 for a nice Marlin, though, Id jump on it - just because. However, let's stick to your situation shall we?

I am hopeful that I will be able to move to Alaska in the spring of next year so I am obviously thinking about the big toothy critters. Below are the factors I am considering:
POWER!
Cost of the rifle
Cost of the ammo
Availability of ammo

Well, in AK you should likely be able to find 45/70 ammo pretty regular, as its a popular choice for your needs, and a good chioice for a North American big bore. Without being there, Im certain there're plenty of folks in AK who shoot one, for all the same reasons you named, and do so with aplomb.

If it were me, I'd go a lightly different route. As I said, I am big fan of .35 bores and there is one that fills the bill pretty admirably and isnt too obscure. Of course, Im talking about the .358 Winchester. I'd opt for a BLR in that caliber and go on the scout for ammo. Wanna know how to find ammo for it in AK? Search the Internet for some suppliers up there and then email them or pick up your cell phone and call ahead! Likely its there, considering it's virtues.

No less an authority than Chuck Hawks lists it in the category of desirable medium bore rifles, able to take elk, kudu, moose and bear. Other cartridges in the class include such notables as .338WM, .35 Whelen, .340 Wthby Mag, .350 RemMag and the .375 H&H. Pretty notable company.

Power is present in abundance, but it has better range with flatter trajectories than the 45/70, with it's honking big lead and rainbow trajectory. Consider this a .308 necked out to .358 and loaded to the max. In close, where flat shooting and long range isnt an issue, a powerful, fast handler is in order. The Marlin in 45/70 would do nicely. However, with the .358 Win, you would be prepped for toothy critters about as well as you could be AND have the option of toting the same gun for 200+ yd shots at other large game, like elk and moose. That's versatility, brother.

Neither it nor the 45/70 is going to be a cheap-o shooter, though good ammo, when you need it the most, is worth almost any cost. Besides, if you're using up more than 2-3 boxes a year (40-60 rounds), you should be reloading anyway.

Edit: Or should I just buy a good 30-30 and hope that 6 from it is enough for anything I have to stop?
Your choice, I suppose. Lets face it in AK, large bears are going to be to your main worry (I havent heard of any tigers or Cape Buffalo up there.) SO, If I were going face to face against toothsome critters in the 500+ pound range, like a bear, Id leave my .30-30 at home and take the .358 Win BLR. Or the 45/70. Again, the choice is yours.

If you enjoyed reading about ".35 vs 45/70" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!