Thoughts on the PTR-91


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StephenT
May 18, 2006, 12:46 AM
I've been thinking about getting a new battle rifle in 308, something along the lines of a Cetme, FAL or PTR-91. Now I see that Sarco Arms has a special on the PTR-91 for $695, with or without the flash hider, my choice. S&H is a reasonable $15. How is that price? I've seen some threads mentioning that they were $595 at some point. How easy is Sarco to deal with?

I've researched this weapon and people seem to rave about the PTR-91. I already own a VEPR in 308 (the model that came before the VEPR Super), but want something slightly handier and lighter. Will the PTR-91 fit the bill? Thanks for your comments.

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longhorngunman
May 18, 2006, 07:12 AM
Do a search, you'll find a lot of info on them. I got in on that $595 deal and have been pleased. Very well made, fit and finish. Seems to be very accurate and I plan on scoping it at somepoint. Be aware, it can be pain to get a good mount on these things. Also no BHO and the charging handle is a PITA, unlike the FAL design. Extremely reliable design though.

Onmilo
May 18, 2006, 08:54 AM
I bought my PTR-91 from Sarco.
For all the compalining I here about Sarco when it comes to parts orders they are actually very decent to deal with when it comes to firearms.

The only complaint I could voice is that they are very sloww on actually shipping ANYTHING.
Plan to wait 2 to 3 weeks before you get your rifle.
That's better than my last Blade-Tech holster,,,,,that only took 9 weeks to receive!

MechAg94
May 18, 2006, 09:30 AM
I have been thinking of getting a PTR-91. I'll have to look at Sarco's website this evening. That price is hard to pass up.

StephenT
May 18, 2006, 10:33 AM
Thanks, guys. I think I'm going to get one today. They seem to be a lot of bang for the buck.

SnakeEater
May 18, 2006, 12:35 PM
I love my PTR-91. Keep in mind that the furniture and trigger are very very bad. That's easily fixed, Bill Springfield will tune that trigger like no one else, and he's inexpensive. Genuine HK furniture is a great improvement over the American made stuff, and an HK21 rubber buttpad is well worth the $60. Plan on adding about $100 to the overall cost for these things and you'll have a top notch battle rifle. Since any thread without pics is worthless, here ya go.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/975911/PTR001.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/975911/PTR002.jpg

MechAg94
May 18, 2006, 02:18 PM
Thanks Snake. I had read about the upgrades before. That was one reason I liked the price so much.

TX_RGR
May 18, 2006, 06:26 PM
I have one sans flash hider that's not even broken in yet. I might be willing to sell it if anyone's interested. Have a case of SA in sealed rubber and accessories to go with as well. Message me if interested.

TX

StephenT
May 18, 2006, 06:42 PM
I've just sent you an email.

Raygun
May 18, 2006, 06:58 PM
Good luck finding a PTR-91 with a flash hider (at least at Sarco's price). I talked to them a couple of months ago about ordering one, but they didn't have any with flash hiders in stock nor an ETA for when new ones would be coming in. If you don't care about having a flash hider, Sarco's price is pretty hard to beat. Or maybe they have them now.

A day or two after that, I emailed JLD about the cost of threading a barrel and they told me just to wait as they were doing a another production run of the standard rifles in "6 to 10 weeks". That was, IIRC, about two months ago. In the meantime, I set up an order with a local dealer (through POF, I think) and I'm just waiting for the rifle to get here.

phillyd2
May 18, 2006, 07:07 PM
Having owned real deal HK-91's and 93's for year I must admit I love my PTR-91K. You can not go wrong!

MTMilitiaman
May 18, 2006, 08:15 PM
How difficult and expensive is it to get the paddle style mag release? Do you know? That would be my biggest concern as a lefty.

I want a battle rifle and keep going back and forth between a DS Arms Para FAL and a PTR-91, with the occassion urge to go all out on a Fulton Armory M14, so I am really undecided but I must admit the JLDs look very nice.

