My Ruger arrived this morning!!! Beautiful gun...everything was fine with it, though MC was right about some minor pitting on the loading lever. I took it to the range today and it was an awesome experience compared to shooting an 1858! The Old Army is just a superior weapon, hands down. My first or second shot was a perfect bullseye!
One problem with the gun though...for some reason or other...after shooting it for awhile...the hammer would not set off the caps on the first trigger pull, I had to start hitting them all a second time...a real bummer. I though maybe the BP was fouling the nipples so I did a quick cleaning, no go, it still wouldn't ignite the caps properly. Later on I cleaned the nipples again...near sunset...and the gun started to shoot properly...or hit the caps properly. I'm using number 11's - CCI.
Does anyone know what might be going on? Why would things be working fine one minute then go all wrong the next? Maybe I caught a bad batch of caps?
I'm going to the range tomorrow to see how she handles, I'll give you a second report when I return. By the way, this Old Army just wouldn't stop shooting, the fouling didn't affect the gun at all! I think I could shoot it over 100 times without even noticing any cylinder bind-up. Amazing!!!! I was using real black powder too! No synthetics at all. I was shooting at 25 yards also and it shot perfect...not high or low...perfect...I must have gotten really lucky. Only problem is the caps not going off properly and I don't have a nipple wrench for it yet. I've heard that the older models had weird sized nipples...maybe that's the problem. I'll have to order me some newer nipples and see what happens.
Any suggestions would be very helpful. Man am I glad I decided to get a Ruger! What an awesome piece of hardware!!!
By the way, my Ruger is from 1973...approximately. I'll need to call up Ruger to get an exact date. Oh yeah, I loaded a ball without putting any powder in the chamber! Looks like I finally busted my cherry! I got it out with a very thin drill bit. I just oiled the chamber a little bit and hammered the drill bit into the ball...then I slowly worked it back and forth, until I could wiggle it out of the chamber mouth...I got lucky! Especially not having a nipple wrench!!!
Take it easy fellas,
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May 25, 2006, 04:24 AM
Congrats on your new ROA. Your having to hit the caps twice most likely is do to the caps not being seated on the nips all the way. As the residue from the caps builds up it does get harder to seat them all the way. I have had my best luck with #10 remington caps on mine. I never had much luck with CCI or RWS caps.
The reason ROAs keep shooting is due to the cylinder bushing. That keeps the crud off of the cylinder pin. I like to give mine a drop of Breakfree forward of the bushing and at the rear down the cylinder at one of the slot areas. I do that every couple of cylinders shot. I don't even put bore butter or anything else except the Breakfree on the pin.
Are you using lubed wads? You should either do that or put a little lube on top of the balls. It helps keep the fouling soft and accuracy up when shooting the real BP. A couple powders make their own lube, like APP and Goex Pinnacle, but they are subs and you will get no flames, but adequate smoke.
Shoot it up and have some fun.:)
May 25, 2006, 07:08 AM
Congrats on your ROA Mario, sounds like it is more fun than s*x :D
Not sure about the cap problem but perhaps if you seated them with a leather tipped dowel it would be better. I now use Remington #10 and I like them much better than CCI but I can't get them in France so I have to ask people coming over from the UK to bring some.
NOW - don't wear it out!!
May 25, 2006, 09:10 AM
Ifin ya can take a minute from havin yer naughty bum caned (Tha MANN MADE me write this i SWEAR!!!!!)
Relax, he's got somthin Ruger in the works for ya!
And he also asks, didya move ta Frogland cause tha Dominatrixes/Dominators are cheaper by tha hour? (Says he'd beat me just fer tha excersice!)
Hoo Booy! Ya DO know I'm kiddin and I really AM yer buddy and love ya like a brother?
(Now tha KRAUT on tha other hand)
May 25, 2006, 09:26 AM
Perhaps the nips need replacement, might be worn? I use CCI #11s and the caps always seem to go bang. I even make my own out of beer cans and roll caps and they go bang.
As far as the pitting on the loading lever, you could just buy another loading lever. Not sure how much they are and it might not be a big deal anyway. Sounds like either someone put a taller front sight on the gun or you got lucky with the sight regulation. Good deal there! The accuracy of those things is just truly amazing. Mine'll out shoot a lot of cartridge revolvers I've owned. That accuracy and a good amount of power make these things SOOO useful in the field, a cap and ball you can actually hit a rabbit at 30 yards with. :D They're definitely worth the price of admission. I play with mine at 50 yards all the time, put up a circle about the size of a hog's head or a deer's vitals and blast away from field positions. :D
May 25, 2006, 10:37 AM
Thanks guys...any more suggestions?
