Which "large" cities do not frown upon open-carry?


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Airweight
April 28, 2003, 03:22 AM
Just came back from a trip to Phoenix and saw people open-carry in the downtown area.

What cities allow legal open-carry and do not overwhelming frown upon the practice (culturally)? Are there any cities where the LEO supports open-carry, even in the face of antagonistic sheeple?

I am only interested in cities that reside in shall-issue states.

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Wildalaska
April 28, 2003, 03:41 AM
Anchorage Alaska is located in a shall issue state. Open carry is legal. Nobody bothers and nobody makes an issue out of it, either way.

And I think that open carry in a modern urban downtown environment is stupid. Most Alaskans think the same way. And we are not "sheeple".

WildihatethetermsheepleAlaska

PATH
April 28, 2003, 03:51 AM
Forget about anywhere in the State of New York!

Admiral Thrawn
April 28, 2003, 03:54 AM
It's interesting that trying to get a CCW permit in the largest three cities in the US is a pain in the a*s!

(New York, Los Angeles, Chicago)

WonderNine
April 28, 2003, 04:30 AM
And I think that open carry in a modern urban downtown environment is stupid.

Only when others don't carry as well!

stevelyn
April 28, 2003, 10:00 AM
I've seen a few crusty old miners and trappers carrying openly in and about Fairbanks. Nobody seems to get wigged out about it though.

Oracle
April 28, 2003, 10:04 AM
It's not a terribly common thing, but you do see people carrying openly in and around Atlanta, GA. To carry off of private property, either openly or concealed, you need a carry permit (and it is shall-issue), but, if you have that, you can carry openly pretty much anywhere it is legal to carry (no bars, public buildings such as courthouses, and no "gatherings of people" such as a baseball game). Most people (myself included) generally carry concealed, though.

El Tejon
April 28, 2003, 10:13 AM
Observed it downtown Indy from time to time.

Good idear to cover it up even if don't have to.:)

J Miller
April 28, 2003, 12:01 PM
Just a question.

Why do you guys dislike open cary? I lived in Phoenix for over 40 years, and carried open.

Why?
First, because untill about 10 or so years ago AZ did not have a CCW law. It was open cary only.
Second, because by being able to legally do so I was not required to pay a fortune in fees and costs to ask permission of the STATE to cary a concealed weapon.
During the times I open carried, I never had one bit of trouble. Never.
Got some strange looks from out of Staters, but never a problem.
Not with the cops, or bankers, or anyone.
Although the looks I got when I carried my 1911 cocked & locked were pricless :D.

Yes I know things are changing, but when I move back to AZ, I will open carry again.
I'll be damned if I'm going to jump through the hoops just to get a permit to do something concealed, that I can legally do open.

Oh, if your argument is that the BG's will see you are armed and then attack you and take your gun, it doesn't wash. Faulty argument. If the BG knows you are armed, he'll go to a less dangerous target.
Don't tell me the cops don't like it either. Too bad. If it's legal, then the cops have no grounds to harrass you. Unless you are acting in a hostile or agressive manner. In other words in an open cary state, simply carrying a gun openly is not Probable Cause.

Observed it downtown Indy from time to time.
Open carry in Indiana??????? Really???????? With or without a permit? Gotta check that out.

Jesse H
April 28, 2003, 01:13 PM
Oh, if your argument is that the BG's will see you are armed and then attack you and take your gun, it doesn't wash.

If I were a badguy, and my bunch of well armed friends intent on robbing a bank happened to storm into a bank and see a cop or anybody open carrying...they would definately get my attention first.

Sure if I was the average mugger with a knife, I wouldn't bother with somebody with a pistol on their hip.

I wouldn't mind if Texas allowed open carry, but mainly for convenience just in case I was printing or flashed my pistol while reaching or bending over.

El Tejon
April 28, 2003, 02:02 PM
J Miller, as long as you have the little pink card, you can carry however you so choose. There is no concealment requirement at least here. However, many Sheriffs (and I know one County Attorney who tells his Sheriff to say this) tell licensees that they must cover it up. There is a requirment to begin each sentence with "Dammit, boy", to keep current with basketball standings, and to keep certified in a euchre league.

Carried openly here, in Kentuc (ever go to the Shoney's at Knob Creek?), and GWR. No big deal depending on where you be. Just prefer to cover up that thar hawglaig for retention, profile/surprise, and fashion (my blued gun clashes with my charcoal gray suit-what a fox paw). YMMV.:D

benewton
April 28, 2003, 02:04 PM
Question: if you accidently flash, does that constitute open carry???

CatsDieNow
April 28, 2003, 02:28 PM
J Miller,

Just to clairify what El Tejon said, Indiana issues a "License to Carry Handgun" not a concealed carry permit.

