American semi-auto .223s


PDA






Foxtrot427
May 18, 2006, 10:03 PM
I want a SHTF, plinker, .223 rifle. I kind of like "black rifles" and would get an AR but I have heard so much about how sensative they are (unless someone wants to disprove me with some torture tests). I can only spend around $650. If not american, how bout some other reliable .223 black rifles? I would go for a .308 but I would prefer .223

If you enjoyed reading about "American semi-auto .223s" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Car Knocker
May 18, 2006, 10:36 PM
Kel-Tec SU-16, various models:

http://www.kel-tec.com/su16ca.html

af1acura
May 18, 2006, 10:40 PM
get an AR, your torture test is 30+ years of service in the US Military.

blackhawk2000
May 18, 2006, 10:42 PM
I shot close to 1000 rnds of Wolf without cleaning or oiling, over the course of 5-6 months, in competition. Not one problem. I too was leary about the "rumors". Now I know better.

Joe7cri
May 18, 2006, 10:53 PM
I shoot my AR 15 (between 200-300 rds at a time) then clean it afterwards and I've never had a problem. And even though people hate it, I shoot nothing but wolf and do a little extra cleaning.

Bill T
May 18, 2006, 11:11 PM
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/3991/bushmasterm4carbine2td.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bushmasterm4carbine2td.jpg) http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/9792/bushmastercarbon1521spistol5ml.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bushmastercarbon1521spistol5ml.jpg) http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/8272/bushmasterar15a26yb.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bushmasterar15a26yb.jpg)

These 3 belong to my wife and she loves them. Never had a problem with any of them with any kind of ammo. Like any gun, keep it clean and lubed and they will run forever. Bill T.

Bartholomew Roberts
May 18, 2006, 11:36 PM
It depends on what you mean by sensitive... ARs can and have gone thousands of rounds without cleaning. I've found them to be excellent and reliable weapons. Are there rifles that are more reliable? Certainly. Like everything else in life though, you make tradeoffs for that extra reliability.

One issue you probably will face though is at a $650 price point, you won't get a new AR that hasn't had some corners cut during its manufacture. Like any other design, when you start substituting cheaper parts instead of the parts originally intended to be used in the design, it can affect performance - although even most of the cheap ARs are still pretty reliable.

If reliability is your number one concern and you don't want to go any higher on price point, I would take a hard look at the Saiga rifles. If 7,000 rounds without cleaning is reliable enough for your needs, then you might consider buying a low-end AR and taking the small chance that it might need a little tweaking to run 100%.

Schleprok62
May 18, 2006, 11:44 PM
For about $600 you can get the Olympic Arms Plinker Plus... www.olyarms.com.

I't a great little rifle... forged upper and lower, 1:9 16" barrel, 30 round magazine, lifetime warranty... can't beat it for bang for the buck... do a search... quite a few happy owners here at THR...

rangerruck
May 18, 2006, 11:59 PM
saiga, first, second, and last. go here.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/

LoadedDrum
May 19, 2006, 07:05 AM
Mini 14 fits the bill unless you want to shoot ground hogs or do long range work.

Foxtrot427
May 19, 2006, 10:37 AM
I was looking at the SU but I kind of wanted a pistol grip as they almost always are better in my hands. I was considering a PLR-16 but I would only get it if I could put a vertical grip on it. Is that illegal?

If I got an AR I would probably do an oly arms plinker and get a CAR stock or do a del-ton build. Or possibly get a professional ordnance carbon-15 I just dont like the whole, alot of small parts and how its a PITA the clean.

I was also considering an AR-180b but they are hard to find for the price I am looking for.

I would get a saiga but the PG conversions are costly. My other AK would be a VEPR but they are damn near impossible to find.

If Steyr does come back to America, Id love an AUG A3. I know its not totally american, but I cant beat it.

blackwinch
May 19, 2006, 10:59 AM
The US military uses the AR15/M16 under the harshest of conditions...what else can you ask for...They are incredibly accurate and you can set one up anyway that you wish...you can bet heavy bbls, short bbls, long bbls all sorts of stock, great triggers are available...and best of all they are fun...
Bushmaster, Colt, Olympic there are too many to mention for the most part it is hard to go wrong with any of them. I will agree that you either want to make sure you get a chrome lined bore or a stainless one... but don't forget you can get bbls made by the likes of Mike Rock and others in stainless and even carbon fiber.
Jump in the Water is fine!!!

grimjaw
May 19, 2006, 11:06 AM
Foxtrot427, you could always get the Saiga now and have the Tromix conversion done later. FBMG has the .223 version for less than $300 without the conversion, and that beats even used Mini14s that I've seen.

jmm

LaEscopeta
May 19, 2006, 12:36 PM
I was also considering an AR-180b but they are hard to find for the price I am looking for.These guys seem to be selling AR-180Bs for $599:

http://www.quanticoarms.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=645&type=M&CMN=ArmaLite&CMNum=19&CMSNum=83&CMSN=AR180%20Rifles%20&%20Acc

Add $50 for shipping and FFL fee, and I think you are at your target price.

Puppy
May 19, 2006, 12:55 PM
The only problem I have had with my RRA AR-15A2 20" standard service rifle was after shooting 400 rds or so in the rain one afternoon.

The problem was after I got home, not while at the range.

Basically the filth/sludge that had accumulated in the rotating bolt lugs acted sort of like a cement when it dried and I had a bit of difficulty in dislodging it when I went to clean the rifle later that evening (I had to strike the butt of the rifle against the floor while pulling down forcefully on the charging handle to free it).

Aside from that one incident my AR has been trouble free.

Anyway, I own a variety of milsurp rifles that would be well suited for SHTF scenarios, including the ever popular SHTF choices like SKS's & AK47's, but I'll be reaching into my safe for my AR when/if I ever need to defend the homestead from hordes of flesh eating zombies. :D

Bill T
May 19, 2006, 01:45 PM
Basically the filth/sludge that had accumulated in the rotating bolt lugs acted sort of like a cement when it dried and I had a bit of difficulty in dislodging it when I went to clean the rifle later that evening (I had to strike the butt of the rifle against the floor while pulling down forcefully on the charging handle to free it).

If that condition ever presents itself again place some Kroil down the muzzle and allow it to run down the bore into the action by standing the gun upright against something. After a couple of hours that treatment will loosen most anything up without getting forceful. Bill T.

Foxtrot427
May 19, 2006, 01:45 PM
Ok well Id say its down between the AR-180b and an Ar-15. And luckily Quantico Arms is only a couple mins from my house!

Puppy
May 19, 2006, 02:04 PM
Bill,

Solid advice, I almost shot some brake cleaner on it to loosen it up a bit, but I kinda wanted to see if I could free the action like I would have too "in the field" so to speak.

Foxtrot427
May 20, 2006, 11:05 AM
interesting. So I guess Ill just have to bring some brake cleaner on a SHTF situation. Im just worried about all of the small parts.

Any military guys lose a part while field stripping it?

Art Eatman
May 20, 2006, 12:09 PM
I've messed around with several each of Mini-14s and ARs. The AR is probably more of an all-'round critter. My only objection is aesthetics, but that's just personal opinion. I've never had reliability problems with either, over the last 25 or 30 years.

As far as ammo, I personally would focus on clean-burning stuff more than on any rock-bottom prices. Lots of reasonably priced ammo around.

Art

Foxtrot427
May 20, 2006, 12:59 PM
Okay then! I usually get pretty good ammo. Of course I have been known to buy a box or two of wolf.

If you enjoyed reading about "American semi-auto .223s" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!