MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES THE FILING OF FEDERAL LAWSUIT AGAINST ROGUE GUN DEALERS

Hi all,

I apologize in advance for the long link. Mayor Bloomberg announced earlier today that NYC has filed a Federal Lawsuit against 15 gun shops for contributing to the illegal flow of firearms into the city. By a quick inspection of the list, several of the 15 stores identified appear to be pawn shops.

Here's the link:

http://www.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=c0935b9a57bb4ef3daf2f1c701c789a0&epi_menuID=13ecbf46556241d3daf2f1c701c789a0&epi_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0&pageID=mayor_press_release&catID=1194&doc_name=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyc.gov%2Fhtml%2Fom%2Fhtml%2F2006a%2Fpr156-06.html&cc=unused1978&rc=1194&ndi=1

Now here's the press release:



Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, joined by Corporation Counsel Michael A. Cardozo, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly and Criminal Justice Coordinator John Feinblatt, today announced that New York City has filed a lawsuit in the Federal District Court for the Eastern District of New York against 15 gun dealers identified as selling firearms in violation of federal law. The lawsuit seeks injunctive relief intended to halt the dealers’ illegal practices, and to recover money damages. The 15 gun dealers named in the lawsuit are located in five states – Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia – and were targeted because of the large number of guns that have been traced back to them following crimes committed in New York City. Based only on the incomplete data available to the City, more than 500 crime guns recovered by the New York City Police Department have been traced to these 15 gun dealers between 1994 and 2001. In his January State of the City speech, Mayor Bloomberg pledged to target dealers who sell guns illegally and hold them accountable for their actions.

“Today, we are sending a clear message to rogue gun dealers across the nation: straighten up and follow the law – or face the consequences,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “We can’t afford to allow out-of-state dealers to sell illegally – too many people die every year because they do. This lawsuit is major step forward in our efforts to keep illegal guns out of our City. By and large, most gun dealers respect and follow the law, but the small group of dealers that do not should be held accountable – not protected by the disastrous legislation being considered in Congress. It’s time to hold these dealers responsible for their illegal actions – and that’s exactly what this lawsuit intends to do.”

“The gun dealers named in this lawsuit have sold guns in violation of a number of federal and state statutes, and the lawsuit asks the Court to prohibit these illegal gun sales, appoint a special master to monitor the dealers, and require sellers to submit to mandatory training,” said Corporation Counsel Cardozo. “The lawsuit also seeks compensation for the cost of abating the nuisance created by these defendants, compensatory damages to
New York City, and punitive damages in order to deter other rogue dealers from engaging in the illegal practices described in the complaint.”

Over the past six weeks, investigators from the James Mintz Group, a private investigative firm employed by the City, traveled to five states to confirm what gun trace data had already shown probable – that these gun dealers were violating federal laws governing firearms sales. The investigators, in teams of two, entered gun stores and followed a scenario commonly known as “straw purchasing” – where one individual makes all of the inquiries into purchasing the gun, and then the other individual, completely uninvolved in the sale process, fills out the required federal forms to pass the background check. Federal law prohibits licensed dealers from selling firearms to individuals when they have a reasonable belief that the firearm being sold is not for the person who purports to be the purchaser. A 2002 U.S. Department of Justice publication describes “straw purchasing” as follows:

“Straw purchases are one of the most frequent methods used to divert firearms out of lawful commerce, where they are a heavily regulated commodity, and onto the street, where they are available to anyone. Convicted felons will simply use a friend, a family member or a girlfriend to buy a gun for them. The felon provides the money for the gun, selects the gun, and directs the purchase. The straw purchaser just fills out all the required paperwork, posing as the buyer.”

All 15 dealers named in the suit sold a gun to a team of undercover investigators, who wore hidden cameras during their sting operations. Of the stores that they visited, one-in-three dealers refused the sale, confirming the fact that dealers know and understand the law. Even in the face of obvious “red lights” that should have immediately ended the discussion between dealer and customer, including that the straw purchaser did not participate in the transaction until the time came to fill out the federal forms and did not pay for the gun, two-thirds of the targeted dealers sold to the straw purchaser.

