Police Stepping Up Patrols (Mpls/St Paul)


PDA

mpthole
April 25, 2003, 11:01 AM
St. Paul, Minneapolis police step up patrols

Minneapolis police are implementing a seasonal crime prevention strategy a month early on the North Side in response to a rise in recent weeks in the number of reports of gunshots being fired.

The Fourth Precinct normally has two sets of officers for the Community Response Team (CRT), focusing on gang and drug activity, but a third is added in the summer months.

"These are community response officers, not crime response officers," Third Ward City Council Member Don Samuels said at the announcement Thursday night. "These officers will be here because the community wants them here."

Mayor R.T. Rybak, Police Chief Robert Olson and Lt. Otto Wagenpfeil joined Samuels in announcing the measures.

Wagenpfeil said CRT officers will be paying extra attention to tasks such as traffic enforcement, adding that people should always carry identification.

As an example, Wagenpfeil said, people spotted jaywalking might be stopped. On three occasions last year, police who stopped bicyclists for not stopping at stop signs found that the bicyclists were carrying assault rifles, he said.

Howie Padilla

Comments?

If you enjoyed reading about "Police Stepping Up Patrols (Mpls/St Paul)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
pax
April 25, 2003, 11:07 AM
Wagenpfeil said CRT officers will be paying extra attention to tasks such as traffic enforcement, adding that people should always carry identification.
"Your papers, please."

My country is dying. And no one cares.

pax

In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. -- George Orwell

J Miller
April 25, 2003, 11:17 AM
PAX,

A lot of us care. But somewhere a snowball of socialism got started and as it's rolled through time it's grown huge.
From my perspective it started in the late 50's to 60's. Most people ignored it at first, while the anti-American liberals worked quietly and diligently behind the scenes to destroy this country and our way of life.
As bad as the gun control fight is, I believe it is a smoke screen to distract us from the big picture. The overall destruction of our country.
Only recently am I reading that local governments are stepping up and saying a symbolic "NO" to the feds. Quite a few of the Western States are fighting the feds over State Rights issues. And then there is us, who are fighting for our gun rights.

So, we care. We just haven't caught up to the battle front yet.

Jeff White
April 25, 2003, 11:20 AM
Once again, we're getting into the endless debate over police power and the right of people to go about their business.

I didn't see any thing in the article suggesting that people would be randomly stopped for an ID check. I did see a statement that the unit would enfoce laws that are routinely ignored. So I guess if you intend to jaywalk, ride your bike on the wrong side of the road or the sidewalk, or litter etc. It would behoove you to carry some ID because you will probably be cited for it. Don't do those things and you can probably go about your business.

This approach has worked in almost every place it's been tried. Take care of the little crimes and the big crimes seem to drop....

I don't suppose we'll ever strike a balance that will suit everyone.....

Jeff

CZ-75
April 25, 2003, 12:12 PM
I didn't know I was REQUIRED to carry ID except as the operator of a motor vehicle, in which case my driver's license and ID are one in the same.

If they want to cite me, fine. Just don't expect me to produce ID.

benewton
April 25, 2003, 12:58 PM
There are multiple approaches to "getting the people under control". About the best underground method I've heard of is to make so many laws that you, by merely living normally, will break at least one.

Then offer informers rewards, and the game is on!

That, of course, leaves out probable cause, and all of the other "crap" that you can, if accused, defend yourself against, given, of course, that you've the time and money to do so.

I think that the ball's already about half way down the staff, but I'm not sure I can see the way to make it rise back up.

So, remember your ID, and don't, under the strict rule of the law, leave home without it.

Kharn
April 25, 2003, 01:06 PM
Wagenpfeil said CRT officers will be paying extra attention to tasks such as traffic enforcement, adding that people should always carry identification.

Seems their legal department isnt up on current case law. The Supreme Court has stated that the police cannot require people to carry ID while walking (I would assume this also extends to bicycles, unless they have a bicycle operator's license or something).

Kharn

cslinger
April 25, 2003, 01:07 PM
who stopped bicyclists for not stopping at stop signs found that the bicyclists were carrying assault rifles, he said.


You know I'll admit I am not the most observant guy all the time but I am pretty sure I would notice the guy on a schwinn with an AR15 or AK47. I mean come on are they sure they didn't mean assault pistols or GI JOE toys.


I mean I might be thinking, "Hey cool, you don't see that everyday." But I am pretty sure I would see this.

