2 3/4" disadvantage?

[atlctyslkr]

I recently was given a Remmington 870. I am not a shotgun expert. I've fired a few and know very little. It is stamped 2 3/4 only. I understand of course that there is an obvious reason for that. I was considering using this as a HD shotgun. Should I get something that can hold the longer magnum shells? A buddy of mine told me I should get this SxS that Ruger is now selling http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=4602&return=Y is that necessary? I thought I was doing pretty well with a .357 in the drawer but according to him that is inadequate.

[oletymer]

The disadvantage he is talking about is in his mind. Your gun will be just fine for hunting, clays or home defense. With your 357 and the 870 you have a lot of firepower.

[atlctyslkr]

Thanks alot! I thing I read somewhere that getting hit with #6 buck from a 12 ga is like getting hit nine times by a 44 magnum.

[riverdog]

The 3" rounds are only necessary for waterfowl hunting. Some folks prefer them for turkey hunting also, but I'd think a tight choke would be more important.

For HD, many "tactical" buckshot loads actually reduce the payload in order to reduce the recoil. Whatever, standard buckshot or reduced, a 2 3/4" round is more than adequate.

[sargenv]

What everyone is saying is true. The only time I feel the need for 3" shells is when I'm hunting waterfowl, but that being said, I hunted for years with a 2 3/4" gun and didn't feel undergunned. The problem with 3" shells is that they kick a LOT more since with the extra stopping power, you get more felt recoil. With the modern shells we have these days, you can still hunt/shoot just about everything with a 2 3/4" gun and never feel the need for more. I know of one gent with a 3.5" 12 gauge semi-auto that has trouble feeding it with 2 3/4" slugs. The shells are too short to feed reliably. You won't have that issue with the shorter chambered guns.

Vince

[Leif]

2.75" is just fine for HD, and riverdog is exactly correct, the magnum chamberings (3" and 3.5") primarily are waterfowl loads. Recoil is considerable with those loads.

Your buddy is pointing you in the direction of a beautiful but incredibly overpriced shotgun if your main purpose is HD. An inexpensive Remington, Winchester, or Mossberg pump gun will do the same job better for far less, so your 870 should be fine. However, that would be an excellent clays and upland game gun.

[Thin Black Line]

A 2 3/4 slug will make a home intruder just as dead from 10 feet away
as will a 3" magnum.

[ball3006]

your shoulder won't have as dark black and blue color to it. You will have to shoot the 2 3/4 shells many more times to reach the proper color........chris3

[Lee Lapin]

I'm not a shotgun expert either, but I agree with everyone who said you should be just fine shooting only 2 3/4" shells for almost anything you want to do with your shotgun. The 3" maggie numbs are for the 'bigger is always better' crowd, and frankly it just ain't so. Heck, they've even managed to stretch things out all the way to a 3 1/2" maggie numb now, trying to cram a 10 ga. payload into a 12 ga. bore. Just not worth it IMHO.

I don't know what barrel your 870 currently wears, but assuming it's a 26- 30" hunting or clays barrel, you might want to look for a handier 18- 20" police or slug barrel for it. Stick to a smoothbore, some of the slug barrels now are rifled for use with sabot slugs. They come up for sale pretty often on eBay and you might find one at your local gunstore as well. Check prices for the basic new 18" or 18.5" bead sighted barrel available from Remington so you'll know what a good deal is if you find one. Also be sure to get the barrel that's suited to your gun, newer Express guns use a different detent system to keep the magazine cap in place than older Expresses, Wingmasters or 870Ps.

Lay in some light (1 oz. shot) loads to learn on, find youurself an experienced shotgunner to get you started, and you'll be on your way. Nothing is a 100% stopper on anything, but a 12 ga. comes as close as anything the average person can handle.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

[riverdog]

I'm no expert either, but the first round of 00 Buck I fired told me all I needed to know; 2 3/4" is all the buckshot I will ever need. Your shotgun better fit real good if you want more recoil than a full 2 3/4" load delivers.

[ready4shtf]

Also, you can usually squeeze an extra round in the tube if you use 2 3/4 shells. That one extra shot might make the difference.

[sargenv]

your shoulder won't have as dark black and blue color to it. You will have to shoot the 2 3/4 shells many more times to reach the proper color........chris3

Um.. you apparently have never fired any of my magnum loaded shells. It's amazing what you can fit inside a properly handloaded 2.75" hull. I still have some of the old All Plastic Activ hulls that could fit 1 7/8 ounces of lead shot in a 2.75" shell. Ok, so the speed isn't as impressive as a 3" hull, with that kind of weight, but then it's not going to make more than about 1200 fps even in the 3" hull. 1 7/8 ounces is the load equivalent to 15 pellets of 00 buckshot that is normally loaded into a 3" hull.

