[Ringer]

I picked up a new MiniFirestorm 9mm at a gun show this past weekend. I like the features it has and it’s one of few guns that fits both my wife and I. Got it with the Nickel finish. The finish on these guns that I have looked at, both the Nickel and the Blue, is less than perfect, but for a gun in the $300 range it seemed acceptable. Unfortunately this gun has not turned out to be all that I thought, or was at least hoping it would.

Put about 350 or so rounds through it this weekend. A mix of Winchester FMJ “100 round white box target”, Remington UMC 115 grain metal case and a handful of Federal 135 grain Hydra Shock JHP.

First bummer - Using the Winchester netted about 4 misfires (click no bang) per 100. The dent on these misfired primers seemed a little less than on the other spent cases, but not really sure. The other two types of ammo I had no problems with. I know the Winchester ammo is cheap (as is this gun :) ), but I have heard lots of people talk about using it without issue.

Second and bigger bummer – The finish is wearing off the top of the barrel where it appears to be rubbing the slide. I can see wear marks on the inside of the slide where it is rubbing. This is my first semi-auto pistol so not sure if that is normal or not. See pic of barrel below. I will be contacting the manufacturer/importer about this, as this does not seem right after just a couple trips to the range.

Other than that, the gun is fun to shoot. I’m wondering if this is a common problem with this or any other guns. I have read quite a few posts and magazines articles about this gun and have seen no mention of similar problems. Should I expect them to do anything about it, the barrel I mean? Or just except it for what it is and enjoy shooting it ignoring the worn finish?

Thanks very much.

Sorry about the quality of the pic, best I could do in a hurry without natural lighting.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ringer1/barrelmarks.jpg

[TreeSquid]

My CZ P-01 has a matte-black finished barrel, and it's wearing off in the same place, though it looks like yours is actually chipping, whereas mine just gets thinner, then is gone. I wouldn't be too concerned.

[makdaddy03]

Thats a Llama for ya. Same thing.

[Akurat]

Its not a Llama...its a Bersa, FYI. Just marketed under the same brandname (Firestorm).

Ringer, Sorry to hear that you are disappointed...I believe the barrel rub is normal...bought my Mini 9 blued and after about 700 rounds the finish on top of the bbl (square part where the slide touches) is almost completely gone. Doesn't bother me much..

Bersa did have problems with the Nickel finishes early in production. I contacted FireStorm SGS before buying mine because I had heard some complaints of the Nickel finish peeling/flaking off. They aknowleged the problem but said that the factory had since corrected it. I went with the blued version just to be safe. The nickel sure is good lookin though..

Have had no problems with misfires and use the same Wal-mart Winchester whitebox ammo. Perhaps there was still some packing grease hindering the firing pin...?? Keep us updated.

[PCRCCW]

The Bersa is a completely different and very quality gun as compared to the Llama. Sheesh.......
The nickel flacking off of the barrel isnt a great thing...Id call them and see what they recommend doing about it.
As far as misfires/light strikes in the first shoot.....I really wouldnt sweat it....not until you get more rnds through it....
You dont know if the gun has a real and continual problem or if its just letting the various hard parts get to know each other.
The Mini is a very very nice gun....Your first impressions should hold true.......see what SGS says....
Shoot well

[The Mighty Beagle]

I'm going to post when I get my gun back from the repair center.

Not only did my gun seem to suffer from accelerated wear, beyond what 200 rounds should do to a gun, but also I got misfires galore. I finally theorized that the gun wasn't feeding right/going fully into battery.

[Ringer]

Just got off the phone with SGS. They acknowledged a problem with the Nickel finish barrels. They are shipping me out a new barrel today :D ! This is great news as I was thinking I would have to ship the gun back and it would be gone for who knows how long.

Thanks for the replies. I'll post a follow up in a few days after I receive the barrel and get back to the range.

[makdaddy03]

Yeah right.:evil: I was in denial before too.

[surfinUSA]

llama, Bersa, same garbage. save your money get a Beretta, Glock or SIG and you won't be crying this sad tune. If you want to safe money get a Ruger or S&W auto and you'll still be singing a happy tune.

