Wikipedia on the Mini 14


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TrafficMan
May 19, 2006, 01:54 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

Read and Discuss.

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MTMilitiaman
May 19, 2006, 03:16 AM
Both my dad's Mini-14 and my uncle's Ranch Rifle can only dream of being 2 MOA rifles, which my Yugo SKS accomplishes. So I hereby renounce their claim that the SKS is not as accurate as the Mini-14. My SKS costs 1/3 of what a Ruger runs these days with twice the standard magazine capacity, more power, slightly cheaper ammo, and better accuracy. It has a bayonet, has been proven durable and reliable in combat, and as an added bonus, doesn't have the billboard warning label on it that most Ruger products have. Plus I can completely avoid the politics of the late Bill Ruger and not even touch that whole argument.

grimjaw
May 19, 2006, 12:02 PM
I don't have personal experience with the Mini-14 so I can't comment on that, but I have six SKSs. I'll go by what I've read.

- The worst of my SKSs maintain the same accuracy no matter what the barrel temperature. If it's 4 MOA cold, it's 4 MOA hot enough to smoke the handguard.
- While obsolete compared to modern designs, the SKS was a proven battle rifle.

jmm

benEzra
May 19, 2006, 12:45 PM
Good article, but the following statement makes no sense:

In 1993, the wooden stock of the Mini-14 was replaced with a choate black fibreglass stock complete with pistol grip.

Either they are talking about Bermuda Regiment guns, or they are completely mistaken, because the standard mini-14 has never been sold with a protruding handgrip stock. I think it's the former, because the photo of the Bermuda Regiment soldiers shows stainless mini's in what are almost certainly Choate "E2" Zytel stocks.

Greg Bell
May 19, 2006, 12:55 PM
That article reminded me all over again why I won't buy Ruger products.

Carl N. Brown
May 19, 2006, 01:00 PM
We have shot both my cousin's Mini-14 and my son's Yugo SKS.
They are about equal in our hands, but then the Yugo is a head
above the rest of the SKS class. I expect the Mini14 to be more
accurate first few from a cold barrel than the typical SKS, but
not in a fire fight. It is a ranch rifle.

That Mini14 had very "positive" extraction and ejection!!

In 1993, the wooden stock of the Mini-14 was replaced ...
Sounds like someone with specific experience making a generalization.
This is the kind of thing that ventually gets edited at Wikipedia.

If you realize Wikipedia is a rough draft people's encyclopedia,
it is a useful source to start from, but not to cite as an authority.
On the other hand, compare the info on the Norwegian Maelstrom
in Wikipedia to the usual balderdash based on Poe's or Verne's
fiction. Wikipedia is as accurate as its contributers, and some
are experts and some are idiots like us.;)

MD_Willington
May 19, 2006, 01:39 PM
Well I better get my butt into my truck and buy one at Walmart because...


it does not have the menacing appearance that is associated with the AK-47 and M16.


Or for the simple fact that an actual AK-47 or actual M-16 is a no-go for me in WA state...

:rolleyes:

BTW... my truck could be considered "functionally equivalent" to all rifles mentioned in the article due to the fact that I can repeatedly damage or destroy (insert noun here), multiple times and for a duration that does not require "reloading" for 550KM... You could even consider the stick shift to be a "protruding pistol type" grip...

Master Blaster
May 19, 2006, 02:55 PM
Plus I can completely avoid the politics of the late Bill Ruger and not even touch that whole argument.

Yeah you are right its much better to support the freedom and rights loving Chinese, or the Yugoslovians paragons of religous tolerence and freedom, than the EVIL BILL RUGER enemy of truth Justice and the American way.:confused:

I usually pick my firearms based on accuracy and relaibility which is why I dont own a Mini-14 or an SKS:rolleyes:

Greg Bell
May 19, 2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah you are right its much better to support the freedom and rights loving Chinese, or the Yugoslovians paragons of religous tolerence and freedom, than the EVIL BILL RUGER enemy of truth Justice and the American way.