Can we say "Ouch, my shoulder!" :D

Vince

[CNYCacher]

A 2-3/4 shell in #00 buckshot contains 9 pellets around .32 or .33

I am not sure on size or count of #6 buckshot, but they are significantly more and significantly smaller. Wait a minute, does buckshot go up to #6? I thought it stopped at #4. . .

Would each of those 9 #00 pellets feel like a 44 magnum round? I doubt it, but I wouldn't want to get hit with one of them, let alone 9 at once. I would not doubt if someone told me they hit like a .32 round from a handgun or harder. Buckshot loads are absolutely DEVASTATING, go buy two boxes, keep one box for HD, and use the other box shooting up a stump. Start with a decent stump.

[riverdog]

Don't confuse buckshot and birdshot. Buckshot & Birdshot (http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=5&s1=1) Select Buckshot or Shotshell at the Firearm pulldown. Click on Shot Sizes to see a graphic.

[Dave McCracken]

Congrats, you have been gifted with one of the best shotguns ever made and have come to a place where it's appreciated fully.

I shot maybeso 6K of shells last year, About 10 were 3" mags. Waterfowl loads.

I've shotgunned 30-40 deer. IIRC, I've never used a 3" mag slug and hardly ever needed a followup. Ray Charles could have followed most of the blood trails the 50 yards or so from impact of slug to deer to impact of deer to ground.

If it has a long barrel, get a short one for defense. If a short one, get a longer barrel for birds and clays.

Warning, 870s are as addicting as crack, just healthier and cheaper.

And while they do not breed, they do multiply....

[Terrierman]

Well, I'm operating at the same 2 3/4 inch "disadvantage" as the Wingmaster in the closet is also of the 2 3/4" persuasion. If I thought it really was a disadvantage, I'd do something different. It's chock full of # 1 buck with six more on a butt cuff. Heaven help us all if that won't do the job at HD range.

[sm]

NO.

I am not the only one that feels the way I do.

I am 51 years old and have shot a LOT of shotgun shells starting at a very very young age.

Except for .410, I never owned a shotgun capable of firing anything but 2 3/4" shells - until a few years ago. I no longer have that 870 Express.

One shotgun alone I have fired over 200K [two hundred thousand] rds thru, it has taken as many as 25k clays in a year, untold ducks, geese, quail, doves, rabbits, squirrels, rabid dogs, and deer. It has been used in HD training, various other shotgun "games" and who knows what else.

Do not ask me how many years I have used that gun for comfort as being a Serious Companion if need. Yep, been real comforting with its 28" barrel, and 2 3/4" chamber , and external knurled chokes I had done as it back when it was made in '74 didn't have screw in chokes.

My guns are pretty much bone stock, no mag extensions, no sidesaddles...
I am picky about gun fit, Pachmyer Decel Recoil pads, prefer a mid bead, external knurled chokes and I like a smooth crisp trigger.

Pattern board reveal to ME what that barrel and / choke shoots best for what - reveals to me if a forcing cone needs some attention. Be the load target, bird, duck, slugs, or more serious nature.

Asides

- 28 gauge is not even availible in 3" chambers. It is the most effective bore to payload [3/4 oz] and this is reflected by tote boards as having the highest scores in skeet...been this way a LOT of years. Not to mention all the birds and small game this 2 3/4" 3/4 oz payload from a 28 ga has felled.

- 10 ga is another balanced payload to bore - instead of stuffing a 10 ga load in a 12 bore, same load works better in what is was designed for - 10 ga. Special tool for certain hunting, not a general purpose tool, best for Geese at extended ranges.

-#6 shot in 12 bore is another "unique" pair up, across the board, "most of the time" of any payload - #6 hard shot will give the best pattern and pattern density of any other load shot thru "that" 12 bore.

[I]Matter of bore - not choke - Brister

Art and Science - Brister just put in a book, what we were coming to conclusions on...and folks before my time as well about Shotgunning.

Most questions asked , including on Internet forums, can be answered in reading Brister's book.



I/we grew up when folks learned to shoot, there were NOT that many choices to choose from in guns or loads. Some folks like me - grew up poor, which is NOT a bad thing..
...Cannot buy skill and targets when you are broke...

You get to pick 3 shotshells out of the coffee can , two needed to be saved for emergencies on the property - One shell - you miss - you and the sibs did not get meat to eat, you hit - meat is a nice additon to beans, onions, 'maters, cornbread, biscuits...

Good shooters are made - not born - Misseldine

Personally,

Been feeling for some time now - we need to go back to how it was...