The 15 dealers named in the suit are:
A-1 Jewelry and Pawn, Inc Augusta GA
Big Tom's Pawn Shop Savannah GA
Adventure Outdoors Smyrna GA
AAA Pawnbrokers Hephizbah GA
The Gun Store, Inc. Doraville GA
Peddler's Post Washington OH
Jim’s Guns and Whatever Dayton OH
Gallery Distributing Mount Penn PA
Dunkelberger's Sports Outfitters Stroudsburg PA
Woody's Pawnshop Orangeburg SC
Mickalis Pawnshop Summerville SC
Webb's Sporting Goods Madison Heights VA
Old Dominion Gun & Tackle Danville VA
Cole's Gun Shop South Boston VA
Patriot Services Richmond VA

“These gun dealers are the worst of the worst,” said Criminal Justice Coordinator Feinblatt. “They represent a small group of immoral and irresponsible dealers who are knowingly breaking the law and causing irreparable harm to innocent New Yorkers. When it comes to this group of bad apples, we will be relentless. It is our duty to make sure that they no longer get a free pass for the terrible human cost they inflict on our City.”

“Too many New York City police officers have paid with their lives to allow flagrant straw purchases to continue unchallenged,” said Police Commissioner
Raymond W. Kelly.

The law firm of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman will field a team of ten pro-bono litigators to appear on behalf of the City and assist in the litigation.

“This litigation has the potential to improve the safety and security of every New Yorker, by helping staunch the flow of illegal guns into the city,” said Ken Taber, chair of the New York litigation group of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP.

Mayor Bloomberg is using a comprehensive three-pronged approach of stronger enforcement, new legislation and innovative litigation to combat illegal guns. Enforcement efforts include creating specialized Gun Courts, which have resulted in longer sentences for gun offenders, working to introduce gun shot detection cameras that will discourage the use and possession of illegal guns, and establishing a “debriefing” protocol for every felony gun defendant, which is helping law enforcement agencies learn more about the identities of gun traffickers. The Mayor is also seeking new City and State legislation to close loopholes and increase penalties for illegal guns, and to require gun dealers to do more to protect against lost and stolen guns.

The Mayor is also actively opposing federal legislation that would protect irresponsible gun dealers by limiting access to trace data and preventing law enforcement agencies from holding them fully accountable. Recognizing that illegal guns are a national problem requiring national leadership, Mayor Bloomberg, together with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, recently hosted a Mayors’ Summit on Illegal Guns that was attended by more than a dozen mayors from across the nation, from Seattle to Dallas to Philadelphia. The nonpartisan group of mayors discussed cutting-edge policing and legal strategies, identified opportunities for greater coordination in combating the flow of illegal guns, and signed a statement of principles to guide their efforts going forward.




I'm not enough of a legal mind to comment on the jurisdiction questions alone, but this could be devasting to any of the businesses involved.

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!

May Bloomberg's lawsuit prompts chapter 11 firesales, streets flooded with high quality guns at discount prices.



Straw purchasers flock to "easy" gun shops identified by Mayor Bloomberg



In cheap investigative stunt, Bloomberg tries to muster respect for so called "gun trace" data.

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!

No he's not and never claimed to be.

As to the OP, just how is he going to go about enforcing federal law?

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!

Inside the Blue Strongholds, it doesn't matter. All you can do is lock the doors and wait for the zombies to stop moving.

The investigators, in teams of two, entered gun stores and followed a scenario commonly known as “straw purchasing


Well isn't it interesting that these two admitted felons aren't facing charges.

If the gun shops did something illegal, then so did the purchasers.

Its illegal to do a straw purchases, but is it illegal to be duped?

No he's not and never claimed to be.

Must be the R beside his name in the elections stands for Retired....
Yes, he was a Democrat, then a Republican. Just goes to show
there's really no difference between the Partiyas in Amerika anymore.