SnakeEater
May 18, 2006, 10:04 PM
How difficult and expensive is it to get the paddle style mag release? Do you know? That would be my biggest concern as a lefty.
Oh yeah! I'm having that done soon. Around $150 installed, give or take a few $$, most of that is labor. The parts are easy to find for $12-$15, then it's a matter of selecting the smith to do the work. I'm trying to decide if I want IGF (http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com) or Azex Arms (http://www.azexarms.com/) to do the work.

MechAg94
May 18, 2006, 10:54 PM
I noticed Sarco's website says those prices are for dealer's only. Did Sarco make you order through a dealer or did they let you make the purchase and ship to an FFL?

Fingolfin
May 18, 2006, 11:17 PM
I've been wanting one for awhile but the little things put me off. The trigger, the mag release, the weight. I heard a rumor about JLD producing G3 profile barrels which are supposedly not as heavy but no idea if that is true. If they offered this i'd probably get one, and i'd REALLY like a chrome lined option.

SnakeEater
May 19, 2006, 10:19 AM
I don't think people realize just how good these rifles are. Bill Springfield's $50 trigger job took my trigger down to almost equal my K31, with less take up. That is good. Although heavier, the JLD heavy barrel is extremely accurate, I can and have shot 1moa with LC surplus. I paid a lot more for an LRB M14SA than the PTR, surprisingly the PTR can equal or exceed the M14 in every important category.

No more posts from about this, at least until JLD pays me commission.:o

rchernandez
May 19, 2006, 10:40 AM
Atlantic Arms is another site that carries the PTR-91. Has anyone here have experience with them? Price is higher at $799...

MechAg94
May 19, 2006, 02:07 PM
I noticed Sarco's website says those prices are for dealer's only. Did Sarco make you order through a dealer or did they let you make the purchase and ship to an FFL?
Thought I would repost this question to send it to the top. :)

JonSmith
May 19, 2006, 03:01 PM
MechAg94,

You can order from SARCO and have it shipped to your FFL. It's best to have your FFL fax them the license first if he is not in their files, then when you call to order, they can look it up while you are on the phone to confirm the FFL holder, be sure you have the FFL's zip, that's how they file them. They are slow on shipping but stay on top of them, tell them you have to let your FFL know when it was shipped so he can watch for it. They even take credit cards.

On the paddle release, there's another post floating around THR about a product from TachLatch, sounded like you could do the install yourself. The post was in Feb. 2006. I'll do some more research and get back.

Regards, Jon

MTMilitiaman
May 19, 2006, 03:07 PM
I remember reading about the TacLatch, but remember I shoot left handed. If anything, that would just make it slower for me. I think it is worth the time, money, and effort to get the paddle style mag release.

MechAg94
May 19, 2006, 04:01 PM
Thanks Jon.
I'll probably call them Monday. I can check the HGCA gun show in Houston and get my FFL to do the fax by then.

Anthony
May 19, 2006, 06:08 PM
If anyone contacts Sarco let us know how the conversation goes.

I'm interested in one as well.

If you swap the standard J.L.D. furniture for German made pieces are you still in compliance with federal law for the parts count?

I have heard conflicting stories on this.

Stiletto Null
May 19, 2006, 07:43 PM
I thought PTR91s were actually manufactured in the US, making them not subject to 922r?

Feanaro
May 19, 2006, 08:29 PM
I thought PTR91s were actually manufactured in the US, making them not subject to 922r?

The trouble comes from how "manufactured in the US" is defined. There is a list of twenty parts. If more than ten such parts on a rifle are made in a foreign country, it is not made in the U.S. That is why swapping parts would be a problem.

MechAg94
May 19, 2006, 10:36 PM
I thought it was the other way around. 10 US parts had to be on the gun. At least that is what the deal is with imports. Does that law apply to domestic firearms? I thought it had to do with importing sporting firearms.

Car Knocker
May 19, 2006, 10:50 PM
MechAg94,

It's the other way around. Here's an interesting explanation: http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html#TEN_OR_LESS_DISCUSS

klover
May 19, 2006, 11:06 PM
Would someone please post a link to Sarco?