Well, I really don't give a hoot what the Chinese or Yugoslavians think about American gun laws. Of course, the Chinese and Yugoslavians aren't the ones trying to limit our gun rights or refusing to sell us perfectly legal accessories. Ruger, on the other hand, is an American company that makes its living off the American consumer. A consumer whose rights that company does not respect and actively works to undermine.

GHB

MechAg94
May 19, 2006, 03:21 PM
My Dad's old mini-14 is just as accurate as my SKS. I haven't bought one due to magazine availability. I would rather get an SU-16 that can use my AR mags.

If the SKS was manufactured today, it would be more expensive than a Mini14. Comparing surplus guns to new is always apples to oranges. I would prefer a good surplus gun over a new one, but not everyone would.

How does an SKS with only a 10 round mag have twice the standard capacity of a mini-14 that takes 10 and 20 round mags? Do you consider a 5 round mag as standard? My M1A came with a 5 round mag, but I don't consider that to be standard capacity.

Master Blaster
May 19, 2006, 03:29 PM
Well, I really don't give a hoot what the Chinese or Yugoslavians think about American gun laws. Of course, the Chinese and Yugoslavians aren't the ones trying to limit our gun rights or refusing to sell us perfectly legal accessories. Ruger, on the other hand, is an American company that makes its living off the American consumer. A consumer whose rights that company does not respect and actively works to undermine

Well I really try to never give money to folks who want to destroy me and my way of life to help them build their military. You know the Chi coms are great guys, forced abortions, no freedom of speach, religion etc. The Serbians are famous for their religous tolerance, and no doubt support you right to die a painful death if you dont agree with their religous views as they demonstrated in Bosnia a few years ago. I'm sure the the Communist Chinese and the Serbians are big supporters of the NRA and all the freedoms we hold dear. But hey your money your choice.

As far as Ruger not supporting the RKBA, and his supposed magazine limit suggestion being worse than the what the Chinese and Yugos/Serbs do on a daily basis to their citizens... that statement is so patently ridiculous.........

:)

Greg Bell
May 19, 2006, 03:57 PM
As far as Ruger not supporting the RKBA, and his supposed magazine limit suggestion being worse than the what the Chinese and Yugos/Serbs do on a daily basis to their citizens... that statement is so patently ridiculous

Wow, you really pounded that straw-man into the ground. Good job.:rolleyes:

MTMilitiaman
May 19, 2006, 04:03 PM
Because the M-14 was originally adopted with 20 round magazines, that is the standard capacity. You have to look pretty hard to find anything but 20 round M14 mags.
The Mini-14 on the other hand has always come standard with a 5 round magazine. Courtesy of Ruger's politics, the larger capacity mags were always viewed as aftermarket or law enforcement items.
When you look at the pics on the manufacture websites, it shows the Mini-14 with a 5 round magazine. Fulton and Springfield Armory both show their rifles with 20 round magazines. Thats how I determine standard capacity.
Since 5x2=10, and the SKS has a standard 10 round magazine, with capacities of up to 50 rounds being optional, I consider the SKS to have twice the standard capacity of the Mini-14.

Drakejake
May 19, 2006, 04:39 PM
After the demise of the AWB, the world of hi-cap Mini 14 mags expanded considerably. You can now get factory 20 rounders for about $30-35 and good, cheap after market mags that can hold 20-30-40 rounds. I just got a DPMS Panther Lite rifle that weighs 5.7 pounds empty. The barrel is 16 inches versus the Mini's 18 or so and noticeably thicker. IMO Ruger could have and should have made the Mini barrel shorter and thicker thus eliminating all the carping about Mini accuracy. (There are easy steps which make the Mini much more accurate.) So I think the Mini was a flawed design from the beginning, reflecting Bill Ruger's personal biases. But the Mini has had very wide appeal and continues to sell well, so there must be something good about it.