Quote RE: Blubberburg being a Republican

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!


Just because you give an idiot a rope, doesn't make him a cowboy.

Just because he says he is one, doesn't make him a true Republican. Just as Hillary Clinton saying she is a Democrat, doesn't make her one. She is really a Socialist. So is Bloomburg.

Just goes to show
there's really no difference between the Partiyas in Amerika anymore.

You guys are stretching a little trying to make Bloombergs position the Republican position.

Thats like using Zell Miller to say Democrats are strong on defense.

He is a authoritarian statis Republican to the core. He believes that government can solve societys ills through regulation, mandates, bans and police power.

The law firm of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman will field a team of ten pro-bono litigators to appear on behalf of the City and assist in the litigation.

“This litigation has the potential to improve the safety and security of every New Yorker, by helping staunch the flow of illegal guns into the city,” said Ken Taber, chair of the New York litigation group of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP. :barf: Brings shame to all fellow members of the bar.:fire: :cuss:

Anxious to read the complaint. Should be amusing.

Republicans? What Republicans?

Bloomberg is the most dangerous kind of Socialist...........A very rich one.

Kevin

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!

Yes, and Handgun Control is counting on that to make inroads among the people who oppose their insidious agenda, in an effort to paint that agenda as having "bipartisan" support. I think that pols like Bloomberg, John and Lincoln Chafee and Arlen Specter, more than anything else, justify the contention that there is no difference between the Rs and the Ds. If we had more Zell Miller-type Democrats to counter them, we'd be a lot better off. I'd love to see someone suggest that last thing to Markos Moulitasas Zuniga or Duncan "Atrios" Black. I'd pay to see their reaction, too, and if anyone wanted to join me, all I'd say, y'all bring the chips & dip, and I'll bring the beer. :D

If those dealers are out of state then the jurisdiction belongs to that STATE'S COURTS. Not some kangaroo new dork city court. If he thought they somehow wronged him he should have filed suit in the respective states.

Unless he is admitting he is trying to regulate interstate commerce, which is blatantly unconstitutional because it is reserved for you know who...

Each gun dealer should sue him under US Code Title 18 for deprivation of their civil rights under the color of law. The 6th Amendment guarantees a trial in the jurisdiction where the 'crime' was committed. If he sent his jackboots to other states to make straw purchases then the 'crime' was obviously committed in those states, NOT NEW YORK.

About 20 lawsuits personally directed at bloomingidiot for deprivation of civil rights might do the trick. Then after that he can face federal felony charges for the civil rights violations as a government official.

Then bring up federal charges against his jackboots for commission of straw purchases. The ATF is authorized by law to perform stings where they commit straw purchase. New Dork city jackboots are NOT authorized to break federal law.

KEVIN QUINLAN - "Bloomberg is the most dangerous kind of Socialist...........A very rich one."
_________________________________________________________________


Yep. That's why I created a phrase for their like when I lived in Los Angeles.

The Megamillionaire Marxists and Billionaire Bolsheviks.

They're all the same.

L.W.

Wow...I've dealt with two of the companies on that list...

I hope this kind of crap comes back and bites Bloomberg...getting tired of all his anti-gun rhetoric when he should have much larger fish to fry.

Need bunch more info before drawing any conclusions. Criminal litigation federa level? Criminal litigation state level? Civil litigation federal or state? Where is the action to be filed. Is this just a modification of the manufacturers lawsuits of years ago?

Lots of questions and no answers. I suspect the NRA is drawing a bead.

Mayor bloomberg may be a Republican in New York, but in most other places he is just another of those control freak Marxists. Let him prove his dedication by having his security detail (hell, all NTPD) disarm first, including the pepper spray.

He's on a crusade against "illegal guns".



Mayors Call for Renewed Focus on Gun Violence

http://www.nlc.org/Newsroom/Nation_s_Cities_Weekly/Weekly_NCW/2006/05/08/9835.cfm

by Mike Wallace

A bi-partisan coalition of mayors from cities large and small met recently in New York City to discuss strategies cities have developed to fight the supply of illegal guns and curb gun violence.

