Mosin - Nagant conversions


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KINGMAX
May 19, 2006, 09:35 PM
:confused: I have some ?? about converting a Mosin - Nagant to something sporty. (1) ?? The black monte-carlo stocks - do they only fit the M38 & M44 models, or can I use a full size 91/30 ?? (2) ?? How difficult is mounting a modern day scope on a Mosen - Nagant? (3) ?? Where can I get a bent bolt at a reasonable $$ price? (4) ?? Can I get a Monte-Carlo stock in a nice solid wood? :scrutiny: (5) Can someone give me some good advice, or post some pictures to give me some good solid ideas? Thanks - KINGMAX :D

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R.W.Dale
May 19, 2006, 09:43 PM
For the money you'ed spend It would almost be cheaper to buy a Used savage 110 or a new stevens bolt gun... Or you can shop around and find a Moisin that sombody has already "Gotten to" they usually sell for cheap after they've already been butchered.

The laws of economics are bretty well stacked against sporterizations now days Heck a new Stevens 30-06 can be had for less than $250


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/MAS36/Tworifles.jpg

grimjaw
May 19, 2006, 11:08 PM
Makarov.com still had some unfinished Monte Carlo wooden stocks when I last checked. I'd rather have one of those than the synthetic. I don't know if it will fit both types. Can't comment on scope or bolt; not an interest of mine.

jmm

White Horseradish
May 20, 2006, 01:26 AM
Polymer stocks are supposed to fit all Mosins except for Finnish ones. In reality, they often don't fit at all and need a bunch of work.

Mounting a scope is easiest done with a scout mount that replaces the rear sight leaf. That requires a long eye relief scope.

Mounting a standard scope is a giant pain in the gluteus maximus. Either you fabricate a mount(pricey without a machine shop in your basement), or you buy a reproduction sniper mount (pricey, plus installation requires pretty serious gunsmithing). Both ways destroy any collector value the rifle may have - forget about reselling it.

There is also a mount made by ATI. It is screwed to the top of the receiver. Once again, drilling for it destroys value, plus it's a long cantilever and therefore may not be all that solid.

A wood sporter stock will cost around $100, if you can find it. Bent bolts cost around $50, you buy them on eBay. They are not necessary if you use a scout scope.

Langenator
May 20, 2006, 02:08 AM
Boyd's has a nice looking one here (http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BrowseEbus/Riamosinnagant.asp). (pic (http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Images/Parts/300-158.jpg)). Does look like you might have to DIY the finish, though.

TimboKhan
May 20, 2006, 05:19 AM
I don't wish to sound like I can't appreciate the point, but is resale value really a concern for a rifle that costs around 100 bucks or so? Don't take that the wrong way, White Horseradish: the point you make is absolutly correct, but its not like he is talking about sporterizing a Garand or something. That being said, I think the biggest thing to realize is that the first reply from Krochus was the best: Serious, non-craptacular sporterization will cost you more in the long run than a good used rifle will. As is, I firmly believe the Mosin is more than acceptable as a hunting arm (In fact, I have recommended it to people wanting a "big game" rifle that couldn't afford a "better" rifle, and would do so again without hesitation), but if you absolutly have to sporterize it, save yourself some time and aggravation and just watch the used market for a commercial rifle suitable to your needs.

KINGMAX
May 20, 2006, 09:27 AM
Thanks for the intrest and time spent on responding. I get the idea that just spenting the $$$ on something off the rack may be a better approach. This way I can just add another unit to my collection w/out destroying something. I know little about converting stuff. I have added a scope to some of my stuff all straight forward w/out any gunsmithing or problems. I love to collect military type stuff. I would like to add someting in NATO .308 next. Any ideas?? :D

White Horseradish
May 20, 2006, 10:09 AM
TimboKhan, I went on the assumption that someone looking to do a bunch of rebilding is working on a limited budget. Limited budgets have a way of becoming nonexistent budgets and resale values of things become important. Also, I have seen more than a couple of people trying to sell their creations being extremely frustrated because nobody wants them due to being altered.

Kingmax, I've said this so often that I am starting to think I wanna buy one myself. Stevens 200 is a bolt-action sporting rifle that costs around $270 brand new. It is made by Savage, it is essentially a Savage 110 without Accutrigger and a plain stock. It comes in variety of calibers, including .308. You can use Savage 110 accessories and parts on it, so you can gradually build it into a better rifle. No scope mounting worries - it comes drilled and tapped for standard mounts.