[railroader]

surfinUSA, I don't own either bersa or llama? Have you? I was just wondering where that statement came from. I haven't heard many good things about llama but bersa is a totally different story. Heck they are made on different continents. People rave about the 380 bersa's. I know my buddy has one and it is a very good shooter. Reliable, accurate and it even has a good trigger. Mark

[The Mighty Beagle]

Yeah, "get a Ruger/Smith/Glock/Beretta", HAHAHAHAHA.

Since when do any of them make an equivelent gun to the Mini series? Instead, they focus on making a bunch of bigger, blockier guns having the ergonomics of a brick.

Been there, done that, got rid of them all and bought a Firestorm - not for the stellar quality, but because it ended up being the only one that fit me.

Perhaps we should just be quiet and pretend those other makers Surfin mentioned never put out the occasional lemon, either.

[Ringer]

Not sure I understand the denial comment.

While I like Sigs and Beretta's, for this purchase they had nothing that fit what I was looking for. I'm 6'2" 200 lbs, my wife is 5'3" 120 lbs. I couldn't find anything else that fits us both comfortably, plus have both a saftety (not on the slide) and decock lever. Not to mention I'm not into spending $600 or more to put holes in paper as this is not a SD/HD gun. I think Rugers are just plain butt ugly, but that's just me I'm sure. Low end S&Ws do nothing for me either.

For 300 bucks I'd still take this gun as is. With a new barrel on the way, and a lifetime service policy in the event the misfires continue, I'm not worried.

[surfinUSA]

Railroader, I'll admit I'm a gun snob.

No, I don't own a Bersa nor a Llama and won't. I've handled and shot examples of both and am not impressed.

Both Beretta and Sig make high quality, reliable and accurate 380s. With Glock you have to move up to the 26 or 27. Either are a good choice and both are in a better caliber than 380.

If you can find one, the CZ83 is a very nice 380.

[Akurat]

Well, that said, your opinion differs greatly with that of 99% of Bersa owners and shooters. We all know how great Berettas, SIGs, and Makarovs are...in this thread we are discussing the Argentine Bersa/Firestorm. Thank you.

And Makdaddy, youre just trolling for an argument. Act like a 12 year old and be treated like one. :rolleyes:

Glad to see that SGS resolved the barrel issue, Ringer.

[COHIBA]

surfinusa, you know what? some people cant afford HK's. plain and simple. there are good hardworking people out there who for whatever reason dont have the kind of money to buy expensive guns. so do you think they should not exersise thier right as americans?
i ahve a good friend who actually buys his grandmother inlaws med's every month to the tune of about 400 bucks
i have a custome who married real young and has to support 3 kids in daycare.
i have a neighbor who was in a car wreck, to no fault of her own, who has spent over 6K bucks of her own money on medical bills panding a lawsuit.
so why do you feel it nessasary to come off w/ this rich boy "XYZ is crap" line.
i'll tell you what, i havent heard of bersas frame rails cracking.
i'v never seen a firestorms firing pin break in half from dry fire.
anyone ever seen a llama KABOOM?

[surfinUSA]

Cohiba,

Lets not get all weepy over the social ills of your friends especially the one that made a bad decision, married early and didn't know enough to use birth control until they could afford those kids.

Now lets get back to the real issue, compact pistols. Maybe Bersa has improved their product, I'll never know because I don't buy second tier junk. There isn't enough difference in price.

This thread is started by an individual that laid out his hard earned money and got less than he paid for. Misfires from quality factory ammo and a peeling finish. There's a first class recomendation to buy a gun. :rolleyes: In fact it basically goes along with the impression I got from these guns years ago.

Although I didn't mention it, it will be a cold day in hell before Llama is the same quality as a $180 mack. From what I've seen of Llamas, most don't work well enough to get to a Kaboom, those that do, break.

The fact that I don't buy junk and recommend that others don't either has nothing to do with the rights of others. I never said that cheap junk shouldn't be sold, only that I wouldn't buy it. It also has nothing to do with being rich, which I'm not. It has to do with getting the most for your money over a long period of time. Usually, if you buy the best you only have to spend your money once.

Finally, what do you have against being rich, its the communists that think we should all share equally in poverty?