Hosted by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, the “Summit on Illegal Guns” attracted 15 mayors, including NLC Immediate Past President Mayor Anthony A. Williams of Washington, D.C.

The mayors pledged to initiate joint lobbying efforts against harmful federal legislation and to begin championing litigation against rogue gun dealers.

“The fight against illegal guns is one that reaches beyond our borders and today’s summit opens the dialogue with leaders across this country who have made safety in their neighborhoods and on their streets a top priority,” said Mayor Bloomberg.

“Gun violence is a problem in too many American cities but meetings like this are a good way of both raising awareness and finding good solutions to common problems,” added Mayor Williams.

The mayors adopted a “Statement of Principles” identifying specific areas on which they could work together.

“This is not a question of ideologies or a referendum on the Second Amendment,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “This is about public safety and making sure that illegal guns never make their way into the hands of criminals and onto our streets.”

The principles focus on support for punishing criminals who possess, use, and traffic in illegal guns and targeting irresponsible gun dealers.

Other principles include: opposing federal efforts to restrict municipal ability to share law enforcement data or to interfere with the ability of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to combat illegal gun trafficking; developing and using technologies that aid in the detection and tracing of illegal guns; and, supporting legislative efforts to solve the illegal gun challenge.

Note the by line: by Mike Wallace:rolleyes:

I bought my first rifle (used 10/22) from Patriot Services at a Manassas gun show a few years back. Seemed to be a one-man operation, and he made me fill out all the paperwork to a "T."

As for the complaints filed, it sounds like these guys are driving the proverbial Mack truck through the loophole Judge Weinstein gave them against the lawsuit immunity bill.

Namely, state-level "public nuisance" violations are "against the law," and therefore lawsuits based on a public nuisance claim get exempted from the lawsuit ban because the lawsuit preemption does not apply to actions in "violation of the law." (you guys follow that one?):banghead:

I am not sure how they shoehorned this case into a Federal court. Seems like it should be in a state court. Unless they want to get Weinstein as trial judge . .. want to take bets? :rolleyes: Maybe they are grasping at the "residents of two states" and "case or controversy over a certain amount of $$" hooks . . .

Pillsbury Winthrop, eh? That's all they could muster?:rolleyes:

Mike is going after business owners when the cops (nypd) are beating up little girls. I think his priority is mixed up.:fire:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/417947p-352847c.html

Interested in reading the complaint; but it strikes me as another egregious abuse of taxpayer money to fund a loser lawsuit against a legitimate business in order to pose as "tough on guns".

I hope Bloomberg runs for President in 2008 so I can have the pleasure of voting against that slimeball.

BR, what IF it's Hillary vs Bloomberg ??:eek:

:D

There are at least 3 stores that are listed in GA that I've personally bought guns from and one in Savannah, I personally know the owner who is a retired Sergeant-Major from the 3rd Ranger Battalion. This man's character and business ethics are beyond reproach, I don't believe that he would ever intentionally violate the law as described by Bloomberg and his gun hating flunkies.

Anyway, his lawsuit is on borrowed time after it leaves activist Judge Weinstein's courtroom.

According to Pillsbury's webpage for the lead lawyer Taber, the lawsuit alleges public nuisance and negligence.

http://www.pillsburylaw(DOT)com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/portal/ep/profDetail.do?bio=15238

Today's stunt is just a pile-on to the existing crusade.

Pillsbury is just another big firm that gets paid big bucks to defend wealthy clients from plaintiffs trying to seek justice and have their day in court. I find it not surprising that they are now going to try and stomp on these small-time FFL's.

I've purchased several firearms from Patriot Services in Richmond. Jim is a fine gentleman who follows all state and federal firearms laws to the letter. If he has to hire a lawyer to defend against this lawsuit, I'll gladly contribute to a legal defense fund on his behalf.