Koobuh
May 21, 2006, 06:54 AM
Sporterizing a mosin is easily done, but really it's usually not worth the effort.

That said, today I tried out the M91 / M91/30 scout scope mount from Makarov.com, and it works beautifully. Best $40 I ever spent.
I'll finally find out how well my poor, poor 1917 Remington M91 is capable of shooting. It was sporterized sometime between WWI and WWII by the look of it, and the rear sight was discarded. Totally matching parts, what once must have been a beautiful walnut stock... hacked to a sort of hunting rifle thing.

Don't do anything to a milsurp that can't be undone, please... :o

frosty
May 21, 2006, 08:11 AM
I have heard that these rifles are good quality, and that they shoot well. Is it the truth? I see them at the gun shows for a hundred bucks...:evil:

cracked butt
May 21, 2006, 08:26 AM
I have heard that these rifles are good quality, and that they shoot well. Is it the truth? I see them at the gun shows for a hundred bucks.
They are somewhat crudely made but functionable often shoot well but sometimes are complete shot out pieces of junk. For the same price you can get a much higher quality rifle that WILL shoot well everytime. Hint: it was made by the swiss and is called a K-31.:D

TimboKhan
May 21, 2006, 05:34 PM
Sometimes they are pretty shot out, but if you don't get in a big hurry, you can pretty easily find one that is capable of pretty good accuracy, certainly enough for hunting. Now, that said, there are TONS of milsurp rifles that will fulfill that claim, and the 03-A3 (among others) is capable of excellent accuracy. I happen to enjoy shooting my Mosin, and I have read stories of guys taking black bears with a bone stock Mosin, but that doesn't mean that is the only cheap mil-surp on the block. An SKS, fitted with the approriate sized clip, is perfectly suitable to take deer, and the K-31, along with most of the Swiss rifles imho, are excellent rifles. Milsurp is a funny little area to get into, really. Your dealing with a bunch of fairly ugly guns, most of which are basically outdated when compared to most any commercial sporting rifle, but by god are they addictive, and a load of fun. Plus, unlike other areas in shooting, a guy on a limited budget can put together a pretty good collection for a limited amount of coin. If you haven't heard of it or visited it, I reccommend taking a look at www.surplusrifle.com. Lots of information about most of the more popular milsurp rifles around, written mostly by a guy that seems to really love milsurps.

KINGMAX
June 3, 2006, 06:11 PM
I have kept my small collection of MOSIN-NAGANTS intact. :) I spent my money on a new Remington 700 ADL (in the .270 flavor), w/ a nice Laminated stock. :D Looks good, shoots great. :what: Thanks for the advice, it was well recieved. ;) I would like to add a scope to a Mosin, turn it into a 'sniper' looking piece. :neener: How about some guidence on obtaining a proper looking scope and mount for it. :scrutiny:


Thanks - and remember - Take a girl shooting - she will love you for it. ;)

Kymasabe
June 3, 2006, 09:04 PM
I have a bone stock Polish M44 that shoots great. I also have my M38 that I put in a Boyds walnut stock. I bought the stock used off eBay so someone else already did the finish and final inletting. Fits great and makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot.

I agree with a previous post...don't do anything to a mil-surp that you can't undo. I can pull two screws and have my M38 back in it's military stock in about 5 minutes.

Another alternative is check out SOG (southern Ohio gun), they have Mosin 91/30's for sale and they even list some with synthetic stocks already mounted for around $119. I got lucky, both of my Mosin carbines are very accurate, my M38 especially as it was re-arsenaled and recrowned. Was WW2 manufacture and machining was a little rough but I sanded the rough parts with 400 grit sandpaper, then polished with a Dremel and now my bolt is so smooooth, works great, and nice smooth, easy trigger.

sweetkicker
October 15, 2007, 02:16 AM
Be careful with the mosin as I recently found out that I might have a gem that I converted. Laugh out fricken loud. “This in no way is an insult to historians, or collectors.” I have an original ruski, and a re-arsenal with counter bore + the split stock with the seller trying to convince me it is normal. I have found that you should check the bore because you are buying cannon that you can fire from your shoulder. Don’t forget that some are counter bored for accuracy. I think this is because of a bad crown and not a bad gun. I had 1 with a good bore, bolt, and wood that I made into a camp rifle. I re-did the stock with a glass bed floating the barrel +glass in the cleaning rod hole +glass in the rear stock hole.
With the new/ old stock, and the heat bent bolt knob it looks great.