[Ringer]

Since I started this thread I feel the need to respond again to some of these comments.

First, this purchase was not soley about money. I had enough funds to purchase a Sig. I was looking for a semi-auto with specific safety features that my wife and I could shoot together. Besides not having the features I wanted (for this particular purchase) :
Baretta 92F and Sig P226 - Too big for her
Baretta 9000S and Sig P239 - Too small for me
With what is left in my "gun fund" after this purchase i'm halfway to my next, which is likely a Sig P220.

Yes I was dissappointed because I had high expectations for this gun. But I also knew going in, it's $300 gun. At this point I wouldn't return if for money back even if I could. Like I said in previous post, new barrel is on the way. If the misfires continue to be a problem I'll send it back for service if I feel I need to.

SurfinUSA
You are welcome to your opinion. But the comments you made about "garbage" and "Junk" and the way you said them could certainly be offensive. I don't bruise easily, but it was like you were insuating anyone who bought one of these was basically stupid.

The purpose of this post was to both get some advice and share some information. Both are done to my satisfaction. I will report back after putting a couple hundred rounds through the new barrel.

Thanks

[makdaddy03]

No Im not Im just telling the TRUTH they are crap.:neener: Its your money buy what you want to buy. And dont say that you werent warned. To bad we dont have the bird finger as a smilie.:evil:

[surfinUSA]

Ringer,

I didn't mean to insult anyone. My previous experiences with both Llama and Bersa led me to the conclusion that these products were second rate at best (if you would prefer rather than junk). Your first post only confirmed my opinion.

Consequently, I offered suggestions from major manufacturers of quality firearms as an alternative.

Actually, the guns I was thinking of were the Sig 232 (380), Beretta 84/85 (380), and Walther/S&W PPK (380) as this thread was started about a 380. The glock 26 and 27 are only slightly larger than a 380 so I included them.

However the S&W 3913 is also and excellent compact 9mm as are the rugers compacts. Both can be had for reasonable amounts.

[Ringer]

surfinUSA
I agree the Bersa MiniFirestorm is not in the same league as Sig or Beretta....Glock, well that's a different ballpark :) .

I know a lot of people cringe when they hear the name Bersa. I have read a lot of good things about these MiniFirestorms, hence my initial disappointment. Time (and more trips to the range) will determine my overal impression of this gun. I'll post some follow ups, good or bad, but I'm not sure you are really open to listening if they are good. Sounds like you have a pretty strong opinion on them and I know those can be hard to overcome. I have no motivation to defend this gun if it turns out to be totally unreliable or problematic. I'll post my experience with it over time.

Oh, and just to clarify, this thread was started about 9mm not a .380.

Still saving my pennies fot a Stainless P220 with Rail !

[surfinUSA]

Sorry, That is definately my error. I always associate Bersa with 380s. I guess I'm even more biased against them than I thought. However, all the guns I suggested make even better 9mms, 40s and 45s than they do 380s.

Don't hesitate to get the SIG 220. I love mine although the DA trigger pull is heavier than I'd like.

[Akurat]

:::Sigh:::...What arrogance.

I'd stake my life on a Bersa(and do)..

Some people are just too thick headed to realize that the markings on the side of their guns don't automatically insure safety or even good performance. The Mini 9 has great features..its compact, ambi safety the right place, good ergonomics, reliable, inexpensive, fun to shoot and accurate to boot(hey that rhymes).

For the last time, its not a Llama. We all aknowledge that Llamas are P.O.S.' Nice try though. ;)

[surfinUSA]

Akurat,

It has nothing to do with arrogance or the mis reading of caliber. Ringers first post said it all. Bersa used to build crap and it now appears that they still do.

If we are going to discuss quality guns lets start with the premise that they don't misfire on quality factory ammo and don't peel their nickel finish on the first outing.

My first posts still stands, you want a compact 9mm that always works, is always accurate buy a Beretta, HK, Glock or Sig. If you want to save money and still get those same qualities get a S&W or a Ruger.

The rest is just that, the rest. Curiosities that will make you wonder why you didn't spend a couple of more dollars for a real gun. The cops and the military don't always have the best but usually they do. Bersa has been around for years, yet I can't think of a single third world military of police organization that uses them, let alone a real military or police organization (I guess that makes me biased against third world police and military organizations too).

