Shortage of 7.62x39 big time!


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Lonestar.45
May 20, 2006, 11:26 PM
Yes, I've heard of the shortage of 7.62x39 lately, but it didn't seem to be too bad locally. Today opened my eyes. Went to the Austin Tx gunshow. I got there around 11:00. One ammo man had 2 cases of Wolf left for $150 a case. I cruised around for 10 minutes to see if I could find somewhere cheaper, and there wasn't any by the case anywhere else at the show. Went back to the table, and both cases were gone. Apparently he had 10 cases at 9:00 am and all were gone before 11:30.

So I drove over to the local Academy (where I saw probably 50-60 boxes two days before on the shelves for $2.99 a box) and it was cleaned out. Academy always used to have it, but lately it seems they only get it in about once every two weeks or so and it is gone in a couple of days.

I think folks are stocking up for SHTF/looter season or something. Thankfully I still have a case tucked away from back when it was $80! I think those days are LONG gone.

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trickyasafox
May 20, 2006, 11:35 PM
totally dry by me. wolff has long been gone, and umc at 9 bucks a box is scarce

Preacherman
May 20, 2006, 11:51 PM
Quite frankly, I'm beginning to wonder whether the shortage isn't deliberately engineered by the importers. I don't accept that for over a year, the shortage has continued due to demand elsewhere - the factories in Russia and elsewhere would be more than capable of tooling up to meet demand. I suspect that having seen how people are willing to pay almost twice as much per case as they used to, the importers will deliberately hold back supply. If they import half as much, but make the same amount of money, what incentive have they got to increase importation? That would drive the price down, which would mean that they'd have to work harder and sell more to achieve the same return.

Fortunately, I still have somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 rounds in my ammo locker . . . and they'll stay there, on "slow use", while I shoot up other, cheaper stuff!

MechAg94
May 21, 2006, 12:14 AM
The problem the importers run into is if they restrict supply to the point that it is difficult to obtain, people will stop buying rifles in those calibers. I think it would hurt their long term business to monkey with their supply too much. I bought a WASR2 a couple months ago. I still don't have ammo. Never shot it. I won't make that mistake again. Also, it gives domestic ammo producers a chance to sell their product.

TexAg
May 21, 2006, 12:15 AM
My 154gr. Wolf order from Sportsmans Guide was initially supposed to be here at the end of April, its now been pushed back to the end of June. Monarch at the local Academy is still available though.

english kanigit
May 21, 2006, 12:31 AM
This burns my but. I just picked up a newly rearsenaled Russian SKS from a pawn shop. That was two months ago and I still haven't shot it. I have almost 140 rounds of wolf/silver bear so I can't really go plinking with it. :(

I'm saving it for an emergency....


Mods, perhaps we can get something useful out of this subject. Could we get a sticky thread for favorite 7.62 short handloads? I recall some forumite bragging in his hardcast 7.62x39 loads. Perhaps we could share the knowledge? Perhaps as time goes on we can have a post in the thread for each scarce caliber or something similar.

Just my 2 cents...
ek


edited to add: I forgot to mention the robbers and rapists running our local range. Right now they're charging $240/ 1000. In four months I've seen 1 case leave the shelf. :mad:

PvtPyle
May 21, 2006, 12:39 AM
Quite frankly, I'm beginning to wonder whether the shortage isn't deliberately engineered by the importers.

It is. And I called James Ha from Wolf on it at the SHOT Show. He gave me the "war sucking it all up" story, but I told him that I knew the Armorers and Ammo NCO's that were currently working with several Iraqi units, and I know the same group of guys working Afghanistan and that they said it was all Czech and other eastern European ammo, not Russian. He hemmed and hawed around a bit and then said to me "Well you dont like sitting on inventory do you?"

That sealed the deal for me.

#shooter
May 21, 2006, 12:44 AM
Ugghhh! I went to a GS and they were charging $5+ a box of Wolf. At a show I paid $75 for an ammo can (440) and that was the last one. I don't know if they are holding back. I was at Gander Mtn and they had made 2 endcaps top to bottom 7x3 ft full of the stuff for 1.99. Within 3 days it was gone. Demand might just be high. Lots of SKSs and AKs at the range. There is always 1 or 2 plinking away using MY AMMO. ;)

craig
May 21, 2006, 12:48 AM
those robbers and rapists have a relative in my town.

the local guy has a case of wolf for sale.

$300.00 :fire: :cuss:

P95Carry
May 21, 2006, 12:48 AM
Wolf left for $150 a case:eek: :eek: :eek:

Holy Moly - and I think back to last year and $80 per case, sheesh!!

I have 2,000 still wrapped and they will stay that way - with occasional use of the few hundred in open case - sure ain't gonna let that lot run too low!:uhoh:

Dionysusigma
May 21, 2006, 02:16 AM
$150 a case still isn't too bad for rifle ammo. .223 is still more than that, isn't it? :confused:

Limeyfellow
May 21, 2006, 02:23 AM
You have to hit the gunshows really early to get the ammo right now. Otherwise some arse goes along and drops $500-1000 and pretty much buys it all out that they can find where they are stockpiling. Theres a fair amount of it still at the NC shows. The net suppliers are slowing getting caught up with the backlog, though I would think in a few months everything be up to par. After all there are various wars going on. Have to keep an eye on 5.56mm too. Supplies are running low in the military from a number of stocks.

Manedwolf
May 21, 2006, 02:28 AM
It would be very interesting if someone could pinpoint EXACTLY where in the supply chain the bottleneck is... and then more could be surmised about why and how it's happening.

I think it'd be rather interesting, to say the least.

As for engineered scarcity and controlled releases of small amounts of a product, that's nothing new to the marketplace. The De Beers cartel, with literally warehouses stuffed with diamonds in undisclosed locales, has been doing it for much of this century.

trickyasafox
May 21, 2006, 03:17 AM
guys, this isn't debeers. they hold the market on a rare earth stone, that can't be readily substituted. if supply runs short much longer, you'll see another company tool up to meet demand with another low cost equivilent. why you ask? because there is a huge market segment. i have 2 sks's. i have bought 1 box of 20 rounds, and until prices soften, i won't buy another. someone will always be willing to undercut another person to steal business.

is it crazy that people think they'll get away with this? absolutely. as for the war line, hell if they were smart they'd say the metals market and price of oil screwed them :scrutiny: even though the way they produce wolff ammo they use very little metal that was affected in the market recently. . . .

honestly i think the shortage is guys like me (people who bought a couple yugos cause they are just so darn affordable) and guys who think the only way to get a good night's sleep is by constructing a bed out of cases of wolff horded away for the impending colapse, which on their clock will happen in about 20 minutes.

im hopeful for a mid-summer time frame for supply to catch up. whats that based on? absolutely nothing, but i feel its gotta come sooner than later.

Manedwolf
May 21, 2006, 03:22 AM
Well, the market DOES always correct with competition, yes. Even my example...took a while, but there's now some flawless artificial diamonds coming out that can't be distinguished from those dug up.

The same will happen with ammo FAR quicker if a deliberate shortage continues, I agree. Some other company that could not compete at the old price will find that they can tool up and sell for a profit at something still less than the new prices, and the importers will have broken their own exclusive market.

That's how it goes. :)

22/22mag
May 21, 2006, 03:39 AM
Its kind of like the oil/gas prices no shortage of $3.00 and up is there?Thank you B+C you guys have made a few very rich...Are you now into ammo?

22/22mag
May 21, 2006, 03:40 AM
Its kind of like the oil/gas prices no shortage of $3.00 and up is there?Thank you B+C you guys have made a few very rich...Are you now into ammo?Just asking.:uhoh:

Cosmoline
May 21, 2006, 03:54 AM
Heck, I just got a sweet Star pistol in trade for just one ammo box of mixed lot x39! It's getting pretty serious. The stuff is turning into gun show currency.

Koobuh
May 21, 2006, 04:46 AM
Seriously, it's getting bad. Around here, the cheapest place had Wolf for $3 a box. Gone as of last week, no more on the horizon.
The only place that has Wolf is Yeagers, for $4 a box of 20.
I'm going back to buy more later, because the only other place that had it, Kesselrings (for ~$200 a case), was just bought out by a friend of mine.

