Careful what you say when in Boulder CO comrades


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Sindawe
May 16, 2006, 01:11 PM
Hate hotline puts speech on hold

By David Harsanyi
Denver Post Staff Columnist
DenverPost.com

There's a famous joke that goes like this:

What's the difference between a Rottweiler and a Jewish mother? Eventually, the Rottweiler lets go.

Now, some Jews may find that joke offensive. I don't. But if you're insulted, and you live in Boulder, you're in luck. Soon enough, you may be able to report me to the authorities.

Tuesday, the Boulder City Council will take up the matter of allocating public funding for a "hate hotline," which would give residents an opportunity to report incidents in which Boulderites use tactless language.

"Our concern - and there are many - is that there is no confidentiality, no legal confidentiality," explains Judd Golden, chairman of the Boulder American Civil Liberties Union, which has not yet taken an official position on the hate-line. "So it's potentially chilling if people think they are providing this information in confidence and then that information were provided to the government or the government sought access to it. That would chill free speech."

Golden says the agenda item on the hotline is "extensive" and a "real dilemma" for the ACLU. There are some very "broad standards" laid out in the resolution.

There is, for instance, the policy statement condemning the usual individual or collective acts of racism and bigotry. Great. But it also condemns those who attack "personal beliefs and values."

"Well, for the ACLU, that goes over the line," Golden says. "You can object to free speech just because someone is a Republican or a Democrat."

What would happen to the bumper- sticker industry?

So, it seems that since purifying our thoughts is still beyond technology's reach, Boulder will now attempt to achieve politically correct speech codes in other ways.

The council should realize, however ugly it may be, Americans still have the constitutional right to be racist, homophobic, Jew-hating or even to make bad jokes - as anyone who's heard the one about the redneck who invented the ejection seat on the helicopter can tell you.

The most serious question, however, is will the hate-line folks forward their files to the Boulder police or City Council?

"The devil's in the details," says Golden. "That's the question. There is no present indication that they intend to do anything like that in the future."

Intention? Sorry, that's not good enough. But that's not even the worst part of it. You could - possibly - rationalize this if it weren't utterly useless.

Phillip Martinez beat up a 22-year-old African-American mechanical-engineering student named Andrew Sterling last year in Boulder. He was sentenced to the maximum of 16 years in prison. The jury wisely decided to drop "ethnic intimidation" charges.

Would a hate-line have helped Sterling? Martinez was from Lafayette, not Boulder. He was drunk. He may not have even cared that Sterling was black.

Should everyone keep the hate-line number on their cellphone speed dial from now on? And remember, only call if your attacker uses racist or insensitive language while beating you to a pulp. After all, according to hate-law advocates, it's not genuine hate unless the perpetrator makes fun of your heritage.

Now, Coloradans don't always consider Boulder a reality-based community. But we all betray a serious lack of confidence in our system of freedoms when we take these sorts of measures.

When that incomparable dope the Rev. Fred Phelps and his hate-mongering brood hit town mocking dead soldiers and gays, we handed them their biggest victory: curbing free speech through legislation to shut them up.

"These things have come up with attempts to criminalize hate speech on campus, those kinds of situations," explains Golden. "Certainly, if it just provides an opportunity to call and have a welcome voice and some kinds of soothing response to their concerns, that would be fine. Speech is good."

Speech is good? Well, not always. But it should generally be free.

Source: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3823356

See also: http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/8383/C94/L94

Boulder must have gotten a fresh shipment of wacky-tobbacy recently. :banghead:

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Nitrogen
May 16, 2006, 01:25 PM
The ACLU seems against it, so most people on here will probably be for it. :neener:
*ducks*

ArmedBear
May 16, 2006, 01:26 PM
THIS is a perfect example of why I oppose "progressives" even if they are "pro-gun."

Zundfolge
May 16, 2006, 01:34 PM
The ACLU seems against it, so most people on here will probably be for it.
The only reason the ACLU seems to be against it is because its not anonymous ... in other words if you report your neighbor for thoughtcrime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_crime) its possible that your name will be entered into the record and you might be held accountable for reporting your comrade.


So if they get their way it will be both anti 1st amendment (at least in spirit) and anti "face your accuser" (which is an important part of our legal system).

Gotta keep the Christians in line ya know ... for the good of the Reich.

