perc. cap sizes


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bs32
June 1, 2006, 03:08 PM
What's the difference between a #10 and #11 cap? Which is larger?
Are ya supposed to use "magnum" caps with BP substitutes? or with paper cartridges?

b.

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dwave
June 1, 2006, 03:56 PM
The #10 cap is smaller than the #11, other than size there is no difference. As far as the Magnum caps, they are hotter than the regular caps and can help with the black subs and paper carts but they are not required to shoot subs.

Smokin_Gun
June 1, 2006, 04:41 PM
CCI#10 & 11's are a hair tighter in diameter and in length than REM#10 & 11's.
I have not heard any good results using Rem Magnum caps on any revlovers ... they Are made heavier for rifles front stuffers ... and the modern bolt rifles that are not muzzleloaders. Take more hammer power to set off.
Myself I use CCI on everything I have...mostly 11's. I have one old ASP 1858 Rem that 10's fit perfect on.

dwave
June 1, 2006, 05:24 PM
I used #11 CCI Magnums on my Pietta '51 .36 and I had no problems at all setting them off. I didn't have a single misfire with them.

Smokin_Gun
June 1, 2006, 05:40 PM
It's good to hear about the CCI#11 Mag cps working well. I have never had a need to use a magnum cap to fire any revolvers, but will keep them in mind. But I do believe I specified REM Magnums:
CCI#10 & 11's are a hair tighter in diameter and in length than REM#10 & 11's.
I have not heard any good results using Rem Magnum caps on any revlovers ... they Are made heavier for rifles front stuffers ... and the modern bolt rifles that are not muzzleloaders. Take more hammer power to set off.
Myself I use CCI on everything I have...mostly 11's. I have one old ASP 1858 Rem that 10's fit perfect on.

edggy
June 1, 2006, 06:24 PM
I took my Revolver cylinder to a local gunshop and had it fitted with the right cap (this people were exceptionally nice and tried every cap they had to make sure) thats just my two cents

dwave
June 1, 2006, 07:11 PM
Smokin_Gun, just making sure that he knows the #11 CCI Mags work just fine on revolvers. I can't get Remmington caps around here, my local store doesn't carry them so I can't really say anything about the Remmingtons anyways.

Smokin_Gun
June 1, 2006, 09:13 PM
None a the local stores around town here carry REMS either. One Gunshop looked them up and said with lot size and hazmat fees it would be close to $170 for an order. And only #11 were available. I tried some had bad luck on most Revs...and good luck on my 1836 Paterson...(which a good friend now has.)
I guess it's what ever work and/or what ever you can get and make work...those are the caps you need...HeHe!

pohill
June 1, 2006, 09:42 PM
Hey, SG, does Walmart carry Remington caps out there in the Fall? They
carry them back this way. I like them - they seem thinner and split easier. I used the CCI magnums on my Walker but it made my headache from the Walker worse. Ever try the Tap o Caps? I think I might have told you that the only gun they work on is the 1860 Army .44 (Pietta). I can use #10 CCI on my Walker but not on the 1860 or 1851, which is strange. I gotta get that Paterson out of bed and shooting again real soon. Great gun.

Smokin_Gun
June 1, 2006, 10:08 PM
Walmarts out here told me they never sold Caps or anything like it in that store...Big 5 either....
I read about the tap o caps...cool. Did you try match heads?
Get that Paterson out there man, I know it's nice to look at and fondle.
But one reason we traded was so Ms. Paterson and Shophia Rem would be gettin more dancin time in...Now I know Sophia is...HeHe!
Pain to clean the Paterson sometimes. Actually with the floor plate under the cylinder and hammer nothng really gets in there...that was engineering genoius on Sam's part. So no excuse now take her out dancin at the range.
:evil:

Howdy Doody
June 1, 2006, 10:26 PM
Ya know I tried them all, including RWS 10.75 and I keep going back to remington #10 caps for the reliabilty of having every one go off. I shoot CAS.
I get mine from Dixie Gun Works and they don't charge hazmat. Just regular shipping. I shoot ROAs, 58 Rem and 51 Navies with Treso nipples.

Smokin_Gun
June 1, 2006, 11:23 PM
There's the Key, Treso Nipples...
But $120 worth of cone set ain't in my sites to use Rem Caps which I can't get locally anyway. Then I'd have to buy a set amount from Dixie...Add all that up with 26 years of reliable use of CCI#11 caps and I just can't see my self usin Remington caps I love the Remington 1858 but I think that as far as I go...LoL!
I see your point using treso cones, but they do not work welll on everything...CCI caps have for me. I am glad you posted that, very good info.