OPEN SIGHTS
I opted to keep open iron because they look cool, they are simple, and lets not forget the fact that it is a short to mid range carbine. No matter what people and the best smith’s in the world say they can do!!! The m 44 is a 1 to 300 meter spear with a long range bullet if you feel lucky.
If you choose to scope it on the rear sight post you are going to beat the hell out of that fancy Wal-Mart toy.
Don’t waste your time trying to make a re-arsenal mosin a “sniper”
Save your money and just watch enemy at the gate.

A sniper is a person. Not a rifle. A good one can do the job with anything.

Find a cheep m44 with a good bore and shoot the hell out of it. Open sights.

P.S. if you have money to throw away just get a brand spanking new remmy 700

mbharris@alaska.edu
April 5, 2010, 01:20 AM
Hi all,

I really want a Mosin-Nagant 1891, and was hoping one of you could help.

Here is why;
I teach Neurobiology in Alaska. A cool story I tell to keep my students awake is about the relationship of the MN 1891 to our understanding of vision.

The first major conflict in which the Russian infantry and sniper core started using the 1891 was the Russian Japanese war. The 1891 was the first rifle to fire a small caliber hardened projectile at a high velocity, and fire it at a soldier who did not wear head protection. Prior to this, a soft projectile traveling at a low velocity would cause an entrance head wound, but would not have the energy to exit the skull - the result was messy and fatal. The advent of the 1891, was that there were a great number of Japanese with through-and-through head wounds. Many of these men survived, but had peculiar problems with their vision because of their wounds. In investigating this, a very cleaver Japanese doctor basically discovered how the visual cortex worked. Unfortunately for us, he published his work, in German just before the first world war. The Germans lost, English became to language of science in the years following the war, and no one paid attention to this important work until it was translated ... about ten years ago!

I teach my class about the utility of studying wounded soldiers and how careful study in almost every major conflict since the gladiators has provided great insight to medical science.

To cap this off - I really want a prop - a Mosin-Nagant 1891. it doesn't need to be pretty, and it doesn't need to fire. I'd like it to be complete, and presentable. A sniper version would be cool, but anything will work. I do have a Czech' 1937, but an authentic 1891 would allow me to punctuate the story with "and here is the gun that made it all possible". It would be a great addition to my other current prop - a replica skull with the appropriate through-and-through (although made with my 22 as anything bigger would trash the plastic).

Keep in mind that this is Alaska, and most of my students really enjoy the military history and firearms technology aspect of this lecture. I'd love to be able to take it to the next level.

I've kept my eyes open at our local show, but we are obviously a little out of the way up here.

Surprisingly, I ran across one yesterday in an estate auction. Unfortunately, the auctioneer had everyone convinced that the 1891 for sale was actually made in 1891, and a whole bunch of people with more money than sense jumped in.

I've noticed a lot of discussion of vintage rifles on this forum, and hope that one of you may be able to help me out.

Thanks!

Mike Harris
mbharris@alaska.edu

paintballdude902
April 5, 2010, 01:42 AM
check gun broker . they will run a bit less than 400 normally. ive got a new england westinghouse than i love

NCsmitty
April 5, 2010, 09:24 AM
Welcome to THR, mbharris@alaska.edu.

Here's a good dealer that will be happy to send a Mosin to a FFL holder near you. Most FFL's charge a small fee for running the firearm through the books.
Mosin + shipping + FFL fee= history in your hands.

www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=12



NCsmitty

Shadow 7D
April 5, 2010, 04:37 PM
Call the Alaska collectors society, they might know were one is, and for a M91, not M91-30, you don't need a ffl as it is an ANTIQUE firearm, so you pay postage via USPS, no FFL needed.

Shadow 7D
April 5, 2010, 04:40 PM
and I hope you don't teach at UA, as per the Chancellors policy you cannot have firearms on campus, unless they have a special policy for profs, but the best answer I've heard, is nothing that is / resembles a Firearm, unless it's for the theater department.

ccsniper
April 5, 2010, 04:46 PM
kalinka optics has mounts specifically designed for mosins, though almost all are side mounts and you have to use scopes made for that mount but they will be very accurate and sturdy.

