Range Report: Subgun Fun


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ACP230
May 9, 2006, 11:58 AM
After a while just banging away with subguns gets old.
So, last time my buddies and I got together we tried these courses.

Subgun Mozambique

One silhouette target at five yards.
Subgun loaded with at least 20 rounds.

Course Of Fire:
One burst into the body of the target, followed by a burst to the head.
Must have at least four rounds in the body and two in the head or shooter will be declared dead on the spot.

(The head shots were surprisingly difficult to do. Folks tended to pull them off onto the edges of the target more than I expected. One shooter got an nice COM group, but it was only three rounds. He was declared dead. )


Seven And Seven

Two silhouette targets at five yards.
Subgun and two magazines. One magazine loaded with three rounds, one with at least 20.

Course Of Fire:
Fire the first mag of three rounds into the first target. Reload with the full magazine and fire enough rounds into the first target to get at least seven hits. Fire at least seven rounds into the second target. No penalty for more than seven shots in either target. Less than seven shots in either means the shooter is declared dead.

(I put eight shots into the first target. I figured I'd shot 11 or 12.)


Steel Your Courage

Three steel targets on stands at 40 yards. (Ours were about 18 inches high by seven inches wide.)
Subgun loaded with a magazine with at least 20 rounds.

Course Of Fire:
With subgun on full auto only knock over all three targets.
Failure to knock over all targets with one magazine means shooter is declared dead.

This turned out to be pretty easy. We timed a few people and one guy did it in 5 seconds with a Reising M50 and handloads.

To make things more interesting, next time I plan to short load the magazines for all these.

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Dave R
May 10, 2006, 12:31 AM
Sounds like a lot more fun than putting lots of holes in paper targets.

ACP230
May 10, 2006, 07:35 AM
The silhouettes were paper targets. I like to use International Rapid Fire Silhouettes because I got a bunch cheap years ago.

We've used all steel target arrays at times. We've set up a handgunner against a subgunner with seven steel targets and an eighth target in the middle between the two sets. First one to shoot all of his targets, get to the middle target and knock it down won. It wasn't always the subgunner who won, either.

444
May 10, 2006, 07:47 AM
IMO, seriously shooting machine guns is a very eye opening experience. Especially shooting on paper.
In other words, shooting for accuracy is tough.
One varible that I think you need to add: keeping all the rounds on paper, or accounting for every shot. In other words, you can't have stray rounds zinging off into space: every round has to impact the target.



I took a formal subgun class as well as a formal M16 class. They expected us to train as if we were using these guns as members of law enforcement where you can't have stray rounds. We then determined how far away we could be before we had to switch over to semi-auto because past that distance we were unable to control the gun to keep all rounds on the target. Putting seven rounds on target is one thing, firing seven rounds (in a burst) and having all seven rounds on the target is another story. Or, firing shorter bursts but still not "overspraying" the target would obviously be the way to go: just as long as you are still on full auto (for purposes of this game).

ACP230
May 10, 2006, 08:15 AM
We were close and the silhouettes are big, so all rounds were on the paper target.

The steel at 40 yards was missed now and then.

One of the subguns, a 9mm Madsen M50, has no semi setting. It does have a slow rate of fire, about 600 rpm. Some folks can do single rounds from it pretty easily. I can do two rounders if I concentrate, but usually three round bursts is what I get.

The other two were Reisings in .45 ACP. I have a hard time getting under four shots per burst with Eugene Reising's pride and joy, but my buddies were able to fire one shot on FA occasionally.

mec
May 10, 2006, 09:59 AM
This is an M1 thompson from 1942 or so. by that time, they had slowed the cycle rate down pretty far and you can get off one round on full auto pretty easily.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39798&stc=1&d=1147269371
Most of us can control three round bursts very well but this guy can really hold it down.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39799&stc=1&d=1147269232
After some practice, I was able to do this at 25 yards. "Bursts" range from one to three rounds
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39800&stc=1&d=1147269232

ACP230
May 11, 2006, 09:22 AM
I've fired several Thompsons.
I like the M1s too.

Unfortunately, I got in the game too late to be able to afford one.

mec
May 11, 2006, 11:38 AM
Me too. this one belongs to a retired arkansas state trooper who bought it from Interarmco in 1967

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