[PCRCCW]

Excuse me....Your a walking opinion....and a wrong one at that!. I could just let you ramble and keep putting your foot in your mouth...but feel compelled to assist you alittle.

Bersa made the Thunder years ago...a good copy of the Walther. The gun was anything but soft, inaccurate or undependable.

They were gaining popularity when the ban came about....instead of neutering the gun and importing it still..Bersa had the balls to say..."We dont want to sell a gun that is fullsized that only shoots 10 rounds"....so they stopped importing them!

Ive shot one for about 15+ years and its as nice as my CZ, Kimber, Sig or any Beretta Ive shot. Nicer than most of the Beretta's Ive shot or owned.

You know before I started ranting about CZ's on TFL years ago...very few people knew what they were also I used to here stuff about them too...JUST LIKE THE CRAP YOUR SPREADING AROUND! Now LOTS of people who own Sigs, HK's and the likes are singing their praises....HIGHLY! My little PCR's will shoot/outshoot any of the higher priced compacts. Funny years ago they were just imported junk!
RIGHT?

Do a little actual talking to people who know about the guns, their actual quality and the company and history before proclaiming "truths according to me"!

Bersa is a good little gun company and makes a very nice little gun.

You are just another typical keyboard shooter as well another ignorant gun snob.....Shoot well

[The Mighty Beagle]

SURFINUSA,

So you recommend a "police or military gun", and everything else is crap because:

1. Cops are somehow all-knowing pistol experts and gurus of small-arms combat.

2. We all know they shoot every other day, and all have an intense personal interest in firearms.

3. This explains why Police and military organizations only buy the very best of the best autos, the creme of the crop, like HK P7M8's, Sig P210's, and Walther P88's, and Manhurin revolvers, since they know so darned much about pistols. And price is never an object. They know that anything less must be inherently dangerous and unreliable.


Hmmm, interesting thing is, a lot of cops around here are carrying BERSA'S as back-up guns and as off-duty guns. A state trooper I know wants to exchange his 4006 for a Firestorm Mini .40. I even saw an armored car security guard at Wal-Mart carrying a moneybag to his vehicle with - gasp - a BERSA MINI FIRESTORM on his hip!

Why oh why won't all of these people listen to you SurfinUSA? Maybe they know something you don't?

So, since you recommended a "police gun", I guess I'll run out and buy another Bersa.

[shootist2121]

Ringer...Enjoy your firearm.

I don't give a hoot about what some others may say about Bersa's. I own a older 383 Bersa and enjoy the heck out of it. I even own one of those cheap Hungarian PA-63's and quite frankly it won't bite your hand like a Watlther will. Both have seen over 500 rounds each without anything breaking and I don't recall a jam or misfire from either.

I've shot a lot of llama's too ..Don't own one..Not as accurate as Colt, etc. But I wouldn't want to be on the other end either. Most problems I've seen are on the newer models with feeding HP's.

Sig's..Can't beat them with a stick..LOL..Pricy though.

Walthers..Shoot great, accurate, but will bite the hand especially if you have big hands.

Beretta's..The only time I ever had a firearm continuely jam..LOL But it was a range gun and I was positive the thing hadn't been cleaned since it left the factory..LOL

CZ's..Whole and out right the most under estimated firearm out there right now..Evey example I've fired so far..(3) has just about convinced me I need one...

I own Colt, Springfield and Browning too..Love my Hp's..Both Belg. and Argin.

So Ringer...When some one tells you that something is crap, Maybe it's because they envy you...Or maybe the crap they are talking about is between their ears and keeps the mind closed shut.

But do stay away from the zinc stuff..They have their purpose, but are disposable and not meant to be use much at all.

Be safe and enjoy.




:cool: :cool:

[surfinUSA]

First of all, for any of you pistol experts extolling bersa (great you laid out $250-300 for a hand gun and put a couple of boxes of ammon through it). Individual officers and securtiy guards (under educated and under paid, there's an expert for you) don't mean much. There alot of cops that don't shoot and alot more security guards that will buy the cheapest gun they can.