Mayor Bloomberg,
You should be ashamed. If you win your crusade, you will be known as the man who destroyed the second ammendment and the bill of rights. Perhaps you think our founding fathers are no longer relevant, or that your political career is more important than our constitution. I would not want that to be my legacy. Do you?
You may also wish to consider that in disarming the people, you also disarm the minorities. Perhaps you should consider the experiences of disarmed minorities over the past century. Does the phrase "never again" ring a bell? If you think fascism can't happen here, look in the mirror.:banghead:

BR, what IF it's Hillary vs Bloomberg ??

Twice the pleasure as I will be able to vote against Bloomberg in the Republican primaries and vote against Hillary in the general election. If the general election comes down to that choice, I will definitely be going the third party route.

& I don't even miss it a little.
Dear God please remove the blight of liberalism that infects my home town so I can visit once before I die.

I still can't find a copy of the complaint available online. Anybody seen it yet? Please PM me if you can find the complaint.

Suggestion for the State of the Union address...(short version under either Hillary or Bloomberg)



"The state of the Union is that we are failed as one.
Good night...

...and may Secular Humanistic thought bless America."

I read that they went in and did straw purchases and captured the stuff on Camera.

If shops are clearly allowing straw purchases, then they need to answer for it. That's the kind of stuff that ruins it for everyone else and gives anti's stuff to use against gun owners.

They'll say "See.. even with rules and regulations, gun shops are knowingly allowing illegal purchases!"


http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=LNA%2FMGArticle%2FLNA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137836102635&path=!news!archive

New York City hired private investigators to make “straw purchases” at the stores during the past six weeks.

The “straw purchases” involved teams of two investigators posing as customers, with one selecting the gun, directing the purchase and providing the money. The “straw purchaser” filled out the required paperwork and posed as the buyer, according to the release.

The investigators, who wore hidden cameras, reported that two-thirds of the targeted dealers sold to the straw purchaser.

Federal law prohibits licensed dealers from selling guns to people when they have a reasonable belief that the gun being sold is not for the person who purports to be the purchaser.

I figure the next stop for Bloomberg will be on either 60 Minutes or Dateline. They're not going to confine this fight to the courtroom even though the letter of the law is against them.

the NYC Mayor's website (http://www.nyc(dot)gov/portal/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=beb0d8fdaa9e1607a62fa24601c789a0&epi_menuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0&epi_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0) has a video showing two dealers confronted with suspicious buyers.

One dealer refused a sale, and the other made the sale. The "suspicousness" differed slightly in both cases, though. Case #1 was a guy who told the dealer his female companion would be filling out the paperwork. Case #2 was a guy who made known to the dealer that he wasn't a state resident, but that his female companions was a state resident and would fill out the 4473.:eek:

It seems that the ATF trace data was used to target the dealers in the sting. However, it is not clear if the guns recovered in NYC were obtained in straw sales from those dealers or were stolen, etc. Those tidbits will come out at trial, probably.

I guess the Pillsbury lawyers are hoping to convince a NYC judge or jury that it is "more likely than not" that the illegal NYC guns were purchased during a straw purchase instead of being stolen from a legal owner. I wonder if there is any info on them being reported stolen . . .

Yes. The "lawsuit" is unlikely to gain any traction. It is a publicity stunt to embarrass the BATFE into prosecuting the dealers (and not the straw purchasers or illegal tape recorders).

I still cannot find a copy of the complaint.:banghead:

They are violating Federal law

Also videos don't work

I just picked up a .22 from Jim Jarrett at Partiot Services. I talked to him for an hour or so and he hasn't yet been served any papers but got to see the complaint from another source. The 78 page complaint has three pages pertaining to him. He is not happy about it obviously. He said that at any time, any FFL can be crushed by lawyers because of money. He mentioned the NYC lawyers working for Bloomberg for free. He is hopful that the NRA will come and help out.