Drakejake

MechAg94
May 19, 2006, 05:17 PM
Fair enough MT. I always shot my Dad's Mini with 20 round mags. I have never seen a 5 or 10 round with it. I think he bought it in the 70's or early 80's so that was before a lot of the capacity limits came about. I guess I still see it as a 20 round mag capacity.

During the AWB, the M1A's pictured on Springfield's website had 5 or 10 round mags. I believe they included a 5 and 20 round mag with the rifle though. Depends on how you look at it I guess.

As I said above, I would likely buy an SU-16 first simply due to to cap mag availability. The SU-16 I saw recently felt pretty solid also.

Bigfoot
May 19, 2006, 07:56 PM
Read and Discuss.
:confused:

Original poster, is there something specific that you wanted to know about the Mini-14 or did you just realise that we didnt have a current Mini thread going?


Most Mini threads remind me of the City Council scene in Blazing Saddles. "Hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph. Hey fella I didn't get a hrumph outa you."

Stiletto Null
May 19, 2006, 08:39 PM
Side note, Yugoslavia no longer exists, and the ethnic cleansing and misc. atrocities didn't happen until the country starting falling apart (late '80s).

Yugoslavia was in fact a neutral country in the Cold War, with vaguely Swiss defensive philosophies: the SKS really was a people's rifle, based on the idea that due to its small size, Yugoslavia would have to rely on popular resistance to invasion rather than its small(ish) standing military.

Also, Yugo 59/66s available in the US are milsurps, not made-for-export pieces.

beerslurpy
May 19, 2006, 09:22 PM
Despite apparent Chinese loathing of civilian gun ownership, they have sold millions of guns to American civilians over the years. Maybe they thought they were setting up a rebellion, who knows- but they single handedly lowered the cost of an enormous array of guns and helped many americans get into the shooting sports with affordable shotguns, SKSs and AKs. Regardless of intent, they did a good thing for american gun ownership and certainly never lobbied for more gun control in this country.

Bill Ruger is an American and he should know better. He has not only successfully pushed for gun control in this country, but he has refused to sell to american civilians and has generally damaged the cause of gun ownership in this country.

Give me a bunch of disinterested Chinese arms merchants over an active nanny-stater like Bill Ruger any day of the week.

220_Swift
May 19, 2006, 10:01 PM
Most Mini threads remind me of the City Council scene in Blazing Saddles. "Hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph, hrumph. Hey fella I didn't get a hrumph outa you."


Not to be a stickler.....But, that was not at the city council meeting. It happened in the Govenor's (William J. LePetomaine) office. Man I love that movie.:D

colt.45
May 19, 2006, 10:41 PM
this arguement comes up verry often and it is starting to make me mad.

i wont go so far as to say that the sks is junk. but it is certainly not as well made as the mini-14. it rattles when you shake it, it is made from the lowest quality materials avalible for gun manufacturing, it does and always will hold only 10 rounds. its just not as well made as an american gun. and do you really want to support former comunist countries?

while the mini-14 has some minor problems to fix like its barrel. it is still a good solid gun that works when you need it to.

you guys talk about the sks like it is better than an ar-15 sometimes:neener:

Art Eatman
May 20, 2006, 01:21 AM
And the last I heard, Bill Ruger is STILL dead.

Art

hillbilly
May 20, 2006, 01:24 AM
I won't waste my time reading anything on Wikipedia.

hillbilly

Logan5
May 20, 2006, 01:28 AM
Bill Ruger is an American and he should know better. He has not only successfully pushed for gun control in this country, but he has refused to sell to american civilians and has generally damaged the cause of gun ownership in this country.

Bill Ruger is dead, and Bill Ruger Jr. is retired.

meef
May 20, 2006, 01:42 AM
We have shot both my cousin's Mini-14 and my son's Yugo SKS.
They are about equal in our hands, but then the Yugo is a head
above the rest of the SKS class.
Well.... no.

