Triangle Sights?


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MarkDido
May 13, 2006, 11:13 AM
On a recent edition of Guns and Ammo TV, they discussed a new sighting system that was in the shape of a triangle. Anybody catch the manufacturer?

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hksw
May 13, 2006, 11:25 AM
Tru Glo

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=964834

Says they are discontinued.

Chipperman
May 13, 2006, 11:58 AM
Steyr has had a triangular/trapezoid sighting system on their M-Series pistols for a while.

http://remtek.com/arms/steyr/msseries/m/index.htm

LOST SOUL
May 13, 2006, 12:29 PM
Great sights, I have a Styer and love the sights.:D

MarkDido
May 13, 2006, 04:28 PM
Tru Glo

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=964834

Says they are discontinued.


Thanks guys. Man that must have been a really old episode of G&A TV!

Mark

MNgoldenbear
May 13, 2006, 04:30 PM
Doesn't/Didn't Trijicon have a triangle reticle on some of their sights?

Just checked. They have a triangle on their RX-06 reflex and a chevron (inverted vee) on their RX-09 reflex.

Lebben-B
May 13, 2006, 05:52 PM
Man that must have been a really old episode of G&A TV!

Circa 2004.

loumarch
May 13, 2006, 08:07 PM
These are Sure-Sight quick acquisition sights. They are currently on hold by the original manufacturer. I believe there were some quality issues and the original owner is trying to work them out. Supposedly they will resume production soon.

RustyShackelford
May 14, 2006, 01:00 AM
I saw a cool new website called www.tacticaladvantage.com or www.advantagetactical.com (I'll check the spelling). The company will develop new "night sight" type soon. They sell 3 triangle type sights(front/back) for most popular models; SIGarms/Glock/1911a1/Beretta/S&W/etc.

Rusty

;)

LeonCarr
May 14, 2006, 01:28 AM
Wilson offers some sights called the "Combat Pyramid" that are available for 1911s or Glocks. Look pretty good, but have the Wilson price :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Leibster
June 13, 2006, 02:23 PM
Hello Everyone,

My name is Chaim Stein, and I am the inventor of the sights that were seen on Guns and Ammo Television. I was forced to terminate my contract with TRUGLO, due to quality control issues. I will be re-introducing these sights to the market, in much-improved form, in the near future.

The video clip to which MarkDido referred can be seen here: http://www.suresight.com/press.htm.

If anyone is interested in more information, they can go to my website at www.suresight.com.

These sights work differently from standard notch and post sights. They were deliberately designed to be aimable while the focus of one's eye is on the target, not the sights. While they can be easily and accurately aimed with a traditional sight focus, they can also be intuitively aligned when one is staring intently at a threat. They capitalize on a known psychological condition called the Gestalt Principle of Perceptual Organization. This principle states that humans are hard-wired to complete shapes. Therefore, it is intuitive to align the top and bottom halves of the triangle, thereby creating a known shape--a triangle.

If you'd like to read a review of the sights, there's a big one over at Glocktalk, located here: http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=350419

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.

If anyone would like produciton updates, please send an email to info@suresight.com stating what model gun you have. Initially, we will offer the sight for Glocks, Sigs and XDs, and then branch out from there.

All the best,

Chaim Stein
President, SureSight, LLC
(aka Leibster)

mp510
June 13, 2006, 04:17 PM
Champions Choice stocks, or at least used to stock a triangle front apperature for precision target shooting. It would have worked in the following manner (Black= rear, red=front, black= target).

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=41103&d=1150229812

Leibster
June 13, 2006, 08:42 PM
mp510,

Just curious--are those HANDGUN sights that you drew? I've never seen anything like that. I checked on Champion's Choice website, but I couldn't find them there. Any idea who makes them?

Thanks,

--Leibster

rangerruck
June 13, 2006, 08:57 PM
steyr's sites are about as good and as fast as they come.

Leibster
June 14, 2006, 01:13 AM
rangerruck,

Steyr's sights are good, but they are very different than SureSight. Essentially, Steyr sights are traditional notch and post sights, with the rear notch slanted inward at 45 degree angles. The top of the rear sight is aligned with the top of the front.

With the SureSight design, the front sight is visually "stacked" on the rear, and this creates the illusion of a triangle. The tip of the triangle is the point of impact. This has a number of advantages.

First, 100% of the front sight is visible at all times. Next, the front sight is several times larger than the rear (this is opposite from standard sights.) The advantage of this compared to standard front sights is that the SureSight front sight is:


Easily picked up, even when not looking for it, making it very fast.

Easily found after recoil.

Easier to engage moving targets.


Also, while the front sight is much bigger than any other sight on the market, the overall sight picture actually obscures LESS of the target than traditional sights, translating into a simultaneous increase in sight picture AND target.

The SureSight also capitalizes on a skill already hard-wired into humans--the inborn ability and tendency to complete shapes. This cuts training time, and raises the likelihood of using the sights under stress, since the skill is already hard-wired into our nervous systems. Finally, unlike the Steyr sight, the SureSight was specifically designed to be aimable when the eye is focused on a distant threat, rather than the front sight.