Chris

tommytrauma
April 25, 2003, 01:15 PM
I didn't know I was REQUIRED to carry ID except as the operator of a motor vehicle, in which case my driver's license and ID are one in the same.

If they want to cite me, fine. Just don't expect me to produce ID.
While you're not required to carry ID, police do have the authority (Notice I said authority, not right) to detain you until your ID can be confirmed, assuming they had a legit reason to stop you.

Those of you who complain about papers and ID make me wonder what you feel so guilty about. I mean after all, isn't the inconvenience of the occasional random stop and frisk worth it if it makes us safer? The federal goverment is simply trying to keep us safe, and we all know they have our best interests at heart. The occasional street corner strip search, the monitoring of our activities, the implanted tracking chips are simply tools to keep us safe. We need to do it for the children's sake.

spacemanspiff
April 25, 2003, 02:19 PM
i went to st paul last summer for some training, stayed at a nice hotel, the works... my coworker and i found a small diner like it was out of the '30s or something and we asked the people in our training if they'd ever eaten there. their response was as if we asked them if they ever considered hacking off a limb. they said "you dont want to go there, it gets a real seedy clientele".
my coworker and i decided to go anyways. they served about the best damn food i've had in a restaurant, better than the $300 dinner at the hotels restaurant, better than the $400 dinner at a high class restaurant we went to the next night. what was so seedy about it? a couple of non-white patrons.

from what i could tell and what minnesotans had to say about their fine city, its relatively safe. more crime occurs in minneapolis than st paul. but obviously their "threat assessment" is off kilter. probably explains why they accept COMMUNITY patrols so readily.

just another measure to keep the sheeple thinking they are secure. getting asked to procure ID is right up there with "dont lock your luggage we might want to peruse it and try on your clothes" or "dont look at the national guard serviceman that carries a rifle but has no ammo loaded in it".

:barf: :barf: :barf:

keyhole
April 25, 2003, 02:28 PM
Carrying " assault rifles" on bikes???? Reeeeeaaaal covert.:rolleyes:

ball3006
April 25, 2003, 02:31 PM
to work full time 365 days a year to enforce the laws of the land. It seems that the police do nothing unless they can get a federal grant to enforce some law or other. It sure has changed since I was a cop 20 years ago. Maybe it is just a big city thing......chris3

fish2xs
April 25, 2003, 02:33 PM
IMHO, I believe that the police are doing what most law abiding citizens want them to do - which is protect them in the most efficient way possible. How is this done?

Racial profiling.

Most of the violent crimes today are committed by young, minority males. I believe that the 'jay walking' warning was the wink and nod as to what the real intentions of the police department are - they just can't say it.

I don't think that if I was dressed in a suit & tie, and crossed a street not near a corner in MN/StP, that I would be frisked at gunpoint.

I would not get worked up over this....

MrKandiyohi
April 25, 2003, 03:01 PM
i went to st paul last summer for some training, stayed at a nice hotel, the works... my coworker and i found a small diner like it was out of the '30s or something

Sounds like Mickie's Diner on 7th(?). Haven't been there for many years.


In regards to the jaywalking, MN passed a law a year or two ago that made it illegal for a vehicle to enter a crosswalk (which had no traffice light) while a pedestrian has walking in it. It was supposed to cut down on car/pedestrian accidents and give enforceable criteria as to when a driver broke the law. The flip side was that jaywalking was considered a more ticketable offense because it was supposed to be safer to use the crosswalks than simply cross the street wherever.

I think the bicyclists were using the 'assault rifles' as extra kickstands.

spacemanspiff
April 25, 2003, 03:18 PM
yeah, mickies was the diner! never has a greasy burger and greasier homefries tasted so good.

Ol' Badger
April 25, 2003, 03:19 PM
You crack me up boy:D I'll keep meself safe and the Govt. can do what it does best! Burning homes with women and children inside them. Oh yea. Almost forgot, shooting mothers holding babies too!

TarpleyG
April 25, 2003, 04:16 PM
On three occasions last year, police who stopped bicyclists for not stopping at stop signs found that the bicyclists were carrying assault rifles, he said.
Prove it!!! I don't buy this BS at ALL!!! What are the likelihoods that not one, but THREE, different people on bicycles were carrying assault rifles in a single year in a single city and were stopped by police. The odds must be better to win the lottery.

