[rebbryan]

i thought i read something in a gun rag about glock makin a new 45 ammo that's smaller or somethin. anyone know about this? i don't think i was dreaming, but sometimes i get mixed up :scrutiny:

[Preacherman]

Yep - the Glock .45 is a shorter, thinner round than the .45 ACP, designed to fit into the Glock 17/22/31 size frame without requiring the "stretch" found in the G21/30 frame size. However, due to faster powders, the velocity and energy are right up there with .45 ACP +P rounds - IIRC, they're claiming 1,200 fps for 185gr. and 1,100 fps for 200gr. bullets.

[Mr. Chitlin]

Click on the pics:

Glock 37 info (http://ImageEvent.com/brobert/glock37)

[surfinUSA]

Sounds like an answer to a non existing problem to me. The G36 single stack in 45 acp is what I would buy if I needed a compact 45. For one its a real 45 so ammo can be found anywhere.

Second the real 45 acp rounds are relatively low presure. This new one sounds like a pretty high presure round if it wants to reach the 45 acp's ability in a smaller case. But someone that reloads would know better than me.

If I needed that type of gun I'd go with the existing G27 in 40. They work and there is ammo everywhere. The 40 is pretty common, maybe not as common as 45 acp but alot more common than the Glock 45 will be. I like the 40 and 45 alot, but as it is, my 239 SIG in 40 does everything I need a compact self defense gun to do. There won't be any imposter 45 caliber Glocks in my future.

I may just be me, but the 45 acp is such a part of American history, that this is almost like an attack on American handgunning. Nobody likes change, but either way, I don't see this "revolutionary" new round retiring the 45 acp anytime soon.

[cratz2]

Well, I don't think anyone is expecting this new cartridge to drive the ACP into obscelence or anything like that. Just many Glock has received lots of feedback saying that there is room for a full size gun that fires a .45 cal cartridge that doesn't have as large and blocky of a grip that the G21 does. I agree that the G36 has a good sized grip and I am considering buying one of those myself but if you've ever held a G36 and then a G21 immediately after the grip difference is staggering. The G37 is a full size gun, not a compact.

[ReconTech]

As the post above mine states, it isn't mean to be a compact gun at all.

The Glock 17/22 frame is the standard size, "full size" glock frame.

I personally have always wanted a .45 caliber glock that was the size of the 17 frame, first, because for most hands the Glock 21 is too bulky, and second, because there are a lot of holsters out there for the 17/22/31 frame.

Another reason is for departments that will not switch to the .45 because not everyone is comfortable holding the Glock 21. In my dept there are females who are ok with the Glock 22, but the Glock 21 is too thick for them.

So I'm interrested in seeing what the high capacity of this weapon is.... because that is what will determine if law enforcement uses the gun. I personally don't feel comfortable below a 15+1 weapon for duty. That was one complaint on the Glock 21...

Either way, technology is great, and so is advancement, and yes, change can be good.

GOOD JOB Glock! :D ;)

[Mr. Chitlin]

Recon,

Glock states that it is a 10 + 1. That is all it will hold.

[surfinUSA]

Recon Tech,

Twenty two years ago when I started police work, in one of the most dangerous metropolitan areas of the country, we were issued a six shot revolver and two speed loaders of ammo, for a total of 18 duty rounds. Many of us carried a BUG.

When my department permitted semi autos in 9mm for uniform carry, I carried a Beretta 15 shot semi auto. When 40 and 45 were approved I sold the Beretta and now carry an 8 shot SIG 45 or 40 compact.

My point is this, in twenty two years of police work, with the last third involing the investigations of police shootings this is what I've found.

1. I've yet to hear of a police officer killed in the line of duty that hit his target and ran out of bullets.
a. The fact is that many cops are too slow to recognize the need to employ deadly force then are too slow to employ it .
b. When they do employ it they cannot consistently hit their target.

2. No matter how hard they try police firearms instructors cannot get the new breed to understand that you cannot miss fast enough and often enough to win a gunfight.

You must remain cool follow the basics and hit your target.

3. Even with multiple (2) subjects, if you have not won the gunfight within 4 rounds on your part, you are in trouble. Slow down and aim!

4. At many shooting scenes I see alot of empty casings but very few if any hits.

5. Good patrol techniques go alot further than 15 round magazines in keeping cops alive. Good patrol techniques, religiously practiced, have kept me out of many gunfights with armed subjects or have put me in a position to win that gunfight if the subject decided to go that far. Fortunately the subject recognized their losing position and gave up.