I have a Norinco Cowboy Companion, and I guarantee you that the Yugo is in no way a head above it.

I suppose it's all personal preference and subjective - but my rifle has never malfunctioned, is remarkably accurate (even with me shooting it), weighs less than the Yugo, cleans easily (due to the chrome bore), doesn't have a bunch of unnecessary extra crap attached to it and is a firearm I'll never get rid of.

I'm at a loss as to where the Yugo outshines it.

:scrutiny:

meef
May 20, 2006, 01:43 AM
And the last I heard, Bill Ruger is STILL dead.

Art
Hopefully, that's not going to change anytime in the near future.

:)

Specialized
May 20, 2006, 02:11 AM
As an aside to the original intent of this thread :) , you can bring a Mini-14's groups down to 1 MOA (from 2.5 or so) with a Hogue Overmolded stock and a Mini-Scout Mount. The additional barrel support seems to work wonders. Just FYI.

DBR
May 20, 2006, 02:28 AM
Notwithstanding the general resentment regarding Bill Ruger's statements about mag capacity he prevented a "by model" or by "general characteristic" prohibition of semiauto firearms. Sometimes you cannot get it all. I do not like what he did in principle but just maybe he headed off a much worse out come by changing the focus.

Greg Bell
May 20, 2006, 02:32 AM
Yeah, thanks but no thanks. I hope he is in heaven, but I hope they make him clean toilets for a few years.

TrafficMan
May 20, 2006, 01:00 PM
Original poster, is there something specific that you wanted to know about the Mini-14 or did you just realise that we didnt have a current Mini thread going?

Apparently you didn't click the Wikipedia link, because I posted this to point out an obvious bias concerning the Wikipedia article. <Insult removed by Art>

Bigfoot
May 20, 2006, 04:32 PM
Yup, that's what I thought.

:cuss: This little smilie is all the feeding that I'm going to do.



Good catch jrdean, it was Gov William J. LePetomaine. 'We've got to protect our phony balony jobs' :D

TimboKhan
May 21, 2006, 07:02 PM
it rattles when you shake it, it is made from the lowest quality materials avalible for gun manufacturing, it does and always will hold only 10 rounds

hmm.... with the exception of the 10 round magazine, sounds just like a 1911.

deus_sol_invictus
May 21, 2006, 07:09 PM
For one thing, there are very few neutral opinions of the late Bill Ruger's attempt to enter the military/police rifle market; people seem to love them or hate them. To me, it's telling that a substantial cottage industry has been thriving for years trying to make the little carbine more accurate. In my view, for the $400-500 or so they average out of the box, I could either do better with a bolt action, a cheaper surplus (Yugo SKS being a prime example), or hold my $$ back until I can afford an AR-15 variant. I owned a Mini-14 and was completely unimpressed with the rifle's accuracy, the lack of reliable magazines, and the fact that all aftermarket repairs must go through Ruger. Consider the fact that you can order a wide range of aftermarket parts to repair or improve an AR or an SKS while Ruger wants to keep you dependent upon their factory. Those factors turned me away from the Mini.

Carl N. Brown
May 22, 2006, 11:34 AM
Yeah you are right its much better to support the freedom and rights
loving Chinese, or the Yugoslovians paragons of religous tolerence and
freedom, than the EVIL BILL RUGER enemy of truth Justice and the American way.
Although I was disappointed with some of Bill Ruger's positions, that is
the best answer to Bill-Bashing I have seen thus far.

Ruger bashing is self destructive.
Yeah, let's help shut down the Ruger plant by boycotting Ruger,
so when Chinese and East Bloc mil-surp imports run dry,
we'll be up the creek in a leaky canoe and no paddle.

Back to thread: walking the trail at my uncle's, I would
prefer to carry my cousin's Mini-14; burning a bag of ammo
at a box of clay pigeons on the meadow, I would rather
use my son's Yugo SKS. All gun designs are a trade-off
in features, and one size misfits all.

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