I think the nipple cones must have been dry fired and I need to get some new ones, no big deal. You can't see any mushrooming on the nipples themselves, but there might be just enough to stop the cap from fitting on the cone properly. I love this gun!!! I've heard the the first run of nipples on the Old Armys were a little odd-sized back in the beginning, maybe that's the problem. I'll just have to double hit them with the hammer...to bad for me. I'll have some new ones by the beginning of next week. Going to the range today! :D
May 25, 2006, 11:34 AM
Now then good buddy, does this mean that you are back on the forum and the web? If so I will PM you later. As for the move to France - well, I have not had time to check out the quality of abuse from the pros but as I am constantly being abused by my good lady, at least I am saving my money!
Tell Jule he does not need the exercise from what I hear but if he is THE boss then he IS the BOSS :uhoh:
May 25, 2006, 11:40 AM
I've had that annoying problem with my ruger old army. When I first took it out, it shot every single time and i shot it 24 times that single day. Then after that, I had to hit the cap twice with the hammer before it could fire. I have to admit, alot of onlookers were wondering why that "neat looking gun" kept on misfiring. It was emabarssing to say the least.
I've been using #10 CCI caps. And the solution I found was to push the cap deep into the nipple with a dowel. It would still misfire once or twice.
I bought an R&D conversion cylinder and have loved the revolver even more. At least it fired evrytime I pulled the trigger. At 15 feet, using 250gr Black Hills Ammunition, I was grouping at 1".
May 26, 2006, 02:14 PM
Not all caps are sized exactly the same. The old discontinued green & white tins of Remington caps were always oversized to the extreme. I still shoot their #10's on #11 nipples and they work great.
Some brands vary by minor spec's but that may be enough to make a difference. When nipples are oversized, you can at least attempt to smooth them down a very little bit in the right place, and you'll still be able to use them as back up nipples after you get your new ones.
It sounds like you found an accurate shooter! (But you've got to get that wrench);)
May 26, 2006, 02:31 PM
I've replaced all the nipples on both my Rugers with Ampco beryllium nipples from DGW http://www.dixiegunworks.com (http://dixiegunworks.com).
Part number for the Ruger is NP1092 - they look and work great, and they're not expensive either. Will most likely last forever.
I just swaped my Remington nipples (Uberti) with the Ruger stock nipples and they seem to fit fine and work great. Only a proper range test will really prove that they work, but they go off fine at the house. Looks like I don't need a wrench now!:D
I'll still have to order another set of nipples for my Remington, but since I need to do a little work on the 1858 the timing is perfect. I need to get a large brass punch and whack the hell out of the front sight. Uberti must have pressed it on with way too much pressure. Three people have tried to move my front sights and all have failed. I just sprayed it tonight with some sort of break free type stuff. I put some in a plastic bag and rubber-banded it to the barrel. Maybe tomorrow or Sunday I'll put it between a vice and try hammering it in the proper position. The Remington has a sweet trigger and when benched it shoots one inch groups. After the front sight is lined up properly it will be a hell of a good revolver. A buddy of mine said my Ruger might need a little minot trigger work, so that it feels as sweet as my Remington. I'll have to shoot it a little more and see if I agree.
It really sucked, shooting the Ruger at the range yesterday. I had to hit every cap twice before they would go off. I shot two hundred rounds, and you may as well say four hundred, considering I had to hit each cap twice. That means I also held twice as long...and I shoot duelist style so it really wore out my arm. I need to get some larger grips for it also, they're just too small for my hands. A friend of mine has some nice ergonomic grips for his Old Army and they're very comfortable. Shooting with an uncomfortable grip has to effect accuracy, don't you think? At least if you're shooting for long periods of time.
May 27, 2006, 03:50 AM
Try heating the sight up with something like a hot air paint stripper gun then cooling it quickly OR freezing it then warming it quickly in hot water. That might loosen it up and save some damage with a brass punch.
..whack the hell out of the front sight.
Sounds a bit drastic to me :uhoh:
May 27, 2006, 04:58 AM
I don't think I'd freeze it, but putting the barrel tip & sight in boiling water sounds like a good idea.