In 4-6 weeks after you sucessfully apply and pay your $25, you get a pink sheet of copy paper which contains your license. You have to cut the card out of the paper and laminate it yourself. (This amuses me to no end).

Anyway, mine says "The Licensee is hereby licensed by the Indiana State Police Department to carry on their person or in a vehicle, any handgun lawfully possessed by Licensee." and later "Not vaild on commercial aircraft"

I am not looking forward to getting a Texas CHL. ~$250 and training class. :(

Euchre. I miss that game. ;)

CZ-75
April 28, 2003, 02:44 PM
Oh, if your argument is that the BG's will see you are armed and then attack you and take your gun, it doesn't wash. Faulty argument. If the BG knows you are armed, he'll go to a less dangerous target.

I'm afraid your argument is faulty because it's rational. Do you expect that criminals are always going to be rational?

Moreover, harkening back to the Old West, it wasn't too uncommon for the rational types to kill their target with a shot in the back. Wild Bill Hickock, John Wesley Hardin, and Jesse James didn't die looking their assailant in the eyes.

Drjones
April 28, 2003, 03:14 PM
Just came back from a trip to Phoenix and saw people open-carry in the downtown area.

Really? :what:

Whoa!

If I ever saw people open carrying, I'd be pointing and staring!

And then I'd tell them, "don't mind me sir, I'm from CA..."

:rolleyes:

:(

spacemanspiff
April 28, 2003, 03:34 PM
the only times i have open carried is when i'm taking a drive down the seward highway and will be getting out to hike off the highway. stopped in girdwood, bought a disposable camera, fed the kids some lunch at a diner, no one noticed or no one cared, i couldnt tell which. this last winter i open carried (before recieving my ccw) when taking the kids sledding. one other kid noticed and asked if it was real. no fuss no muss.

one time i open carried to go pickup a firearm i had transferred to the pawn shop a block away from my office. but that was only because i had room in my carrying case for one handgun. walked up to spenard from minnesota/benson to the pawn shop, no cars swerved out of fright, nor did the pawn shop owner really care.

Drjones
April 28, 2003, 03:42 PM
no cars swerved out of fright, nor did the pawn shop owner really care.

Yes, but how many children did your gun kill that day??? :uhoh:

:rolleyes:

Navy joe
April 28, 2003, 03:56 PM
Richmond, VA has learned to accept that it cannot do a thing if people want to open carry inside the statehouse even. I open carry occasionally, lately when going to/from pistol matches and feeling too lazy to change clothes. For every person that gets wide-eyed there are ten people who never see it. It is less common in my area of Hampton Roads, but still done by myself and others.

I accept the fact that open carry has slight tactical disadvantages in that you do not have the luxury of a brief mental lapse that you might while CCW'ing. Everyone knows you have a gun. Being the center of attention is also bad. I don't think it makes me a criminal magnet though. When I open carry I accept the slight disadvantage for the sake of training. Training me to be hyper-alert while appearing very calm and personable, training them that guns aren't evil.

No need to bash open carriers(pre-emptive, hasn't happened yet), the responsible open carriers are advancing your right just by carrying a gun. It moves the whole armed citizen debate from political pie in the sky to fact the opposition must deal with. Much as a leftist politician wouldn't do well in a high gunrack to pick-up ratio area, the world would be a better place if more folks open carried.

When open carrying I am free to wear my tasteful gun shirts and hats. Additionally I go on a charm offensive to appear nice and unthreatening to anyone who takes interest. Many people want to talk about it, so you get to do some street level firearms law training. Others see the gun, not the carry and want to talk about it(TFL'ers?). Some just want to BS about the color of the sky. Usually rather taciturn(no not tactical), I make the effort to smile a lot when open carrying.

Open carry don'ts:
-Camo/Black BDU's
-Constantly checking your gun
-Looking mean and tactical
-Wearing your guns don't kill people, I kill people t-shirt.

Standing Wolf
April 28, 2003, 05:53 PM
All other things being equal, I'd rather carry openly than concealed: you can carry more gun more comfortably, and I believe it would do the nation good to see law-abiding American firearms owners exercising the Second Amendment safely and sensibly.

Drjones
April 28, 2003, 05:57 PM
Standing Wolf:

I agree.

If a majority of people carried openly, that would be ideal.

Until then, with open carriers remaining a VERY small minority (at least in most parts) I still consider it an unwise choice, tactically speaking.

Darrin
April 28, 2003, 07:31 PM
I was just having a similar conversation this weekend with a local gun shop owner.

I asked why more people didn't carry in the open. His response was, "It only takes one person to see your gun and call the police. Yes, once the officer gets there and checks things out, you'll be free to carry on with your business. However, you will have lost an hour of your life to the whole mess."

I saw a guy at my bowling alley whom was open-carrying. I just thought it was cool he carried. No one in the building thought twice about it.

I should have my permit within the next month or so. I guess I'll cross the "bridge of open-carry" at that time. :uhoh:

GhostShooter
April 28, 2003, 07:33 PM
I keep being told that I can walk through downtown Columbus with open carry (at least that's what the anti-ccw lawyers are arguing in the Ohio Supreme Court) don't think I'd want to be the one to try it though.
:uhoh:

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/2M16.gif

willp58
April 28, 2003, 09:16 PM
Benewton asks:
Question: if you accidently flash, does that constitute open carry???

NYS insists on concealed carry...In fact more than one hunter has gotten into trouble with his open carry hunting rig.

They go so far on this that if your rig "prints" ..that could be considered open carry -- in other words "BRANDISHING"..

They issue a permit for life or until revoked but by God, you better not make too many mistakes.

And forget NYC, you won't get a permit at all.

Peter Gun
April 28, 2003, 10:53 PM
You occasionally see people here in Vt open carry. But since you can carry concealed w/out a permit, few people choose to expose themselves that way. I open carry my SRH when hiking, but because of work and other practical considerations I carry my sig229 concealed. Mostly the guys I see open carrying are older guys w/ big revolvers. I think they are mostly making a point to the "flatlanders" about the true nature of VT. I've never seen anyone open carry in Burlington (the only city, pretty liberal) except a news reporter who was trying to see the reaction for a story. Apparently, nobody cared.

mrstang01
April 29, 2003, 02:25 AM
Drjones, this is not flame at you, but if we gun owners don't start carrying openly, how will the numbers ever change? I've asked this same question before, just today I dropped a vest over my 1911 because I didn't want to be bothered by a sheeple baa'ing for the sheep dogs to come pull the big bad wolf's fangs.

Yes, it's legal in KY, but like Darrin says, it takes time out of the day. If the police and prosecutor are anti enough, you still might take a charge of going armed to the terror of the public. Sure, you'll probably beat it, but can you afford what it will cost?

These are all questions we have to answer for ourselves. I try to open carry whenever I can, and I try to make myself increase the amount of time and places I do this.

Saw a guy yesterday in Meyers in L'ville, and I tipped my hat to him. I was on my way to work, so mine was concealed.

Michael

Airweight
April 29, 2003, 03:03 AM
though i agree much is lost by carrying openly, i also agree much can be gained. the more people carry openly, the more others will see that a large cross-section of law-abiding citizens support and exercise their 2nd amendment rights. by carrying concealed, i would feel i was trying to hide something because it would scare or upset those that are unfamiliar with firearms. i can see it from both ways, but i feel we are losing our rights so fast in so many states that keeping our guns concealed only hastens the process by which antis can incrementally take our guns away.

TallPine
April 29, 2003, 11:13 AM
You occasionally see people here in Vt open carry. But since you can carry concealed w/out a permit, few people choose to expose themselves that way.

Does that imply that there are more than a few people who expose themselves in some other way ....? ;)

Oleg Volk
April 29, 2003, 11:52 AM
In TN, restaurants which serve alcohol are off-limits. Other states might have other exclusions. For that reason, concealed is often better. However, at least in Nashville, carrying openly at a gas station or a restaurant which doesn't serve alcohol gets no second glance from anyone.

Darrin
April 29, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Oleg Volk
In TN, restaurants which serve alcohol are off-limits I thought is was only places of business that made more than half it's income from alcohol. Meaning, O'Charlie's, Applebee's, etc... were ok to carry, but bars, pool-halls and such were off-limits.

I'll have to look that up again when I get home. :confused:

twoblink
April 29, 2003, 10:21 PM
Jesse,

I saw quite a few people open carry by the Alamo.

I asked a cop if that was legal, and he said "Actually, good question, I'm not too sure.. But I'm not about to arrest someone for carrying a gun in front of the Alamo!!" :p

So whatever the laws, always exceptions..

JCOJR
April 30, 2003, 12:37 PM
I believe you are confusing TN law with Texas law regarding establishments that serve drinks. The 50% rule is TX law (and some other states) but is not the case in TN.

There is a proposal before our august legislature to allow permit holders to carry in places that serve, but we'll have to wait and see.

Darrin
April 30, 2003, 01:58 PM
I guess I did confuse TX and TN. Oh, well.


Thanks for the clarification, JCOJR!

Drjones
April 30, 2003, 03:14 PM
Drjones, this is not flame at you, but if we gun owners don't start carrying openly, how will the numbers ever change?

No offense taken, and I agree with you.

:)

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