I hope that helps clarify the difference between the two sights.

Cheers,

--Leibster

rangerruck
June 14, 2006, 03:04 AM
wow! i must say , that is also very nice sites, quite easy to pick up. But does it not "stack" the front site onto the rear triangle shape ,much the same way you do with the steyr?

Leibster
June 14, 2006, 03:27 AM
rangerruck,

With the Steyr sights, there is no vertical "stacking". The top of the rear sight is aligned with the top of the front, just like standard sights.

This is not the case with SureSight. SureSight actually does "stack" the ENTIRE front sight on top of the entire rear sight. Therefore, unlike traditional notch & post sights, there is never any part of the front sight that is obscured from view by the rear sight, as is the case with all notch and post sights, including the Steyr.

Hope that helps,

--Leibster

RyanM
June 14, 2006, 03:31 AM
I don't know if the "completing shapes" thing is that much of an advantage. With standard sights, you're completing a rectangle.

Leibster
June 14, 2006, 03:47 AM
RyanM,

Actually, with standard sights, you're not completing a rectangle; you're essentially aligning three separate rectangles. When they are properly aligned your brain (at least for most people) doesn't recognize the shape as a rectangle. Rather, it sees one vertically oriented rectangle equidistantly spaced between two other vertically oriented rectangles.

In contrast to that, when the SureSight is aligned, the brain perceives it as completing a single shape, not a series of dots, bars or rectangles.

For these reasons, and others, aiming with SureSight just feels different; it is a substantially different experience than aiming with notch and post sights.

Further evidence of this intuitive aiming concept is that when a brand new shooter who has never fired a handgun before is introduced to two weapons, one with SureSight and one with notch and post, they usually figure out how to sight with the SureSight intuitively, before it is even explained. While testing this theory (on an admittedly small sample), this happened almost every time.

On the other hand, for almost all new shooters, aiming needs to be explained for notch and post sights.

--Leibster

mp510
June 14, 2006, 12:20 PM
[qoute]mp510,

Just curious--are those HANDGUN sights that you drew? I've never seen anything like that. I checked on Champion's Choice website, but I couldn't find them there. Any idea who makes them?

Thanks,

--Leibster
[/quote]

They are for rifle shooting, usually smallbore 3 or 4 position (you could always use for 1 P shooting as well) target shooting. I haven't recieved a Champions Choice Catalog in a while, but I am going to dig out the original ad. What they were offering were aperature that you fit into a front sight and you used your existing rear sight.

BTW, what I drew was the approximate sight picture (my MS Paint skills are not too hot:mad: ).

Leibster
June 14, 2006, 04:58 PM
mp510,

Thanks for your response. I get how those would make sense on a rifle, I just couldn't figure out how they'd work on a handgun....

Thanks again,

--Leibster

panzermk2
June 14, 2006, 11:42 PM
How do your sights work compared to 24/7 express big dot setup?
Since my eyes are now on the wrong side of forty I installed a set of 24/7's on one of my handguns and I love them. Do the to parts of the shape appear on the same focul piont?

VARifleman
June 15, 2006, 12:36 AM
mp510,

First, that apature is drawn too small. There is supposed to be a gap between the circular target and the sides of the apature.

Secondly, before anyone gets the idea that those trianglular rifle sights are any good...they aren't. I'll have to ask Brezovich which team it was (I think the Russians) tried those and the scores went down and stayed there till the switch back. For smallbore shooting like that, unless you're an olympian that's found out he's better with a post (one of them is, can't remember who, but he's mentioned in the way of the rifle), the best to use is the circular ones. I personally use one that's quite large comparatively, but that's what I like and found works for me.

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 12:38 AM
panzermk2,

The main similarity between SureSight and the 24/7 XS Sight is that both of them align verticaly--the front sight is visually stacked atop the rear.

The SureSight's visible surface area on the front sight is much bigger even then the Big Dot XS Sight, but the target is never obscured by it.

Currently, SureSight is not offered with tritium, and the 24/7 sights are. However, due to the large fluorescent areas on SureSight, it stays highly visible in low light (although not in total darkness, as with tritium sights.)

If you like your Big Dots, chances are you'll really like SureSight.

As for the parts of the shape appearing on the same focal length, this is technically impossible. There's no way around it; the front sight, rear sight, and target are located such that the eye cannot focus clearly on all of three at the same time. However, due to the shape and intuitiveness of SureSight, it is still aimable even when the eye is focused on the target. Some people have a hard time believing it until they've experienced it. But I was at the Range of the LA County Sheriff Dept with some of their firearms trainers, and they were getting consistent torso hits at 25 yards while focusing on the target.

I hope I've answered your questions,

--Leibster

Sunray
June 15, 2006, 01:49 AM
Inglis HP's have had a pryamid shaped front sight with a 'U' shaped rear sight for eons. They're not that great. Our C1A1's had an inverted triangular front sight as well. It wasn't that good either. It supposedly gave you a bit of range finding as it's width was supposed to matched the width of the bull at 300 yards. Not exactly precise though. Both take some getting used to. Mind you, the shape of the front sight doesn't matter. You still sit the target on top of the front sight and shoot.