May 27, 2006, 05:07 AM
arcticap, where are you getting Remington caps? I've checked a few places in my area, no luck. I'm not too keen on paying lots for shipping, either, or I'd order them.
May 27, 2006, 07:01 AM
I don't think I'd freeze it,
I don't mean for hours, just long enough for it to get cold and allow the metal a fraction of movement when it heats up again. Heat then cold was the way I used to take steering joints apart when I was young and poor:banghead: Come to think of it - i'm still poor but less spots!!
May 27, 2006, 11:50 AM
I talked with some guy from Bass Pro last week and he said to hit it very lightly with a propane blow torch. Same principle as what you're saying, though your method sounds a little safer Duncain. I soaked it last noght, it's still soaking in that break-free type spray stuff. I'll see if that works first, then move on to heat and cold if the break-free stuff fails.
May 27, 2006, 06:10 PM
sicilian at least if ya have a bad day at the range ya can stop on the way home and enjoy some crab cakes , and a cold brew all from the same stool ..
Good buy on the Ruger .. wish i could find an older unfired one .. was wondering about the nipples maybe being dry fired on .. did ya check the hammer face and see if there`s an impression of a nipple in it .. bought a display remmie like that once ..had to replace all the nipples and stone the hammer face back smooth .// but for the price was a good deal .
May 28, 2006, 05:06 AM
Nipple cones are fine Sundance and there is no impression on the hammer face. I've heard that the first couple of years Ruger produced the Old Army the nipples that came with those early models were odd sized. A little bit bigger than a number eleven percussion cap. Apparently they have fixed this problem with the younger Old Armys, but the older ones with the original nipples seem to be prone to problems. Could be that some of the nipples were just machined wrong, anything is possible.
The Ruger I bought was not unfired (I wish) and it was not 98% like the gun seller said but I'm still happy with the revolver overall. An Old Army target from the early seventies for $345.00 seemed like a fine deal to me. Now that I've replaced the nipples I should be good to go. Next visit to the range will be for precise zeroing in. I want to adjust the sights specifically for how I hold. I've heard that benching it isn't the best way to zero it in if you shoot off-hand. Anyone know if this is true or not? I figure I should adjust the sights freehand, the same way I shoot the revolver.
I've bought out every local gun shop's supply of .457 round balls and now I only have a few left after shooting last Wensday and Thursday. I'll probably have to wait until my next shipment arrives, I ordered five boxes of Buffalo round balls and five boxes og Hornady round balls. That should last me for a little while. I need to get casting supplies so I can make my own. I'd probably save quite a lot of dough if I made my own ammo. I haven't had a nice crabcake and a cold beer since last summer, I guess I'll have to make some for Memorial day. :neener:
May 28, 2006, 07:35 AM
Have been shooting a Ruger Old Army[SS] since 1976......my favorite handgun.
When the 5.5 length barrel was intoduced...I bought the first one available.
A blue......with the same problem....caps needing to be hard seated .....or double snapped. A tip I have not seen anyone mention..is to shim...just a bit...under the "shoe"... that seats the mainspring in the gripframe.
This will crank up the hammer tension...just a little..which cured my issues with the caps not wanting to fire off...
May 28, 2006, 11:49 AM
Sicilian i always do my sighting in from a bench rest ...because if i`m holding right and i uasually am for at least the first 2 or 3 shots free hand ... i get much worse soon there after ..and i wouldn`t want to sight in with some of my poorer shots .. after all if i were hunting or useing it for portection i would take advantage of any stationiary object around ... and when i miss i want to know its me and not the pistol . and uasually when i sight one in anyone can use it and shoot it well , but i`m sure if i were shooting a match grade pistol in serious matches off hand .. i would do my sighting in off handed .. ( good price on the Ruger i`d snap one up myself quick for that price )
May 28, 2006, 03:31 PM
I thought about the mainspring earlier I just didn't know how to make it a little stronger to set the caps off. Pretty interesting idea that worked! :D I'm happy with my fix, besides, I'll probably just sand the original nipples down so they except the number 11 caps properly. The problem is definitely in the nipples opposed to anything else, including the mainspring. At least your idea worked for you. Still though, don't you find it hard to put the caps onto those larger nipples? I think getting a new set of nipples with a standard nipple wrench is the better way to go but if you don't have anything available at the time the mainspring shim is an excellent quick fix.