Onmilo
May 19, 2006, 11:26 PM
http://www.sarcoinc.com

The PTR-91 is US made.
When Mr.Denter started up, he was using some Pakistani and/or Portugese made parts.
The company has, or will soon, begun to produce all their parts and the guns are or will soon be completely made in the USA.
They are considered a domestic product and the restrictions of the import ban do not apply.

razorburn
May 24, 2006, 10:59 PM
That's the same thing. See, if there's 20 parts, and less than 10 are made in the U.S., then by definition, the other parts had to have been made elsewhere. If there's less than 10 of those parts are made in the us, then more than 10 has to be made from a foreign country. If more than ten is made in the states, less than ten can be made in a foreign country. Get it?

MechAg94
May 24, 2006, 11:16 PM
What if there are 21 parts? :)

Feanaro
May 25, 2006, 12:40 AM
That's the same thing. See, if there's 20 parts

But, in practice, there aren't. The SKS, for example, only has 16-17 applicable parts from the list. The G3/HK91 design lacks a gas piston. Ten foreign parts or less is easier to communicate and remember, while being more accurate.

VorpalSpork
May 25, 2006, 12:42 AM
What if there are 21 parts? The CFR only defines 20 parts, but it is possible that not all 20 are present on a firearm. It's, No more than 10 imported parts, not 10 domestic parts or more.

18 USC 922(r) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html#r)

27 CFR 178.39 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/04nov20031500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/aprqtr/27cfr178.39.htm)

geekWithA.45
May 25, 2006, 09:01 AM
PTR-91's a great rifle.

My wingman and I review it in detail here: (side by side w/ M1A SS)



http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2006_04_23_geekwitha45_archive.html#114583506381431030

here:

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2006_04_23_geekwitha45_archive.html#114582627394688527


and here:

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2006_02_26_geekwitha45_archive.html#114098591399531464

Tango7
May 29, 2006, 04:22 PM
From http://www.taclatch.com/

FYI: You must have a cut-out in front of the trigger guard like on the real HK's for this product to install at all. JLD Enterprises's PTR91 presently does not have this cutout and in a recent discussion with them they mentioned that they cannot remove this sheetmetal tab due to BATF ruling. According to them it was illegal to remove. Buyers of the Tac-Latch who perform this act of modification are at their own risk and JB Mfg is NOT responsible for any infractions of the law. :barf:

MechAg94
May 29, 2006, 05:55 PM
I have recently found they PTR-91 to be a good gun and rock solid reliable. The mags are good and seem to be pretty consistent. In comparrison, it does kick more than an M1A and the trigger is a lot heavier. The trigger ain't bad, but real heavy. Also, the butt stock is a couple inches shorter than the M1A which made it feel a bit weird to me. Accuracy was just find though the M1A does have been sights. Overall, it is a good .308 rifle for a lot less money than a standard M1A.

I guess Geek said all the same stuff. :)

waterhouse
May 29, 2006, 06:21 PM
I haven't had it for long, but I like mine a lot. When compared to my Greek SAR-8 it is a very nice "copy."

As for the Parts count, there are normally 20 parts, but the PTR-91 series only has 17 of them, or 16 if there is no muzzle device.

The parts are:

(1) receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(4) Muzzle attachments
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Cocking handle
(8) Trigger housing
(9) Trigger
(10) Hammer
(11) Sear
(12) Butt stock
(13) Pistol grip
(14) Forearm
(15) Magazine body
(16) Magazine Follower
(17) Magazine Floor plate

On the PTR-91, the barrel, receiver, trunion, cocking handle, pistol grip, forearm and buttstock are US made (at least on mine they are.) That leaves 10 german made parts to keep in compliance with 922(r). If you replace the furniture with German made parts, you'll need to add other US made parts to get the foreign count back down to 10.

If you buy a Thermold mag and keep it in the gun, that is 3 American parts right there, or you can get a US made trigger, hammer, sear, etc. to correct th parts count.

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