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 02:13 AM
Sunray,

Not to beat a dead horse, but I fear I'm doing a poor job of explaining myself. The SureSight is EXTREMELY different from the triangular shaped front sight on the Inglis HPs.

For starters, HP sights are relatively small. By contrast, the SureSight has by far the largest front sight of any sight system on the market, while still fitting in standard holsters.

But more important than simply the size, the WAY SureSight works is utterly different from the sights you described.

Rather than explaining again, I'm attaching two pictures (assuming the attachment feature works.) One of the pictures show the SureSight in alignment. The other picture shows a standard set of notch and post sights overlayed with a SureSight sight picture, with both of them on the same target. This image explains why with the SureSight, there is a simultaneous increase in both sight picture AND target visibility.

I apologize if I'm being unclear. Hopefully, the attached images will help.

--Leibster

panzermk2
June 15, 2006, 01:32 PM
Thankyou, the only thing more would be some form of gas/fiber upgrade and that you made for the FN 5n7 USG

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 01:43 PM
panzermk2,

If there is enough interest, we will definitely make them for the FiveSeven.

Most people who have used SureSight don't feel they need a glowing sight. The trouble is, some people only become comfortable with this idea AFTER they bought SureSight, so in order to accomodate the reluctant customer, we are currently exploring different ideas for night sights.

All the best,

--Leibster

ball3006
June 15, 2006, 04:10 PM
of Steyr sights...............They are great for old eyes.........chris3

Rumble
June 15, 2006, 04:51 PM
Leibster:

I may have missed this, but what models do you intend to design these sights for once you've ironed out any problems?

More to the point--I own Sigs, 1911's, and CZs. What are my chances?

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 04:53 PM
ball3006,

If you like the Steyr sights, chances are you'll LOVE SureSights. They're even easier on older eyes.

--Leibster

Cosmoline
June 15, 2006, 04:55 PM
The old Arisakas use a triangle front with an aperture back that I REALLY love. I don't know why the idea hasn't caught on as much. The two shapes just go together naturally.

Werewolf
June 15, 2006, 05:14 PM
If there is enough interest, we will definitely make them for the FiveSeven.I want a set of those triangle sites on the CZ-75B SA I shoot in IPSC - they'd go a long way towards lowering my times.Don't forget about CZ (hell sometimes I think CZ forgets about CZ).

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 06:10 PM
Werewolf,

You're right; the CZ really is an under-appreciated weapon. I would love to make up a batch for the CZ-75 platform, tell anyone you know to who is interested to shoot me an email at info@suresight.com.

--Leibster

Werewolf
June 15, 2006, 08:18 PM
You're right; the CZ really is an under-appreciated weapon. I would love to make up a batch for the CZ-75 platform, tell anyone you know to who is interested to shoot me an email at info@suresight.com.

--LeibsterOK! All you guys that use CZ's (and I know you're here) you heard the man. Let 'im know you're interested in a set of those triangle sights for your CZ. :D

Leibster
June 15, 2006, 10:20 PM
Werewolf,

Errr, thanks, but I kinda meant all those guys who AREN'T watching this thread. :neener:

--Leibster

panzermk2
June 19, 2006, 09:57 PM
Damn since I am an even bigger CZ nut

Werewolf
June 20, 2006, 09:57 AM
The whole concept of these triangle sights is intriguing and as I said before I'd really like to try a set out on one of my CZ's.

BUT the more I think about it the more I wonder how one would go about setting them since the way they work is to form a triangle and point of impact is the point of the triangle.

For example: What if POI is low? Do you raise the rear sight? What happens to the geometry between the front and rear? Since the front sight is fixed can you still make a triangle? Would the POI go up?

I'm sooooooo confused... :confused:

I'm starting to wonder if triangle sights will really work???

Leibster
June 20, 2006, 04:08 PM
panzermk2,
Didn't mean to offend you. :) . If you haven't done so already, please send an email to info@suresight.com. The more emails I get, the more likely I'll be able to make SureSight available for CZ owners.


Werewolf,
SureSight is just like XS Sights inasmuch as they are not adjustable for elevation, only windage. Like XS Sights, you would need to shim the rear sight to raise it in order to adjust for elevation.

I hope that helps clarify things.

--Leibster

panzermk2
June 20, 2006, 11:06 PM
panzermk2,
Didn't mean to offend you. . If you haven't done so already, please send an email to info@suresight.com. The more emails I get, the more likely I'll be able to make SureSight available for CZ owners.


Not at all:what:

Leibster
June 21, 2006, 04:30 AM
Glad to hear it. :D

Leibster
June 21, 2006, 06:41 PM
Thanks to some of you on this forum, as well as some other forums, I've been able to compile a nice list of people who are interested in SureSight, along with which model guns you want sights for.

I really value and appreciate your feedback.

If anyone else would like to let me know what they're interested in, please send off an email to info@suresight.com.

Just as importantly, if any of you have suggestions, or a "want list" of features you'd like to see in an aiming system, please let me know!

Thanks again,

--Leibster

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