[Deer Hunter]

I've been searching this forum and havn't found many answers yet, so I decided to start the thread.

I own a Smith and Wesson 625. I love the gun, and enjoy it more than the numerous 1911s that I've fired. Feeding it, however, can become a pain. I usually buy bulk Wolf ammo, and then have some Black Hlls +P ammo on hand for defensive purposes. However, I think I will be reloading by the end of this year. Right now, I'm looking for some good loadings for my gun.

Now, I've seen all kinds of target load data on this message board, but I want to know about some of the hotter stuff. I've got around 250 brass +P cases from my black hills ammo (not to mention another thousand or so of steel cased, but that's not reloadable, is it?), and I would like to load them rather hot. I was thinking of pushing a 185 grain XTP bullet at around 1200 feet per second. That would be my primary defensive/fun load.

[YellowLab]

Steel cased ammo is reloadable. During WWII arsenals produces steel ammo. The only thing it wears out is the extractor.

Berdan shells are a PITA to reload (the ones with the two flash holes in the bottom). And require a special primer not readily available.

At the local range a few of the older guys scarf up the Wolf .223 like candy... no one else wants it. I'm sure it will wear the dies a little faster, and still has the berdan primer to worry about (they knock them out hydraulically) but they shoot good.

[Poodleshooter]

I was thinking of pushing a 185 grain XTP bullet at around 1200 feet per second. That would be my primary defensive/fun load. That might be tough in a vented revolver barrel where some velocity is lost jumping the cylinder gap. You can always try,but I wouldn't expect a whole lot of load data from others since that kind of speed is pushing the pressure envelope.
You might look into the .45 Super,which uses different brass but conforms to .45 ACP dimensions externally,IIRC.
If you want to go for it, try Power Pistol.
Steel cased wolf is reloadable,but not very useful when .45 brass is prolific. Wolf .45 is boxer primed rather than Berdan primed as with their rifle offerings.

[P0832177]

Why beat the crap out of great gun like the 625? I would think that you could find more enjoyment out of a nice wimp load. I have shot untold thousands of rounds through the 5 625's I have owned. I have some nice 200gr LSWC loads that are one holers. Good for introducing new shooters, and they are easy on the pocket book.

I would offer up that you use Fed. 150 primers in the 625.
Here is link to some data that might be useful in your search. http://www.realguns.com/loads/45auto.htm

[Deer Hunter]

So I can reload my wolf brass? That just saved me some money.

1200 fps is a longshot, but I would like to experiment a bit. Sure, with target loads I'd only be up to 800 fps or so with some SWCs, but I'd like to see what this revolver can do. If you advise against it, then I'll cut back and try around 1000-1100 fps. That's reasonable, considering that I'm using +P brass, right?

I'm going to talk to one of my father's friends who is an avid reloader. I'll get most of my questions answered by him.

Thanks for the site, that gives me some information I've been looking for. Now, what would be the drawbacks of using Wolf steel cases when reloading?

[The Bushmaster]

Deer hunter. +P brass is no different then brass not marked +P. The + is for those that purchase factory rounds and want to know if it is loaded to +P specs or standard loadings. After it is fired and becomes fodder for a reloader the +P means nothing...

I would stay within load manual specifications and not exceed their recommended powder charges for a given bullet.

[Deer Hunter]

I see. As you can tell, I'm rather new to all of this. Would I, though, be able to load the same loads in a steel cased wolf round and have the same results?

Also, Do most of you buy bullets from Ebay? I've heard that references many times.

[The Bushmaster]

The steel case question will have to be answered by someone else as I don't load steel cases.

I purchase my bullets and other supplies from local gun shops, gun shows and www.midwayusa.com

[Nhsport]

I would strongly recomend a starting handloader to stay well within published load data .This isn't bad advise for experienced handloaders either! The 625 is a monster that should handle more than standard 45acp loads but it isn't always that simple.If you want more power I would recomend you shop for a gun in 44mag or 45colt (aka 45long colt). Yes it is the same basic gun but the higher capacity case allows you to make velocity with different powders. (and established loads) The 45 acp bullets might fall apart when pushed to the velocitys far beond what they are designed for. 45 acp cases are not built as heavy as .44mag or 45 colt brass.
45ACP brass is pretty reasonable and most any range literally has it laying all over the ground free for the takeing (ask first) .Trust me -Toss the steel stuff
If you do attempt to tempt fate (or darwin) label any heavy loads very carefully as they would be almost certain bombs in a standard 1911.

[nelson133]

Go ahead and load your stuff hot if you want, most of us long time reloaders have until we learned better. Ht loads wear out a gun fast, are more expensive to shoot, wear out brass faster and are usually much less accurate. Steel cases wear out dies faster also. Used brass can be found pretty cheaply at gunshows and on line. If you like the big blast and the recoil, I would suggest getting a more powerful gun .44 mag and up, and you could get the big thrills and stay within the design limits of the gun. The problem with loading max loads is that when you get close to the limit a very small increase in powder amounts can push the pressure curve way oo high for your gun. You must be very precise with each load on a good scale and not just trusting your powder measure.
BTW don't plan on using hot handloads for self defense, a good lawyer could make you look like a bloodthirsty maniac to an ignorant jury. You know "regular ammunition wasn't good enough, he had to make super killer ammunition."

[Deer Hunter]

BTW don't plan on using hot handloads for self defense, a good lawyer could make you look like a bloodthirsty maniac to an ignorant jury. You know "regular ammunition wasn't good enough, he had to make super killer ammunition."Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that before. That makes me think twice. But then again, I hope I'm never put in that position.

As for loading hotly. Yes, I'd like to see what I can do with this gun and this cartridge, but it wont be all the time. I'm going to be using standard target loads (very weak and cheap) for most of my shooting, but it's always fun to experiment, right?