GT

Standing Wolf
April 25, 2003, 05:04 PM
police who stopped bicyclists for not stopping at stop signs found that the bicyclists were carrying assault rifles, he said.

Actually, if the article is from the Minneapolis Red Star Tribune, the term "assault rifle" includes potato guns, spit balls in soda straws, sling shots, and rubber band guns with certain characteristics.

Kharn
April 25, 2003, 05:06 PM
TarpleyG:
I wouldnt be surprised if it was a college kid "pulled over" three times while taking a bikeride to his favorite indoor range with his 10/22 in a case on his back, or something equally stupid.

Kharn

dustind
April 25, 2003, 06:48 PM
i live in plymouth, no too far from stpaul, all they mean is that they will be generating revinue by makeing up traffic violations.

Its not uncommon to see twelve police cars sitting in the ditch on highway 169 pulling everyone over for the most bs reasons.

As for jay walking, as long as your white, and not dressed poorly you have nothing to worry about. :banghead:

I just love all these laws on the books, it is impossible to drive a car without giveing the cops reasonable suspicion to pull you over. My brother was pulled over a few days ago for too much tint. His car has factory untinted windows, the cop literally stuck his head in his car to look around, then let him go. :fire:

TheeBadOne
April 25, 2003, 08:15 PM
I didn't know I was REQUIRED to carry ID except as the operator of a motor vehicle, in which case my driver's license and ID are one in the same.
Fair enough, but don't complain when you are hauled down to the station for booking (photographing and fingerprinting) to ensure you're not giving a false name (a hobby of bad guys). Booking can take as long as 1 1/2 hrs in busy places. Got time to kill?

bigjim
April 25, 2003, 09:56 PM
Fair enough, but don't complain when you are hauled down to the station for booking (photographing and fingerprinting) to ensure you're not giving a false name (a hobby of bad guys). Booking can take as long as 1 1/2 hrs in busy places. Got time to kill?

Yes and so does my lawyer. I like Police, I respect them. They are important.

That is why I will drive thirty miles out of my way to avoid a sobriety check point. I don't want to have to shoot a policeman forced to act a like a Nazi.

LiquidTension
April 25, 2003, 10:43 PM
These guys have obviously never heard of the Kansas City experiment :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ReadyontheRight
April 25, 2003, 11:14 PM
i went to st paul last summer for some training, stayed at a nice hotel, the works... my coworker and i found a small diner like it was out of the '30s or something

Mickey's is great. I can't believe your co-workers thought it was dangerous. They must be from the 'burbs.

SteelyDan
April 26, 2003, 12:51 AM
It does sound like what the NYC cops did under Guilliani [sp?]; hassle the lawbreakers for the little stuff, just to get their attention, and the big crimes started to go way down, too. I can live with that.

As for Mickey's, yeah, it's really a terrifying venue. Not.

Zander
April 26, 2003, 02:14 AM
While you're not required to carry ID, police do have the authority (Notice I said authority, not right) to detain you until your ID can be confirmed, assuming they had a legit reason to stop you.Well, there you go...any reason they choose to stop you is going to be considered a legitimate reason until you and your high-priced lawyer prove differently.

IOW, exactly the opposite as specified in the US Constitution, which was written to restrict the authority of the federal gov't and to ensure the unrestricted Rights of American citizens.

Your asserted "authority" is in no shape, form or fashion different from the that of the Nazi SS which typically demanded: "Your papers, please!"

Goet
April 26, 2003, 12:06 PM
Those of you who complain about papers and ID make me wonder what you feel so guilty about. I mean after all, isn't the inconvenience of the occasional random stop and frisk worth it if it makes us safer? The federal goverment is simply trying to keep us safe, and we all know they have our best interests at heart. The occasional street corner strip search, the monitoring of our activities, the implanted tracking chips are simply tools to keep us safe. We need to do it for the children's sake.

I had to reread this before I lost my lunch.

;)

benewton
April 26, 2003, 01:22 PM
Since when are we safer, and from whom?

12-34hom
April 26, 2003, 02:00 PM
Yea, and while were at it why don't we all just move back to the fifties and Mayberry while where at it. yea that's the ticket.

We could all drive up in the clown car.

12-34hom.

Oleg Volk
April 26, 2003, 02:59 PM
That is why I will drive thirty miles out of my way to avoid a sobriety check point. I don't want to have to shoot a policeman forced to act a like a Nazi.

