S&W Military and Police .38Special 6" Should I buy It??


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Master Blaster
May 26, 2006, 11:57 AM
Yesterday I walked into my favorite purveyor of fine firearms and looked in the used consignment case, and saw what looked like a real old S&W revolver.

Except it looked like it was brand new!!! No scratches no turn line, round half moon fron sight, diamond coke grips, 5 screws.

price $300 This gun looks more perfect than the 2006 smith 29 they have in the new case!!!!!!!


Serial number is S844XXX.

Should I buy it??? its perfect in every way, so I told them to hold it for me, and they put it in the back!!

Is this a good revolver? Is it worth the price???
If you have one what does it like to shoot?? (handload Hint)

Thanks

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slick6
May 26, 2006, 12:10 PM
What State are you in, to find prices like this? I saw an old M&P with an 6-inch barrel with a serial number of S844XXX in CA! I put a hold on this revolver! Since these serial numbers are so close, it would be interesting to know what State the M&P that you are looking at is located in? BTW, these old M&P's are excellent revolvers-and are the backbone of the whole S&W revolver line!

Brian Williams
May 26, 2006, 12:18 PM
If they really are Coke Diamond grips for a K frame. You could buy the gun and sell them and have a free gun. Cokes were a target grip made mostly for the N frame. They might be target grips with a diamond. $300 for a 5 screw S&W M&P in 95 to 99% is great.
They like 38s loaded to about 850fps with 158gr lead bullets.

mjb
May 26, 2006, 12:56 PM
I would buy it. those 5 screw S&W have a nice smooth action. I recently purchased a model 10-5 with a 6 inch tapered barrel. It is my only modern S&W but I love it. :)

bigger jon
May 26, 2006, 01:16 PM
you couldnt get mine for any price its one of the funest pisotls i have, mine was made in the 20s and shoots like a dream.shot a ton of hogs with it to boot.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/jhunter63/IM003967.jpg

Master Blaster
May 27, 2006, 07:18 PM
Well I closed the deal for a bit less than the asking price yesterday. I was going to post a picture, but a gent in another thread posted pictures of his revolver which looks identical to mine, except my grips are lighter.
This revolver looks as though it was in a time capsule since 1946. Its totally blemish free and the mat bluing is perfect. Obviously it was never issued and was packed away.

A book in the shop where I bought it Supica? said serial number indicated it was made between 1946 and 1949
when there were 111,700 like it made if the serial number ranges are correct.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=202734

slick6
May 27, 2006, 08:34 PM
Master Blaster:

Please post a picture of your newly purchased M&P? I would very much like to see your revolver? Is the barrel length a 5-inch or an 6-inch? Also, I'm curious as to what State that you had found your M&P? I found mine in CA!

Old Fuff
May 27, 2006, 09:12 PM
You guys should get together... :D

S&W started post war M&P production on September 12, 1945, at serial number S-811,120 so No. S-844,xxx is clearly an early gun (late 1945-early 1946). It is also one of the prized (an least by the Old Fuff) "Transitional” variants that had the pre-war long action combined with post-war safety improvements - the best of both worlds!

As a rule most of today's buyers have little or no interest in .38 Special revolvers with 6" barrels and fixed sights. The fact of the matter is that the "long Toms" make excellent, highly accurate, shooters - but what business is it of the Old Fuff to inform the great unwashed... :neener:

Their attitude however has tended to depress the selling price of the longer lengths (5 and 6 inches) over the shorter ones (2 and 4 inches). Therefore the Old Fuff takes advantage of the situation every chance he gets. :evil:

For $300 he would run, not walk to the dealer who had a near mint M&P Transitional with any barrel length, but in particular for a 6" that is not easly found.

If Master Blaster got there first the Fuff would mug him when he passed the nearest alleyway. :D

kjeff50cal
May 27, 2006, 11:11 PM
If Master Blaster got there first the Fuff would mug him when he passed the nearest alleyway.

Don't mug Master Blaster he has a gun:what: :p .

Old Fuff
May 28, 2006, 12:11 AM
For such a prize one has to take reasonable chances... :scrutiny: :D

Jim March
May 28, 2006, 01:17 AM
Am I right in thinking the sights are probably dialed in for 158gr lead loads?

If so the Remington 158+P LSWC-HPs won't overstress that gun if shot in moderate amounts at least...they're probably no more potent than the period 38 standard pressure loads of the early post-war period.