He is a great guy and seems to be fastidious in his record keeping (prior life he was an accountant) and is miffed considering he has had ATF agents auditing him every year for 15 years and FBI ect., and never had any problems before Bloomberg got a bug up his butt.

here is a little blurb from the local news and a video clip too...

http://www.nbc12.com/home/2804166.html

"Jarrett of Patriot Services in Richmond says he personally looks over all of his sales at gun shows as does the Virginia State Police. He says he's not afraid of prosecutors, judges or agents, because he hasn't done anything wrong."

have a great day
cavman

Jim was always careful to dot "i's" and cross "t's". The whole idea of a straw purchase seems very difficult to identify. Who knows what he purchaser of the gun will really do?

I haven't seen the films, so I can't say.

But on Channel 6, the reporter asked him about the age of his helpers. Guess he's hired 17 yo guys to work the gunshows. Might explain why this got by him, I'd bet that these are transactions he'd normally pass on (he is meticulous records keeper, and errs on the side of caution). I've certainly seen others in the area refuse sales when it was obvious what was going on.

the NYC Mayor's website (http://www.nyc(dot)gov/portal/index....2fa24601c789a0) has a video showing two dealers confronted with suspicious buyers.

You need to put a warning on that video... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

get rid of the ".com" and make the "(dot)" a "."

cavman

I'm in Stroudsburg, and was walking past Dunkelburgers in the midst of a local reporter filing a story about the case. There were 2 other local (or relatively local) reporters either waiting to do or that just finished their own stories.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few weeks. I assume if they were extremely negligent about a 'straw purchase' there could be major repercussions to the store.

I thought more people knew about the "no link back" thing. I would rather not have NYC or Pillsbury see where their traffic is coming from, so I did take out a "dot" from the link. Where I have"(dot)" should be a "." (like what cavman said) :o

What kind of warning should the video get?

What kind of warning should the video get?

It's extremely emotionally distressing for any gun owner to watch (contains Schumer and Bloomberg)...and you need to make sure you're wearing your hip waders 'cause it gets deep pretty fast...

You'll also hear a lot of 'for officer safety' and 'for our children' :barf:

A couple of yeaqrs ago the New York times ran an article on crime gun traces in NYC and surrounding area. It seemed that most of the crime guns being traced by the NCIS had originally been sold by a large NYC gunstore. This gunstore was run by X-NYC police officers and employed active officers partime at the counter. They would not even let folks who did not have an NYC pistol permit even look at a gun let alone buy it. Many of the guns had been sold 10, 15 even 20 years ago.

But in any event it was the big very strict politically connected gunshop in NYC that was the originator of most of the "crime" guns traced.

I cant think of the name of the store but they are not even mentioned here

Wonder why?????

I still can't find a copy of the complaint. :banghead:

I did find this Yahoo article* that reveals that the case has been assigned to the infamous Judge Weinstein in the Eastern District of NY.:fire: What would otherwise be a straightforward dismissal for lack of personal jurisdiction, lack of subject matter jurisdiction, and failure to state a claim on which relief can be granted will be allowed to drag on with the prospect of bankrupting the gun dealers. :cuss:


*http://biz.yahoo.com/law/060516/990e40f27794e95b587afed91f11acbd.html?.v=1

A copy of the complaint is attatched. The civil cover sheet filed with it listed the other case NYC has pending before Judge Weinstein as a "related case" so it would be automatically assigned to him. :fire:

I'm not sure how we can contribute to the defeat of Bloomberg's evil cause. "Justice" from Judge Weinstein is not possible, so legal tactics are futile until an appeal. The "Court of Public Opinion" is asleep on this and apathetic when awakened.

I'm interested in ideas.:confused:

Bloomberg is the most dangerous kind of Socialist...........A very rich one.

Kevin

Well said.

Hmmm, looks like pretty much every cause of action stated in the complaint is already covered by the Frivlous Lawsuit law that passed not so long ago. Of course, Judge Weinstein has already declared the suit against Colt isn't covered by that law so I am sure he will have no trouble allowing this suit to go forward as well.

It is a shame that because of one judge with an obvious bias that none of these people will be able to get a fair trial until they either get a new judge or appeal the decision.