It's going to be a hard decision for me, whether to bench it or to free-hand it. I think I may bench it and go from there, adjust it too my hand after it has been benched, you know? That way I'll be starting from a known point. I just got a good cleaning rod and some brass jags and brushes and I can't believe how much easier these guns are to clean vs. having a piece of crap cleaning rod with only the needle type accessory.
Out of curiosity, how much pitting does it take to start afffecting the accuracy of a rifle or pistol? I've been lucky in buying used guns at this point but I should really know what to look for in the future or know how much pitting is exceptable in an older firearm or antique that i plan to use a a shooter. The used guns i have already bought were in very good condition (Thank YHWH!). I also need to get some good screw drivers and tools for doing my own repairs.
May 29, 2006, 04:15 PM
Aw i forgot its been so long since i handled a Ruger cap & ball you`ve got adjustable sights .. yea i`d bench them in to POA and tweek `em to free hand fireing ........haven`t bought anything in a long time thats had any pitting in the bore .. i do remember cleaning up an old muzzle loader with some rough spots in the bore with a cleaning jag and some 00 steel wool and wd 40 .. seems like the more i shot it the better it got with the patches doing some lapping for me ......well at least when you bench it you`ll see what it is gonna do as far as grouping that will tell how much damage there is . Those Rugers are suppose to shoot a mighty fine group .. i `d bet it still shoots a pretty good group ..and will probally improve .
May 29, 2006, 07:31 PM
My Ruger is in great condition, no need for any special bore treatment. I'll keep what you said in mind though, never can tell when I'll need to do what you recommended. The Ruger is a shooter for sure and as I get better the groups will get closer and closer (I hope! :banghead: ). Shoooting a pistol is a lot harder then most people think, especially at any distance, even at 25 yards. After all of this practice with my 1858 and my Old Army a rifle should be a piece of cake to shoot! :D At least at 50 and 100 yards. Anything longer will take some learning and practice, I'm sure. I bought myself a Hawkin's 50 cal a week or so ago and it is a really nice looking piece of hardware. I'm eager to take her for a spin but I need to buy some ammo first. I think I can use some 3F even though it's not a pistol, is that correct? :scrutiny:
I think I might buy one of those Pietta or Ubert (Probably Uberti now that I think about it) 1873 Colt's - Black Powder of course. Have any of you guys seen them yet? They're very nice looking and they shoot black powder, what more could a guy ask for? :D The Piettas go for arounf $295.00 and the Ubertis go for around $350.00, though the prices are supposed to go up because of our weakening Dollar. Most of these replicas come from Europe and the Euro is killing the Dollar. As a matter of fact the dollar will probably go bust fairly soon. If anyone has been keeping up with things you may have heard about the Russian Ruebble becoming a world-wide currency like the dollar. People no longer have to use dollars to buy oil now. This is really going to hurt our economy. Countries all around the world are dumping American currency as fast as humanly possible. Take some good advice and buy gold guys, it's insurance in case the Fed decides to devalue our currency again, like back in 1933. A doller went from being worth a dollar to being worth something like ten cents - overnight. Gold is a proven store of value that is debt free and recognized as such all over the world.
May 29, 2006, 07:56 PM
Uberti 1873BP w/ Loading tool Shipped $290...BP date great shape:
May 30, 2006, 12:18 AM
How do you like it Smoke? How much did you pay and who made it? What diameter ball does the gun take? Will there be a converstion cylinder available for the 1873 BP? Man! I need to get me one and fast! :cuss: :D
Does it shoot high and how is the action? Any trigger creep, does it feel good in the hand and does it point well? I've got about a thousand more questions so I hope your taking notes:scrutiny: :neener:
One more question: Does the cartridge ejector work or is it just for show?
Pretty cool...pretty neat.