Tyril
June 1, 2006, 11:28 PM
I use CCI #11 magnum caps on my Pietta 1858.

They ALWAYS set off the powder charge... BUT tend to explode violently in all directions. I very often get hit with flying cap-parts, and the revolver seems to occationally jam from dislocated pieces falling in the work.

These problems all exist using normal caps, but the magnums seem to increase the frequency. However, around here I can only get the magnums. No one seems to stock the regulars.

I have never had a hang fire or failure when using them, even with BP paper carts.


-mike

gmatov
June 2, 2006, 01:51 AM
Doesn't ANYBODY have a Gander Mountain, or a Cabela's near them?

The first caps I bought at GM were all Rem 11's, I wanted 10's, next time I went, all 10's, bought a bunch.

Cabela's has them, too, 60 miles to mine, but I can get what I want, way cheaper than I can get them sent with an online order. I think they are 3.29 at the store, the website sells them for 39.99 per thou. So, 7 bucks more, plus shipping.

Cheers,

George

Yankee John
June 2, 2006, 02:52 AM
My ASM Walker takes the CCI #11 nicely, but all of my other revolvers work best with Remington #10 magnums. Except for a set of stainless DGW nipples on one of my Remington NMA's, all my pistols have factory nipples.

A few weeks ago, I did have some slow-fires/mis-fires with my Remington Revolving Carbine; I ran out of Remington #10 magnums and had to use my CCI #11's (after I pinched them). It works flawlessly with the Remington #10's otherwise.

dwave
June 2, 2006, 09:24 AM
Hey George, closest Cabelas to me is 3 1/2 hours away and I don't think I am going to drive that far to get caps! :D I would go there to load up on all kinds of stuff, but I don't have a job at the moment other than odd jobs, so it is hard to really buy anything at the moment. For now when I will stick with the CCI's until I can make a trip to Cabelas.

edggy
June 2, 2006, 07:25 PM
I don't know whether or not this will help anyone. But the owner of a local
gunshop told me when you buy a import to take the original nipples out and
and replace them with Ampco's or Trm's and that would eliminate the cap
problem. He also told me if you have to pinch the caps you are using the wrong nipples.And misfires would be related to the revolver and not the cap (hammer to
cap or cylinder not machine true to the hammer).He emphasize caps are primers how many misfires do you have in your deer rifle. oh well thats his opinion.

pohill
June 2, 2006, 09:38 PM
For what it's worth, instructions from an old Colt pamphlet on loading:
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the large sizes..."
Then, "It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."

Smokin_Gun
June 2, 2006, 10:18 PM
Amen to that Pohill! I have been sayin' that in many forums since I joined them. I hope that the people that disbelieved me read this. Maybe Colt is a bit more credible than I am ...LoL!

dwave
June 2, 2006, 11:37 PM
Getting them too big is better than too small. I ran into the problem that #11's was way too big, but #10's was too small. I used #11 CCI mags for a while, but I got tired of pinching them, but didn't have the money to buy another set of nipples so I resized them instead. I took my drimmel and took off a little bit of metal off each one, and now I use #10's with no problems.

I know that they make 10.75's, and they fit alright, but I ran into the problem that the backs kept blowing out, but the sides stayed tight on the nipple.

edggy
June 3, 2006, 12:22 AM
pohill Iam a little confuse. So there's really no specific nipple (Ampco) for any one size of cap. its more like a try and error. The one that fits the best gets it (#10 or 11 for revolvers). I do understand about the misfires thats why Ampco was recommended. Thank You (Iam still learning

pohill
June 3, 2006, 01:12 AM
From what I've learned, and heard, there's not much rhyme or reason to caps.
A cap that fits when you start shooting won't fit when the nipple gets fouled. I use #10 on a Walker but they won't fit on an 1851 .36. Some say that pinching caps is bad because it opens up a path for a spark from other cylinders, which might cause a chainfire. But you read the section from the Colt pamphlet that I posted above about small caps not fitting...
I like Remington caps (Walmart in Fall) because they're thinner and actually split slightly when I push them on (which also could open up a spark path).
Some shooters seat the cap with the hammer - I push caps on with my thumb, then use the screwdriver end of a Walker nipple wrench to pry them a little further onto the nipple. Makes me a little nervous sometimes but so far, so good.
Some shooters work the nipple with a Dremmel for a better cap fit. Like you said - trial and error.
I recently bought a device called Tap O Cap ($20.00) that lets you make your own caps. You cut strips from empty beer/soda cans, feed them into a punch, whack the top and it pops out caps. You then take a roll of paper caps (remember cap gun caps?) and punch out the centers with a paper punch they supply and put 3 of the centers in the punched out caps. Time consuming but kinda fun (like moulding your own roundballs). The Tap O Caps work in my 1860 .44 Army (Pietta) but not in any other gun I've tried.