It looks like NYC just went around with a guy and a girl looking at guns. The guy would do all the talking and then the girl would buy. Anybody who allowed that sale to go through got sued. They avoided actually breaking the law by not having the woman actually transfer the gun (so no straw purchase ever took place).

I don't think they have much chance of winning ultimately; but I am sure they knew that. I imagine their main goal is to allow Bloomberg to grandstand and to chill gun sales in general by making gun dealers afraid to sell to anyone.

In every one of their "simulated straw purchases," if the FFL committed a crime, so did both of the "investigators." I'd love to see them charged locally by a prosecutor with some guts. :D


Frankly, I'm left with the conclusion that "gun trafficing" would stop if NYC repealled all of its stupid and unConstitutional prohibitions. They also make it look to me like "gun trafficing" is a downright patriotic thing to do. :fire: I'm confident that our founding fathers would agree.


There are many other legal criticisms I could point out, but it is useless in Weinstein's kangaroo court.

The New York gun trafficking would stop if other states would pass laws making it legal to shoot on sight anyone from New York. Especially the politicians.

I predict after a year of that law no NY criminal or slimy gungrabber would dare venture into another state to commit crimes. Problem solved and no American lost their rights.

The New York gun trafficking would stop if other states would pass laws making it legal to shoot on sight anyone from New York. Especially the politicians.

I predict after a year of that law no NY criminal or slimy gungrabber would dare venture into another state to commit crimes. Problem solved and no American lost their rights.

Except you would be violating the rights of the people from NYS. Please keep dumb comments like this to yourself. This only reinforces the stereotype of gun owners as ignorent rednecks that are a danger to everyone because of their radical ideas.

in seven years is 71 crime guns per year, divided by 15 stores is <5 crime guns/store/year.
That hardly seems a flood.

Judge Weinstein is a federal judge right???

Isnt there a process for filing for the impeachment of a federal judge if the judge ignores the law on a regular basis???

That hardly seems a flood.

Especially in Patriot Services' case, where they sell 3000 firearms a year, and NYC claims that 50 have been seized between 1994 and 2005.

50 out of 30000 = "numbers that far exceed recoveries for other comparably-situated retail gun dealers"?! :what:

The complain charges Patriot Services with negigence for having an apparent 16 y/o handle the 4473, while someone else handles the sale.

The complaint alleges three causes of action:

1) Public Nuisance, (based on a state "Penal Law")

2) Criminal Nuisance (under NYS law!)

3) negligence per se based on the violation of the state criminal nuisance law (!)

4) Generic negligence

5) Negligence Entrustment

As for Pillsbury's "pro bono" effort, of course the relief sought includes "reasonable attorney's fees." I am not surprised, since 1/4 of their litigation department is involved in this case. The litigation department is a huge source of revenue for the firm that is tied up in this case "for free."

Except you would be violating the rights of the people from NYS.

You mean blue state filth gets mad too when people in OTHER states try to dictate what rights they should or shouldn't have?

Hi pot. Hi kettle.

Isnt there a process for filing for the impeachment of a federal judge if the judge ignores the law on a regular basis???

In this case, the bill made an exception for FFLs who broke the law in selling guns. NYC's answer to that was to say selling guns was a "public nuisance" and then argue that FFLs were breaking this law. Even though the city had never advanced that argument before, Judge Weinstein agreed and declared that the previous gun suits fell under that exception.

You'll notice this complaint alleges the same thing pretty much and is in Judge Weinstein's court, so I would expect the same result.

As far as impeaching goes, the House brings charges and the Senate tries the case with the Vice-President presiding. A 2/3 vote of the Senate is necessary to convict and not just any crime will do, it must be "treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors." From a political perspective, it would be real unlikely to happen and moreso in an election year.

But....but....but....HES A REPUBLICAN!!!!

So is Ron Paul. What's your point? :scrutiny:

I just watched those videos finally. Firefox doesn't leave the address up there when the link doesn't work so I couldn't edit. Had to copy over to Explorer. I have never heard of the "no direct linking" bunk.