Its the organizations that matter. Every manufacturer I have suggested has been used by major police departments or military organizations.

Those of you that are actually old enough to purchase a handgun may have even been told by someone that was an adult in 1975 that when the CZ 75 was introduced 28 years ago it was considered one of the finest if not the finest 9mm made by many experts including Mr. 45, Jeff Cooper. If anything they have gotten even better.The ill fated Bren ten was based on this design. There is no comarison between the CZ and a Bersa. And a classic like the High Power is once again no comparison and to sugest one is boardering on heresy. Thousands of examples of this fine gun and its predessesor the 1911 have not only with stood the test if time but have had hundreds of thousands of rounds put down their pipes.

Mighty beagle the SIG 210 (swiss army and their police, replaced by another SIG) and HKp7 (NJ state police) have been used by major police and military organizations. Walther, of couse has an entire history of inovation and cutting edge technology in use with military and police organizations around the world.

Name just one police or military organization willing to trust the lives of their members and save their tax payers money that issue a Bersa.

And as far as Bersa having the "balls" to take themselves out of the most profitable private purchase handgun market in the world over a 10 round mag capacity, Thats nothing but nonsense. Their sales just weren't cutting it.

The fact that I disagree with some of you as to the merits or shortcommings of a given firearm have led you to the false assumption that I haven no experience with your favorite cheap blaster. The reality is that over many years I have done a substantial amount of research.

Although I may not at this time own an example of every gun I have recommended. I do have extensive experience with them, that has been postive, otherwise I wouldn't recommend them (even to internet commandos that will probably never be in harms way). Conversely, if I took the time to write this many posts negatively reflecting on a gun or guns its because I had sufficient experience with more than one example of a gun that was unfavorable.

[Onslaught]

Individual officers and securtiy guards (under educated and under paid, there's an expert for you) don't mean much. There alot of cops that don't shoot and alot more security guards that will buy the cheapest gun they can.
I wouldn't recommend them (even to internet commandos that will probably never be in harms way).
And what is it exactly you do that puts you in such a superior position as to be able to share such a condescending view of all the other board members here?

Unlike most other sites you may have visited, there aren't a lot of <18 year olds, but there are a lot of LEO's, and there are a lot of folks, both male and female, who have very extensive experience with firearms. What we DON'T have a lot of is insults and unneccessary namecalling.

So when can we next expect that YOU will be going into harm's way to acquire even more of that firearms omnipotence.... Dude?

[surfinUSA]

Been doing it every day for the last 22 years.

Actually,I didn't mean to be condesending or insulting to all of the board members. The internet commandos know who they are.

I can't think of any LEOs that base there firearms decisions on what security guards are carrying. Its not a matter of superiority, check out the local want ads for the requirements on security guards. If you still want to base your firearms descions on what they purchase (individuals not companies, as the company will usually go with the S&W revolver) feel free.

So onslaught, exactly which recommendations that I have made do you disagree with? Its a pretty safe bet that all of the LEOs on this board are carrying an example of one of the guns I've suggested as a primary weapon. Its also just as likely that none of the plainclothes or UC guys are carrying Bersa as a primary weapon either.

[Handy]

I am struck by the fact that Surfin' is a Bersa expert, based on his experience with a blowback .380, yet we are talking about a recoil operate 9mm that is a completely different design.

And before you pipe up about your extensive evaluations of all Bersa products based on shooting their .380 offering, consider:

Should a Walther P88 be judged on the quality of Interarms PPKs and P22s?

Should the durability of the HK USP be based on the .380 HK4?

Do the bolt failures of the Blaser 93 indicate that all Sig products are poorly executed junk?

How about the feed reliability of some Beretta pocket guns?


In essense, you are taking your very limited knowledge of one model gun and painting the entire line with it. As I've seen P99 threads that start exactly the same way, there is no reason to assume that this post is indicative of anything. I have never read anything but positives about the Thunder9, or even the 383.

You're going to have to offer a little more evidense if you don't want to just sound like a crank.


And what is a "first tier gun" anyway, aside from one with good sales? The CZ and XD were just cheap products from former Bloc states until they got big. And the Glock was produced by a showerrod maker. Reputation and sales numbers are the whole game. If the Bersa stuff continues to do well, it will be included in such wise statements like "get a quality gun like an HK, Sig or Bersa."

