Issues with Remington 1858


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cbsbyte
May 23, 2006, 03:45 PM
I have a new Euroarms Remington 1858, which after disassembley for cleaning. I am unable to get the mainspring back into the frame. I reassembled the entire gun, then I put the top part below the hammer roller. I am using a screwdriver as a fulcrum, to line the spring up with the slot in the frame. It still will not line up properly with the slot even with using alot of force. The spring seems to be to long and slightly warped on the bottom causing it not to fit into the slot. Any suggestions?

Update: I called Euroarms of America to see if they could help. I found out they don't have any tech service. I am now going to call S&S firearms. Phil at S&S confirmed I am putting it together correctly and he is willing to take a look at it for me if I mail it to him. He said it should be pretty easy getting into the slot. Yeah right!!!. THe gun is so scratched up from the pliers slipping It looks like crap.

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Ferret
May 23, 2006, 04:18 PM
I need to use a pair of pliers to get enough of a grip on the end to bend it enough to get it into the slot, and I use a 1/4" dowel as a fulcrum.

Wwalstrom
May 23, 2006, 04:29 PM
Mine is no problem using just my fingers. There is a "trick" to it. I place the muzzle on my thigh, place the pointer thru pinky fingers of my left hand on the backstrap, stick my left thumb under the mainspring (for use as a fulcrum), then use the digits of my right hand, and simultaneously press down on the end of the spring (towards the muzzle) and inward (towards the spring slot). Sometimes, my method takes two or three attempts, but it works (for me). I used a pliers once ... needless to say, a new mainspring was ordered.

Ferret
May 23, 2006, 04:34 PM
I use a thin leather pad between the metal of the pliers and the metal of the spring. Forgot to mention that earlier.

cbsbyte
May 23, 2006, 04:42 PM
Thanks guys, but I think this is beyond me. I tired everything to get it to slide in and it will not line up. I am going to have to send it to Phil. I really believe the spring is too long.

sundance44s
May 23, 2006, 05:47 PM
If the spring came out its not too long ... when they are new they are pretty stiff .. do you have a pair of vise grip pliers ... they would help .. just adjust `em up and clamp about half of the bottom of the spring and bend and slide it in .. these type pliers won`t slip . ps... make sure the adjustment screw is out of the way too it could be what is stopping you from getting it seated into the grove ..... hope this helps .

cbsbyte
May 23, 2006, 05:51 PM
Yes, I am using pliers and a screwdriver for a fulcrum. I tried vice grips but they are too large to use. From the start the mainspring was very difficult to remove. I backed the tension screw out. But the spring had to be tapped out of the frame. It was under alot of pressure.

sjohns
May 23, 2006, 05:54 PM
unscrew that adjusting screw in the grip too, if you haven't.

sundance44s
May 23, 2006, 06:07 PM
A smaller pair of vise grips are in order .. some are too large .. i was lucky i have one of each size .. the smaller ones work better for this .. and probally cheaper than the shipping the gun back .

sundance44s
May 23, 2006, 06:12 PM
These Itilian made guns are gonna make a internet gun smith out of ya ...bare with`em ..at least they aren`t as high priced as a ruger ..:D

Smokin_Gun
May 23, 2006, 07:36 PM
The spring isn't too long, the Euroarms and Old ASP just have a little heavier mainspring in them. Remember if it came out it will go back in. Place the top of spring under the hammers roller. After it's under hammer tap the bottom of spring in, use pliers to line it up. And your done...
That wasn't so hard was it?

cbsbyte
May 23, 2006, 07:40 PM
I am going to take it to a gunsmith and see what they say. I am serious there is something wrong with either the gun or the spring. I have followed everything people have said and it is still will not line up the the slot in the frame. I have tried it without the hammer to see if it would fit and no go. I tried sliding the bottom into the slot with the end sticking out of the frame, so it would not be under any tension. It would not even slide into the slot. The bottom end is to thick.

sjohns
May 23, 2006, 08:03 PM
But it was in the frame in the first place wasn't it?

If it came out, it will go back in.

Smokin_Gun
May 23, 2006, 08:42 PM
You do have to put the top under the hammer roller before you start it into the frame, it won't go in any other way.
It won't push in to must tap it in. And question do you have the adjustment screw in the front of the grip frame backed out all the way and/ or removed?
That would cause a problem...before removing mainspring you must back out or remove that adjustment screw.
I hope that's the problem.

gmatov
May 24, 2006, 01:26 AM
The screw ain't the problem, if it was, he'd say he can only get it so far in then it won't go any further.

It is not an easy spring to install, but not nearly as hard as you are saying. It can be put in place. Everybody else who has one shoots them. Why can't you?

Grip with a pair of pliers, and I don't think pliers were an issue tool(mebbe an indication that way back then they did not take them all the way down to clean), start in the hole and bend with the pliers as you tap it into place.

Cheers,

George

sjohns
May 24, 2006, 03:58 AM
Don't take it too hard cbsbyte. We just want you to succeed without having to get with an armorer. But maybe the local guy there can show you how to do it, then you'll know.

