(AK) Family of man shot by pastor struggles to understand why


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spacemanspiff
April 27, 2003, 02:16 AM
http://www.adn.com/front/story/3016540p-3040411c.html

By ZAZ HOLLANDER
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: April 26, 2003)

Big Lake Community Chapel on South Big Lake Road was the scene of a shooting Thursday morning. The church pastor shot and killed two men he caught burglarizing the chapel, Alaska State Troopers said.

Chris Palmer's family spent Friday trying to figure out how he ended up dead near the Big Lake Community Chapel.

The 31-year-old Big Lake man and 23-year-old Francis M. Jones IV of Wasilla died of gunshot wounds Thursday after the chapel's pastor interrupted them burglarizing the small church and shot them, Alaska State Troopers said.

The Rev. Phil Mielke called 911 around 5 a.m. to say he had shot at two intruders.

Palmer died in a strip of birch trees just past the chapel's tidy lawn. Jones died within hours at a house on Beaver Lake Road where he had fled.

Members of Palmer's family gathered Friday at his mother's home in Sutton, said Teri Fischer, Palmer's sister. The family is struggling to reconcile the fact that her brother thought to rob a church, and then was shot by a pastor, Fischer said.

"It's just that a house of God should be a place where people in my brother's situation should go for help," Fischer said.

Palmer struggled with drug and alcohol addiction for years, and had sporadic contact with his family, including his three sons, his sister said. His oldest son turns 14 today. His youngest son lives in California and never met his father.

The only reason her brother would rob a church at dawn would be to buy drugs, Fischer said.

"My mother's initial reaction was the man was protecting what was his," she said. "The more we hear, I don't know."

Palmer's stepfather, Jim Novak, said 14-year-old Adam Palmer questions why some people in Big Lake seem to assume that because his dad broke into the church, he also is responsible for other local burglaries.

On Thursday, a number of locals expressed frustration with a series of break-ins and vandalism over the winter. Since the shootings, the pastor and his family have received numerous sympathetic phone calls from Big Lake residents, said Helen Mielke, his wife.

"The phone has been ringing," she said. "We just appreciate there's a lot of support from the community."

Neither she nor her husband would discuss the shootings further. Troopers Capt. Dennis Casanovas would not say whether Palmer and Jones were inside the church when they were shot or if they were armed.

Casanovas did say that Palmer "had exited the chapel," according to a description he received from investigators. "He actually made it into some woods nearby and almost to a roadway. He ultimately fell there."

He said he expected the investigation to last several weeks.

Once finished, the troopers will send their report to the Palmer District Attorney's office. The DA will decide whether the shooting was justified.

Alaska statute defines the use of deadly force during a burglary as justified "when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be a burglary ... occurring in an occupied dwelling or building."

If the pastor was in the chapel, his presence would mean it was occupied, according to Mary Ann Henry, supervisor of the violent crimes unit in the Anchorage District Attorney's Office.

Henry would not comment on the specifics of the case. A person could be justified in shooting an unarmed burglar, she said. The burglar wouldn't have to be inside the premises.

"It's just necessary (a person) reasonably believed that shooting them was necessary in order to stop a burglary," she said.

Roman Kalytiak, the Palmer district attorney, said his office had approved a search warrant request for the church, but otherwise has had minimal involvement with the case so far.

His office two years ago prosecuted a Wasilla man who fired at a pair of burglary suspects.

Kevin M. Monson, then 33, spotted a man stealing from a van parked outside his home. The man and a second suspect fled in their van.

Monson pursued the pair and cornered them on a dead-end road. He stepped out of his vehicle with a shotgun and attempted to stop them. The van drove past Monson and he fired, shattering the rear window.

Monson resumed the chase and caught up with the men when the van ran out of gas. Troopers received a call and found Monson holding the men at gunpoint.

Prosecutors charged Monson with third-degree assault, a felony. In a plea agreement, Monson pleaded no contest to reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor, and was sentenced to six months probation.

The Associated Press contributed to this story. Reporter Zaz Hollander can be reached at zhollander@adn.com.



The family is struggling to reconcile the fact that her brother thought to rob a church, and then was shot by a pastor, Fischer said.
"It's just that a house of God should be a place where people in my brother's situation should go for help," Fischer said.
The only reason her brother would rob a church at dawn would be to buy drugs, Fischer said.

last night when the local news reported on this, they stated that an individual could NOT use deadly force to protect property, only in self defense. now the DA's office is saying that:
A person could be justified in shooting an unarmed burglar, she said. The burglar wouldn't have to be inside the premises.
"It's just necessary (a person) reasonably believed that shooting them was necessary in order to stop a burglary," she said.