If Yeagers is sold out by tuesday, that's it. No more Wolf 7.62x39 will be available at any price until the end of June.

It's simply unbelievable. Of course, you can get all the Federal (at $10 a box) you want. ;)

Remington788
May 21, 2006, 07:27 AM
My father was at an auction yesterday and they had 2400 rounds of 7.62x39 that went for $5.00 per box of 20. One guy bought them all.

On the plus side, he picked up a nice Smith and Wesson model 29 for $325.

ugaarguy
May 21, 2006, 07:46 AM
With the new Kel-Tec SU-16s and the age of $600 plinker AR-15 the AK market may be hurting now that surplus 223 can edge 7.62x39 in price. This will be interesting to see how it comes out.

mrrick
May 21, 2006, 07:57 AM
Get a progressive press and reload. That will show them.

444
May 21, 2006, 08:36 AM
I was at a gunshow this past weekend and they had plenty. I wasn't able to make it until Sunday afternoon and they still had Wolf 7.62x39. I didn't pay attention to how much it cost: I don't need any.

"$150 a case still isn't too bad for rifle ammo. .223 is still more than that, isn't it?"
I haven't bought a case of Wolf .223 at a Gunshow (where they sell ammo for a reaonsable price) for awhile but the last case I bought was $99. PMC however is more than $150/case and regular American ammo from Winchester/Remington is more than that. Which is obviously the reason I shoot Wolf.

As far as artificially manipulating the market: I shoot Wolf because it does what I need it to do at a price that is far less than the alternative. It provides me with enough accuracy for the things I normally do with these types of rifles. If they start charging $180/case or more, I have no reason to buy Wolf. I can buy nice American, boxer primed, brass cased ammo for those kinds of prices. Surely they don't think that Wolf is some kind of premium ammo, do they ?

On a positive note: Since ammo prices are going up, maybe more people will get the most out of what they have. In other words, instead of doing stuff like bump firing they will try to become good marksman (and markswomen :rolleyes: ). Only hits count. You can't miss enough to win a gun fight.
Sight picture/sight alignment/and trigger control: the three secrets.

cracked butt
May 21, 2006, 08:58 AM
Feh, screw Wolf and their substandard ammunition. There are plenty of rifles out there chambered in .308 and .223 both of which are reasonably priced and available most everywhere. For the price of a case of Wolf ammo that some are quoting, you can buy a high point 9mm carbine which is extremely cheap to feed . The AKs and SKS' might have to sit in the back of the safe for a year or two, but surplus 7.62x39 ammo will become available again.

armoredman
May 21, 2006, 09:48 AM
123gr Hornady Soft Point, Winchester brass, CCI primer, 29 gr H-335, OAl of 2.17, works well in the Yugo and the AK. Not nearly as cheap as Wolf, but beats local factory produced ammo pretty quick.

Use of the above information is at your own risk, no warranties implied or stated.

dracphelan
May 21, 2006, 10:07 AM
This just makes me glad I got rid of my SKS. I've got a case of Brown Bear 7.62x39 left. But, I've already promised it to friends. :evil:

ID_shooting
May 21, 2006, 10:46 AM
My local Wally World started carrying 7.62x39 in WWB @ $18.00 for a 40 round pack. I used to think that was quite high and but the space on the shelf never has more than 4 boxes in it at any moment in time.

That price is starting to look better every day, especially since my last case of wolf is about 2/3 gone and the WWB stuff is reloadable.

I guess it is time to tool up my dillon for ak/sks ammo. I knock out 1k of .38 over a weekend, I guess 7.62x39 wouldn't be much different.

wild billz
May 21, 2006, 11:05 AM
At the gunshow Wolf 7.62x39 was 100 bucks for a case, same as its been for a few years now.

dfaugh
May 21, 2006, 11:09 AM
Yeah, this sucks...Had quite good supply (that I'd gotten when it was cheap)...shot much of it up...Now I'm down to "minimum" level, and don't wanna shoot anymore, 'cause I can't replace it cheaply. Have a strict shooting budget, and have to pick and choose what I shoot. Luckily no shortages of cheap 9mm or .22 (I use the Wolf Match Target), and my buddy handloads for 8x57(have some surplus, but its innacurate, so I don't like it), so at least I can still go shooting with a variety of guns.

Drakejake
May 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
I recently got two cases of x39 Wolf from Cabela's after waiting about two weeks for shipment.

Drakejake

Third_Rail
May 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
$125.95 for a case, not including S&H, from Ammunition Store.
$169 including S&H from AmmoMan.


What shortage?

Sewerman
May 21, 2006, 12:00 PM
I spent 2 hours on the net yesterday and could not find so much as a box of 7.62x39.:(

fordfan485
May 21, 2006, 12:01 PM
I went to the Dixie Classic Gun and Knife Show in Richmond yesterday and the only guy that had 7.62x39 left was selling 10 round stripper clips for 5 bucks each. Talk about a :cuss: ripoff!

Third_Rail
May 21, 2006, 12:05 PM
Ripoff, maybe. Increase in price, absolutely. Shortage, no.

2TransAms
May 21, 2006, 12:07 PM
At my gun shop I bought a few cases of Wolf about two years ago for $74 a case(1000 rounds). Now they carry the Brown Bear ammo at $88 for 500 rounds.That's $176 for 1000 rounds. They have cases of Federal SS109 for $209. Both are the best prices I can find locally,or just about anywhere.

PvtPyle
May 21, 2006, 12:31 PM
What I find most interesting is that the wholesalers we have talked to say that the price of ammo from Wolf has not gone up inordinately considering the increased costs in shipping. So your local dealers are the ones bending you over the barrel.

AZgunstudent
May 21, 2006, 12:43 PM
My experience mirrors 444's. Most of the bigger ammo dealers at the last Phoenix Crossroads show had pallets of Wolf 7.62x39. I shoot mainly .223 and .308, and was there to buy a P3AT, so I didn't look too closely at the prices. They seemed to average around $89/500 and $169/1000. Wolf .223 was offered for less, but there seemed to be plenty of the 7.62 for sale.

albanian
May 21, 2006, 12:48 PM
What would be great is if CCI made a Blazer 7.62x39mm like they do for 9mm and other calibers and sold it as cheap as Wolf. Wolf ammo is crap anyway, I would much rather buy American than support the Russian mafia or whoever runs that tolite of a country.

Come on America, produce some cheap 7.62 ammo so we can go tell Russia to piss off.

Gewehr98
May 21, 2006, 01:10 PM
Mods, perhaps we can get something useful out of this subject. Could we get a sticky thread for favorite 7.62 short handloads? I recall some forumite bragging in his hardcast 7.62x39 loads. Perhaps we could share the knowledge? Perhaps as time goes on we can have a post in the thread for each scarce caliber or something similar.


I mean, c'mon, that's a big "Duh" right there...


Now, having posted my favorite 7.62x39 handloads in the Handloading and Reloading portion of THR, I can quite honestly state there are several good loads listed there. I'm sitting on a couple thousand rounds of my own handloads for that chambering, and just bought a few hundred more pieces of once-fired brass to keep my AK and SKS rifles fed while people whine about the lack of available cheap surplus ammo.

Langenator
May 21, 2006, 01:34 PM
At the WAC Puyallup show yesterday, there were at least two dealers (both of whom sell on the web-BuyAmmo.com (http://www.buyammo.com) and SurplusAmmo.com (http://www.surplusammo.com)-selling Wolf 7.62x39 for $160/1000. It's not the $80-100/1000 it was a couple years ago, but that's about average for today.

They didn't appear to have any shortages, either. Although this was before lunch on Saturday.

They also had tons (almost enough for that to be literal tons) of various kinds of East Bloc 7.62x54R. Just none of the Wolf I was actually looking for in that caliber.

Roadkill
May 21, 2006, 02:21 PM
Diversify, gentlemen. When 7.62x39 gets high, shoot .223. When it gets high, shoot .308, when it gets high, shoot 30.06, when it gets high, shoot 7.62x54,
when it gets high, shoot 30-30. When it gets high, shoot 8mm or .303. Like most of you, I have a minimum stash level. But whatever is cheapest and most available is what I'll be shooting. Right now I'm wearing out a Mod 39 and 1917 Remington Mn, also a BYF 1944 K98. Haven't shot my 303s in a couple of years except for my reloads. Buy it when you can get it and reload.

rk

1911JMB
May 21, 2006, 04:01 PM
I do believe we should all boycot Wolf. They are ripping us off, and we need to more or less beat them into submission if we want the price to go back down.