Folks need to learn to shoot with a bone stock, 2 3/4" , fixed choked gun . Learn how to make a IC act like a Modified, and how to get a Full to toss IC patterns...figure out which slug groups best...and how know when a gun fits them...and if needing tweaking - what and how to tweak.

What do I know ? Folks ask me to instruct them on how to shoot shotguns - I hand them a BB Gun most often right off the bat....well after I make 'em make a circle with fingers to figure out which eye is dominant...

No tool is EVER any better than user of said tool.

Can't buy it - gotta earn it. -sm

Folks that approach me to assist in shooting know , or have heard I broke away from Sanctioned shoots, before the Equipment Races got hot and heavy, and went Outlaw, Rebel, Mustang, Bootleg...whatever term you want to call it.

I had a conversation today from someone well known, has written a book...he shot with us Rebels...he also played the game. Been sometime, good to catch up. This guy was good enough to get a sponsorship - he earned it. He did not believe in the equipment race...he did it because he made money. Money was foreign to him growing up, and like Atlas Shrugged points out - might as well get paid.

He did not need a special gun - be it handgun, rifle or shotgun...Just give him a gun , some shells, and let him shoot the durn thing. Oh he shot the guns for the games...he also pissed off a lot of folks shooting the same game with a bone stock gun...Really pissed off folks one day shooting one of his SX1s, made it worse by then going to a '97 Win...in a heated 3 gun match...

-

We went 5/5 using our 1974 SX1s with 2 3/4" chambers, on geese, and 8/8 on ducks one morning...

We were the only 2 to limit out, only 2 using 2 3/4 " chambers. Did I mention there was $10 on each bird taken in a pot? I let him have the pot, I also let him buy me a steak :p

3" chambers, 3.5 " chambers in 12 bore and 10 gauges out that morning...All misses looks the same...

Not our fault some folks can't shoot...;)

Steve

[gp911]

What sm said x1000...

Anyone that says a 2-3/4" 12 guage is inadequate for home defense is clueless. That .357 is a proven defensive tool as well.

A 2-3/4" 12 guage will take care of intruders, deer, birds, pigs, and more. Plenty of power, noise, and recoil. Enjoy that gun and make sure it fits you. If it seems to kick like crazy and you can't hit squat with it have an experienced shotgunner (not the clueless guy) examine your stance, stock fit, etc.

You are carrying the same basic weapon that police officers use, skeet shooters use, deer hunters use, etc. etc. etc.


Your friend's "advice" is misinformed. I'll assume he's about 19 and may have read a couple gun magazines...


gp911

[ReadyontheRight]

I am by no means an expert, especially compared to many of the folks here.

I do think there IS a place for the 3" and 3.5" loads that has not been mentioned in detail. When waterfowl shooting, most (all?) states require that you not use lead shot when shooting over water so the water does not get contaminated. (I guess it's good to protect the waterways...but doesn't the lead come out of the ground in the first place?):rolleyes: .

So...the 3" and 3.5" shells make up for the need to switch to lighter steel shot.

Of course, now there is bismuth and all sorts of composites that simulate lead while not actually BEING lead (kind of funny that "natural" lead is BAD while new-to-the-world, man-made materials are GOOD -- can you say "unintended consequesnces?"...but let's not go there).

Just my long way of saying that you can probably use your 2.75" Wingmaster as effectively on waterfowl with some of the new non-lead loads as other folks shooting steel in a 3.5" platform.

Mankind has yet to develop a more effective home defense combo than the 2.75" 12ga and the .357 wheelgun. Get out there and burn up some ammo at the range!

[sm]

ReadyontheRight,

Yes there is a place for 3" and 3.5" chambers in 12 bores. There is a place for 3" chambers in 20 ga guns, and a place for 10 ga guns.

HSMITH - is a good example and I don't even have to apologize for mentioning him.

HSMITH can shoot - period. Super X2 he uses for serious waterfowling, I mean hard use, and wary waterfowl for where he hunts.

--

Here is the deal, HSMITH can shoot, he EARNED his skill!

MY hard-headed, determined, onery, stubborn self...

LEARN The Correct Basic Fundamentals . I mean go ask someone that can shoot and instruct to take you out. Let you try a variey of guns for fit, get lessons practice ....

DO NOT BUY a FRIGGIN' GUN Until you have done this.

Once you figure out what the heck Fits you, with some friggin' Instructions from a Real Shooter That can instruct - understandng and having actually shot a variety - of what you can safely work all the features, of , be it handgun, rifle, shotgun, - type of action, caliber, gauge...

THEN get one.
Used is fine, get it fitted to you - now that you know since you had help measuring and learning this stuff...