XavierBreath
May 28, 2006, 01:59 AM
http://www.bayourovers.com/SWMPPreModel10.jpg

The post war pre-Model 10 M&Ps are fine revolvers. Here is number S 845XXX.
I gave $89 for this beauty. Your revolver was likely manufactured in 1946 or very early in 1947.


http://www.bayourovers.com/premodel10range.jpg

Old Fuff
May 28, 2006, 02:30 AM
As Tuner says, "a clue..."

Smith & Wesson changed the shape of the ejector rod and removed the knob-shape on the end on October 4, 1946. Thereafter the rods were straight with a knurled end.

Engineering changes often help bracket manufacturing dates.

XavierBreath
May 28, 2006, 07:13 AM
ooooooooooo good info to know Fuff! So that is the date they went with the same diameter Model 10 style ejector knob then?

Master Blaster
May 28, 2006, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the info Fuff.

Mine indeed has big head ejector rod, not the straight end like on my K-22.

I will keep a sharp eye-out for you lurking in an Alley.
What mystifies me is how anyone could have owned this gun for so long and never put a scratch on it.

I sure couldnt do it.:)

Majic
May 28, 2006, 10:43 AM
What mystifies me is how anyone could have owned this gun for so long and never put a scratch on it.
Easy, just buy two with one to shoot and the other gets put away.

Old Fuff
May 28, 2006, 11:54 AM
ooooooooooo good info to know Fuff! So that is the date they went with the same diameter Model 10 style ejector knob then?

That would be right. But the thread was changed from a right hand to a left in 1961 and the model 10-2. (standard barrel gun) and 10-3 (heavy barrel gun).

What mystifies me is how anyone could have owned this gun for so long and never put a scratch on it.

Pure speculation on my part, but it might have been bought by a company to arm security personal, and then never issued. Or perhaps an individual that kept it for protection but never shot it.

Also it is very interesting that another forum member purchased a similar gun, in the same shape, in the same serial number range, at about the same time you purchased your revolver. I wouldn't want to calculate the odds of this happening, and I would STRONGLY recommend that both new owners have their guns "lettered" by Roy Jinks at Smith & Wesson.

I would further recommend that neither party shoot their guns until some more information is available. It is possible - even probable - that their value to a collector far outweighs their value as a shooter.

slick6
May 28, 2006, 12:51 PM
Master Blaster:

1)For all of the reasons that Old Fuff has given above(And more!)I would appreciate our getting together regarding both of our identical M&P's! This is the first time that I had ever purchased a mint gun and then had someone else to come forward with the same vintage gun(Also in mint condition!)with a serial number very close to mine!)and had purchased his gun almost at the same time(And, probably, in a different State?)! This is very exciting to me! And, I'm even more "Enthusiastic" about your M&P-and, I hope that you will come forward and post some pictures of your M&P and would send me an email, so that we could discuss our two sister M&P's(Note: I had already emailed you-but, you did not reply!)?

2)I plan to letter my M&P and I hope that you will do the same? Who knows, both of our M&P's could have been in the same shipment-and, possibly could have branched off from there to different locations? There could be much more exciting things to learn about these two revolvers?

Old Fuff
May 28, 2006, 01:27 PM
Note: I had already emailed you-but, you did not reply!)?

I wouldn't see this as a concern. This is a holiday weekend and Master Blaster may not be at home sitting in font of his console.

XavierBreath
May 28, 2006, 01:56 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40514&stc=1&d=1148835339
Fuff,
Does this look correct to you?
Can we get more exact on the other dates?

Master Blaster
May 30, 2006, 09:53 AM
The interesting thing is that the ejector rod head looks exactly like the one that supposedly was no longer produced after 1930, it has that neat 45 degree bevel as in the 1902 to 1930 picture you posted!!!!

I will post some pics of mine shortly, including the guide rod head closeup.

I live on the east coast, mid atlantic, my serial number is about 170 guns away from Slick's. I think that this is a coincidence, mine came from a large collection taht was put on consignment at my local shop when the owner moved to Italy recently.

I have been busy with my children and wife over the holiday so I did not have time to respond before. Thanks

Master Blaster
May 30, 2006, 10:28 AM
here are pics

slick6
May 30, 2006, 11:49 AM
Master Blaster:

1)Was your M&P revolver made before or after my revolver's serial number approximately 170 numbers?

2)I noticed in one of your pictures that on the right front grip panel, there is an half-moon shaped lighter looking spot of wood? Could you describe what this might be?

3)Did you receive the original box and/or papers with your M&P?

4)My 6-inch M&P has the same(Neat looking)approximate(1930-1946)ejector rod head that your M&P has!

