Quality Security Cabinet for Handguns?

[WebHobbit]

I currently keep all three of my revolvers (2 loaded for SD/HD) in one of those 50 dollar Walmart Homak 3 shelf sheet metal "security cabinets". I have it bolted in a closet on a shelf.

I know it would only take a determined thief about 3-5 minutes (and a LOT of noise) with a heavy screw-driver and possibly a hammer to get it open.

But I really only got it for child-proofing mainly. And I can get into it with the key in a reasonably short amount of time.

What I'm wondering is if someone makes a really good quality security cabinet about this same size (18x20 inches and 8 inches deep) that is "screw-driver/crow-bar proof"?

So far all I've seen that is "screw-driver/crow-bar proof" is also fairly large, obviously built for long-guns and would probably require me to reinforce this old house's floors! Not really what I want/need.

I doubt I will ever own a long gun and probably will never have more than 4 or 5 handguns. So this size is perfect.

Suggestions please?

[WebHobbit]

OK! One man thread!

It seems the answer is NO.

I have searched ALL over the 'Net (that's right I searched ALL the web-sites there are! :) )& there seems to be no dedicated handgun safes as I'm wanting.

All I'm seeing for handguns is small one or two gun types.

:(

[Doc]

naw, you are not alone, it just takes time to catch up.

I personally prefer the 'Mag-Safe'
(the black one with the four electronic keypad) I bought 2 at Cabela's last year on sale.

[WebHobbit]

How many guns will it hold? I can't seem to find it on their site.

[CB900F]

Fellas;

IMHO, the gun vault/mag safe type isn't really any more resistant to the hammer/screwdriver/pinchbar attack than what Webhobbit's got now.

As a suggestion, look at some of the small fireproof (not quite) safes that are out there like the USCAN. They have two smaller models that retail for under $300.00 & provide 1 hour thermal protection to 1800f. The USCAN's also come with a base unit that can be screwed to the house & then the (not quite) safe clips into the base. Makes it hard to carry off. They are in the 1.5 cu ft size range & would do nicely I'd think for the application you are outlining.

The reason for the (not quite) is that I'm a purist. The USCANS's don't meet the tool attack standards to rate the designation 'safe'. But then, neither do the Browning, Cannon, or Liberty RSC's that are sold as 'safes'. They are, however, better than the metal security boxes & the gunvault in that respect, and they really are pretty decent fire protection. 900F

[glocksman]

IIRC, fire safes aren't good for guns because they release moisture into the air. That's what helps keep the documents inside from bursting into flames from the superheated air when the safe is in a fire.

[Doc]

WH:

Sorry, got the name wrong. Gun Vault by Gun Guard. The larger is 14" x 10" x 8" Is is plenty big for several (3-4) handguns. The smaller one in my car easily holds a full size glock and 1911.

I think a true safe is a little slow to access...but you havce to balance access against security.

[WebHobbit]

IIRC, fire safes aren't good for guns because they release moisture into the air. That's what helps keep the documents inside from bursting into flames from the superheated air when the safe is in a fire.

Yes, I've heard horror stories of those "rust boxes" as well. I wonder what Browning and Liberty & Misty Morn do to prevent rust in there safes because I'm pretty sure all those list fire-protection too.

:confused:

Truthfully I'm not the slightest bit concerned with fire-protection in this scenario anyway. I just want it screw-driver/crow-bar proof.

[WebHobbit]

The biggest Gun Vault looks OK but just not big enough! I wish they made one taller with more shelves.

:(

http://www.gunvault.com/multideluxe.asp

[Airwolf]

I've got the big Gun-Vault and it will hold 4 or more handguns *if* you store them upright and side-by-side.

At one point we had a Para 14.45, CZ-97, USP45, SA XD-9 and I think a Walther P-22 as well. I used thin cardboard on the sides to cover the shelf rails and leave the max space available. Granted, it's not perfect because the guns do touch each other and you have to be careful inserting and removing them because of the chance of scratching, but we managed to never damage any of ours.

When we went beyond 6 handguns that ended that. We ended up with a Sentry 14 gun safe and the Gun-Vault will eventually be mounted in the bedroom for the "go-to" guns.

Oh, as for the "all I'm ever going to have is x guns so I don't need anything bigger" I’d put that type of statement in the category of “famous last words.” :D EVERY bit of advice I’ve read about getting gun storage has involved this pearl of wisdom: “Get more than you think you’ll need because you WILL fill it.” How very, very true. Gunsafes are like any storage device. The amount of :cuss: you have will grow to the capacity you have available.. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s a gun safe, closet, garage or hard drive.

We've already got the top shelf of the Sentry nearly full and there are 2 more handguns on the way that I have to make room for. Oh well, better get off my duff and get the Gun-Vault mounted in the bedroom.

[WebHobbit]

One thing I've considered is simply buying the standard "tall type" Liberty/Browning/Misty Morn etc. & then constructing my own partitions/shelves to fill the long gun section of the safe.

