M1 Garand ammo


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emmie
May 23, 2006, 12:23 PM
can't find M2 ball,and not cmp member,so what factory fmj ammo can I use in my rifle?
will be reloading,but want a benchmark of how these shoot first.

emmie

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Marion Cobretti
May 23, 2006, 12:26 PM
Can't remember which offhand, but either Cheaperthandirt or Sportsmans guide had some Korean m2 in stock.
If you are shooting a bunch, it might be worth it to look into CMP. I just bought a case of Lake City over the weekend and it came out to 20 cents a round.

monsternav
May 23, 2006, 12:35 PM
There is no such thing as CMP "membership". There are some very easy requirements to meet buy a rifle from them, but you can buy anything else off of their site (ammo included). They are selling some Olympic ammo for resonable prices besides the Lake City.

carlrodd
May 23, 2006, 12:44 PM
a little off-topic, but.....

i have a box of ammo that someone gave me for my garand. the box says m-2 .30 cal, and has korean script on it. the bottom of the brass gives no indication as to what it is. is this indeed 30-06 ammunition? i certainly won't be shooting it until i'm sure.

monsternav
May 23, 2006, 12:48 PM
The Koreans made lots of .30-06. What does the headstamp read?

ocabj
May 23, 2006, 01:45 PM
There is no such thing as CMP "membership". There are some very easy requirements to meet buy a rifle from them, but you can buy anything else off of their site (ammo included). They are selling some Olympic ammo for resonable prices besides the Lake City.

The CMP does not sell Olympic ammunition. They sell Greek HXP M2 ball. There is a huge difference.

HXP = good. Olympic = bad.

MechAg94
May 23, 2006, 05:09 PM
The two Korean headstamps I know of are KA and PS. The KA is 70's production and corrosive. The PS is later production (80's?) and supposedly non-corrosive.

I haven't seen PS head stamp for sale in a while.


Either way, call the CMP and see what you need to do to order ammo. I bet it is not much at all. Maybe verify age only. It would be worth it to get some relatively inexpensive quality ammo.

monsternav
May 24, 2006, 12:03 AM
ocabj:
:o
I know that. For the first time in my life I typed faster than I could think :) (I don't think very fast, and usually type even slower).
Doh!

Sunray
May 24, 2006, 03:51 AM
Join the Garand Collectors Assoc.($25 per year, I think) or load your own ammo. Go to and shoot the required matches anyway. You'll meet lots of great people and shooting matches is great fun. Placing doesn't matter.
Reloading makes the endless search for ammo go away. Use bullets weighing between 150 and 180 grains with IMR 4895 or IMR4064. Hunting bullets weighing 165 grains seem to give the best hunting accuracy. 168 grain match bullets(match bullets are not cheap) for target shooting. Full length resizing every timeis required. No big deal Just get FL dies.
"...is this indeed 30-06 ammunition?..." Yep, but clean as if it's corrosive.

carlrodd
May 24, 2006, 07:57 PM
The Koreans made lots of .30-06. What does the headstamp read?

it reads:

PS
79

brentwal
May 24, 2006, 10:54 PM
PMC makes .30-06 M2 ball ammo. The stock # is 3006C IIRC.

monsternav
May 25, 2006, 12:31 AM
PS 79 = Poongsan Metal Corporation 1979.

Generally held to be non-corrosive according to all I have read (this is internet knowledge though, treat it for what you paid for it). Personally, I would would clean as if corrosive, unless you get an answer from a more knowledgable person.

cracked butt
May 25, 2006, 12:40 AM
If you have the means to reload, it is the way to go with the M1. M2 ball ammo will never shoot anywhere near as well as a good handload that you work up.

Diomed
May 25, 2006, 02:57 AM
What's the deal with buying non-firearms from CMP? I looked through the website but couldn't find a definite answer.

I'd love to get a few tins of that HXP...

Swampy
May 25, 2006, 06:56 AM
What's the deal with buying non-firearms from CMP? I looked through the website but couldn't find a definite answer.

I'd love to get a few tins of that HXP...

To be eligible to buy items (non-firearm) from the CMP you still must be a member of a CMP affiliate Club or org. There is a full listing of them on the CMP website at http://www.odcmp.com

No, the NRA is not a CMP affiliate.

Yes, just about every state Rifle association is......

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever

monsternav
May 25, 2006, 07:24 AM
Requirements page:

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/eligibility_requirements.htm

They do not have the easiest website to get around in.

carlrodd
May 25, 2006, 12:47 PM
do you know what grain that is? the round is larger than the remington stuff i have.

Haymaker
May 25, 2006, 01:14 PM
Will be taking handloads built on FA61 Match brass with IMR 4895 (backed off 5% from max) & Sierra 165gr BT bullets. = It's what the rifle likes:D

Limeyfellow
May 25, 2006, 01:40 PM
Hehe its not always so easy to qualify for cmp. We legal immigrants in the US get shafted.

KIDGLOCK
May 25, 2006, 03:26 PM
Heres some of my new stuff.