May 30, 2006, 01:08 AM
Mario, it's made by Uberti. It takes .451 or .452 balls if you make them in a Lee Mold, .454 will work fine also. Shoots tight groups, as far as I can remember it shot 1-2" high at 25yd and pretty much on at 100yd. It made tin cans dance and water bottles bleed pretty much put it where you aimed it. Has a .001" differance between chambers and bore grooves...makes for accuracy. Trigger is Uberti smooth and works well for me. I got it new and the box wasn't in good shape, about a year ago. The BP date stamp means it was made in 2001. I have taken it out about 3 or 4 times along with a few other Rev. Everything on it as functional as it's 1873 SAA Uberti counter part, i.e. ejector, gate, removeable firing pin. R&D is supposed to have a .45Schofield conversion. Saw it in the Midway catalog. (this cylinder bushing is .080") not .120"
I like it alot and would really rather not sell it, but to get something else I want I would need to at this time. This one was new and hasn't been shot like most of my other ones so this one I figure I should sell. It's a fair price along with the loader. Let me know if interested.
May 30, 2006, 08:37 AM
I know alot of people that shoot the 3f in their 50 cal front stuffers and it does fine .....but if you have the 1 in 48 twist i`d suggest trying some 2f first it will be better with the faster twist .. the 3f burns so fast it can cause the ball to skip the rifleing .. the guys in my club useing the 3f in theit 50`s have a 1 in 66 or 1 in 70 twist ... i use the 2f in my 1 in 70 twist green mountain 50 barrel and its a tack driver out too 100 yards... some barrels are picky as to what they like so i`d try some of both .
May 30, 2006, 11:50 AM
Thanks for the advice. I've got a Thompson Center Hawkens 50 cal, I picked it up for $199.00 and I hear the Thompson Center Hawkens Rifles go for around $400 or $500 dollars new, Does that sound about right to you? I'd like to get a new fiber optic front sight because the one that it came with has been sheared or scraped by the last owner. Don't get me wrong, you can't tell when looking down the barrel (aiming) but when you look at it from the side it is plainly visible. All of the brass is in excellent condition and the wood overall is good. There are some gashes and scratches in the wood on the left side of the stock that I would like to take out but I don't know how to properly go about doing it. I know how to sand and finish wood but don't have any experience with rifle furniture (Is that the right term to use or is the brass considered "Furniture"?)
I was also wondering, How do I go about cleaning this thing? Do I remove the barrel from the stock to clean it or do I just leave it on the stock? Could you recommend any good ammo and load sizes for me?
May 30, 2006, 12:41 PM
Yep all the brass on your gun is called funiture ... i`ve got 3 of the Thompson Hawkens great guns excellent locks and triggers .. and if you get one thats not a tack driver you can always buy a green mountain drop in barrel for it .. comes out of the box ready to drop in and shoot and they are match grade barrels ... for around 175.00 .. i do take the barrels off mine for cleaning because its so easy on the Hawken rifles .. if you can use a coffee can full of hot water and put the nipple end in the can and draw your patches with a cleaning jag ..uasually takes about 5 patches to get her clean .. i clean at the range with windex because it dries so quick . man i do get lucky some times bought all 3 of mine at a pawn shop for 50 bucks a piece they said no one wanted the side hammer guns now because the inlines are so much better ..... yea right i took all he had that were Thompson glad he felt that way ! your right new they are around 525.00 each .. are ya gonna use round ball and patch in yours .. thats all i shoot out of mine .. i cast my own balls but have used some made by speer and hornady ... both are good .. patch thickness and lube are imporntant if your gonna shoot round balls .. i buy pillow ticking material at walley world for 2 bucks a yrd. and cut and lube my own patches ... the sporting goods stores get 6 bucks for 100 of these patches .. i cut aand lube a thousand for that . I`ve refinished the wood on 2 of mine just because i didn`t like the color the factory puts on them ..i like `em dark walnut with a tung oil finish .. its just like refinishing anything else take all the brass off and just take care with your sanding where the wood meets the brass funiture .. i used a fine grade sand paper there and kept checking the fit . ... is the barrel on yours the 1 inch thick or the 15/16 ..i`ve got one thats the 1 inch .. man that one is heavy for me .. but a great shooter from the bench .
May 30, 2006, 03:13 PM
Looks like my barrel is 1" and it's a heavy bastard! Man did you get a great deal on your Thompsons! Count your lucky stars that that pawn shop didn't know what they had! I don't know about oil finishing wood, I've only done some basic wood working, like making my own shelving and sanding and staining them, putting nicely engraved trim on, etc. A master finisher I'm not but I do pretty good all around. I really need to learn from someone with more experience than me. There are always little tricks of the trade that the lay person doesn't know about. Could you explain to me how to apply an oil finish, step by step, from sanding to polishing, from beginning to end? I'd really appreciate it.