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spacemanspiff
April 27, 2003, 02:20 AM
this could be rather interesting, and i'd like to find the statute that states deadly force is justifiable in a burglary. we were told during our CCW class that we couldnt be justified if we saw someone breaking into say, our garage that is not attached to our house and we were in the house at the time. if they come into where you are, thats justifiable. but this statute seems to give us the ability to protect property with deadly force.

unless the laws contradict each other in some insane way?

Skunkabilly
April 27, 2003, 02:37 AM
Crime is risky. Drrrrrr......... :rolleyes:

voilsb
April 27, 2003, 03:21 AM
I know I was told false information when I got my Oregon CHL. the paperwork with it says it's illegal to carry in various locations, but none of them are prohibited by law. they're just listed as places you're not allowed to carry.

I also know in oregon it's legal to use deadly force to stop a burglary. here's the actual law: 161.219 a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwellingand burglary is defined asa person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.(first degree includes if the buglar has a deadly weapon or attempts to cause physical harm to another person)

Wildalaska
April 27, 2003, 03:23 AM
What pisses me off about the story is the Anchorage Daily News usual whine for the "poor" criminal mindset...recently they glorified the woman who murdered the former supt of the Alaska Stae troopers and before that they spent days besmirching the reputation of a trooper who shot some skell who tried to run him down..

Of course its a one newspaper town......and trust me it isnt the voice of Alaskans....

WildfoxnewsAlaska:fire:

Greg L
April 27, 2003, 08:35 AM
Someone needs to point out to the family that their son/brother was a thief and that getting shot is just an occupational hazzard :banghead: .

Greg

TallPine
April 27, 2003, 09:01 AM
If the pastor was in the chapel, his presence would mean it was occupied, according to Mary Ann Henry, supervisor of the violent crimes unit in the Anchorage District Attorney's Office.

Well, I'm glad they figured that one out ... :rolleyes:

stevelyn
April 27, 2003, 10:38 AM
Desecrate a church/mosque/temple/synagogue/shrine or break into a home or business and you should expect no less than bad things happening.
Besides how stupid do you have to be to continue a crime spree in a state where about 95% of the population is armed? With big guns!

Hey it wasn't quite lightning bolts from the sky that hit these fools, but there were bright flashes and sounds that echoed like thunder when those lead pills hit them. Maybe not as decisive or dramatic as lightning bolts, but they do get the job done.:D

Bruce H
April 27, 2003, 12:40 PM
Sniffing for a wrongful death suit maybe?

COHIBA
April 27, 2003, 12:41 PM
that should cut down on local burglaries.
where do i send a donation.

spacemanspiff
April 28, 2003, 01:29 PM
http://www.adn.com/alaska_ap/story/3015504p-3040144c.html

Troopers say chapel shooting investigation could take weeks

By DAN JOLING, Associated Press Writer

BIG LAKE (April 25, 8:10 p.m. ADT) - The investigation into the shooting deaths of two suspected burglars by a pastor at a Big Lake Church will take as long as several weeks, according to the top Alaska State Trooper in Palmer.
Troopers are continuing to gather information and waiting for complete autopsy and toxicology reports, Capt. Dennis Casanovas said Friday.

Pastor Phillip Mielke, 44, called troopers at about 5 a.m. Thursday to report he had fired at two men he said were burglarizing the Big Lake Community Chapel.

The body of Christopher Lee Palmer, 31, of Big Lake was found in the ditch of a dirt road several dozen feet from a side entrance to the church.

The body of Francis Marion Jones IV, 23, of Wasilla, was found at a home on Beaver Lake Road about 6 to 8 miles away from the church, where Jones apparently drove after he was shot. A woman who lives at the home had called 911, reporting that an acquaintance had come to her home suffering from gunshot wounds.

Autopsies on the two men were performed Friday. Casanovas said troopers had received some results, but that no more information would be released. He said the investigation would take several weeks because of the complexity of the case.

"Our investigative facts and documents will then go to the Palmer district attorney for their review," Casanovas said.

He refused to say whether Palmer or Jones were armed, how many times they were shot, or whether they were inside or outside the church when they were hit.

Big Lake is an unincorporated community on the shore of Big Lake, 13 miles southwest of Wasilla.

The modest wood frame church, painted red, stands between Fish Creek and the Big Lake South State Recreation Site at Mile 5 of South Big Lake Road. The church parking lot has enough room for perhaps 20 cars packed tightly.

Mielke and his family live on a wooded lot across South Big Lake Road, in a home not easily visible from the chapel.

On the advice of his attorney, Mielke is not speaking to reporters.

