AK-47 bullet deformation during feeding


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The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 06:46 PM
I notice that both of my Bulgarian AK-47s deform the points on every other bullet during feeding. I know this, because I checked, i.e., I will load a mag, insert it, work the action, work it again, and again, and again. I notice a pattern of every other round being slightly deformed at the tip by the feeding process. Is that common? Would accuracy be much improved if that didn't happen? Does this happen on the real made-for-the-military AK-47s? Anything to be concerned about? Thanks.

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beerslurpy
May 13, 2006, 07:02 PM
Check your magazine. Every other round is feeding from the left or right side of the magazine. One of those sides has a burr or deformity on the front of the magazine that is gouging the bullets as they enter the chamber.

Or there is somethign sticking out in the magwell or chamber area on that side of the rifle.

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 07:31 PM
Check your magazine. Every other round is feeding from the left or right side of the magazine. One of those sides has a burr or deformity on the front of the magazine that is gouging the bullets as they enter the chamber.

Or there is somethign sticking out in the magwell or chamber area on that side of the rifle.Doesn't matter which mag I use. Same result. I will post a picture.

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 07:41 PM
Here's what every other bullet looks like. This is a hollow point Wolf round.

model 649
May 13, 2006, 08:00 PM
I haven't seen any AK's NOT beat up the tips of either hollow or soft-point ammo. I'm thinking it has to do with not having a feed ramp to help guide the round into the chamber smoother and the bouncing-around of parts as the gun is fired. I love my "old Volkswagen" of an AK but I only feed it FMJ because that's what it likes best. I wonder if these guns can be made to properly handle other-than-FMJ ammo?
Josh

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 08:33 PM
Model 649, that is good to hear. Does everyone else concur? Do all of the AKs do this to hollow point ammo, even the ones made for military service? I have lots of mil surplus FMJ steel core ammo, but I was saving that for SHTF. Use only the Wolf JHP because I bought a couple of cases of the stuff when it was still cheap, and that's not what I would use for the real deal, so I use it up. Maybe I ought to try some of the FMJ steel core just to see if it beats up the tips of those too. Maybe it won't. Problem solved.

KaceCoyote
May 13, 2006, 09:31 PM
My Saiga doesnt deform bullets, FMJ, JHP or softpoint.

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 09:43 PM
Well, aren't you special? :neener:

Just kidding. I guess they put those Saigas together right. But, so long as mine is reliable, I'm pretty happy with it, and so far it always goes bang when I pull the trigger. I get fist sized groups at 100 yards from steady off hand positions. I figure that's good enough for its intended purpose in my battery, i.e., repelling boarders.

The Real Hawkeye
May 13, 2006, 10:03 PM
Great news! Just broke open a package of mil surplus 7.62x39 FMJ steel core, loaded up a mag and did the same test. Deformation was zip, zero, nada. No deformation at all. Much happier now. Accuracy might even be better with the FMJ due to zero deformation. Will have to try some at the range.

Bought bunches of this stuff just before the import ban on steel core, but still don't want to use too much of it. Just enough for an accuracy test. Leave the rest for SHTF.

DMK
May 14, 2006, 10:52 AM
It looks like to me that you mag's feed lips and chamber aren't lined up correctly. Every other round is slamming into the edge of the chamber instead of feeding into it. Since it does it with all your mags, the magwell might be aligning the mag off to one side slightly. It could be twisting the mag from the viewpoint of looking down from the top or it could be cocking the mag at an angle from the viewpoint of looking down the barrel.

Is there any resistance when you insert your mags? I'd turn the rifle upside down and look inside your magwell carefully. Look very carefully at both sides to see if anything is different about one side compared to the other. Check the opening at the bottom. Is one side different from the other. Does one side of your mags appear more scratched up, where they might be pressing against something as you insert them?

That is unless the barrel itself is off center. Or it could be possible that the sheetmetel receiver is twisted slightly. Any roughness cycling the action unloaded without the recoil spring in?

I've never shot softpoints, but most of my 7.62x39 is Barnual HPs. They never deform. I'd think that would have a considerable affect on accuracy and reliability.

The Grand Inquisitor
May 14, 2006, 11:15 AM
DMK is correct - you obviously have some sort of mechanical problem with either your mags (did all of the mags you're using come from the same source? If so, it is possible that you got a dud batch) or the rifle itself.

I have quite a few AK's and nothing of this sort has happened to me after thousands of rounds of fire - the same goes for firends with multiple AK's - nothing like this ever.

AJAX22
May 14, 2006, 11:23 AM
I agree on the mechanical problem angle, its not supposed to do that. it almost sounds like your magwell is out of alignment with your barrel.

just a guess but you may be able to fix it by tapping in the feedlip on the affected side slightly, either fix the angle that the bullets are fed from by tweaking the magwell or mag catch, or fix it by tweaking your mags.

is there any wobble in your mags when you click them into place? does it look really straight or is it off slightly?

The Real Hawkeye
May 14, 2006, 11:45 AM
You all might be right. The mags are from different makes, and all do the same thing. This is from Bulgaria, but it is their newly designed receiver. I don't know if you are familiar with it. It is stamped but heavier gauge than the usual stamped receiver. The first rifle I bought of this model had the same problem, but is also jammed a lot by the points of the bullets colliding perpendicularly with the receiver instead of feeding right on into the chamber. I sent it back and they sent me this identical replacement, but this one is 100% reliable. Only problem is the one I started the post with. Maybe they have not yet banged out all of the bugs in this newly designed receiver. It is imported by Armory USA by the way. Know anything about them? They tell me the guns come fully assembled from Bulgaria, and they don't do anything to them in the US.

One difference I notice with these rifles is that the mags are much harder to get in than with any other AK I've ever owned or shot. Normally, you just hook it in at the front and them snap it back. With these new ones with the new receiver design, you hook it in at the front but then if you try to just snap it back, it will not engage. You have to wobble it from side to side a little till it finds the right spot, and then you can snap it back all the way. This really stinks, but this is a replacement, and I figured as long as it works I should just keep it. I have an Arsenal AK that works perfectly in every way. It has a milled receiver, and I've had Romanians in the past that worked perfectly in every way. I think it has to do with this newly designed receiver.

AJAX22
May 14, 2006, 04:50 PM
given what you're saying, it almost seems like the forward lip on the magazine doesn't have enough material to bring it high enough into the receiver. have you tried getting a mag from the manufacturer?

The Real Hawkeye
May 14, 2006, 04:54 PM
It came with a mag, and I have other mags from other manufacturors too. They all do the same thing. It's probably a receiver problem, but since it doesn't deform FMJ, and it is completely reliable, I think I will just leave it alone. It groups tight enough, even with deformed JHP ammo, i.e., fist sized groups from stable off hand positins at 100 yards, so I am not complaining. I imagine that with FMJ it will group even tighter.

By the way, many years ago I had a Poly Tech Legend AK-47 with a milled receiver, and it has a great rep these days, but I recall clearly that it deformed ammo in exactly the same way as this one does. In fact, it would not reliably feed hollow points, but ate up FMJ with no problem.

DMK
May 14, 2006, 07:42 PM
Unfortunately, a lot of folks that build commercial AKs these days have the mindset of "good enough". Although the AK was always designed to be a little loose, I don't think shoddy workmanship was part of the original idea.

I'd find out what's binding up those mags on insertion and I'll bet you'll find your problem. They shouldn't be difficult to insert like that. Look really carefully at it, comparing the magwell with your other AK.

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