I don't know what I'm gonna shoot out of my hawkens yet, round balls are definitely cheaper, that's for sure. What do you think is more accurate? I figure bullets and maxi/mini balls should be more accurate then round balls, but you never can tell until you shoot them and see what the gun likes. I want to get into casting all of my own ammo, especially for my revolvers, I just haven't decided what equipment to buy yet. I think I may order some today or tomorrow. Got any good advice you may want to pass on to me Sundance? It's always nice to have access to more experienced people before going out and buying the wrong thing.
May 30, 2006, 05:51 PM
Wow ... you did get the heavy tank barrel ... i gotta say if you can stand the weight ..it`s the straightest shooter i have .. back when i was still hunting i used the buffalo bullets in my 50 cal front stuffer ..they need no patch and shoot straight out too deer takeing yardages .. they are expencive ..too much for plunking with ..and they will kill on one end and cripple on the other with a hunting load of powder ( 90 gr or so ) because of the weight of`em ........i always shoot round balls these days .. and with the Thompson barrel the 2f powder or pyrodex RS same as 2f works best because of the twist in the Thompson barrel .. 1 in 48 inch .. finding the right thickness in patches is important too .. try some .15 thousands and some .18 thousands mine shoot the best with the .18 `s and 60 gr of powder . i can group into a 1 inch circle at 100 yards with this load and round ball .... all my Thompsons seem to like this load but the 1 inch barrel shoots even tighter . ( i`m benching too not free hand ) The rifles are better than me free handed .
There`s 2 ways to go about the refinishing work on a gun stock .. you can eaither use sand paper or a comerical stripper to remove the old finish ... i`ve always used the sand paper because i wanted to take some deep scratches and dings out of the wood ... but never use a sanding machine .. always hand sand ... i always start with med grit paper in the runs and finner paper around where the funiture fits .. being more careful not too take off any more than needed there so as not to cause an improper fit when replaceing the funiture .you`ll need to sand everything real good with some fine grit paper too finish .make her as slick as possible . You would be supprised at how quick it will go sanding by hand . after you get all the old finish off and the fine paper sanding done give a good going over with some 00 steel wool ..then time to apply the color stain you want .. let it sit over night after you have it stained and then go over it with some steel wool again to take out any uneven spots in your stain job ... if you like the color but want it a bit darker restain it now and let it set over night again .. and steel wool again next day . Now for the finish ... if you want it finished out real shinny like glass use true oil ... if you like the old timmer finish look ..like me .. i use toung oil . this is the time consumeing part its gonna take at least 15 coats of the finish allowing it to dry each coat .. you`ll need to use the 00 steel wool after each time it dries ... after about 5 coats of the finish you`ll start to see progress in your work ...rub each coat of finish oil in real good trying to get the finishing oils warm from the rubbing .. it`ll take into the wood much better from being rubbed in really good .. and everyone will say wow ..that stock looks amazeing better than store bought ..hahaha ... patience is the key here its something that just can`t be rushed .. but its nothing that can`t be fixed as long as you are careful not too take too much wood from the places where the funiture fit .. hope this helps .. sounds like a lot of work ..but you`d be supprised at fast it will go .
May 30, 2006, 06:47 PM
I like to this kind of work, relaxing (Most of the time) and it's quite satisfying after the work has been done, you get to marvel at your own handywork and brag a little to all your friends :D I don't mind sanding things by hand, thats how I usually do things anyway, no big deal there. I just bought some Hornady Great Plains 50 cal ammo, 385 grain bullets, I'd hate to get shot by one of these monsters!!! :what: I'm glad to hear that the rifle I bought is so accurate, it makes me feel like I made a good purchase. Maybe I should measure it just to make sure it's the Tank barrel, but I'm pretty sure it is.
I'm not so sure if this was a good idea, but I couldn't resist. I just bought some 45 cal 325 grain hollow points, prelubricated, to use in my ruger Old Army, just to see how they shoot. I figure I'd put some Triple 7 behind them and see how they fly. Does anyone think they could damage my Ruger or get stuck in the bore or something? The diameter is .451 so I don't see how that could happen, but they are rather tall compared to a round ball, about double the length I'd say. My Ruger has fairly large chambers so I think they will shoot alright. Only twenty to a box though, I bet they'd make a great self defense load !:evil:
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