Wwalstrom
May 24, 2006, 08:52 AM
I should also mention that the first time I removed my mainspring (in 1994), it took a hammer and a brass punch to get it out. When I got it started back in, it took a hammer and brass punch to tap it back into position. Recently, I have learned more about these pistols (thanks to websites like this one), and took it upon myself to deburr the mainspring with a needle file. Now it goes in and out without tools ... but, like I said, there is a trick to it. I should also mention, I did the same thing to my Brother-in-law's Uberti Target model 1858.

sundance44s
May 24, 2006, 10:35 AM
Some of the new guns do have a stiffer spring than others .. i wish we could be more help but teaching from afar is difficult at times .. if someone can show you how its done it`ll look so simple .. some good pictures of break down and reinstalling the parts would be a great help . Most of us here have been tearing down and refitting gun parts for a long time .. bear with it .. the scratches you made can be covered up with a bottle of cold blueing ..not that big a deal eaither . after a time the spring gets weaker and it can be reinstalled with your fingers .. takeing a stone or light file ..when you get a new one and knocking the factory burrs off does help too , some of the castings are a real mess in places that are hidden , and thats something we all do as soon as we buy one of the Itilial made reproductions .. they are still sold at a good price .. so we don`t complain .

Steve499
May 24, 2006, 04:57 PM
I replace my hammer spring with the hammer out. After the base of the spring is in it's slot, I wedge a wooden screwdriver handle between the back of the spring and the inside front of the grip frame which forces the spring to bend forward out of the way for the hammer to be installed. You may need to look at the base of the spring and at the slot to make sure they aren't burred, which may be what is holding things up.

Steve

Manyirons
May 24, 2006, 08:43 PM
WOW!

Theres Duncan with his 'DISCIPLINE' and you guys goin on how stiff yer springs are! What in HELL happend here? Turn into a S&M board? :)

Bart Noir
May 26, 2006, 07:47 PM
I have a used Pietta 1858 and really think it needs a new spring. It seems so weak I haven't even tried to pop a cap. So, will all brands use the same spring? Where do you recommend ordering? At least you have told me how to install.

Also, the hammer barely fits into the notches on the cylinder. Do some other brands have the hammer drop fairly far in, or is it just a case of the hammer tip only fitting in a little bit?

Bart Noir
Who bought it for the gaudy white grips.

eagle24
May 31, 2006, 03:23 PM
You probably got it back in by now, but here's something that may help. I use a short length of 5/16" hardwood dowel. Insert spring under hammer, slide dowel between spring and frame as far up (towards the hammer) as it will go, then bend the spring and it should line up with the slot. After you get it in, tap the dowel out and tighten the screw. Has worked for me with my Pietta, but it does take a little pressure to bend the spring with your hands. It is more about getting the right size dowel (as a fulcrum) and technique as anything.

cbsbyte
May 31, 2006, 04:40 PM
The gunsmith also could not get the spring into the frame, after three billed hours he gave up. He wanted to alter the frame to get in in, I declined. I mentioned to him how I was trying to do it and he agreed it was the correct proccedure. I sent it back to Euroarms on Thursday.

sundance44s
May 31, 2006, 04:56 PM
3 billed hours and a gun smith couldn`t get the spring back in ... man that just don`t sound right .. a gun smith should have been able to make it fit .. heck he could have made you a new spring in less time . don`t mean to sound like a smart azz but ..if it came out which it did... it would have to be able to go back in ... i`m sure its gonna come back to you installed ..but you`ll probally be afraid to ever take it out again after all this .. and you shouldn`t be . ( i sure would have liked to see this one )

sjohns
May 31, 2006, 09:28 PM
thats bullcrap
I don't believe it.

Smokin_Gun
May 31, 2006, 10:27 PM
I don't think I could classify that guy you took it to or took you, as a gunsmith. If he's a gunsmith I'm a master gun maker in the House of Smokin_Gun.
Cbsbyte believe me when I say I am not getting on "you" about the gunsmith, but I wish you's give me his email address so I can ask him what he did for 3 hours. You didn't know, but you do now...if you use him again then it's your fault. Trust that I say that guy ain't no gunsmith. I could have made you a mainspring with a decent stainless steel steak knife blade and had it fitted and shootin' in an hour. I have done it twice...HeHe! No BS.....
:O)

sjohns
June 1, 2006, 01:59 AM
me too bud. That story is so sad that I'd fix the darned thing for you also.
I have a couple of spare hammer springs for remmies.
I can't believe that guy couldn't fix it.

Did you maybe somehow destroy the spring while taking it out? I think you said it came out easy right? Or are ya going to tell me that you have 3 thumbs on one hand and 2 on the other? hehehe

bs32
June 1, 2006, 11:09 AM
Ya ain't tryin to put the dang spring in backwards are ye? I mean the curve of the spring goes "with" the curve of the grip not a'gin it. You'd never be able to instal the spring if'n yous tryin to do that. Jus a thought. I've got a Pietta Remmy and I've never had ANY problem takin out and replacing the spring.

b

cbsbyte
July 21, 2006, 01:18 PM
The conclusion to this ordeal. Euroarms was unable to fix the gun and they replaced it with a new one. They said the frame was out of spec. I just received it today.

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