[Clark]

I have some +P+ 9mm ammo that seems wimpy to me.

[Wildalaska]

If you are talking about the 115 gr penetrator (truncated cone) it is awesome ammo..

Thats what I carry in the 9mm for bears...very potent stuff

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. THe only kind I have is pictured below. It does not have any +P markings on the box or the case.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid57/p9b97641c01a71f811200f7d7f86ccb73/fc6a0e6f.jpg

The bullet weighs 100 grains and there's an "FL" on the box. The stuff averaged 1299 ft/sec from a Hi Power, 1311 ft/sec from a Springfield XD, and 1378 ft/sec from a 6" longslide STI Trojan.

Best.

[Johnny Guest]

Wild - --
What kind of bullet in your TC bear sticker ammo?

Best,
Johnny

[Wildalaska]

Hi its the same stuff that Steve Camp is picturing...

I got the wieght wrong...

[Clark]

I have that same "Law enforcement grade" but it does not mushroom like that for me, but I shoot wood.

[Phil in Seattle]

I know that the L7A1 can be bad news.... For example I sure wouldn't shoot it in a Beretta 92.

Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320.

[Clark]

I would like to trade some of my wimpy +P+ for some of that L7A1 ammo.

I would pull it down and add more powder until someting happened to see what the real safety margin is.

[Phil in Seattle]

How much L7A1 would you need Clark? I see it for sale from time to time (50rd boxes), but no you can't have my last box and a half. :D

[Rockdoc]

Conditions: Partial overcast, 70 deg F., light winds, elevation 7000 ft. (NE of Flagstaff, AZ)

Equipment:
Oehler chronograph with proof channel.
Sterling SMG, 6.5” barrel
Browning Hi-Power, 4.7” barrel

Velocity data (fps) are reported in this order:
High velocity, low velocity, velocity spread, average velocity and standard deviation.
10 rounds fired per group.

Fired in the Sterling SMG (semi auto):

L7A1 Hirtenberg, 124 gr. FMJ

1474 1421 53 1450 17

Federal American Eagle, 123 gr FMJ

1197 1159 38 1178 15

S&B 115 gr. FMJ

1306 1274 32 1289 9

Canadian WWII, MM45, 115 gr. FMJ

1402 1321 81 1367 27

Winchester WWII, WRA 42, 115 gr. FMJ

1332 1277 96 1345 27

Federal 147 gr. JHP

1072 1028 44 1054 14

For comparison, these were done with a T-series Hi Power:

Federal American Eagle, 123 gr FMJ

1070 1108 38 1088 16

Canadian WWII, MM45, 115 gr. FMJ

1247 1279 32 1268 11

The L7A1 does increase cyclic rate. Considering that the L7A1 is a 124 gr. bullet moving at 1450 fps, only desperation would drive me to fire this stuff in any pistol (except maybe a Lahti).