This would probably be fairly simple to build. But that still leaves two issues:

1) Weight. These things weigh several hundred pounds and I don't wanna put it in the basement. My house is about 55 years old. I'm not sure what would be a safe load for these floors?

2) Shape - is all wrong. I'm not sure where I could put a tall safe.

:(

edit: typos

[JohnBT]

www.libertysafe.com/Safe_personal.lasso

How about a Liberty Residential 4 (almost) safe?
24" high x 18" wide x 16" deep. With the basic granite paint job it would have been $499 at the last gun show. Not exactly what you're looking for, but it would fit on a closet floor and weighs 155 pounds (a lot less than I do.)

John

(Edited to correct the weight.)

[ajacobs]

You have a fairly small collection. I agree with others that you may end up wanting a gun safe eventlually and that is the best solution. I have one but I also use a sentry safe that is not fireproof. It is extreemly heavy duty small and weight around 80 pounds. Just the size for about 4 handguns. It has a shelf in it and I bought it at staples on sale for 100 bucks. I through a couple of 2 dollar mouse pads in there to prevent scratches and bolted it in. It has a glow in the dark (not lighted) key pad as well as a key lock. You have to use both to open it and there is a back up way to get in with 2 seperate keys. You can reset the combo and It has a hidden hinge. You can also have multi combo's and temporary combos. None of those features I use. As I mentioned it requires both the key and the combo to open. What I do is keep the safe key either in the car on on one of those break apart key chains w/ my regular keys when I go out. When I come home I bring it in out of the car or take it off the key chain and stick it in the lock. The safe can still not be opened without the combo being pressed. This is good for kids as you don't have to mess around with finding the key but they still can't get in. I am sure this is a safe designed for retail establishment and I don't believe it could be pried open. All though I am sure everything can be.

[WebHobbit]

That small Liberty looks good.

I think I'm gonna go check out Misty Morn tomorrow. They have a store here in town (Evansville, IN).

http://mistymorn.com

Anyone familiar with them?

The smallest one listed on the site is like 440 lbs or so.

My house was built in 1949. It has a basement but I want the safe in our bedroom not downstairs. The floor joists are 14 inches apart and appear to be 2x8's (I just measured --about 7&1/2 to be exact). The house is pretty small (750 square feet or so) & we have a metal support beam in the basement that runs across the center of the house. Where I'm gonna put the safe is probably just off to one side of this beam. We don't have any structural problems that I'm aware of. You all think a 400-500 pound safe would be OK here?

BTW, are these gun safes prone to humidity/rust problems like regular safes are or do they have some sort of "fix"? Will I need some major dessicant or what?

[WebHobbit]

Check out the inside of the safe on this page:

http://sarina.koury.com/gunsafe.htm

Was this a "factory option" or did someone alter it for handguns only?

This would be ideal for me only I want one want not quite as wide.

[ajacobs]

that is a factory option. Designed for people who primarily just have valuables not guns.

[WebHobbit]

Well a pistol is a gun but OK.

;)

[ajacobs]

I agree that it would work fine for handguns. It is just a way of arranging the shelves though. You don't even have to pay extra to arange it that way. You can pull out the shelves and put in rifle rests. The design is there primarily as part of their home safe series for people who want to lock up things like jewelry and silver, antiques, coins etc. All cannons come with this option.

[laynlow]

I have this one:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/safes/detail.asp?value=008F&cat_id=160&type_id=751

It will hold plenty of pistols, plus misc important documents, jewelry, and other valuables. It is very well constructed, fire rated at 1200 degrees for 30 min, and UL tool attack rated.

I paid a bit over 500 for the hunter green metallic, but the plain black can be had for under 500.

[WebHobbit]

laynlow-- what do you do about the humidity in that safe? Any problems?

[CB900F]

Webhobbit & all;

The reason I specifically mentioned the USCAN fire safe is because the insulation is sealed from the safe's interior. The releases moisture business amuses me. Check the insulating material in any safe you are considering buying. There is a very high probability that is is going to be gypsum wall board, ie. sheet rock. Some companies take the paper off it & then call it fire rock. Almost all gun safes use sheet rock as the insulator. And it does indeed absorb moisture out of the air. And no, most of the widely known gun safes like Liberty, Browning, Cannon, Fort Knox etc, etc, don't seal the interior of the safe from the insulation. Therefore it is an extremely good idea to have either dessicant packs or a golden rod type de-humidifier in the safe.

As for the idea that the safe actively releases moisture into the interior as a preventative device - that's a crock. And fella's this IS my business. 900F

[JohnBT]

I'm no sheetrock expert, and I sure don't know what kind of sheetrock goes in safes, but a buddy of mine used to do commercial sheetrock for a living and I've listened to him preach for hours on end about the gospel of sheetrock as an art form. Yeah, he had a 4-year art degree and now does custom woodworking and such.
______________

I did a little search and came up with these definitions:

www.ou.edu/architecture/dcns/csidivisions/div5/wallbasics/web/gyptype.htm#top

REGULAR GYPSUM WALLBOARD
A Regular Gypsum Wallboard is a gypsum core panel that is fire resistant and surfaced with paper on front/back and long edges and complies with ASTM C 36.