2TransAms
May 21, 2006, 04:59 PM
I do believe we should all boycot Wolf. They are ripping us off, and we need to more or less beat them into submission if we want the price to go back down.
While that works in theory,in reality it's like boycotting Amoco.Someone,not us but someone,will continue to pay whatever they ask.And it's simple economics,if people keep paying,the price doesn't go down.

Soybomb
May 21, 2006, 05:06 PM
One of my problems with the price fixing conspiracy is that there is more than 1 russian ammo manufacturer isn't there? If Wolf is dragging their feet isn't it logical to expect Barnaul http://www.ab.ru/~stanok/eng/index.htm to step up production a bit and under cut wolfs price?

Kenneth Lew
May 21, 2006, 07:16 PM
What would be great is if CCI made a Blazer 7.62x39mm like they do for 9mm and other calibers and sold it as cheap as Wolf. Wolf ammo is crap anyway, I would much rather buy American than support the Russian mafia or whoever runs that tolite of a country.

Come on America, produce some cheap 7.62 ammo so we can go tell Russia to piss off.

1. There ain't going to be cheap anything brass. Local range was offered $1.40 per lb. of unsorted, uncleaned, scrap brass. Steel is going to be cheaper.
2. American Labor is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE than Russian Labor. The only way for any American company to compete against Wolf is either set up in a factory overseas or hire undocumented workers at a very low rate. Globalization sucks doesn't it.

armoredman
May 21, 2006, 07:54 PM
...hire undocumented workers at a very low rate... And if the LIEberals heard CCI was using illegals to make ammo, ya think the whole guest worker program might get ignored in that case....
On the other hand, it WOULD cause Feinstien to suffer apoplexy...

MechAg94
May 21, 2006, 08:10 PM
I am taking this opportunity to shoot .308 and .223 rifles. I might shoot my SKS a little, but I am holding off for now.

Gordon
May 21, 2006, 09:33 PM
I bought 13,000 7.62x39 rounds for Y2k , I shot up 4000 since then. Prolly have enough until the END!:neener:

redneck2
May 21, 2006, 09:37 PM
There ain't going to be cheap anything brass. Local range was offered $1.40 per lb. of unsorted, uncleaned, scrap brass. Steel is going to be cheaper.
2. American Labor is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE than Russian Labor. The only way for any American company to compete against Wolf is either set up in a factory overseas or hire undocumented workers at a very low rate. Globalization sucks doesn't it. Hang on to your hats guys. This is just the wake up call for what's coming. As above, copper is way above previous historic highs. What to do think it costs to ship a truckload of lead??

I just spent $30 at the gas station today and got a little over 1/2 a tank of gas. Everything is going to go up. The big problem is that everything is related somehow to energy costs.

Most of you guys are just too young to remember the Jimmy Carter days, when you could literally watch prices rise. I think it's back. I remeber when gas was 19 cents, cars were less than $3,000. Houses were 20k.

Look around and remember. In a few years, these will be "the good old days" to the Gen X crowd.

Kenneth Lew
May 21, 2006, 11:06 PM
I bought 13,000 7.62x39 rounds for Y2k , I shot up 4000 since then. Prolly have enough until the END!

When Winchester White Box 115 gr. 9mm was on sale @ Bass Pro Shops for $3.86, I went to Oshmans and asked if they matched prices. They did and I bought 24,000 rds. of 9mm right before they closed.

HAH HAH TO EVERYONE THAT FOUGHT AT BASS PRO SHOP FOR THEIR PRECIOUS 1 CASE LIMIT

1. 1 Pair of Nike Shorts ............................................... $9.99 plus tax
2. 1 Pair of size 12 Nike running shoes .......................... $39.99 plus tax
3. 24,000 rds of 9mm ............................................ $1,852.80 plus tax
4. The look on the Police officers face doing security......PRICELESS

Ammo all shot away in 1 year.

MaterDei
May 21, 2006, 11:23 PM
Funny, KL!

I'm glad I stocked up too.

omnivore75
May 21, 2006, 11:29 PM
There has been a shortage of winchester and lake city NEW FRONTLINE ISSUE (not the bulk packed m855pd garbage) 5.56 m855 for a long time with the excuse being "the war" but I never expected a shortage of 7.62!! My god man how many countrys have fifty billion rounds of that cheap crap lying around?? There is probably an AK and 200 rounds of ammo for every man on the face of the earth out there. Smells like a scam to make some money by the importers if I ever heard one, but what do I know. I have been spending to add to my gun collection up to this point but now it looks like I am going to have to save up and buy a bunch of ammo and mags before it gets too rediculous. I plan to be prepared. I figure 1 or 2000 rounds of NEW M855 and 500 rounds of .40 should be okay as a start. I already have all the high quality ammo for all my home defense weapons that I need to defend my home but one has to think ahead. Now if I just had the cash to build a hidden, reinforced bunker 100 feet underground with a 10,000 gallon fuel tank, a couple of industrial generators, 500 cases of MRE's, and plenty of fresh bottled water and maybe I would feel a little safer hehehe.

mrmeval
May 22, 2006, 10:10 AM
Capitalists Exploit!

Robbers steal.


those robbers and rapists have a relative in my town.

the local guy has a case of wolf for sale.

$300.00

Steelcore
May 22, 2006, 11:00 AM
whats really strange is that other producers haven't filled in the hole left by the exit of Wolf.
Heres a short list of countries that make it:
Romania
Yugoslavia
Albania
Poland
Hungary
I've bought ammo from all the above countries over the years.

Langenator
May 22, 2006, 01:14 PM
Don't forget China. Or does ammo fall under the Clinton ban on Chinese guns as well?

Limeyfellow
May 22, 2006, 01:43 PM
Taiwan which is part of China I guess provides a massive amount of 5.56mm nato to the US military in exchange for hellfires and some other highend weaponary. That tends to be keeping that a float since they closed so many of the production factories in the US and then decided to go to a multigenerational war.

However from mainland China 7.62x39 ammo is still banned from being imported due to some bs because it uses steel cores and there are certain handguns that use this round so banned as an armour piercing handgun round. The ban was implemented in 1986 by the Reagon administration, during the whole "cop killer bullets!" time.

asknight
May 22, 2006, 03:04 PM
Well my closest Gander Mtn had 10 cases of Wolf the other day for $150/case or $2.99/box. It lasted about a half a day. I think three buyers bought all of it.

AJAX22
May 22, 2006, 03:21 PM
Shucks, 7.62x39 as a 'common handgun' round? c-mmon, thats just rediculous, I know of .45-70 handguns too but that doesn't make it a handgun round.

thats like banning .410 shotgun shells because they'll fit in a 45 colt derringer thereby making it a short barrled shotgun.

Its hard to believe that people are getting these restrictions passed. Its like the blind leading the blind, how can they pass laws on things that they don't even understand? Its bad enough that they are misguided and moraly bankrupt, but its a crime that they are allowed to pass laws without even being educated on the subject.

we need to make a law that elected officials have to pass a test on the subject matter that they intend to legislate on. Each side of the issue can prepare 150 pages of documentation, and at the end each group gets to proctor a test. If you can't get a C or better you don't get to pass a law.

Carl N. Brown
May 22, 2006, 03:25 PM
Temporary shortage + panic buying = no 7.62x39 on shelf.

(At least I hope it is tempoaray.)

Oleg Volk
May 22, 2006, 03:29 PM
Russian forums report that only one brand of 7.62x39 is readily available there, mainly because they won the market competition.

ID_shooting
May 22, 2006, 04:53 PM
Well Oleg, it would be nice if they made inexpensive 7.62x39 readily available here as well, LOL

Davo
May 22, 2006, 05:25 PM
Im gonna save up the half case I have as long as I can...and fondle my Makarov while I look at pictures of 9x18 on the internet.