Like many departments, our qualification passage rate has increased with the advent of the semi auto. However, we had to drop the NRA qualification course that went out to 50 yards (for the last 6 rounds) to a rediculous 15 yard qualification course.

If it was up to me cops would be limited to 10 round magazines in preferably 40 caliber or larger. Maybe then they would practice more, aim better, use better patrol techniques, and most importantly win more gunfights.

I don't mean to be insulting, but if you're not comfortable on duty with less than 15+ rounds in you gun, take a course in patrol techniques and advanced firearms courses.

[Spackler]

Another tool to add to the toolbox, and another catalyst for debate.

[COHIBA]

if they are using it in a 22 frame then they can use the 45glock round in a G26 frame. they should be able to get 7-8 rounds flat mag and 8-9 w/ a finger rest.
the shorter BBl will amount to a loss in FPS but still...
a G26 w/ 8 rd's of 200 gr XTP's at even 950 FPS is appealing.
no debate about it.
i'd buy one

[Phantom Warrior]

I would like to echo the posts regarding the difference in frame size possible with .45 Glock. If you've held a Glock 21 you know that's a serious piece of shooting iron. Besides being able to make a ".45" in the slimmer 17/22/31 frame there is also some talk (as also mentioned) of making the new .45 Glock into the compact and possibly subcompact frames. This would allow a higher round count in slimmer frames. It could bridges the gap between the very thick Glock 30 and the relatively low-capacity Glock 36. I realize bullet placement matters the most, but extra rounds never hurt.
Furthermore, someone in another post remarked that back when S&W came out with a shortened 10mm everyone thought it was a bomb. It wasn't very common and it was hard to get ammunition for. Times have clearly shown, however, that .40S&W is here to stay. So I think it's premature to criticize it was a waste of time and money. If it really is a bad idea then DON'T BUY ONE! It will fade into obsolescence. But maybe there is a niche that .45 Glock can fill. Until it's clear one way or the other let's give it a fair chance.

[surfinUSA]

A 45 is a 45 is a 45. There is no changing diameter. Just shortening the round itself so that the diameter of the grip will be thinner for smaller hands. Sorry, no more .45s will stack in the magazine.

Short mags must be wider and tall mags can be thinner to fit a given number of 45 or any other caliber rounds. Shorter rounds though can make the outer diameter of the grip a little smaller front to back, but that doesn't translate into more rounds in a magazine.

Forty caliber mags don't fit any more rounds in a given height (top to bottom) or width (side to side) that do 10 mm mags. They are both 40 caliber(10mm). the grip size changes because of the shorter distance front to back that is not related to the diameter of the round.

[Southern Raider]

A 45 is a 45 is a 45. There is no changing diameter. Just shortening the round itself so that the diameter of the grip will be thinner for smaller hands.
Exactly. If Glock wanted a 45 caliber frame with a shorter front to back distance so it could be held in smaller hands, they should have just made the aftermarket grip reduction standard on its frame.

[JohnKSa]

Exactly. If Glock wanted a 45 caliber frame with a shorter front to back distance so it could be held in smaller hands, they should have just made the aftermarket grip reduction standard on its frame.
They can't. The new guns use that space for an integral lock.

[kbellis3]

The .45 Glock is not really for American sales, thought they will undoubtedly sell as many as the American market can buy or is will to buy.

The .45 Glock is for international sales to countries where people can own and purchase handguns, but are limited by law to owning handguns that are not military or law enforcement calibers. As it was explained to me by other who have lived outside of the US, basically you can buy any 1911 A1 as long as it is not chanbered on .45 ACP or 9mm Nato (assuming that the country has at some point issued those rounds to their military or national police.) The reasons behind this law is the same as keeping the palace guards well armed while the rest of the military has it's weapons locked and under guard at the local armouries.

The legal situation in these countries are the large reason in some South American countries the people who own 1911 A1 have them chambered in .38 Super, same for the 9x21, and the 9x23. You all know how rare these cartridges are here in the US (at least outside of the race gun sports).

The .45 Glock will find itself in the hand of shooter in these countries that want the .45 caliber but have previously been legally prohibited from own and possesing one. Look for some point in the future for the 1911 A1's to be chambered in .45 Glock for international sales, it will all depend on the success of the .45 Glock if it takes off like a house on fire I think you will see 1911 manufacturers try and catch the wave.