FIRE-PROOF GYPSUM WALLBOARD
A Fire-proof Wallboard is a gypsum core wall panel with additives to enhance fire resistance of the core and surfaced with paper on front/back and long edges and complies with ASTM C 36, Type X.

Fire-proof wallboard is made with cores formulated to offer greater fire resistance than regular wallboard. These fire resistant wallboards are used to prevent rapid heat transfer to structural members, protecting them for specified lengths of time. They are designated as "type X" products.

The gypsum core of fire-proof wallboard works as a natural "sprinkler system". Gypsum contains about 21 percent water. When the board is heated, the water in the core begins to evaporate and is released as steam, retarding heat transfer.
_________

Like I said, I only know what I've been told, although I'm pretty good at bending sheetrock around sweeping turns(involves a water sprayer and lots of time), gluing it up in layers so there're no nailheads to ever pop out, and taping & finishing. I'm slow, but can do a little plastering too...otherwise I'm an office-type these days.

I didn't take a real close look at the rock in my big Liberty when I bolted it to the concrete floor - not that I can tell the difference without seeing which paper is on it.

I have a cool, damp, damp, damp unfinished basement in an 87-y-o house and run two GoldenRods in my safe. Later in the summer I'll be running a large dehumidifier and pulling 3 or 4 gallons a day out of the air once or twice a week. The GoldenRods keep the temp at 69*F to 71*F and the humidity at 40% give or take digit. Using 2 might be overkill, but the sheetrock is the least of my worries.

John

[laynlow]

what do you do about the humidity in that safe? Any problems?

I use one of these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/623716

It absorbs any moisture, and when the indicator on top turns pink you bake it in an oven to re-charge. My safe also has a hole ready made for an outlet kit. Using an outlet, I could put a goldenrod inside if desired. I have not had a need for that though.

The moisture problem from some safes is created when the safe manufacture uses concrete as the fire insulation. The water in the concrete is what keeps things cool in a fire. Over time though, the concrete releases moisture and this is why you want to avoid those safes. Safes of this variety are normally your small office type. Any safe made to hold firearms would use wallboard insulation and most have an expanding seal for the door.

[txgolfer45]

I have an Amsec gun safe. It is smaller than most and fits in a closet. It is the Teton 5924 with fire resistant liner. I bought it from www.supersafes.com

Amsec makes smaller models that look more like end tables too.

Scott

[CB900F]

Hoo Boy.

Speaking of AMSEC. In their high end gun safes, they make a pretty good product. So does Brown. Funny thing, those are concrete insulated safes. None of the good ones allow the insulating medium to be able to exgas to the interior of the safe. Usually the concrete types are poured in place & sealed after curing. The wall between the concrete & the interior is usually sheet steel. The same thing that's used for the exterior wall of Liberty, Cannon, Browning, etc.

Please don't somebody come up with; 'Wull, that there water in the concrete's a-gunna turn to steam & blow up the safe'. Not in the good ones made by reputable companies. Maybe so in Cletus Fleeb's whiz-bang wonder box. You know, the one where they cured the concrete for almost one whole shift before they welded the can shut. But most concrete type makers that I know of are doing it that way because they are concerned with the quality of the product first. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that you are going to find a Cletus Fleeb type making a concrete lined safe.
But I ain't seen 'em all. 900F

[WebHobbit]

Well I went out today and bought me a "safe"....well maybe it aint a safe by many of you all's definition but it's gotta be waaaaay closer to a real safe than my old Homack cabinet:

http://www.sentrysafe.com/Catalog_PDFs/V530.PDF

I got a Sentry V530.

It was $129.99 at a local Staples.

It's 1.3 cubic foot. It weighs 55 pounds empty (which must be about 4 times what my Homak weighed). :D

I think I have a mail-in rebate for 30 bucks which will bring the price down to just a little more than double what I paid for my Walmart-Homak.

:)

It has two actual locking bolts as opposed to the stupid flimsy plate thing my old box had. Tolerances are quite a bit tighter than my sheet steel cabinet too. I seriously doubt someone could get this open with a crow-bar much less a screw-driver. Certainly the lock could probably be drilled out but I think it is pretty "pry-proof".

It comforably holds 4- 5 handguns plus a little ammo. My wife did concede that I may have to add a second one "later on". She figured I could just stack it on top. :)

I just finished bolting it into the closet shelf a while ago. I'm gonna leave the combo "keyed up" so I all I have to do is insert the key to open the safe while I'm at home then I'll spin the dial before I leave the house. That way I can get to my HD gun fairly quick. Later I may supplement this arrangement with one of those Gun Vault safes for my primary House Gun.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that it's NOT fire-resisitant at all so I don't have to worry about the whole humidity/rust thing. Although I will be putting my Midway Gel Pack in it that I been using in my Homack just as soon as it gets out of the oven.

[JohnBT]

Congratulations.

"My wife did concede that I may have to add a second one "later on"."

We told you so :)

John