Gewehr98
May 22, 2006, 06:53 PM
24,000 rds of 9mm ............................................ $1,852.80 plus tax

If that doesn't make me glad I handload, I doesn't know what does. :what:

english kanigit
May 22, 2006, 07:44 PM
24,000 rds of 9mm ............................................ $1,852.80 plus tax

Hmmm, 13/ round. Not bad. ;)

I am taking a personal lesson from this mess. I'll be buying 7.62x54r like there's no tomorrow. Especially anything with LPS on it.

omnivore75
May 22, 2006, 08:47 PM
Handloads are great for practice but I know that I personally want quality factory produced defensive ammo to store for the future. There is some brand new 2004 manufacture Winchester m855 for sale on gunbroker.com right now for a good price. It's the real deal not the bulk packed garbage.

Coronach
May 22, 2006, 09:11 PM
24,000 rds of 9mm ............................................ $1,852.80 plus tax Hmmm, 13/ round. Not bad. Psssssst...more like 7.7 cents/round. ;)

1852.8=$0.0772
24000

Mike ;)

english kanigit
May 22, 2006, 09:21 PM
Ach!!

:uhoh:

wrong number/ wrong number
Somebody please zap me.
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/images/smilies/slap.gif

Coronach
May 22, 2006, 09:23 PM
I hate math too. :D

Mike

MD_Willington
May 22, 2006, 10:02 PM
Hows 5.45x39mm holding up, haven't looked around in a while...?

Cribbage
May 23, 2006, 12:23 AM
OK, I'm new to the AK game, but what is wrong with $4/20 ? Other than it used to be $2 ?

Seriously, that isn't much more per round than 9mm. I'll consistantly buy it at $4/20.

Everything goes up; why shouldn't 7.62 ?

Cribbage

444
May 23, 2006, 12:28 AM
Because these prices of $80/1000 and such are prices we were getting within the last six months. This stuff like doubled over night.

P95Carry
May 23, 2006, 12:29 AM
Yes, everything does tend to go up but after getting the stuff as I have a few times for $80 per case ($1.60 per 20) - the rise like that sure gets noticeable!!

Small and incremental increases are more easily absorbed - price hikes hurt!

Limeyfellow
May 23, 2006, 03:24 AM
I was able to pick it up at $2.50 a box of 20 at gunshows in NC, though the panic buyers are the scourge of existence and try and pick up several thousand rounds at once has caused the most problems.

Koobuh
May 23, 2006, 04:11 AM
"Ripoff, maybe. Increase in price, absolutely. Shortage, no."

Sorry, if it's not available, there's a shortage.

Right now, Ammoman and Ammunitionstore are out. Slap out.

I don't expect to find any at Yeagers tomorrow.

Looks like I'll be waiting for Cabelas to ship out their stuff whenever they get it; until then, my newly-built AK is a slick paperweight.
Darnit, and I have to figure out why it's throwing shots everywhere, too. :mad:

chrisbob
May 23, 2006, 04:35 AM
7.62x39 and 5.45x39 have been hard to find lately at a decent price I think they will be back around but not as cheap what used to be 80/1000 will likely be 110/1000 still much cheaper than w-mart if you are using alot

billcavazos
May 23, 2006, 05:52 AM
Wow, that is hard to believe a shortage on 7.62x39.

Coronach
May 23, 2006, 11:55 AM
Ripoff, maybe. Increase in price, absolutely. Shortage, no.
Sorry, if it's not available, there's a shortage.What he's trying to say is that there is not a shortage in the classic sense; the suppliers are still making cartridges, the importers are just not importing them, presumably in a hope to drive up demand so they can sell what they subsequently import for just silly amounts of money. Your classic shortage is supply not keeping up with demand, as in the suppliers cannot make an item fast enough to slake demand. So yes, there is a shortage, but it is, seemingly, an artificial one.

This begs the question: assuming that the importers are tightening up the importation in order to increase price, and hence, their profit margins, how much longer can they continue to do this? I mean, they make money by importing stuff. Right now, they're not importing 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, ergo, they're losing the money they would otherwise make on that product. Presumably, the makers in Russia are not selling the product, either (at least not in the numbers they used to sell). If this hurts us, it hurts them worse. At some point they have to start selling again, or they'll go under. How long will that be?

Again, I have no clue whether this is the scenario that is currently being played out or not. I just none that none of the scenarios I have heard make 100% sense (which tells me that, surprise, we don't have all of the facts).

Mike

eclancy
May 23, 2006, 12:10 PM
Gentlemen,
Not sure on the date but this has happened before. About 1997/98 there was a run on 7.62x39. Maybe some of you older guys remember. The story was that no more was coming in and the price hit the roof. However, after a few months it showed up again and the price drop to about 99 a case.
Just my .02
Thanks again
Clancy

carlrodd
May 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
I bought 13,000 7.62x39 rounds for Y2k , I shot up 4000 since then. Prolly have enough until the END!

there's the problem. the market is still probably recovering from that purchase. if you bought that much because it was really cheap, and you thought, 'wow, i'll never have to buy any again', that would make sense. but what exactly did you think was going to happen in 2000 that would require you having 13,000 rounds of one sort of ammunition....and how did you envision yourself using it?

bowfin
May 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
The price of 7.62 x 39 can only go as high as what it would cost to reload a batch. (at least for me)

If you pay more than that, then it isn't the importers or dealers who are putting the screws to you.

When it comes to a source of plentiful, reliable ammuniton, think Dillion, not Wolf.

robertbank
May 23, 2006, 12:36 PM
With the US dollar falling relative to other currencies you can be sure you will be paying more for the surplus ammo from Europe. Seems like there is lots of 7 x 39 up here so there should be no shortage Stateside. Not sure if Marstar can ship ammo across the 49th but you could give them a try.

Take Care

Gewehr98
May 23, 2006, 12:56 PM
BTW, the name of the manufacturer of progressive reloading presses is "Dillon", not "Dillion".

I believe part of the spot shortages is folks going and buying 10K rounds at a time to hoard for later when the UN blue helmets are supposed to come marching up their driveways. The distributors probably don't account for that type of volume sale when they ship allotments to retail dealers. Hence, an artificially high price, and I'm sure there's a ripple effect, but perhaps it'll end up in a glut at the tail end.

Meanwhile, my Dillon 550 cranks 'em out in batches of 50/100 at a sitting. Shortage? What shortage? ;)

ajax
May 23, 2006, 01:20 PM
Man, some of you guys are taking a royal screwin. Still gettin it for 70 to 80$ around here. The ammo's not going away. Quit buying for awhile and show the local shops and distributers who the boss really is. If their not making anything on the stuff those prices will come down. Just my opinion.

Thin Black Line
May 23, 2006, 03:18 PM
Diversify, gentlemen.

+1.

Must be a lot of new x39 shooters here who don't remember the mid 90s
when prices were $6+/box and your cheapest choices were PMC or whatever
EEur ammo slipped in from time to time.....

BTW, when you diversify, please pick something I don't shoot.....:D

HiWayMan
May 23, 2006, 04:39 PM
Well mates I just ran the numbers. All prices are current on MidWayUSA and include no shipping. All components, but powder are the cheapest available, and powder uses the smallest listed charge.

Rem. .310" 125gr. SP $98.99/1000

Win. brass $215.99/1000

MagTech small rifle primers $14.99/1000

Powder Hodgdon H4198 $18.99/lbs. @ 26.5gr = 3.79lbs/1000 , round to 4lbs. = $75.96

Total per 1000 = $405.93 in components only


My point, even made it to myself, Wolff is still cheap at twice the price.

Car Knocker
May 23, 2006, 04:54 PM
But the first time you reload that brass, the price starts getting down into Wolf territory.

Lonestar.45
May 23, 2006, 04:57 PM
A few folks here asked why shouldn't it go up, everything else goes up. True, but it has gone up 100% in the last year. Other ammo has not. That's the rub. It is still one of the cheaper centerfire rounds to shoot, but the dramatic climb in price and low availability just got me wondering and that's why I started this thread.

BTW, went to Cabelas in Buda today, they were completely out, even out of the expensive stuff. Sportsmen's warehouse, the same thing (I bought the last two measly boxes of Wolf they had for 2.99). It's just weird. In just about every place I go, there are stacks of ammo, and then a big hole where the 7.62x39 USED to be.