I'm going to invest in a .357 magnum (S&W 627) and a 10mm (G20) this year, so I'll have heavier stuff to play with. My only handgun right now is the 625. I wont load too hot too often, but I will try pushing it a bit farther than most factory loads. Something along the lines of DT ammo.

[Ol` Joe]

What do you expect to gain by loading "hot"?? Accuracy? velocity?

If you do load hot how will you tell just how "hot" you are loading? At what psi will you deem a load hot? What will you measure this psi with?

Maybe a "hot" load will be a faster load. What kind of pressure will be need to reach this vel? How much extra Velocity will you need to be in the HOT range?

Will the load kill any better then "warm" loads with the same bullet at reasonably range?

Will the gun be as happy fireing these loads? Will its useful life be as long?

Back in the mid `70s my dad loaded the STARTING load of H110 in the then new Speer #10 manual and locked his M19 up tighter then a drum. The load was 15.8gr under a 158gr JHP. Later the load was reduced in the books and today the MAX load with these compnents is 15.0 grs. I tried "hot" loads that ran fine in my Ruger Super Blackhawk in a new M29 a few years earlier and ended up with a bent crane with the first cylinder full. None of these loads exceded the books recommendations, and still damaged firearms.

Once you start reaching for the sky with your loads, if you don`t have pressure equipment and a good knowlage of what to expect you are headed for trouble IMO. The factory loads contrary to popular belief are loaded to max pressure and are "hot". Pressures are not exact in a string of shots with the same load and the factory and manual writers, list AVERAGE psi. The acual PSI may vary 5-6K or so in the string. This means a load that is rated at 20K psi may have rds showing 23K psi or more in testing. SAAMI lists a max psi rating for a cartridge and expects the pressure then to never excede that psi. If the average psi for a load has to be 10k under that max so be it. any psi over the max is concidered dangerous by SAAMI.

None of the above takes "spikes" into acount. (facoties discontinue use if a set of components shows to be unreliable) Some powders may be more prone to this in certain cartdges then others. Or the powder may work very well in one cartridge and show wild swings in another for no reason. The everyday handloader has no way of knowing what the powder he uses is doing except to follow and trust his book.

Like bullets will do the same thing to a target, live or inanimate, with velocities within 100-150 fps of each other. You might acually find you have an over lap of velocities between the "hot" load and a milder one if you plot the extreem spread of you velocity with a cronograph, psi is up but no real gain is to be had.

Reloading is a great hobby, but please don`t get in in with the idea one can just start loading max or over max ammo safely. Work up and if you need more power buy a bigger gun. You, and everyone around you at the range, will be happier.

[BruceB]

While you're still in the "considering" stage, I suggest you take a HARD look at just how the cylinder of your 625 revolver is dimensioned.

There's not much steel around each chamber, looking at it from the back end. Then, note that each of the locking notches is cut DIRECTLY OVER THE THINNEST PART OF EACH CHAMBER'S WALL. The amount of steel between the notch's bottom (outside) and the chamber (inside) is a very-few thousandths of an inch.

I have personally seen and handled S&W .45s which have had the chamber walls expand at the location of the locking-bolt cuts, making the guns essentially useless until the cylinder was replaced (or "repaired"....not a good thing to attempt). This uselessness was due to the cases expanding into the pressure-swollen "dimple" in each chamber when fired, and making extraction difficult, if not impossible.

If you want ballistics of the magnitude you suggest, then previous posters are correct: "Get a .44!!!" Otherwise, you have a very fine revolver, and it would be a shame to damage it. Even if the chambers did NOT expand at the notches, heavy loads will greatly diminish the life of the gun.

[Deer Hunter]

Again, I am just in the pondering phase. I would work up to the pressures that I deem "hot" (or just "warm") from very, very light target rounds. I am not expecting to pick up a reloading kit and automatically start pumping out super-hot loads without knowing what the hell I'm doing. I've got a little bit more sense than that.

I'll update when I get more information about when I can start reloading. Right now, my money is going toward a few more guns so I can truly justify me reloading.

[Sunray]

"...I can truly justify me reloading..." Owning only one firearm justify's reloading. Factory ammo, of any kind, is expensive and isn't loaded for your firearm. Using factory ammo is like buying a suit off the rack. It'll do, but isn't the best for the money.
Reloading is about using the best possible ammo in your firearm. The only way to do that is to tailor the ammo to your firearms. Be that a rifle or handgun. Hot ammo or target ammo doesn't matter. Reloading will let you decide if you want to work up a hot load or a target load. Either one will be the most accurate of that type of load in your firearm. Accuracy is what's important. Nothing else.

[1911user]

If you aren't going to listen to BruceB and others posts, at least commit to posting pictures of the results when you go too far (you could easily be looking at a bloody hand wondering what happened). They were not "hints" to be lightly ignored with a wink and a joke, they are real warnings from experienced reloaders. 45ACP is not a magnum round and never will be; the case is not designed to handle magnum pressure. I'll third the notion of getting a 44mag for "HOT" loads. If that isn't hot enough, I've heard the 454 casull is tolerant of hot loads.

[Sunray]

1911user, easy Effendi. Deer Hunter says he's 'just in the pondering phase'. He hasn't told anybody to pound anything anywhere.

[BigO01]

DeerHunter I suggest you look at some of the reloading data from the powder companies .

Here are some links to save you some time

http://www.accuratepowder.com/

http://www.hodgdon.com/

http://www.imrpowder.com/

http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/reloading.asp

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

From the data I have seen the load you are considering is extremely unsafe in any gun even a strong revolver such as your S&W . As a reloader for over 20 years I advise you to NOT attempt to reach the velocities you are considering with the .45 acp in any gun .

1100 fps is realy pushing it with this round .