MrTuffPaws
May 16, 2006, 01:46 PM
The only reason the ACLU seems to be against it is because its not anonymous ... in other words if you report your neighbor for thoughtcrime its possible that your name will be entered into the record and you might be held accountable for reporting your comrade.

You should read it again. The ACLU is against it because the definition can be read as not only covering hate speech, but also personal beliefs and values, which is to broad.

Hate speech is not protected, but when you personal beliefs and values are hate, then it gets sticky, and IMO, you got issues.

Tomcat1066
May 16, 2006, 01:47 PM
Thought crimes, here we come :rolleyes:

Tom

LAR-15
May 16, 2006, 03:08 PM
ACLU HAS NOT TAKEN A POSTITION ON IT!


They are salivating over the fact of someone reporting a Christian pastor's sermon as hate speech but realize Christians could also report them for hate speech.

Boulder American Civil Liberties Union, which has not yet taken an official position on the hate-line.

scottgun
May 16, 2006, 04:34 PM
Besides the assault reported in this article, there have been other incidents of "hate speech", one where 2 college students sent an e-mail containing threats and racial slurs, and a couple of other incidents of racial slurs.

So Boulder, being the progressive reactionary town that it is, set up a committee to deal with this huge problem of racial intolerance. So here we have the knee jerk reaction of criminalizing words and thoughts to promote tolerance.

I live in Boulder and I don't give a **** if some ******** doesn't like what I say. Free speech isn't there for ideas you agree with.

Turkey Creek
May 16, 2006, 06:00 PM
Hmmm, I can either walk around on egg shells or they can bite me- anyone guees which one I choose :banghead:

Zundfolge
May 16, 2006, 06:40 PM
You should read it again.

ok

"Our concern - and there are many - is that there is no confidentiality, no legal confidentiality," explains Judd Golden, chairman of the Boulder American Civil Liberties Union,

so how did I get that wrong again? :scrutiny:

Azrael256
May 16, 2006, 06:46 PM
*sigh*... Y'know, I never thought I'd say this, but I would be willing to sponsor a Klan rally on the steps of city hall if they pass this law.

ArmandTanzarian
May 16, 2006, 06:50 PM
You got it exactly right, Zund. The ACLU is, as you say, wanting to take a position that is both anti-speech AND anti-right-to-face-accuser - the only thing they want to be FOR is tattle-telling on the exercise of speech, for purposes of ??? (I'm unclear on whether it's actually been made a crime to say racist/sexist/etc. things - I can't imagine that it'd be constitutional though). Shows the utter hypocrisy of ACLU and how we really need a TRUE civil liberties union, that prioritizes first things first - that the 2nd amendment is first among equals.

AF_INT1N0
May 16, 2006, 07:02 PM
Azreal 256--

I'd sponsor one anyway.

It's good to witness things you don't agree with and things that offend your sense of being every once in a while.

1. It reminds you where you stand (I hate the clan). Sometimes It's good to see them to remember why.
2. It reminds you that they have the right to say it and you have the right to call them *********s for saying it. :neener:

I grew up near Boulder... They are like Sanfransicko in the Rockies.

Azrael256
May 16, 2006, 07:14 PM
It's good to witness things you don't agree with and things that offend your sense of being every once in a while. Definitely. I watched a couple minutes of a klan event from a respectable distance once. I turned off my ability to be offended for a few minutes just so I could see that these people are completely real, not just really good CGI done at the TV station. If it suddenly becomes illegal for them to peacefully assemble, and by extension illegal for me to verify their existence with my own eyes, it will be impossible to comprehend what has happened when they do something evil, like bomb a church. If I can't figure out what has happened, or who has perpetrated the crime, how the heck am I supposed to do something about it?

Oh, and the bit about the Rottweiler: absolute truth. You guys should've seen how my mother reacted when, at age 24, I told her I was applying to the local PD.

Sindawe
May 16, 2006, 07:23 PM
Y'know, I never thought I'd say this, but I would be willing to sponsor a Klan rally on the steps of city hall if they pass this law.BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That would be such a hoot! I too despise the Klan, but I'd pitch in to support their right to be ninnies in public.

Biker
May 16, 2006, 07:27 PM
Ditto Sindawe.



Biker

ArmedBear
May 16, 2006, 07:29 PM
there have been other incidents of "hate speech", one where 2 college students sent an e-mail containing threats and racial slurs, and a couple of other incidents of racial slurs.