I'm not into the tinfoil hat stuff, but it does make one wonder what is up.

HiWayMan
May 23, 2006, 05:04 PM
True Car Knocker, but take away the brass price and you are still looking at $189.94. Assuming 100% retention.

Car Knocker
May 23, 2006, 05:22 PM
You're right, $190 for components IS steep, but if you're buying Wolf for $200+ ($240 at one range someone reported), then it looks pretty good, especially since there isn't an availability issue.

gunguy56
May 23, 2006, 08:20 PM
FWIW, I have learned from US ARMY soldiers in IRAQ that the new Iraqi defense forces are taking delivery of new Russian 7.62 x 39 ammo. PAID FOR BY OUR TAX MONIES!! Where do you think all those billions of dollars of defense monies are being spent?? Got to give those Russians their share of our tax dollars too!!!! What little production capability is left goes to US importers for domestic US shooters. Good excuse to raise prices....

PvtPyle
May 23, 2006, 08:42 PM
I have talked to an armorer or two that are working as imbed training team. The codes on the boxes they have been getting are Czech and Bulgarian. The new stuff they received last month were Yugo rounds from Bosnia (I guess the ammo made it but the 200,000 AK's did not:what: )

But the Russians did just agree to sell the Afghans a few million rounds of Ak ammo, 100,000 RPG warheads (hopefully some thermobaric rounds for clearing out caves) and 12,000 old arty rounds. How ironic that the Russians are selling the Afghans rounds for the guns they were forced to leave behind.....:evil:

That said in looking at the numbers from the JSC companies, Poly, Molot and Izmash those numbers will not even make a dent in their production capabilities. I spoke with the Izmash rep at length yesterday and they said they could fill the Venezuala order in a years time if they needed to, that's 100,000 AK-100 series rifles.
Just to give you and idea of what they can do, Molot alone can turn out about 220,000 guns a year from the arms plants.

Mannlicher
May 23, 2006, 09:19 PM
ammo availability seems to run in cycles. After all, most of what we are looking for is MilSurp. I have, er, adequate, quantities on hand now, and by doing so, avoid the panic during times of temporary shortages.

Gewehr98
May 23, 2006, 09:22 PM
But I got my brass for free, as a benefit to being a range officer for several years. The range I frequent most also lets me rummage through the brass bins for free, which is a nice thing.

Likewise, I don't buy bulk components from Midway if I can avoid it, they aren't always the best deal in town. I'm still using what's left of several thousand Russian 123gr FMJ bullets bought from Widener's a couple years ago.

If you look around, you can probably reduce that $98/1000 bullet quote by half. I've even tried Berry's plated .311" bullets, at $61/1000, and they worked just fine in my AK and SKS rifles, as long as one doesn't crimp too hard through the plating.

Likewise, I'd suggest Accurate Arms 1680 as the powder for the 7.62x39 (and 7.62x45 VZ-52) rounds. It's imported from Czechoslovakia, and bulk deals can be had. There are also good deals to be found on military pull-down powder, in 8-pound lots or larger, which can be suitably loaded for the 7.62x39.

I will recommend, however, that one uses CCI #34 primers when loading 7.62x39 ammo for the AK and SKS. I won't go cheap on those, they significantly reduce the risk of a slamfire compared to the softer Winchester/Federal/Remington varieties.

Gordon
May 23, 2006, 09:30 PM
I bought 10 cases of the stuff CAREFULLY in 1999 10. cases of real war surplus South African brass stuff at a real good price, no steel case ammo for me!I already had a couple thousand rounds of it from various sources.I was gonna use it to feed my 4 AKs and keep my 100 mags topped up if SHTF:neener:
However it is proving to be a good investment , along with the 2400 rounds of Lake City .308 and the 5000 rounds of Fed. XM855 , which is gone(except for the good brass), as that is what I train with pretty much. BTW in 1999 that was the "primer famine" scare!:uhoh:

craig
May 23, 2006, 10:58 PM
i ordered 500 rounds 7.62x39 from the-armory.com. on 5-22

69.99... 86.25 with shipping.

in transit via ups. scheduled delivery 5-25.

at least they had some.:)

Dmack_901
May 23, 2006, 11:39 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=5.00&from=USD&to=RUB
Says our dollar has devalued(realitave to the Russian Rouble) ~3.5% since last year. That alone wouldn't explain the change.

If the producer's are raising the price, due to Foreign demand, there's nothing we can do.

If the importer's are raising the price, just to make a buck, then an importer's FFL only cost $150... Others would have already gotten into it. (BTW I wonder hoe complicated importation really is. It might be easier than we think. I always thought PCs were complicated, until I built one. It's really just throwing parts together. Importing might be the same way.)

So it's got to be the producers who are the problem.

Vic
May 23, 2006, 11:53 PM
When it (7.62x39) first hit the shelves, it was a little higher. I had a couple of SKS, MAC90, and a Romainian AK. I later sold these all off because I didn't want to deal with the .311 ball and reloading. The ammo was scarce and expensive. I decided to stick with NATO in the 7.62 and 5.56. I still see LC66/67 head stamps in both these rounds as well as 70's/80's/ and 90's MFGR. I think the AK47 and the SKS are fine combat proven weapons but ammo has always been a concern of mine with these. Yes, the round is common anyplace in the world, but not common in North America as you are finding out. If you were to go into a gas station in the U/P of Michigan, odds are that they will have 30-06/.308/30-30 on the shelf (maybe even some 6.5 Swedish mauser), and for sure...12GA.;)

MechAg94
May 24, 2006, 12:04 AM
There is some Russian surplus 5.45 floating around. Ammoman and Dan's Ammo have some. Others probably do also. I just ordered some from Dan's.

I don't understand the panic buying with the price high. I finally pulled together a little over 1000 rounds, but I am cooling off on AK shooting until later on. If the price drops back down, I will likely stock up a little bit as funds are available. There is a limit to how much I can store away though. I have too many other calibers to maintain. :)

I have noticed an urge in the back of my head to buy plenty of surplus in other calibers when I see it. Not sure where that is coming from. :D

riverdog
May 24, 2006, 12:31 AM
7.62x39 AMMO SHORTAGE (http://www.ammoman.com/AMMO_SHORTAGE.htm)Pentagon chiefs have asked arms suppliers for a quote on a vast amount of ordnance, including more than 78 million rounds of AK47 ammunition, 100,000 rocket-propelled grenades and 12,000 tank shells. . .Defence specialists said Russian arms chiefs at first "fell about laughing" because they thought the order was a joke when it arrived this month.

Time to shoot something that will available before 2008. After 2008 Russian ammo won't come in due to the new Democrat President.

Seven High
May 24, 2006, 08:11 AM
Venezuela and Iran are both stocking up on both AK rifles and ammunition and other implements of war in anticipation of an invasion. In addition to our government buying ammo for the Iraqi forces explains where the ammunition is been going recently.

Radagast
May 24, 2006, 09:52 AM
Iron ore went up 71% last year and 19% this year. Steel case and steel core ammo input costs will rise as a result.

MechAg94
May 24, 2006, 10:35 AM
but others have said the wholesale price from the manufacturers has not increased much.

Lonestar.45
May 24, 2006, 11:28 AM
Riverdog, good post about the American request to supply the Afghan army. I guess it would make sense that we'd want to stock up the Afghan army in case a dem was elected and decided to pull out.

But that's a LOT of ammo man! 78 million rounds of 7.62x39? I sure hope they put it to good use, because if it fell into the wrong hands, that could keep the terorrist training camps in training ammo for 200 years.

Methinks now might be a good time to break down and get an AR, and keep the SKS/AK/7.62x39 safe and dry for a rainy day.

trbon8r
May 24, 2006, 11:37 AM
Sounds like a good time to sell the case of Chinese I've got in the garage for a gun that I no longer own.

AJAX22
May 24, 2006, 03:22 PM
I didn't really believe that there was a shortage untill I went and picked up my sks yesterday.

the entire shop (which had 10 or so sks's for sale) only had about 500 rounds of ammunition for sale

27.00 + tax per 90 rounds of cheap chinese led core.

they didn't have any steel core AP, and that was the cheapest stuff they had.

