[Fat_46]

http://wcbstv.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_131170223.html

(AP) BELLEVUE, Iowa An auction to benefit a family whose home burned down went off with a bang. Fortunately, no one was seriously hurt.

Darrell Clasen, of La Motte, and John Moellers, of Bellevue, were both shot when a 10-gauge shotgun accidentally discharged at the auction on Sunday.

Police said a 10-year-old boy put a shell in the gun, which was on a table of things to be auctioned. A man later picked up the gun and it discharged, police said.

Moellers was hit in the shoulder. Clasen was struck in the arm. Both men were taken to a the hospital where they were treated and released.

Clasen said he heard the gun go off.

"It was loud," he said. "I could see the smoke from the gun and then I felt it. It didn't hurt, but it was like a burning sensation."

Clasen said both he and Moellers were going to be OK. He said no one is holding a grudge.

"Everybody learned a lesson," he said.

There were about 200 people at the benefit and the boy apparently was able to put the shell in the gun unnoticed because of the noise of the crowd, police said.

The benefit was being held for a family whose home burned down last month.

[waterhouse]

treat all firearms as if they were loaded
don't ever point a gun at something you don't intend to destroy


Could have easily been avoided.

[bigdaddyb]

I have a proposal for rule 5.

If the gun is for sale, put the ammo SOMEWHERE ELSE. ANYWHERE ELSE will do just fine. Just keep the gun and the ammo SEPERATE.

:cuss: :banghead: :cuss:

[Sistema1927]

It didn't "accidentally" discharge.

Some idiot pulled the trigger when it was pointing in an unsafe direction.

[Mainsail]

A man later picked up the gun and it discharged, police said.

That's one sensitive trigger...

[orionengnr]

bingo!

[phoglund]

Should make society reevaluate it's attitude toward corporal punishment if you ask me. That 10 year old boy needs his hide tanned if he was taught about guns or his old man does if he wasn't.

Lucky fellows to have been shot by a 10 guage and lived to tell the tale.

[middy]

That 10 year old boy needs his hide tanned if he was taught about guns or his old man does if he wasn't.
Absolutely.

[Zundfolge]

treat all firearms as if they were loaded

One very important way to treat a firearm as if it is loaded is to check the freakin' chamber when you first pick it up!

[AJAX22]

even if the champer is unable to be opened cause its rusted shut, treat it like its loaded.

I had an interesting accidental discharge myself once. but I treated it like it was loaded and had it in a safe direction at ALL times.

kid needs a spankin

[f4t9r]

should have been avoided. always check if gun is loaded

[Zen21Tao]

Remember always check the chamber.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/alwithgun.jpg

[cavman]

When two men get hit with a 10 ga. shotgun,

is that the same as one man getting hit with a 20 ga?

[Jac]

Quote:
A man later picked up the gun and it discharged, police said.

That's one sensitive trigger...It didn't like being picked up by a strange man...

[DoubleTapDrew]

A man later picked up the gun and it discharged, police said.


I'm getting sick and tired of the media portraying guns as having a temper or personality and will randomly fire on it's own. Why can't they just say "A man later picked up the gun and pulled the trigger, causing it to fire".
I hope that 10 year old gets more than a spanking, although I doubt he will. I have feeling if an adult put the 10 gauge shell in that gun he'd be looking at some sort of attempted manslaughter charge.

[El Tejon]

One does not "treat" a gun as if it was loaded as it is loaded--always. Rule #1 states: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

Yet again the Four Rules are ignored, yet again someone is hurt.

Thus endth the sermon.

[Double Maduro]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned.

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.

Then again, maybe it wasn't an accident.

DM

[waterhouse]

One does not "treat" a gun as if it was loaded as it is loaded--always. Rule #1 states: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

I don't mean to be a stickler, but the way you wrote the rule can be shown to be, beyond a doubt, false. All guns are not always loaded. I'm in fact staring at the open actions of no less than 4 guns (UPS truck got here a little while ago) that are all 100% not loaded.

If I were a logical type person, and you told me that a set of rules were important, and I immediately proved the very first rule to be false, I might not pay much attention to the rest of the so called rules.

I believe that Cooper stated it as "All guns are always loaded (until you establish that they are not.)" To me this says that all guns should be treated as though they are loaded. Take that as you will.

[Quaamik]

Kid deservs a spankin or more.

Also reminds me ......
Wasn't it in another thread here that someone didn't believe that anyone ever put a shell / cartridge in a gun on purpose at a gun show? How much different is it if it's an auction that has guns?

[Manedwolf]

I believe that Cooper stated it as "All guns are always loaded (until you establish that they are not.)" To me this says that all guns should be treated as though they are loaded. Take that as you will.

Unless someone else loads it while you're out of the room, or you SWORE it was unloaded a second ago. Hence the assumption that they're always loaded.

This is a fine example of that. Auction person probably checked that it was unloaded. Kid came up and put a shell in it. To the auction person, it's still unloaded, because they didn't load it. But it WAS.

[waterhouse]

Unless someone else loads it while you're out of the room, or you SWORE it was unloaded a second ago. Hence the assumption that they're always loaded.