...scratching my head trying to think of a day when I was in college and we DIDN'T say something that Boulder would want to suppress...

spartacus2002
May 16, 2006, 09:05 PM
THR Fire Mission: call it and report Vicente Fox.

callgood
May 16, 2006, 09:25 PM
If I called in to a Boulder talk radio show and said a no-no over the air, could they trace my number and extradite me?

Just want to know how far out their lunacy orbits.

Zundfolge
May 16, 2006, 11:12 PM
THR Fire Mission: call it and report Vicente Fox.

Better yet, call it and report Ward Churchill :evil:

Art Eatman
May 17, 2006, 01:34 PM
"Hate speech is not protected..."? Since when?

I learn something new every day...No, I hear something new every day. I don't have to believe all I hear.

Define "hate speech". Hypothet: Am I using hate speech if I call a black guy a black guy? Are you next going to judge by intonation and facial expression in order to take me to court for having made a factual statement?

What if I call a Liberal a Liberal? Is it impossible for me to vary the meaning by other than just the words themselves?

Social opprobium for the use of certain words and phrases is one thing. I can suport one's disgust for what one considers as hate speech. Trying to make a crime from the utterings of some doofus is another thing entirely--and my opinion is that it's the slipperiest of slippery slopes. Greased owl-poop on wet ice.

Next thing ya know, Aggie jokes will be outlawed...

Art

armorplate
May 17, 2006, 02:26 PM
Back in the early '80's, I was flying a medium Twin for a company. I had the boss and his family on board one sunny day bound for Boulder airport. When
we arrived, I reported down wind for the east runway. Another plane reported 3 miles left base for the same runway. I reported that I had him in site and extended my pattern to allow him to land first. Well by the time I turned base leg another yaw Hoo reported base turning final ahead of me.
I ended up going around to start another down wind approach, only for the same result. On my third attempt the senario started again. I knew now that I was not welcome to land there. I did land on that final attempt, but I let the small trainer pilot with instructor on board that this time I was landing, and if he didn't want tire tracks on top of his pretty little plane, he'd better make the first exit. I was smoking and my approach speed was 25kts. faster. I'm sure glad he made the exit. They did not bother me after that.

Some times you win. I wonder what would happen to me if I didn't play their game today?

Jay Kominek
May 17, 2006, 03:00 PM
Y'know, I never thought I'd say this, but I would be willing to sponsor a Klan rally on the steps of city hall if they pass this law. We could have an NRA rally. It'd be inoffensive to us, and just as offensive to most people in Boulder.

AaronE
May 17, 2006, 03:06 PM
I detest anon "tip lines", sort of shoots down being able to face your accuser. :fire:
Tho I DO know folks who will call them and when asked what was being reported stated the following...

"I think my neighbor is hiding Jews".

Listen to the stunned silence or choking on the other end...and hang up.:scrutiny:

Local School District started one a few years back...the area is heavy with retirees...who went to war in the 1940s. They took HIGH offense and chopped the school board to BITS over that one:cuss: ..and the above comment was made in public in the meeting...and it all went from there.:banghead:

School eventually shut down the tip line. Especially when it was leaked who the local busybodies were that manned the phones.

Aaron

BozemanMT
May 17, 2006, 03:27 PM
Better yet, call it and report Ward Churchill

funny you say that
The school called me about a month ago "give us more money" :scrutiny:
Uh huh, i said "i have a question for you, Does ward churchhill still work there?"

yes he does
oh, well no money for you then
click

AirForceShooter
May 17, 2006, 03:35 PM
hey!!
that's not a joke. It happens to be true.
My Mom wouldn't ever let go.
She'd make a rotty look like a poodle.
To me it's a compliment.
and we won't go into how Jewish grandma's can be.

AFS

foghornl
May 17, 2006, 03:38 PM
Sheeeeeshhhhhh

Is the air as thin in Boulder as it is in Denver?????

spartacus2002
May 17, 2006, 07:29 PM
Tho I DO know folks who will call them and when asked what was being reported stated the following...

"I think my neighbor is hiding Jews".

Listen to the stunned silence or choking on the other end...and hang up.

OUCH! I'm using that one if they ever start that crap here.

Justin
May 17, 2006, 07:54 PM
If Sindawe or one of our other Boulder members did that, I would buy them the libation of their choice at a local watering hole.

Tropical Z
May 17, 2006, 09:11 PM
You have to remember that there are an exceedingly large number of liberal idiots in Boulder.A beautiful town full of fools!:banghead:

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