I was forced to buy one 'battle pack' of it (90 rounds) just to have SOMETHING to keep with my gun.

What the heck is going on?

mrrick
May 24, 2006, 07:17 PM
Wolf 7.62x39 122gr Bi-Metal JHP, 20 rds (Polymer Coated) 0 $3.09 - $3.50

www.outdoormarksman.com

MechAg94
May 24, 2006, 07:24 PM
I have heard that if you order by the case from Sportsman's Guide or others you can get it off backorder in a few weeks. I was told today that they are getting 5.45 that way as well.

chrisbob
May 25, 2006, 02:54 AM
I have heard way too many scenarios on why it is hard to find surplus ammo. If so many people own the rifles, why doesn't an american company start prodcing them 5.45x39 for one example although there are many more I for one would pay more to know my hard earned money is staying where I earned it.!

Darkside852003
May 25, 2006, 03:44 AM
Midway has Wolf FMJ and HP for $115 per 1000.

Drue
May 25, 2006, 05:58 AM
Darkside,

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered two cases.


Drue

Kurush
May 25, 2006, 09:38 AM
Venezuela and Iran are both stocking up on both AK rifles and ammunition and other implements of war in anticipation of an invasion. In addition to our government buying ammo for the Iraqi forces explains where the ammunition is been going recently.Iran uses the G3A6 in 7.62 NATO.

goon
May 25, 2006, 03:08 PM
Being able to get Wolf is great and all, but what about Ulyanovsk? That stuff shot way better in my rifles and I NEVER had any trouble at all. Sealed primers and case mouths and it came in 700 round cans. When that stuff dried up is when I started looking to other calibers to serve my needs.
As someone else stated, we may be better off to just build up a small stock and then train ourselves to make every round count.
Maybe shooting fewer rounds can be twisted around to become a good thing.

silliman89
May 25, 2006, 09:04 PM
Midway has Wolf FMJ and HP for $115 per 1000.

They went out of stock while i was trying to buy their last case. I back ordered a couple of cases though at $113.99. They say it will ship end of June. We'll see.

Darkside852003
May 26, 2006, 02:38 PM
Just recived my 1K of Wolf FMJ. Ordered Wednesday, very fast shipping

Kenneth Lew
May 26, 2006, 05:02 PM
If so many people own the rifles, why doesn't an american company start prodcing them 5.45x39 for one example although there are many more I for one would pay more to know my hard earned money is staying where I earned it.!

The average gunowner is a Wal-Mart customer, they will not pay extra because it is made in the United States.

The Real Hawkeye
May 26, 2006, 06:25 PM
If they import half as much, but make the same amount of money, what incentive have they got to increase importation?That's a misunderstanding of the laws of economics. When prices are high, suppliers will be highly motivated to dump as much on the market as they can find to take FULL advantage of the higher prices, and therefore higher profits. Only after this dumping has fully been absorbed will the price gradually drop, so long as the high supply stays, but every importer is looking for the coup of a sudden huge profit which is only possible if they are among the first to dump huge quantities on the market at the inflated price, and speed is of the essence. That very fact will then eventually, not right away, cause the price to drop. The fact that this is not happening means for sure that supplies are actually tight, and not artificially so.

2TransAms
May 27, 2006, 01:36 AM
Man, some of you guys are taking a royal screwin. Still gettin it for 70 to 80$ around here. The ammo's not going away. Quit buying for awhile and show the local shops and distributers who the boss really is. If their not making anything on the stuff those prices will come down. Just my opinion.
Where are you getting it for $70-80? Is that for 500 or 1000 rounds? Like I posted earlier,Ron & Jo's is $88 for 500 rounds of Brown Bear.

chrisbob
May 27, 2006, 03:04 AM
try dans sporting goods 167/1080 excellent customer service fast delivery if still in stock


best advice I have if you don't want to wait and have your money tied up for a couple of months to save a few dollars

info@dansammo.com
#84 route 380
Apollo,Pa.,15163
call first 1-724-727-2648

RWMC
May 27, 2006, 09:28 AM
It sounds like it is time to set aside the AK and SKS, and start shooting the good ole Mosin Nagant and 98 Mauser again! The surplus 7.62x54R ammo is cheaper now than it was 10 years ago. Yes, it is corrosive, but warm soapy water is cheap to make. Your Mosin and Mauser are begging to releive the itch in your trigger finger and help you through this time of expensive 7.62x39 ammo.

fal 4 me
May 27, 2006, 03:45 PM
I just bought 1000 rounds today at Sportman's Warehouse for 2.99 a box. They still had about 700 rounds in stock after I left.

Limeyfellow
May 27, 2006, 04:39 PM
You can find 7.62x39 made domestically in the US however it has soft boxer primers which cause the likes of slamfires in SKS'. It also usually costs $10-20 for 20 rounds for the likes of remington, winchester, federal and so on when people are used to paying $2-3 for 20 rounds.

Seven High
May 27, 2006, 07:42 PM
Kurush: According to the news media, in recent articles both Iran and Venezuela are buying large quantities of Ak47s and ammunition for same. I am merely quoting the news media.

bratch
May 27, 2006, 07:51 PM
I just bought the local Academy out of their last 1900 rounds. Time to hit the other 2 store in the area.

nelson133
May 27, 2006, 08:00 PM
Dunhams has it (Wolf) this week for $3.49 a box.

aaronrkelly
May 27, 2006, 11:01 PM
I just got 1500 rds in from Sportsmans Guide that I had backordered since the first week of February. Sure I had to wait 3 months but it was bougt at $90 per case so I damn sure didnt let the backorder lapse.

Limeyfellow
May 28, 2006, 02:58 PM
Kurush: According to the news media, in recent articles both Iran and Venezuela are buying large quantities of Ak47s and ammunition for same. I am merely quoting the news media.

Iran uses a licensed version of the G3 (G3A6) for almost all troops. The only troops that use AK47 are some of the reserves and they have more than enough to have to buy anymore, especially since all their small arms are made domestically.

Venezuela did make an order for a 100000 ak47s. However the majority of the military still uses the Fn Fal and and FN Fncs. The ak47s are to be used by militia groups and irregular units in case of invasion by US forces.

arcticap
May 28, 2006, 07:19 PM
At the Durham show, the ammo dealer had a large quantity of Wolf for $179 a case. He had Yugo on clips for $85/500, and another brand of Russian ammo that had just appeared on the market for the same price as wolf. Many other vendors had Wolf for $20/100.

MechAg94
May 29, 2006, 12:38 AM
I am sure none of those Venezuelan AK's will end up in Columbia. ;)

scbair
May 30, 2006, 08:52 AM
That would be great! :D Or, did you mean "Colombia" ???:scrutiny:

MechAg94
May 30, 2006, 08:46 PM
:o

I grew up near Columbus so I guess the other way seemed right. :)

borntxn
June 7, 2006, 01:34 PM
All of the 7.62 was backordered except the Wolf 154 Gr. SP @ cabelas.com, just ordered 1000 rounds. Below is the snippet from my confirmation email.
1 of 21-5187 Wolf 7.62 X 39 154 Gr. Soft Point Ammo w/Dry Box 7.62X39 SP/1000-BOX @ $144.99 each
In stock-Approx delivery Thu 6/15

It might have been mentioned in another post as I just stumbled across this thread but don't forget that the price of metals is going to have a ripple effect on things like bullets if it stays high.

Zrex
June 7, 2006, 02:45 PM
The big brown truck just dropped off 10k rounds of 7.62x39. Now I don't have to worry about running out for at least another 2 months.

:neener:

borntxn
June 7, 2006, 04:13 PM
The big brown truck just dropped off 10k rounds of 7.62x39. Now I don't have to worry about running out for at least another 2 months.
OT, My wife and I were just joking about ordering a pallet of 7.62...does anyone know if there is some sort of government reporting limit on ammo, like the 10K for banks and coin/bullion dealers?

diesel_furry
June 7, 2006, 05:54 PM
I just picked up 1000 rounds of wolf 122gr hp for $169.99 from my local shop today , he said he got 5000 rounds in the other day. i was going to get more but figured 1000 will last me a long time.