[shootist2121]

Gentlemen!...Gentlemen! Let's give surfinUSA a break. Appaently he does not live in the same environment as some of us.
He is entitled to his opinion. He thinks we're wrong and he's right.

I say we're all right. If you read enough posts you will find negative comments on just about any quality firearm made.

But I will say from a defensive stand point. The reciever of a gun shot will not care if it is a high cost Sig, or a Davis P-32. The fact that the gun want bang and put a hole in some one does.

ps. surfinUSA ...I know two undercover officers personally from the range I shoot at here. .One carry's a Mak and the other actuall a charter Arms 38..Why?....Because they aren't cop guns..I asked because like a fool I assumed they be carrying glocks or Berretta..I don't think they be carrying something that didn't work for them.

Just my opinion though...LOL





;) :cool: ;)

[The Mighty Beagle]

I find this thread hilarious.

I suspect there's only one under-18 "internet commando" on here and I think we all know who it is. It's the guy who knows nothing about the posted subject, but he wants to horn in so he posts irrelevant straw-man arguments that he can refute to get a rise out of otherwise peace-loving folks who just want to own a cheap 9mm for pleasure shooting.

SurfeRama, I can assure you that police organizations are indeed "involved" in the choice of backup/off-duty weapons for their officers. They don't just let individuals carry whatever they wish, but rather such models are typically tested and approved by their respective departments. Therefore, they ARE chosen by said "organizations". I'm surprised you didn't know that, since you lead us to believe you are an LEO.

Really though, does it even matter?
"Organizations" buy a one-siz-fits-all kinda gun, and usually all that means is they end up equalizing all the officers into mediocrity. I used the examples such as the HK P7 to illustrate to you that these "organizations" seldom purchase the best gun available, but instead choose the cheapest gun. Otherwise, every officer would carry something better than a Beretta or a Glock. I would much rather listen to individuals than take heed from some "organization". "Organizations" don't get in gunfights, or plink. People do.

The next time you feel cocky about your expensive Smith/Glock/Beretta and want to lord it over some people, remember there will always be some guy out there with a P210 or P7, laughing at you behind your back. He thinks you a joker and "need to get rid of that mass-marketed 'junk'" you're flaunting.

As a gun snob, you're kinda low-rent.

Surf 'n Turf, as for you graciously taking all the time and trouble to write your responses, exactly what kind of police work do you do that allows you to sit at a computer all day?

Shouldn't you be out on the "mean streets" right now busting the "bad guys"? Who will protect us when the "bricks hit the pan" if you're screwing around on here all day?

I salute you though, you're certainly TACTI-COOL.

[surfinUSA]

Mighty beagle I could ask you the same queation. Oh and I guess that you live in the only juridiction in the country with one shift.

Most departments I know evaluate the guns that their people are permitted to carry. I don't know of a single department that permits Bersa, Macs or charter arms on or off duty as a primary or back up gun. Some issue a single brand, others like my department approve a variety for various preferences and hand sizes.

Our department went through an extensive evaluation period before approving the listed weapons. Surprisingly the P7 didn't do as well as you would have imagined and was not approved (personally, I rated it highest in my evaluations of the tested pistols in 1989). I think it was thought by some to be to unconventional.

Currently we can carry Colt, Smith or Ruger revolvers. For autos it Smith, Ruger, Sig, Beretta or HK in 9mm 40 and 45. The surrounding departments issue SIG, Beretta and Glock and permit the issued gun for off duty or a derivitive thereof, Some still permit the Smith J frame.

Aside from your argument's lack of substance. Basically That I don't like your gun so I don't know anything about guns (that about sum it up for you), Now how about answering the question I've posed some posts back that you continually fail to answer and side step.

How about the name of that one police department or military establishment using your highly praised weapon.

[The Mighty Beagle]

No substance? DUDE, you've never even fired one Firestorm Mini, let alone enough samples to adjudge all Bersas as "junk". That makes you the King of No Substance.

I think you need to answer MY question - how are you able to be on here all the time if you're an LEO?