Coronach
April 5, 2010, 10:08 PM
I would absolutely check the school policy BEFORE taking the prop to class. ;) Alaska is a lot more sane about firearms than the lower 49, but I'd still make sure it was OK first.

Mike

ccsniper
April 6, 2010, 02:23 AM
They are somewhat crudely made but functionable often shoot well but sometimes are complete shot out pieces of junk. For the same price you can get a much higher quality rifle that WILL shoot well everytime. Hint: it was made by the swiss and is called a K-31.

You can't get a k-31 for a hundred bucks anymore, they sell for around 300 now.

Cosmoline
April 8, 2010, 02:36 AM
Interesting! I didn't know that.

I'm out of M91's at the moment otherwise I'd donate one for you. I'm in Anchorage. PM me and I can link you up to some of the Finnish M91's pretty quickly. Many are legal antiques and easier to ship. The Czarist era M91's are also around in fair numbers. The differences between them aren't too profound.

The 7.62x54R's first loading was a large round nosed bullet, as shown in the far left of this picture:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/images/r2simp.jpg

At a sedate muzzle velocity, with a heavy jacket and high sectional density, it sometimes acted like an arrow or crossbow bolt. With the higher velocity spitzer-style bullets that all the great powers adopted after 1905, the Mosin became considerably more lethal and I don't think folks found as many survivors walking and talking after a brain hit.

BBstacker
April 8, 2010, 02:44 PM
I have a M91-30,M44,and aM38. The M38 was counter bored and paid $67.00 for it. I used it to sporterized. Yes it is cheaper to buy a modern rifle but I did it for fun. I drilled & taped it for a scope, installed a bent bolt,did some trigger work, & installed a synthetic stock. I am not happy with the stock. I am going to order a wood one from Boyd's.

ccsniper
April 8, 2010, 02:55 PM
those m38's are selling for about the same as a new sporting rifle now.

dirtyjim
April 9, 2010, 03:35 PM
you can convert a mosin to just about anything if you have the skills & equipment.
here is a pic of my 220 swiftAI conversion.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mosin%20sporters/220swiftmosin4.jpg
its on a remington m91 receiver, the barrel is from a remington 722 that originaly was chambered in .222, i re-threaded it for the mosin then rechambered it to .220 swiftAI. i also bushed the boltface for the .473 dia. casehead, modified the extractor & the ejector/interuptor. i'm going to replace the ati stock with a european classic from great american & add a swedish q/r sidemout.
right now i have under $200 tied up in it.
i have a few more mosin projects in the works and on the drawing board.
this barrel will be chambered inthe 7mmx54r wildcat and i'm going to build a stock for it similar to the mini-windrunner.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mosin%20sporters/finnedbarrelmosin1.jpg
this barrel is from a russian maxim machinegun. its bore isn't that great so it it doesn't shoot good i'll just have it rebored to .338 cal for a 8.5x54r wildcat.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/mosin%20sporters/maximbarreledmosin1.jpg

i'm also planning on building a target rifle in 6.5 vostock and a dg rifle in 9.5x54r.
i'm going to order the barrel & a .375 neck & throat reamer for the dg rifle this weekend.

mbharris@alaska.edu
April 13, 2010, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the chatter.

I teach at UAF in Fairbanks. We also have a policy restricting firearms in campus buildings, but I can get an instructional dispensation for something like this. For the longest time, our department had an armory with guns that could be checked out for field work (ie anti bear). Things are a little different up here in AK, where 15 minutes from town you become part of the food chain ... and not the top ;-}

Any more leads would be great. I'm keeping an eye open at our shows and will make a run to Anchorage over the summer as there are more stores. If anyone knows of one in Anchorage, I'd appreciate a shout.
Also, my needs are really for a prop that's not functional, so if anyone has a relatively inexpensive non-functional example, it love to hear.

Thanks

Mike

Brimic
April 14, 2010, 09:24 AM
Check gunboards.com for M91s for sale.

This guy has a bunch of them, most are finnish captures or reworks:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?151452-WTS-Mosins-lowered-prices-updated-5-APR-2010
#14 and #15 would be closest to original condition.

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