Master Blaster
May 30, 2006, 01:08 PM
My M&P is definately a 6" barrel model.

Mine was poduced before yours, the number is lower.

The crescent mark on the grips was put there by the gunshop due to careless handling by a new employee $25 discount as a result. I steamed the ding out and filled it due to torn grain. I have not yet colored it to match the rest of the wood.

No Box or papers, doesnt matter, I am shooting mine.

I already fired put 100 rounds of speer 158 lswc hollowpoints loaded to 800 fps with trailboss powder 4.2 grains, this load came from Hodgdon/IMR data on their website. Very accurate, and not a spec of lead fouling left in the gun barrel or on the cylinder face.

I had a great time shooting it along with my old K22 yesterday morning before the temp went up to 92 F. The double action trigger is amazing, better than on my new K-frames. The single action trigger is typical for a S&W revolver (also excellent).

Old Fuff
May 30, 2006, 03:25 PM
The double action trigger is amazing, better than on my new K-frames. The single action trigger is typical for a S&W revolver (also excellent).

Ah, now you have learned something about Smith & Wesson actions, and the difference between the older "long action," and the newer "short" ones. :scrutiny: :)

Old Fuff
May 30, 2006, 03:41 PM
I am looking into the question of ejector rod heads as time and health permit...

But anyway, if Master Blaster and slick6 (as well as anyone with a pre-war or early post-war) S&W revolver will take a close look you may notice that the end of the rod comes very close to the back of the barrel's lug, and there is little or no gap between them. The purpose of the angle on the front of the rod is to cam the locking bolt forward when the cylinder is closed. Later production guns often had a perceptable gap between the lug and rod, and what you are seeing in your revolvers is the much more precise fitting that was done on these earlier guns - even on the low-end Military & Police models.

Think of what the fitting in a .357 Magnum (pre-model 27) was like... :eek:

Master Blaster
May 30, 2006, 03:48 PM
Thanks Fuff when I read what you wrote earlier about the long action I pulled out my 20 year old model 19 which has had thousands of rounds fired through it and my 686 also fired alot, and compared the triggers. The M&P has a double action trigger which seems to have a shorter and smoother pull to it, very noticably so. The single action trigger on it is average though.

One thing I noticed yesterday is that the sights are not easy to see when firing double action, the hammer spur gets in the way of a good sight picture to some extent. It didnt stop me from keeping most double action shots in the black on the 50 foot NRA bullseye target however.

Old Fuff
May 30, 2006, 04:17 PM
This is shocking....:eek:

But the truth is that back when your old gun was new, the Old Fuff was around too... ;)

In those days it was presumed that one would always cock the hammer to make a precise shot, and the double-action feature would be used in a below eye-level point shooting mode. There were folks like Ed McGivern that did a lot of very fast precise shooting using the double-action trigger pull, but most of their revolvers had target sights which were high enough to see over the hammer spur.

Anyway, start your trigger pull and pick up the sights as the hammer is going backwards.

The single action pull was deliberately heavy because hair-triggers weren't seen as a plus in law enforcement work. With a little use it will smooth out.

S&WIowegan
May 30, 2006, 04:35 PM
You guys are having fun and that's what it's all about. However, I would like to point out a few corrections to what's been said.

1. The stocks are in no way shape or form "cokes". They are very simply standard post-war service stocks often referred to as diamond magnas. Cokes are a particular style of full-size target stocks with a palm swell.

2. The serial numbers on S&W revolvers do NOT precisely define the order of production, i.e. "mine's older than yours". Frames seem to have been produced in batches and serial numbered. Then guns were assembled in a fairly random fashion from any particular batch(es). It is quite possible for a gun with an early serial number to have been produced and shipped after a more recent number. Drives collectors either crazy or to ecstasy depending on what trips your trigger. Finally, factory ship dates can be years after the theoretical production time based on the serial number.

3. The $300. price mentioned by MB is approximately the current going rate for high grade 6" M&Ps. I've bought several lately;)

None of my comments are aimed at damping your fun and enthusiasm. I just thought I'd share knowledge I've gradually acquired.

Bob.
SWCA 1821

XavierBreath
May 30, 2006, 09:20 PM
The interesting thing is that the ejector rod head looks exactly like the one that supposedly was no longer produced after 1930, it has that neat 45 degree bevel as in the 1902 to 1930 picture you posted!!!!MB, I'm going to disagree and state your knob appears to be the 1930-1946 style. The real telling feature is not the knob itself, but the cut in the bottom of the barrel necessary to recieve it. The width of the knurled area is also an indicator.

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