Unlike you, I never represented to others on here that I was a 'gun carrying professional', so why don't you provide us with your impressive credentials? Afraid of ticking off the REAL LEO's on this board? Or did you overplay that hand?

[surfinUSA]

Mighty Beagle,
I guess the cops in your neighborhood only work 8-4, Around here we have shifts 24 hours a day not everyone works days. What did you cut school to be here?

And where's the name of that police organization, I'll tell you where, there isn't one, not a single one, so it doesn't realy matter whether or not you agree with me.

I've explained the policy of my department and surrounding jurisdictions. The fact remains that everything about every gun and its professional users that I have stated here is well documented facts verifiable with any large PD (the brand name will be different but the guns will still be one of the ones I've cited.)

Not only aren't you a professional, you're just talking out your butt. Go smoke another dubie with your little friends and enjoy the rest of Jerry Springer "Dude". Maybe this weekend your Dad will let shoot another gun and next week we can discuss the merits of that one too.

Of course you guys are right the Bersa is a great gun as indicated by the post that started this thread.:rolleyes:

[Intune]

High Road guys. This one's gonna get locked. Does a dept have to approve a weapon to give it merit? Does Beretta make a good shotgun? Do your locals use it?

[Fair 'n Square]

Apparently SurfinUSA isn't really a LEO, just a troublemaker.

[Handy]

I don't think any amount of credential flashing is going to make any difference to the subject at hand.

Are Bersa 9mm's crap?

Most say "no, great gun."

One guy says "yes, and I've never fired one!"


Who cares if he is the butcher, baker or candlestick maker? All anyone has to go on in a forum like this is if they make sense or not. I'd rather listen to a logical gynecologist than a stupid cop on this, or any other subject.

[The Mighty Beagle]

Heh heh sorry High Road brethren, I hope my arguing hasn't rubbed you all the wrong way, but everyone's gotta have a little fun once in a while.

Surfin'USA, on behalf of my Dad and his guns he lets me shoot, my "dubie"-smoking buddies, my butt (with which I talk out of), and my truancy officer, WE SALUTE YOU, NOBLE WARRIOR. Thanks for a good time and no hard feelings, ok? Keep on truckin'.

Beagle Out.

[surfinUSA]

No hard feelings here. Hell most of us probably are in agreement about most other guns. Thats why we're on these boards.

Maybe next time we can discuss the merits of Hi points. Or then again maybe something a little less contraversial. Later.

[Ringer]

I received my new barrel on Friday :) , just in time to go to the range this weekend, or so I thought.

In Michigan you have to have handguns "safety inspected" within 10 days of purchase, that's after getting a "purchase permit" prior to purchase that is good for 10 days. I had contacted my local police earlier in the week and they said the officer that does the inspections works midnights and will be doing inspections Saturday night. They instructed me to drop it off Saturday and I could pick it up Sunday. I wasn't thrilled about leaving my gun overnight, but I had no choice and figured I would go to the range Sunday picking the gun up on the way. So I show up this morning to pick it up and when I gave her my name and she picked up this piece of paper with a long note on it I knew it wasn't good. She tells me that one of the serial numbers on one of the copies of the "purchase permit" had been filled in incorectly by the seller. I was sure that I had verified this when I bought the gun but I must have missed this mistake on one of the three copies. Evidently 1 number was different, or possibly unledgeable I was thinking, but all she had to go on was the note.

Hence my 3rd bummer: My local police now have my gun and won't return it until they get this straightened out. :cuss:

I know this has nothing to do with the gun itself, but I'm starting to feel like there is a message here. Oh well, hopefully I'll get it back this week and make it back to the range. Luckily I had already packed my .357 so I was able to continue on to the range this morning.

Just venting!

[355sigfan]

Since when do any of them make an equivelent gun to the Mini series? Instead, they focus on making a bunch of bigger, blockier guns having the ergonomics of a brick.

END

Realy ever heard of the sig 239, Glock 26, Beretta 92M, HK USP Compact. The list is bigger than that. Don't buy crap like llama and Bersa then cry because it performs like crap.
PAT

[surfinUSA]

Damn, and you guys though I was harsh.