P95Carry
June 7, 2006, 05:56 PM
wolf 122gr hp for $169.99
Shucks!!:eek: Looks like my days of $80.00 per case of 1,000 at gunshows is well and truly gone!:(

diesel_furry
June 7, 2006, 06:04 PM
It perrty much is gone , last gun show i was at most was around $6 a box of 20 bulk was the same , this is $3.40 a box so it's not too bad , i got 5 boxes left from gander mnt' i got early this yr for $2.25 a box wish i would got more

taliv
June 7, 2006, 06:08 PM
it's not too late to stock up on bullets, powder, primers and learn to reload

borntxn
June 7, 2006, 06:20 PM
it's not too late to stock up on bullets, powder, primers and learn to reload

How long would you say it takes you to reload 500 7.62 rounds (or whatever your caliber of choice is).

taliv
June 7, 2006, 06:38 PM
i don't shoot 7.62. but it takes me about an hour and 20 min to reload 1000 rnds of 5.56. if i were giong to take a whole day and just crank through 10,000 rnds, i'd prob be a little more efficient. prob 10 hrs.

ping.223
June 20, 2007, 03:58 AM
i read on the net somewhere that the us gov. is selling the iraqi gov like 400 million rnds. 7.62 and .223/5.56 also like 170 thousand genades a whole pakage worth like 502 million

chris in va
June 20, 2007, 04:21 AM
Way to go Ping. The thread is over a year old, and on your first post no less!

Carl N. Brown
June 20, 2007, 03:46 PM
Well the thread was awakened 7 Jun by borntxn actually.

Friday I bought a 100 rounds Wolf for $21 about what I
paid same time last year.

What is the solid story on 7.62x39 availibility in the near
and far future?

Big Daddy K
June 20, 2007, 05:41 PM
I didnt read every thread so this may have been covered.

Midway has Wolf for $4.48 a box.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=733337

Lonestar.45
June 20, 2007, 05:56 PM
Back when I started this thread over a year ago, it was during the midst of the dark days of the shortage.

Not so anymore, 7.62x39 is plentiful, even if it is still x2 as expensive as it used to be several years back.

Smallwood
June 21, 2007, 02:39 AM
I have both an AK-47 and a type56 chinease rifle,both shoot 762x39 ammo,years ago we ran into this same problem ,we had a big ammo shortage as the gun store and shops claimed it was all being used up at the war ,but if you were willing to pay there $299.00 price for 223 ammo they had all you wanted ,also if you wanted to pay there $279.00 a case of a 1000 for 762 ammo you could get all you wanted ,well I have a cure for that crap I have been buying all reloadable ammo for awhile ,winchester brass and remington brass reload really well with a turret loader,Dont use the 762X39 bullets ,all you have to use in the 308 bullet which is almost the exact same ,if i remember right its a very,very tiny bit smaller ,so we always made sure we crimped the bullet ,they shoot very well ,never any problems at all and its much cheaper than paying the rip off prices now,I generally get at least 3 reloads out of my brass trim the brass back down to size and remove the primers,clean the primer pocker and it is critical to make sure you get the proper amount of a powder load in each shell,on a turret reloader you can get going so fast if you do not keep an eye on this you could get a short load and a bullet stuck in your barrel ,so monitor all reloading very carefully,esp the powder,bullets also have to be seated at the right hieght which is easy i keep a dummy round around to measure every few rounds to keep my accuracy up,the 308 bullets work great and never jam ,and always clean the brass in a viberator with a corn cob material ,and your brass comes out like new.and cycles thru your gun well .308 bullets are very cheap bulk so buy them reload them and have a ball shooting cheap better quality ammo ,also its better to accidentily put a little to much powder in than not enough ,to much gives you a hot load and kicks that crimped in bullet out fast and loud ,everyone will know you have hot loads,to little powder load can be a disaster ,the bullet sits in the case as the powder burns and builds pressure up in the case untill it either kicks it out into your barrel where it gets stuck ,which can result in you blowing up your gun when the next round comes along ,or if your lucky it will just spit it out the end of your gun and it will drop on the ground,this is a common pratice when 762X39 ammo comes short and eventually the price drops back down after everyone starts to do it,if you have any questions on how to do it ill be more than happy to help if i can ,I have been a gun collector fo 30 plus years ,and I started my markmenship in the boyscouts and now have quite a collection of firearms all makes and models mostly military and other assorted ww2 gear,as it catchs on 308 ammo bullets will dry up,have a great day smal

aquapong
June 21, 2007, 03:51 PM
Aim's got several kinds in stock. I bought a case of the Tiger stuff. It seems accurate enough.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_7_62x39.html

I've got 2k to 2.5k put away yet, so I'm good for a while.

Carl N. Brown
June 21, 2007, 06:46 PM
It might be a good idea to keep this thread open with
postings of actual prices per quantity, and shortage
rumors when they fly, if only for historical purposes.

KrankyKraut
June 22, 2007, 10:10 AM
It's actually the 8mm Mauser surplus that has disappeared. That's my real problem. I hope the laws of supply and demand will motivate someone in Eastern Europe to look a little harder for some overlooked cases.

dstorm1911
June 22, 2007, 11:26 AM
Krankykraut, there are millions of cases no looking required sitting in Bosnia, the problem is the BATF here isn't approving the form 6s to import surplus ammo....... Imorters have had already approved form 6s canceled with huge loses of $$ so nobody is taking the chance and most of the Nato member countries have now placed laws in effect prohibiting the export of any military surplus ammo from theire countries to anything but legitimate government Armies as part of the UNs crack down on the huge stockpiles of surplus ammo being used by "terrorist" etc.... if ya didn't already stock up then your pretty much either at the mercy of commercial ammo makers or ya needa get heavy into reloading, I was in Bosnia repping for a large importer last year when 120 million rnds of 8 mm got bought by the UN to be destroyed and that was only a fraction of what was available there are "caves" the size of aircraft hangers full of the stuff as well as 7.62x39 etc... as soon as I got home I bought the last 3 pallets of 50s Yugo Century had or ever will get.... By the time it gets low I will have gotten that caliber up to full speed for loading right now am accumulating brass for 7.62x39

For those who think the war in Aphgan and Iraq are the reasons for ammo prices heres something to consider, the Chinese have billions of rnds of surplus ammo sitting in warehouses and caves as do ALL of the former Warsaw pact countries it cannot be imported into the USA because it is steel core however there is nothing preventing any of it from being used in other countries such as Iraq and Afgan etc... and it does get used as its sold on the world surplus market millions of rounds per day so why would Wolf etc... be the only ammo supplier being used? The prices are being jacked up simply because Americans have shown they are willing to pay the higher prices...... but they can't exactly tell ya that that might trigger Americans into refusing to pay the higher prices so instead ya are told the prices are the result of raw material costs or supplying Iraq and Afgan etc..... in the meanwhile billions of rnds of Surplus from all these other countries are being sold and traded etc.....

15 years running around the world visiting arsenals and looking at ammo stockpiles right up to last year has pretty much shown me how lil we can trust what the commercial ammo manufacturers want to tell us...... but it doesn't change the availability here at home and now with the BATF not approving form 6s (our governments way of appeasing the UN without "pissin off" the voters by openly going along with the UNs demands, as it requires no vote no lobbying etc... the BATF has sole descretion when it comes to approving a form 6 for import of ammo or gun parts etc... and without the form 6 it can't be imported no appeal either as they don't have to give any reason for denying a form 6, Importers are trying to fight this new trend but its falling on deaf ears as who do ya complain to...... we have a republican president who cannot be re-elected isn't he sposed to be the one to look out for our Second amendment rights? About the only way to convince the BATF to get back into approving the form 6s is by the pres callin up the director and tellin him he needs to start gettin em approved but.... not much ya can use for pressure to get the current Pres to do so......... re-election isn't an issue and if we get Democrats in in 08 do ya think Hillary is going to call up the director and tell him he better start approving the form 6s to get more ammo imported into the USA or do ya think they are gonna wanna follow even closer to what the UN wishes are? Get a Grass roots non-proffesional politition in for pres? O.K so do ya really see that happening in the next 15 or so years? And if by some miricle it did happen do ya think callin up the BATF director his/her first week would be at the top of the agenda?