I don't know if anyone here has read the Fortune Mag article on Gaston Glock, but if memory serves me the cost to make and ship a Glock is around $75.00 a unit, I believe that includes all marketing and overhead. This allows for profit in "niche" handgun cartridges that most other companies probably would not touch.

According to the article Gaston company has the one of the highest profit to manufacturing cost ratios of any manufacturer in any manufacturing industry.

Other recent articles have qouted that the cost to a law enforcement depart for the purchase of about a 150 units is somewhere between $125 to $150. I paid $400.00 for my used G17 police trade in and thought that I got a deal (with 2 high cap mags) several years ago.

Kyle

PS I think think that I was drilled on that deal. :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

[Missouri Mule]

Alright since it doesn't look like anybody else is gonna do it I will.
Will this 45 glock round be called.45agp? :neener:

[surfinUSA]

Kbellis,

Your explanation is the only logical explanatiton I've heard for the introduction of this round. It sounds like you're right on the money. Sometimes I forget that although we are probably the largest private handgun market, we aren't the only handgun market.

[Kobun]

I have seen and handeled a G37.
I also talked to Robert Glock about the cartridge.

The G37 is basically a G17.
It will at max hold 10 rounds without a mag extention.

The cartridge will have close to the same velocity as a .45acp.
The case it self is primed with SPP, not large.
Other than that, it is basically a shortened 45acp case, and as I understood from my lengthy discussion, you can make a 45Glock case by shortening a 45acp case.

The gun and cartridge will be markedet all over, and Glock has contacted all the major ammo manufacturers in the US, and some of the big producers in Europe.

K.

[coop57]

Just what we need, a new cartridge. It will be expensive to shoot and there will be limited availability. This is why I shoot 9mm.

[hksw]

"The G37 is basically a G17."

Was it exactly the same frame? That is, will it be possible to do a simple replacement of the upper (with recoil spring) to change calibers? Or were there areas in the G37 lower that were beefed up or were not the same as a G17?

[Obiwan]

$ 12.00 for 50 rounds isn't too bad for a new cartidge with only one supplier!

[BluesBear]

You're close Missouri Mule,

It is called the .45GAP (Glock Auto Pistol)

And there have already been several threads on this cartridge/gun in the past few weeks.





(Doesn't anybody pay attention or do a search anymore before starting a new thread?) :rolleyes:

[ARperson]

The .45 Glock is not really for American sales,

Mebbe not, but it was in my local dealer's case today.

(Doesn't anybody pay attention or do a search anymore before starting a new thread?)

This place is really pissy about duplicate posts, isn't it? :mad:

[denfoote]

I held one at a gun shop today.
I was not impressed!!
It really is a G22 slide on a G17 frame!!

[10-Ring]

you can make a 45Glock case by shortening a 45acp case.

I can see it now....repeat after me...."45 kurz!" :neener:

[cordex]

Why does all the promo stuff seem to state the diameter of the bullet as .43?

[Bren]

I'd rather have a 10mm on a 17 frame and a SLIM compact 9mm!

They never listened on the 9mm so why should we care about the new 45? :mad:

BFD! :uhoh:

[Dean Speir]

 

…where first cousins are allowed to marry.

denfoote sez: Glock 37 … It really is a G22 slide on a G17 frame!! If it was, it wouldn't be such a hard sell. It's actually much closer to a Model 21 slide on a Model 17/22/31 frame.

If it had been delivered as a "G22 slide on a G17 frame," the Models 17 and 22 (and 31) being in all respects dimensionally the same, then it would have been the Model 37 pistol which Glock debuted at SHOT 2003.

Kobun describes the .45 G.A.P. round: Other than that, it is basically a shortened 45acp case, and as I understood from my lengthy discussion, you can make a 45Glock case by shortening a 45acp case. I don't think you understood it correctly, because, given the pressures inherent in the new cartridge, and the extra care Speer took to strengthen the .45 G.A.P. case, it would be extremely unwise to attempt to trim down any .45 ACP brass to chamber in a Model 37 Glock.


cordex not unreasonably wonders: Why does all the promo stuff seem to state the diameter of the bullet as .43? Simple… whoever Glock retained doesn't know how to convert metrics to inches. Look at "all your promo stuff" again, and do the conversion yourself… it'll come out to 0.451-inches.

There's more information about the pistol and the round at Glock's Model 37 (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock37-1.html) and Model 37/.45 G.A.P. Updates (http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock37.html).