Anyway, The first guy who refused the sale I thought was being pretty cautious. If the 2nd person comes up and says "I am buying the gun. It is for me." How can you refuse the sale? The 2nd guy screwed up by handling the transaction completely with the man and only involved the woman in the paperwork. I guess it is a little suspicious when the woman didn't even handle the gun or hardly look at it. I don't have the experience to judge that too much though. I can see where that could easily happen legitimately as well.

Bring up another question for FFL holders: How often do you get a man and a woman come in where the man is buying a gun for the woman or helping the woman buy a gun? How do you tell the difference between that and a straw purchase?

One other question: Isn't it only a straw purchase if the gun shop owner suspects the person not doing the paperwork cannot legally buy a gun?


I guess I have a problem with the fact that the gov is forcing FFL's to enforce the law themselves far beyond reasonable precautions.

One other question: Isn't it only a straw purchase if the gun shop owner suspects the person not doing the paperwork cannot legally buy a gun? The ATF says no, even if the other person could legally buy it, it is an illegal straw purchase.

I don't know why this was such a big deal, but here are the direct links:

Video of the sales (both good and bad):
http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2006a/media/pc051506-ATF300k.asx

Mayor's office website with archived press conference video:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=beb0d8fdaa9e1607a62fa24601c789a0&epi_menuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0&epi_baseMenuID=27579af732d48f86a62fa24601c789a0

I apologize for the confusion . . .

I feel kind of bad for the guy running Patriot Services. Haven't dealt with him - his transfer fees are too high - but all the same he seems like a decent guy. Expecting that the NRA will ride in to help him out is not the way to go. Call me cynical but I just don't think the NRA will be putting up much of a fight for him or anyone else in this case.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/0518edequal.html

N.Y. gun suit all about headlines

By ALAN GOTTLIEB
Published on: 05/18/06

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's lawsuit against 15 alleged "rogue" firearms dealers in five states is political grandstanding run amok.

The press and prosecutors in those five states ought to be asking Bloomberg why, if his investigators had positively identified these retailers and caught them in an illegal act, was the information not turned over to the proper authorities, including the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives?

Instead, the headline-hunting Bloomberg launched a civil lawsuit in what should be, if he is to be believed, a criminal action.

There's a reason for that. The private investigators New York hired to conduct this sting must have made deliberately false statements on federal firearms purchase forms. That's a felony. They should be prosecuted. If Bloomberg sent them to do this, he's an accessory, if not a conspirator.

Given Bloomberg's anti-gun history, and that of New York's previous unsuccessful efforts to sue firearms manufacturers, he is turning his attention to retailers. Yet, his ultimate goal remains the same, and it has nothing to do with stopping criminals.

His intent, and that of his cheerleaders, is to demonize gun owners and ultimately drive gun manufacturers out of business while destroying the individual right to keep and bear arms in the process.

Behind this pathetic charade is Bloomberg's hope of stopping federal legislation that would prevent cities from gaining access to firearms tracing data. He and other anti-gun mayors want to conduct legal fishing expeditions to bolster junk lawsuits against gun makers, which Congress outlawed last year. Those data are available to law enforcement agencies conducting bona fide criminal investigations, and he knows it.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation has a superb program called "Don't Lie for the Other Guy," aimed at stopping illegal gun purchases. Bloomberg prefers not to cooperate with the gun industry to catch criminals, but to grab headlines in what can only be described as a campaign that is hideously bloated with flash, but deplorably lacking in substance.

• Alan Gottlieb is founder of the Second Amendment Foundation.

So is Ron Paul. What's your point?
~Zundfolge

I love it.

The two parties are coalitions. Zel Miller and Nacy Pelosi.

Bloomberg and Paul.

The parties mean nothing. They are only a vehicle for getting more money to already often fairly well off people by using the coercive force of government to gain advantages for them they couldn't pick up in the marketplace.