THAT is why Enemies Foreign and Domestic struck such a chord with me. Read the "Roadblock (http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/excerptlast.htm)" chapter. Opinions on what to do about them differ and range from "they are benigns, cooperate" to "use mortars". It is only thanks to knowing folks like Law Dog, Jeff White and Corochach that mine is somewhere in the middle of that range.

spacemanspiff
April 26, 2003, 04:21 PM
Mickey's is great. I can't believe your co-workers thought it was dangerous. They must be from the 'burbs
the ones who discouraged us from going there worked at The St Paul Insurance Company, i think that diner is on their block at the rear of their building, if i'm not mistaken. my coworker and i realized just how much exposure they have had to the blue collar workers.. hehe
but they wound up saying they might have to try the diner out since we came back unscathed. :D a couple of them turned out to be gunny's as well, they asked us if "everyone in alaska has houses full of guns"? my coworker said she doesnt so i piped in "yeah i make up for her lack".

tommytrauma
April 27, 2003, 02:08 PM
Zander:
Your asserted "authority" is in no shape, form or fashion different from the that of the Nazi SS which typically demanded: "Your papers, please!"
It's not MY asserted authority. I chose my words carefully. Don't assume that I support something simply because I describe it.

tommytrauma
April 27, 2003, 02:17 PM
Since when are we safer, and from whom?
Why, those assault rifle wielding domestic terrorists, of course. haven't you been paying attention?

Let me ask you this; Have you heard of a SINGLE drive by bayonetting since the assault weapon ban? Proof that this type of law works, right there.

Feanaro
April 27, 2003, 02:30 PM
They don't require you to have your ID they merely say you should. If a police officer simply walked up to me and asked me for my ID I would tell him in no uncertain terms where he can stick it. But if you are pulled over for speeding, stopped for jaywalking and such then they will want your ID and I see no reason why you shouldn't. But you shouldn't be required to carry "papers".

pax
April 27, 2003, 03:55 PM
But if you are pulled over for speeding, stopped for jaywalking and such then they will want your ID and I see no reason why you shouldn't. But you shouldn't be required to carry "papers".
Sure, Feanaro.

The problem is, there are so many laws now -- so many stupid, piddling, pissant, pathetic little laws -- that it is difficult to walk down the street without breaking one of them.

One summer I lived in a town with many inviting bike paths; the town required all bicycles in town (even the one belonging to my 2 year old) to have a permit from the city council. Yes, really. Of course it was never enforced -- unless the police were having an exceptionally boring shift and the bicycle rider had annoyed them in some way. There was no real purpose to the law, except to raise revenue and to give police a reason to stop anyone riding a bicycle at any time, look at their papers, and ask nosy questions.

Millions of laws like that throughout the country. And it is getting worse.

pax

To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt. -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

TheeBadOne
April 27, 2003, 08:49 PM
Yes and so does my lawyer. I like Police, I respect them. They are important.

That is why I will drive thirty miles out of my way to avoid a sobriety check point. I don't want to have to shoot a policeman forced to act a like a Nazi.

Can you believe this? And you wonder why some people want to take away your guns... :rolleyes:

Nice ammo for the anti's... :banghead:

moa
April 28, 2003, 02:15 PM
Here is what the ACLU says about non-traffic police stops. I got this on a handly little wallet size document off the ACLU website www.aclu.org sometime ago, but I could not readily find that document today.

IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING.

1. It's not a crime to refuse to answer questions, but refusing to answer can make the police suspicious about you. You can't be arrested merely for refusing to identify yourself on the street.

2. Police may "pat-down" your clothing if they suspect a concealed weapon. Don't physically resist, but make it clear that you don't consent to any further search.

3. Ask if you are under arrest. If you are, you have a right to know why.

4. Don't bad-mouth the police officer or run away even if you believe what is happening is unreasonable. That could lead to your arrest.

The document also has other advice concerning different kinds of encounters with LE such as traffic stops, arrests, at home, etc.

LiquidTension
April 28, 2003, 05:05 PM
What if you are carrying legally and a police officer asks you for ID just because he's bored or something? Can you still choose not to identify yourself? In SC, part of the CWP law says: "A permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder."

Does this mean that you lose the right to not identify yourself simply because you have a CWP? :confused:

If you enjoyed reading about "Police Stepping Up Patrols (Mpls/St Paul)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!