This is a fine example of that. Auction person probably checked that it was unloaded. Kid came up and put a shell in it. To the auction person, it's still unloaded, because they didn't load it. But it WAS.

I understand. And I still say that the person who pulled the trigger did not treat the gun as if it were loaded. If they had treated it as a loaded gun they would not have pointed it at another person and pulled the trigger.

El Tejon pointed out that the rule doesn't say "treat guns as though they are loaded," it says "all guns are always loaded."

I am saying that simply stating "a gun is always loaded" is a recipe for having people not listen to you, because you are saying something that can be shown to be false. Telling someone to "treat all firearms as though they are loaded" arrives at the same end point (they act in every single way like the gun is loaded) except that it cannot be shown to be false.

It is just a matter of semantics, but since my wording was questioned I felt the need to explain.

[Double Maduro]

Waterhouse said,

no less than 4 guns (UPS truck got here a little while ago)


Quit bragging!

DM

[MountainPeak]

Going once, going twice, going... BANG! This baby functions fine! Do I hear a bid of...... :)

[waterhouse]

Don't worry DM, I don't actually get to keep any of these. :D

[carpettbaggerr]

I am saying that simply stating "a gun is always loaded" is a recipe for having people not listen to you, because you are saying something that can be shown to be false. Telling someone to "treat all firearms as though they are loaded" arrives at the same end point (they act in every single way like the gun is loaded) except that it cannot be shown to be false.

It is just a matter of semantics, but since my wording was questioned I felt the need to explain.Yep, it's a matter of semantics, but the fact is that all guns are always loaded. You can't prove it to be false, because it is true.

If you don't believe it, you may well have an accidental/negligent discharge, because you treated it as if it were loaded, instead of knowing it is loaded.

Even immediately after verifying a gun is empty (by both sight and touch) I expect to hear a bang. Because I know it's loaded, even though I checked several times to make sure that the gun is cleared.

[DoubleTapDrew]

Is anyone else wondering why a 10 year old kid just happened to have a 10 gauge shogtun shell on him and felt the need to put it in a 10 gauge shotgun on the auction block?
I think there may be more to this story than we know.
As for the rule argument, I always say "treat all guns as if they were loaded" meaning that even if you just checked the chamber and stuck your finger in there, still keep it pointed in a safe direction. To help me, I constantly think to myself "if the trigger was pulled right now and there was one in the pipe where would the bullet go?"

[Zen21Tao]

Is anyone else wondering why a 10 year old kid just happened to have a 10 gauge shogtun shell on him and felt the need to put it in a 10 gauge shotgun on the auction block?

I’ve heard rumors of antis that have put live rounds in guns at gun shows trying to generate negligent discharges.

[MNgoldenbear]

My basic routine has always been to recheck to see a gun is clear any time the gun has left my immediate control. If I cleared a gun and the put it on the bench, in my bag, in my safe, etc., I still check it again since it has left my hand since I last verified its condition. Only (slight) exception to this is dry fire practice. Then, there is no ammo out, the gun is checked (visual/tactile), and the gun only goes to my holster for a short time. Generally no one else present as well.

[DoubleTapDrew]

I’ve heard rumors of antis that have put live rounds in guns at gun shows trying to generate negligent discharges.

If that's the case here they should throw the kid's parents in prison for a long time and send the kid to one of our evil education camps like the eddie eagle program :rolleyes: I'd like to think this was an accident but I just can't imagine how it would be.
I made it a habbit to check the chamber every time I pick up a firearm (or am handed one, even if it was just checked). I feel it's a good habbit and shows whoever you are with that you know how to responsibly handle guns. I've yet to see someone offended that I double check the chamber after they've cleared it.

[waterhouse]

Yep, it's a matter of semantics, but the fact is that all guns are always loaded. You can't prove it to be false, because it is true.

I beg to differ. All guns are not always loaded. If they were it would be impossible to field strip a Glock. If they were, dry firing would be impossible. If they were, there would be no need to purchase extra magazines (or for that matter, extra ammunition) because the gun would always magically go bang, because it was alway loaded.

It is not a true statement, it is not a fact, and I can prove it to be false. All guns are not always loaded, but all guns should be treated like they are loaded.

If you don't believe it, you may well have an accidental/negligent discharge, because you treated it as if it were loaded, instead of knowing it is loaded.

Please explain.

Nothing is lost if you truly "treat" a firearm as though it is loaded. If a gun IS loaded, you don't pull the trigger until ready to fire, and while knowing your target and what is beyond it. If you treat a gun as though it is loaded, you don't pull the trigger until you are ready to fire, and while knowing your target and what is beyond it.

[AndyC]

Oh, for pete's sake :banghead:

[velojym]

Naw, Pete saw the thread and snuck out the back door.

I have to keep my guns locked up, or they'll sneak out and roam about, shooting folks at random. Just ask Sarah Brady.
:what:

A preacher I used to know had us kids convinced that the devil loads all empty firearms, which is why so many 'empty' guns kill people.
Of course I'm much better now.