Big Larry
May 25, 2006, 05:25 PM
I'm curious. I've been contemplating getting an M-1 from CMP. M-1 Garand is 7.62, right? Isn't that a 30-06? Can regular Remington 30-06 ammo that you'd use for hunting, be used in an M-1 Garand??

If not, what are the reasons? Don't be hard on me, I'd just like to know.

odessastraight
May 25, 2006, 05:41 PM
Big Lary, Yes, the M-1 Garand is .30-06 (well some are 7.62 Nato). The thing is that the port pressure to function the Garand properly must be within a limited range. Most commercial loads for the 30-06 are not at all within this pressure range. Many people have bent their operating rods by not being careful to shoot ammo that duplicates the pressures of M-2 ball ammo. IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 are two of the powders used to duplicate the loads the Garand is designed to shoot. It's not just overall pressure that's involved. The speed the pressure peaks is more important... A load with a slow burning power will damage the Garand.

MechAg94
May 25, 2006, 05:49 PM
The PS headstamp ammo I have was advertised as "non-corrosive" when I bought it last summer from AIM Surplus.

The M1 Garand shoots 30.06. However, it was designed for WWII military ammo. Higher pressure hunting loads used in many of today's bolt actions can damange the op rod or so I hear. I have heard that most hunting ammo can be used, but stick with ~150 grain bullets. Others can get more specific.

Jmurman
May 25, 2006, 06:57 PM
You can join CMP through The Garand Collectors Assoc. Dues are $25 per year and the quarterly magazine is great!

To qualify there are many state clubs/associations that has already been posted. Now, if you're former military a DD214 will surfice. The process for buying a Garand is pretty siomple and straight forward. Print off their order form and go to your bank and get your DL notorized.

I haven't bought any ammo from CMP yet, but being a member, it shouldn't be a big deal.

The Greek is sold with en blocs and bandoleers and is very reasonable...as is the Lake City (without clips or bandoleers)

Enjoy the Garand, it's a mighty fine shootin iron.

Big Larry
May 26, 2006, 09:48 AM
Okay, so modern hunting cartridges are too "hot" for the M-1. Makes sense. That's what I needed to know. Thanks.

One more question: With CMP, what grade is best for a "nice" shootable weapon?

monsternav
May 26, 2006, 11:12 AM
carlrodd: I have seen M2 ball variously described between 147-152 grain bullets. I have some Core-Loct's (sp?) that are 165, and are noticably shorter in overall length. Must be some combo of bullet construction, seating depth, etc.

Larry: "Service Grade" have the best muzzle wear/throat erosion numbers, so should be the best shooters. I believe they are all in issue-able condition, regardless of Grade.

Big Larry
May 26, 2006, 11:45 AM
Thanks Monster.

MechAg94
May 26, 2006, 12:12 PM
Also, plan on buying one of the new stainless op rod springs. One of my Garands had a lot of problems until I got a new spring. Thinks like the multi-tool and GI cleaning kit are useful as well.

Make sure you look up some sites on properly cleaning and greasing the rifle. They use grease, not just oil.

Daniel T
May 26, 2006, 02:33 PM
There is some newly-manufactured .30-06 that is loaded at M2 ball levels. American Eagle .30-06 springs to mind.

ocabj
May 26, 2006, 03:18 PM
There is some newly-manufactured .30-06 that is loaded at M2 ball levels. American Eagle .30-06 springs to mind.

The red box Federal American Eagle commercial/retail ammunition has not been officially confirmed by Federal to be equivalent to M2 as far as velocity and pressure curve are concerned. People have noted that when they called Federal to see if Federal American Eagle .30-06 ammo is M1 Garand safe, Federal recommended that it should not be used in M1 Garands. Federal does make a special run of new ammo for the CMP that is Garand safe. This ammo is only available through the CMP since it is a special order item.

pwrtool45
May 26, 2006, 03:21 PM
According to an email I received from Ron Ives at ATK / Federal Cartridge regarding this very question: the American Eagle 150gr FMJ load "isn't made specifically for [the M1 Garand] but many people use it." He also states that the .30-06 Gold Medal Match has a propellant suitable for use in the Garand.

FWIW, straight from the horse's mouth.

I posted the above in this (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-152322.html) thread. Federal American Eagle isn't loaded exactly to M2 ball specification. (Not to be contradictory, just info I got from Federal Cartridge.)

--

Edited to add: Well, I'll be. In the 3 minutes it took me to find the old thread and type this up ocabj beat me to it. ::p

carlrodd
May 26, 2006, 03:22 PM
so are we saying that regular old, run of the mill, remington 150gr. FMJ 30-06 is a no-no?

ocabj
May 26, 2006, 03:26 PM
The most likely reason why Federal doesn't approve Fed AE ammo for Garand use is because they most likely use different powders from lot to lot. Most people don't understand that ammunition manufacturers mainly load for a specific velocity within SAAMI pressure limits. So for one month of production, Federal may be using powder X for their Fed AE ammo. But when powder X is gone, they may switch to powder Y the next month.