Residents of a home behind the church heard no shots. Cindy DeRemer said she was unaware of the shooting until a neighbor called about 7 a.m. Thursday asking why the dirt road running alongside the church was blocked by troopers.

Troopers kept the road closed off until after 7 p.m. Palmer's body was found in the ditch on that side road, Lake View Drive, about 35 paces from the steps to the church's rear entrance.

The doors of the church showed no indication of damage, but cardboard covered one broken window.

Palmer prosecutors will determine whether Mielke will face charges.

Under Alaska law, deadly force may be used for self defense against death, serious physical injury, sexual assault or robbery.

A private person may not use deadly force if he knows that, with complete personal safety, he can avoid using deadly force by retreating. There is no duty to retreat if a person is on premises that he owns or leases and is not the initial aggressor.

A person may use deadly force in making an arrest or terminating an escape when the person believes it's necessary to arrest a person who has committed or attempted a felony that involved the use of force against a person, or is attempting escape from custody while possessing a firearm.

Roman Kalytiak, the Palmer district attorney, said his office had approved a search warrant request for the church, but otherwise has had minimal involvement with the case so far.

His office two years ago prosecuted a Wasilla man who fired at a pair of burglary suspects.

Kevin M. Monson, then 33, spotted a man stealing from a van parked outside his home. The man and a second suspect fled in their van.

Monson pursued the pair and cornered them on a dead-end road. He stepped out of his vehicle with a shotgun and attempted to stop them. The van drove past Monson and he fired, shattering the rear window.

Monson resumed the chase and caught up with the men when the van ran out of gas. Troopers received a call and found Monson holding the men at gunpoint.

Prosecutors charged Monson with third-degree assault, a felony. In a plea agreement, Monson pleaded no contest to reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor, and was sentenced to six months probation.

Carlos Cabeza
April 28, 2003, 02:47 PM
Yep, occupational hazard.
"Yes Georgia, sometimes electricians get electrocuted.":rolleyes:

Porter Rockwell
April 28, 2003, 03:53 PM
That is, We'll tell you what happened after We Decide What happened!
Rumour has it that one or both of the deceased were back shot outside the church.
Wildalaska, Gottlieb had a far from sterling reputation as you well know. Rumour has it that the female government employee underling that capped him was one of many Gottlieb had taken advantage of.

spacemanspiff
April 28, 2003, 04:57 PM
his personal life may have been marred, but according to his family (my mother and Godfrey were related btw) he had reconciled with his wife and was attempting to be a good husband.
could you call his murder a crime of passion? something done in the heat of the moment? i doubt it. his murderer waited hours for him to return home, long enough to have a book on hand to read and to gain access to Godfreys handgun with which she used to kill him, attempt to kill his wife and then kill herself.

our news media up here does sometimes take the wrong side, but when it comes to the legal use of firearms they usually do the right thing.

Standing Wolf
April 28, 2003, 05:15 PM
"It's just that a house of God should be a place where people in my brother's situation should go for help," Fischer said.

He had 31 years to go to a church for help. No sympathy.

TheeBadOne
April 30, 2003, 12:40 PM
Rumour has it that one or both of the deceased were back shot outside the church.
Now there's a mouthful :D

Blackhawk
April 30, 2003, 04:48 PM
Family of man shot by pastor struggles to understand why What's so hard to understand about "shot while committing a felony"? :rolleyes:

spacemanspiff
May 7, 2003, 01:00 PM
ADN printed my letter to the editor in todays paper, concerning the outrage over a pastor using deadly force in a church against bad guys.

check it here: http://www.adn.com/letters/

and since that link will probably go to new letters tomorrow, heres what i wrote:

Alaska's sensible gun laws protect citizens and keep crooks guessing

Where do you feel safe? Crime is committed in our communities every day by criminals who don't care about who they victimize, and they should receive no mercy when they are caught. The two criminals who were shot by the pastor in Big Lake left family and loved ones when they died. That's a tragedy. But if they really loved their families, wouldn't they have stopped living as criminals and worked at becoming productive members of society?

Responsible citizens who are armed are what keeps Alaskans safe. Law enforcement officers are not able to prevent every crime from happening; often they have to mop up the mess left behind.

We should all be thankful that our state has true common-sense laws regarding firearms and that responsible citizens realize the need to exercise their rights to defend their lives by carrying concealed handguns or even openly carrying them wherever it is legal to do so.

More than 75,000 concealed handgun licenses have been issued in this state. Two thirds of Alaska's population is over the age of 21. Those who are 21 or older and have no criminal background are eligible for receiving a concealed handgun license. One in 5.3 adults in this state has been issued one. Maybe not all of them carry, but how easily can you determine if someone is a potential victim or an armed citizen? Keep criminals guessing.

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