[wun_8_seven]

imho bersa may not be as high quality or stand up to hard use as well sig, hk etc,etc. but for a budget priced little piece they aint all bad. i keep one in my RV and i was a leo for 22 years too. would i carry one as a duty gun? probably not, but i wouldn't hesitate to defend myself with it if need be. i also thought makarovs looked like junk till i shot one, now i have three. 187 p.s. i carried an hk usp40 or sig 220 for the last 7 years before i retired

[Handy]

Hey Pat,

The gun in question is a .45. The only manufacturer on your list that makes a similar size gun is Glock in that chambering.

[355sigfan]

Hey Pat,

The gun in question is a .45. The only manufacturer on your list that makes a similar size gun is Glock in that chambering.

END

Realy what about the Sig 245 or the Beretta mini cougar in 45 acp.
PAT

[Handy]

The 245 might be close (but is still larger), but have you looked at the width of a Cougar slide?


Really.

[355sigfan]

I don't have a lot of empathy I carry a full sized Kimber 1911 for undercover work and it hides just fine.
PAT

[Handy]

So instead of carrying a crappy Bersa, you carry a gun well known to have safety levers break off?


Or have you upgraded to the model that doesn't always disengage the drop safety?

[355sigfan]

Well the very few problems Kimber has had with MIM parts are very minor compared to the total POS that Bersa's are. My gun has been going strong and is the choice of other law enforcment officers. The only cheap guns I would trust is Rugers P series. Other than that if you spend less than $500 retail your going to get a pos like the original posters Bersa.
PAT

[Handy]

Well, you go ahead and do a search on Kimber problems and Bersa problems. Even with the obvious difference in sales numbers, you'll find no support for such broad statements.

Believe whatever you like, but if you were actually selecting a gun on its reputation for near flawless reliabiliy, you wouldn't be betting your life on Kimber. That in itself makes your opinion of what is and isn't "crap" really questionable.


I have no doubt there are alot of flawlessly performing Kimbers out there. But when you go into the gun shop, those particular weapons aren't labeled any different than the ones that jam, break parts or drop the hammer on a firing pin stop.

[The Mighty Beagle]

Pat, first of all, I don't appreciate your tone.

Maybe being an undercover toughguy or whatever has stressed you out? At any rate, yes I did look at the guns you mention, and if you had actually looked at a Firestorm before commenting, you would know that most of your guns are larger in at least some dimension, and except for the 239, are all clubby feeling to me. I liked the 239, but it wasn't any smaller. And Glocks? Are you kidding me? What a joke, I'll never own one of those, unless I want to shoot some ceiling tiles or something, what with that funky grip angle and NO SAFETY.

Let's analyze some more of your statements, shall we?

"Well the very few problems Kimber has had with MIM parts are very minor compared to the total POS that Bersa's are."

HAHAHAHAHAHA, the Kimber Custom Classic I owned was fraught with reliability problems right outta the box ... I'd say the MIM parts were a MAJOR problem for me. I sold that jammamatic and didn't look back. If that's the best you can recommend, I'll stick with Bersa, thanks.

"... other law enforcment officers."

Frankly, I'm not LE and don't care what you or any other LEO carries, it probably wasn't even your choice to begin with.


"The only cheap guns I would trust is Rugers P series."

Big, blocky, not anywhere in the size range of the Mini Firestorm. And, I've already got one, a P94. Try concealing it, you'll pull your hair out.


"Other than that if you spend less than $500 retail your going to get a pos like the original posters Bersa."

Sigh. That's pretty silly Patsy. Have you looked at a Taurus PT92? Many can be had for around $300 if you look. The FN Forty-Nine is going for around $300 as well. I purchased a Star BM 9mm for $200 that is totally reliable and quite nice.

[Ringer]

I didn't mean to start another argument over which guns are quality and which one's are not by bringing this thread back to the top. Seems to be an awfully touchy subject for some folks. I've already listed my reasons for buying this gun.

Anyway, I just wish my local Law Enforcement Agency would give my POS back so I can go shoot it :).

[Mal H]

And we'll give Ringer the last word on the subject. It is readily apparent that this thread isn't going to hop back onto the high road and through no fault of Ringer's who was only trying to comment on the quality of his pistol and perhaps to elicit a little advice not criticism.