While this is perfectly fine for bolt guns and most gas guns, it is a problem for Garands because Garands need a very specific pressure curve to operate safely.

So while Fed AE may be loaded to M2 ball velocities, the pressure curve could be unsafe depending on what powder is in the ammo.

Swampy
May 26, 2006, 04:40 PM
so are we saying that regular old, run of the mill, remington 150gr. FMJ 30-06 is a no-no?

According to the previous posters, yes...... and I tend to agree with that assessment. When the manufacturer itself gives warning about their products "not being suitable" for a particular purpose I tend to heed the warnings.... especially since I really LIKE my M1's and don't see any need to shoot suspect ammo when I don't have to. Perfectly suitable M2 ball IS available, even if it's not down at your local Wally World, and proper reloading procedures for the M1 are easy enough for anyone capable of loading in the first place.

BTW, ocabj's short treatise above about differing powder lots in commercial ammo hits the nail on the head.

Just my thoughts,
Swampy

Garands forever

P-32
May 26, 2006, 04:52 PM
I understand the plain ole run of the mill Remington 150 FMJ green box is M-1 safe.

odessastraight
May 26, 2006, 06:43 PM
Handloading is just a good deal, overall, ...but especially so for the Garand. My H&R really likes the Sierra 168 grain Matchling bullet and 47 grains of IMR 4895. In fact, out of the 10 or so Garands I've loaded for they all shot that load better than any other I tried. With M2 ball starting to dry up...or at least getting older by the day...handloading makes even more sense.

I've alternated shooting groups with the above handload and LC M2 ball and...there was just no comparision (I mean, group differences in inches larger with ball at 200 yards). I only shoot ball when forced to by match rules.

I know lots of folks who load 190 grain Matchkings in their Garands for the longer ranges and have no problem. They all use either 4895 or 4064 powder and I think the correct burning rate of the powder is more important than the bullet weight. Remember that when the Garand came out in the late 1930s it was with M1 ball which had a heaver bullet (173 grain?) than M2 ball.

Swampy
May 26, 2006, 07:34 PM
I understand the plain ole run of the mill Remington 150 FMJ green box is M-1 safe.

Remington themselves won't confirm this..... and they DO go out of their way to say, "not recommended" when asked.

Some folks have had no problems with this load, sure...... and the contention all along by folks who know how commercial ammo is made is that different powders are used. Some will be safe for the M1, some won't.

What's that next lot of ammo you buy going to be loaded with???

Best regards,
Swampy

garands forever

eclancy
May 27, 2006, 11:36 AM
Gentlemen,
I have posted to my site Ordnance files dealing with the M1 and M2 Ball ammo. If you have time check it out.
Thanks again
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
Clancy

Titus
May 27, 2006, 12:16 PM
Here are the replies I got from some of the ammo manufacturers a couple weeks ago when I wrote to ask about using their 150 grain FMJ loads in a Garand.

Federal - We hear of many people that use it but it is not Mil Spec ammo with the correct primers or propellant.

Ammo is available from the CMP which we produced under contract to them.

Rem-UMC - The powders we use in the 30-06 are slower and we don?t recommend using our 30-06 products in a Garand.

Winchester - Yes you can shoot it in this firearm

byf43
May 27, 2006, 12:25 PM
My Garand loves my loads of 47.5 gr. of W-748 and the Sierra 168 gr. JHP, in LC72 brass. (Federal brass is just as good, too.)
Granted, my Garand has only been glass bedded and had a trigger job done to it, but, it shoots this load incredibly well.

Just my 2 worth.

Gunnutz13
May 27, 2006, 01:09 PM
I just recently purchased Korean military ammo from the Sportsmans Guide described as:

70's production ( mine was stamped 73 ) military ammo produced at Korea's Pusan government arsenal..."KA" headstamped 150 grain FMJ boattail bullet...boxer primed and mildly corrosive ( ? ) already loaded in Garand enbloc clips 8 round per...35 clips...280 rounds packed in a 30cal can for $49.97 ( 17.8 cents / rnd )...which shoots great out of my NOV 1944 built Springfield M1 Garand. I purchased $500 worth ( 10 cans )...and have already put 280 down range without a hiccup...the left over ammo can holds my bulk purchased WOLF .223 ammo for my M4 OLY...I recommend it ! :evil:

odessastraight
May 27, 2006, 01:35 PM
eclancy. I just read most of the files on your outstanding web site. Thank you for all of the cool information about the Garand.

I got the feeling that at least one of the previous posters was thinking that the "old" Garand just wasn't up to the pressures of modern .30-06 ammunition. That's not the case, rather it's a case of the pressure curve of most current factory .30-06 ammunition not being within the design parameters of the Garand's operating system. Just buy tons of IMR 4895. That powder has proven over the decades to be safe for the Garand and has been the choice for accuracy of countless match shooters (OK, there are other brands of proven powders too).

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