Either stock up on reloading supplies OR build ya some really pretty wall displays to put the guns ya can no longer shoot in so they can at least be used as ornaments cause they really don't make very good clubs and while some are o.k as garden stakes they don't serve well as fence posts....... :(

jlbraun
June 22, 2007, 12:00 PM
The big problem is that everything is related somehow to energy costs.

Marginally correct. The main cause is our overseas adventuring (thanks Bush!) and the consequent overspending causing a drop in the value of the dollar. Right now, we're competing against the world market with a devalued dollar, so ammo is going to cost more.

Carl N. Brown
June 22, 2007, 02:36 PM
I thought that improper purchasers of ammunition--mercenaries, rebels,
terrorists, black marketeers, etc--got phony "end user certificates"
by disguising purchases as legitimate government purchasers.
How often have "terrorists" actually acquired arms or ammo by
passing theselves off as commercial sporting purchasers?

MKEITH
June 23, 2007, 01:30 AM
It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that when i bought my SKS 4 years ago, i also bought 10,000 rounds at 72.00 a thousand. It makes me want to cry knowing that this time last year 5.56 was cheaper than dirt, and i only bought my AR 2 months ago.

Smallwood
June 23, 2007, 01:43 AM
oh yea,if anythings wrong just plame it on bush everyone else does ,if my coffee spills all over me ,I dont scream cusswords,I scream bushwords and really loud,if i get cut off driveing my kids to school ,thats bushs fault ,and i scream out my windo you son of a bush,then I drive past the gas stations and see that gas price so high ,first thing out of my mouth is that sorryassed bushy boycaused all this,,I stub my toe ,it had to be that sorry assed george bush made the curbs to ahort,for crying out loud,when are you foolish people going to quit blameing bush for any and all of your trivial little problems of this country on bush,Actually if you look at the deficet he has cut it in half now for several years now reduceing our natinol debt bettering our economy thru the tax breaks he gave us all that freed up more money to spend or invest and when taxes were paid on that money to the govt it reduced the national debit in half,When since we had the terrorist accack at the trade center have we been attacked ,not once since busch has been at the wheel,clinton let the world trade center get attacked and did nothing about it at all ,clinton never gave us our national healthcare program he promised with two terms to do it we are still waiting,he was two busy with intern training which aparently he handled that training personely,No wonder we got no heath care,now are any of you willing to give the clintons a 3 and fourth shot at it? LOL yea right I trust the clintons about as much as i trust Fidel Castro,jim

Eightball
June 23, 2007, 02:06 AM
I thought I had a shortage of 7.62x39......
.......and then while moving my reloading bench into the house, I stumbled upon a box of 1,000 rounds of Wolf that I had stored away and forgotten about.

And I have about 760 rounds at work for 4.99 a box of 20.

Shortage is in the eye of the beholder :D

dstorm1911
June 23, 2007, 02:27 AM
hell eightball I shoot that much in a week! Thats a seriouse shortage!! ;)

RWMC
June 23, 2007, 02:47 AM
Maybe we should start sitting along the curb at busy street intersections, holding signs that say, "Will work for 7.62x39 ammo"!

yenchisks
June 23, 2007, 02:48 AM
if we could only open up the chinese market we d have plenty

RWMC
June 23, 2007, 04:09 AM
Yeah, the good ole chinese ammo of days gone past. Now they have made their own indigineous military rifle (a 5.7 mm, I think). Funny thing though, the ammo was designed by the chinese to purposely defeat U.S. type body armor. And here I thought we were all buddy-buddy with the chinese. If you look through walmart at all of the made-in-china labels, you would have thought that China and the U.S. were as close as Kissing-cousins. And our government is going to continue to lull the vast majority of Americans to sleep with the rhetoric that the Soviet Union is collapsed, and that communisim is dead. I'm afraid our country won't wake up to this fact untill the day we are on the receiving end of joint chinese-Russian pre-emptive nuclear strike, just a large enough attack to spank our country into keeping its' nose out of where it didn't belong. Ever wonder why all of a sudden just in the past month the Russians are getting really pissed off at Pres. Bush about setting up a missile defense program in old ex-soviet satellite countries to protect the U.S. from "rouge terrorist states". The Russians right now have enough ICBM's to effectively take-out 90% of our military, period. China is growing in tremendous strides militarily. This year alone, china has increased its military spending 17%. Are they fighting a war?? Is someone planning to attack them?? They are in the middle of a military build-up that is at a greater percent than that of Germany in the 1930's. They are in need of dependable oil supplies to keep their massive industrial revolution going. Could some Middle Eastern country be making deals with china, say for example, we give you the oil you want, you take care of the pesky U.S. for us one day. Yep, China is using the U.S. like some cheap whore. A good-time is being had by both parties involved, untill one day when they get all they want out of us, and they grow annoyed and pop a cap on us. Heck, ole Bill clinton years ago signed into law a stipulation that says the U.S. will absorb a 1st nuclear strike before we retaliate, and Pres. Bush has never rescended that order!! Maybe we could convince the State Dept. to allow the Chinese to ship over say, 10 ships full of cheap 7.62x39 ammo, and the chinese could really ice the cake by making the projectiles lead free, tungsten core ( they have the greatest tungsten supply in the world ). This would even make the enviromentalist happy. We all then would again be happy, untill the day our country receives the mushroom cloud - sucker punch, and then we will wake up and realize how futile it was to stock pile our ammo and purchase state of the art S.H.T.F. rifles, only to feel sickly unable to protect our loved ones from an enemy we can't see, who is shooting at us from the other side of the globe. Ammo, ammo, my kingdom for some ammo! ( Paraphrased from King Richard the Lion Hearted during the crusades, A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse! ) SORRY, I GUESS I REALLY WENT OFF ON THE DEEP END OF THINGS HERE.

wacki
June 23, 2007, 01:05 PM
What I find most interesting is that the wholesalers we have talked to say that the price of ammo from Wolf has not gone up inordinately considering the increased costs in shipping.

If this is true then I guess gun owners need to support trains and other forms of mass transit. Trains are an order of magnitude more efficient than trucks. I'd be afraid to see what ammo will be like if gas hits $6 a gallon the way some people think it will.

dstorm1911
June 23, 2007, 03:26 PM
Wacki, then ya'd have to #1 get the railroads to charge less #2 get the federal laws prohibiting shipping ammunition by any means other than truck lifted......

I own a trucking company, the fuel prices are not doing anything new really, they aren't as good as 4-5 years ago but its not real bad in fact we stopped transporting regular freight entirely because the rates are way to low, to run my trucks I need $3.00 per mile at least which was the standard rate for the last 6 years now there is so much competition that the rate has dropped to as low as $0.65 per mile!!! So tell me how is your ammo costs higher as a result of higher shipping costs when the shipping costs are at an all time low for the decade? We now only transport specialized loads (oversize or super heavy etc...) as we simply cannot compete against all the big freight companies Like Swift, Yellow, Snieder, Dick Simon, Werner etc... who are running a hundred thousand trucks with fresh outa driving school drivers (yea thats confidence inspiring huh, I don't know how many of my trailers get hit in truckstops cause these guys can't drive!) They are running super low performance 65 mph trucks getting 7-8 mpg with drivers gettin paind a whopping $0.32 per mile so they have forced the freight rates down far below the cost of shipping by train.......

It cracks me up every time I hear someone claim the cost of shipping has went up and this is why this or that costs more...... in reality the cost of Fuel has went up but not really much more than we are used to paying but still enough that when combined with the lowest ever shipping rates it really sucks!

I don't know who would be getting all those extra $ paid for shipping but it sure isn't the trucking companies that are actually doing the transporting! Outa all the years I've owned this company the last year has been the all time low for shipping rates compared to the cost of operating the trucks...

SSN Vet
June 23, 2007, 11:20 PM
Midway has it in this months catalog for $165/1,000.

I bought five boxes with my order last month, so I know they're shipping.

nvshooter
June 25, 2007, 02:28 AM
I bought two each 1,000-round cartons for $189 plus tax at the hardware store in my hometown. I won't shoot it. Rather, I am waiting to use it when the "light blue helmets" come marching down Main Street to take our guns away on the orders of a certain Senator from New York turned Pesident. That's gonna be fun...

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