Then continue to build upon Correct Basic Fundamentals

Truth : One NEVER stops practicing the Correct Basic Fundametals, One Never Stops Building upon these.

I do not care if it is shotguns, handguns, rifles, sex, driving a car, wiping your rear end, ...pissing in a toliet....

So you learned Correct Basic Fundamentals with a bone stock 20 ga or 12 ga with a 2 3/4 " chamber, in Pump or Semi-Auto Action

-You know 4 Rules of Safety, Range Rules and Etiquette, Administrative , You know how LISTEN, Follow Instructions, Ask Questions...

NOW- we go to next levels

1- HSMITH Teach me hunt / shoot waterfowl in you locations or similar one

HSMITH can take that person, and have NO problem getting them to shoot a SX2 with longer chambers, and felling waterfowl. I guarantee it!

2- I want to take a Defensive Shotgunning Course

NOT once in all the years have Men or Women, Elderly or Young Folks EVER been talked down to by any instructor they went to get Training- that I have instructed in Correct Basic Fundametals, that showed up with a bone stock 20 or 12 ga 2 3/4" 1100, 870, Ithaca 37 ...NEVER.

These folks, showed up with a willing attitude and were honest.

I borrowed this gun / this it the gun I learned Safety, Administrative, Correct Basics on and I shoot it well, it fits me, I am here to learn so please teach me.


Instructor has a student, they can instruct, and not "unlearn". Step by step they learn any nuances about any gun make, action type, pros, cons, and any equipment about any add-ons and what THAT student for THEIR personal needs would be be to have.

Heck, some instructors have loaned these folks personal guns, get wives guns, former student guns to assist THAT Student...they are so plumb tickled to NOT unlearn a student.

Steve Instructor ____said to stay with the 20 ga 2 3/4 870 I am used to being as I am petite/elderly, get a barrel "such and such" , no mag extension , and no side saddle. Said best to have second gun for backup....

And by golly we found a second gun, got the measurements tweaked as Instructor suggested, got a barrel 18.5 to 20" , sometimes meaning aftermarket chokes done up to do what instructor suggested pattern board reveal.

These folks now have built upon correct basic fundamentals in defensive shotguns...

They now can learn a O/U for Sporting Clays, Turkey Hunt, Deer with Slugs, Dove hunt, Go Pheasant hunting, ...all they have to learn now is...what works best for that task. EASY to transition.

Hardest thing anyone tries to do with a shotgun? Going to really surprise some folks, even with a 3" chambered gun - hardest thing for folks to do/ transition to / be good at?

Not a 12 ga 3" or 3.5" gun, Not a 10 ga either. It the shotgun that gets snubbed by some - and high respect from folks like me.

.410 shotgun and running 25 straight in skeet. Running 100 or 500

I know great shotgunners in all types of shotgun shooting, using 12 ga in 3" and 3.5" guns. can do all sorts of shooting and hunting...

.410 humbles, even with a 3" chamber.

That gun YOU HAVE to learn Correct Basic Fundamentals - You Have to practice...

One of the most mentally draining times in my life - going for my first 25 straight, then 100, then 200, then 300...[got a competitive streak in me somewhere] I finally went 500 straight.

Going 2500 straight in 12, 20 and 28 ga - not that big of a deal compared...

You get real frigging sick of the number 497 - I kept getting stuck on that number...

It has been 'figured' my SX1 has nearer to 300K rds, 285k or somesuch...
I will take it out its semi- retired state, and use it for something special. Then retire it.

First gun I want to buy is a single shot .410, didn't keep one for myself.

I'm going to get even more selective to the folks I assist with, I need a gun, I'll borrow one. I believe in somethings to a fault, always been a Rebel - too old to change my ways.

I have walked away from many people , places and things in my life - and I recently walked away from 2 folks that did not want to learn shotgunning. Instead they wanted bragging rights, and whatever seems to be the norm again for today's times. I walked off...

I got better things to do...I instead taught a kid how to use a MEC shell stacker with a box of .410 shells. I'm going to pass forward until the day I die, but by golly I do have a right to be selective on students - I earned that right. I earned the right to be Mentored by the folks that mentored me, and they too walked away from folks.

I have folks on THR I do things with via PM , email and landline. I have others too using the Internet too-
Some started with the BBGun, all started with bone stock 2 3/4" gun, and some are really darn good with transitons from - and by using Correct Basic Fundamentals.

One lady - more local I taught in 30 days, she spit in the devils eye, and her go to gun is a 870 Wingmaster in 20 ga, 2 3/4 chambers. BTW - she has now run 300 straight. :cool: