Do you think there is..M1


May 28, 2006, 10:39 AM

...chance that the US Military would go back to a round equal to or surpass the 30:06 for standard issue to all US combat troops. I know that it would be a heavy load. However, your fathers or grandfathers carried the load in WW2 to just about every Nation. You would carry a heavy load again but what a punch your rifle would have.
Just my .02 cents

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Deer Hunter
May 28, 2006, 10:47 AM
Run! Run while you still can! The poodle shooters are coming! The poodle shooters are coming!

Not likely going to happen. We're sticking with the 5.56 for a long time. We may upgrade to something heavier, but not much heavier.

May 28, 2006, 10:58 AM

Think about it If you wer to be shot in the torso with a 5.56 round do you really think you'ed have any more fight left in you than if you had been shot with M1 ball.......... Didn't think so.

5.56x45 will be the last cartrige the army ever adopts, it'll brobably be replaced with some form of caseless ammo or possibly the metalstorm system or mabye even with a directed energy weapon. There are a lot of VERY promising technologies currently in development.

May 28, 2006, 11:35 AM
It's not even likely that a 7.62x51 chambered rifle would be fielded widely and the U.S. has a lot of that round in stock with contracts for much more.

It is extremely unlikely that anything similar to 30.06 will ever be a general issue military round ever again.

Now, as a sniper round...maybe.

May 28, 2006, 11:49 AM
The trend has been to smaller, lighter, faster ever since the French 8mm Lebel was introduced in 1886. Get over it.

May 28, 2006, 11:51 AM
I would say for general issue, no. Alot of recruits would probably have a hard time qualifying with a round that powerful. Earlier generations seem to have had alot more shooting/hunting experience than is the case today. Therefore the M1 was an easier transition for them.

Also with modern infantry tactics firepower seems to be the primary concern and not advanced rifle marksmanship. Although there does seem to be a fair amount of M14s in use in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Just my two cents.


May 28, 2006, 12:26 PM
Depends on what happens with personal armor.

May 28, 2006, 12:31 PM
The trend has been to smaller, lighter, faster ever since the French 8mm Lebel was introduced in 1886

Actually before that.

.69 cal smoothbore to .58 cal Minie ball
.58 cal Minie ball to .50-70
.50-70 to .45-70
.45-70 to .30-40
.30-40 to .30-03
.30-03 to .30-06
.30-06 to .308 (an anamoly...a wash in bullet weight and velocity)
.308 to

I personally would like to see a small step up to heavier bullets...say the 6.8SPC...but that's it for general issue. I do think the designated marksman concept with the larger cartridge concept (at least 1 per squad) makes a lot of sense.

The Soviets with the 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R had the squad concept right IMHO...infantry general issue with an intermediate cartridge...light enough to carry lots and lay down fire superiority but heavy enough to make strong hits within 250 yards...a squad automatic machine gun in the same caliber to create a constant wall of lead to allow manuevering...a DM in a larger caliber to reach out and touch someone and/or punch thorugh hard cover.

That's how I'd construct a squad at least.

May 28, 2006, 01:26 PM
Since everything seems to run on batteries nowadays, I am guessing a lazer pulse rifle in the 40 watt range is in our future,,,,,,

May 29, 2006, 08:22 PM
Navy Seals use .50 BMG for long range sniping, but only when mission requirements preclude getting close enough for a .308 (about 800-1000 yards).
Our top sniper in Vietnam used a Remington 700 .308-7mm, which has more velocity than the .30-06, less energy, and equal or better ballistics.

As far as other countries, the top Canadian (longest shot ever in combat) used .50 BMG and the top off-continent shooter used .300 Win Mag during his military service and also to set the world record for breaking an egg at 1,000 yards with the fewest number of shots (yes, its in the Guiness BoWR).
Richard (

May 30, 2006, 07:59 AM
A friend of mine once referred to the '06 as "7.62 magnum". The '06 is a great cartridge, and at long ranges. The US Marines at Bellau Wood were taking out German troops at 500 to 800 yards with 1903 Springfield rifles with iron sights! (Totaly baffled the Germans by the way. :scrutiny: )

But today most engagements occur at 100 yards or less (most of the time less) and the '06 is just overkill. I can get plenty of knock-down power out of a 7.62x39 or even a 5.56 at these shorter ranges plus I can carry more of it due to reduced weight. As far as long rang work goes, 7.62x51 and .338 are good choices, and as the previous poster said... .50BMG!

I don't think 30.06 will be back any time soon in the military, but as a sport cartridge or as fodder for all the Garands that are out there it will never go away.


May 30, 2006, 12:22 PM
Seems like weight is not so much the issue (although we have had some mighty threads on the topic), but the issue of controlability on FA or burst fire.

May 30, 2006, 12:41 PM
total weight that soldiers have carried into combat hasn't changed drastically since the roman days up until very recently. generally speaking, soldiers are likely to carry the same weight of ammo into battle in the same situation but can be much more effective with an accurate, intermediate cartridge. the army calls this a combat multiplier. as much as some may pine for the old days when men were men and women... well, they were men too, we have learne some important lessons since 1906, paid for thos lessons in blood and won't likely be going back.

High Planes Drifter
May 31, 2006, 12:55 PM
At first thought I would agree with just about everyone here and say there is no way our military would go back with a .30 for standard infantry issue. But consider what owen said: Depends on what happens with personal armor..

Perhaps there will come a time when 5.56 is no longer able to defeat armor; perhaps there will be another issue that will demand the swing towards a larger, more powerfull caliber. Never say never. After all, it seems our military is returning to the .45.

Mikee Loxxer
May 31, 2006, 01:36 PM
I could be wrong but wasn't 7.62 NATO considered to be the ballistic equivalent of the 3006 ball cartridge used in WWII and Korea? The improvement in propellants allowed for the shorter case which was considered more suitable for autoloading actions than was 3006. If that is the case I can see them working with 7.62 NATO instead of going back to 3006.

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