edggy
June 3, 2006, 01:24 AM
Thank You very much) pohill, I love this forum I really have learn alot. The reason
I keep harping on Ampco is because I just bought a set (Expensive) for my new
revolver. Haven't had a chance to shoot it (four days of rain maybe more)

pohill
June 3, 2006, 01:47 AM
You have the Walker, right? Great gun. One time I was shooting mine and a trap shooter walked over and said, "Just wanted to see what was making all the noise." And that was with 45 grs of BP. Just remember that mainspring when you take it down - it can be tricky and it has some stored energy when it pops.

gmatov
June 3, 2006, 02:44 AM
Dwave,

Sorry to hear that you are out of work, at the moment.

Cabela's and GM seem to be popping up all over the place, well, GM is 10 miles away, Cabela's is 60 or so.

Them who are buying replacement nipples should go to Thunder Ridge, if for no other reason that they will ask you to send a nipple if you are unsure just what you have. Many, if not most, are metric. I think they say their TRMs take a #10 cap, Ampco takes #11, or vice versa. Or Treso, whatever.

Regardless, if the cap does not fit, you should either get nipples that your choice of caps fit, or change to a cap that fits all your revolvers, which might be a laugh. We're learning, here, that even 2 models from the same maker are different in nipple size.

Caps that split when you seat them are a no-no, also. They are holding on only at the very end of the nipples. Easy to fall off. I don't know why it SEEMS that all of mine flare out into a short armed cross, with or without powder. Snap a cylinder full with no powder and ball, and a Maltese Cross. Falls off the hammer face, right out of the frame. Have only had a few that actually did stick to my hammer face, that was with the Rems, why, I don't know, they have a narrower opening in the frame, and a skinnier hammer. Go figure. Never have it with the Colts. Fatter hammer and hammer window, mebbe.

Caps that the back end blow out, and, did you say, leave a corrugated ring still on the nipples?. Not an ideal cap. What them are I would like to know so as not to buy them. Never had THAT happen..

The corrugated cap is designed to accomodate a SLIGHT variation in nipple size. If you think about it, they make damned deep and thin 16 ounce beer cans without corrugations, they could make caps with no corrugations, BUT, they would fit only a precice sized nipple.

Ah, well, use what you can get, iif you CAN use them.

Cheers,

George

dwave
June 3, 2006, 09:34 AM
Hey George, the caps I had problems with was #10.75 RWS German caps. Might work fine on other guns, but on my 51 it kept blowing the backs out and leaving the sides on the nipple. They wouldn't go on tight or anything like that so I know that wasn't the problem.

pohill
June 3, 2006, 10:32 AM
When I said the Rem caps split I didn't mean like a gutted fish. Just little tiny seam splits that do not affect their ability to stay on the nipples. The don't fall off. They seem to be made of a thinner metal than CCI. Anyone else notice this?

dwave
June 3, 2006, 04:14 PM
Got to try out some Remington #10's today. Wouldn't you know it, I was just saying that my local gun shop didn't carry Remington caps and I went down to get some caps to shoot today and they had two tins in stock. I bought one tin and I must say that they are the best caps that I have tried so far. They have good ignition and they are easy to pinch too, much easier than the CCIs.

George, forgot to say, no worries on the job. I got my CDL's the other day, so I should have no problems getting a job now.

Smokin_Gun
June 3, 2006, 06:03 PM
The Rems are thinner material and shorter than CCI caps. As far as stayin on more...well, no...they jammed up my 1851 Navy uberti more than the CCI#11's. But I think it all has to do with how they fit the cones. That I believe is where all of our differances come from...Ya Know?

dwave
June 3, 2006, 08:09 PM
Could be because I modified my nipples on my 1851 Navy and they worked perfect on my gun. I would have to say that they are the best caps that I have tried yet. I have ran 30 rounds through today and not a single one misfired or fell into the action. They didn't really blow apart completely, just enough they would come off when you pulled them off.

gmatov
June 4, 2006, 12:35 AM
Dwave,

Good on the CDL. Hope a job clicks soon.

Wal Mart and BP caps, is a funny thing. For one, they only seem to stock ANY BP stuff near the hunting season, reduce prices and clear after the season, have bought a few on clearance, not caps, but other stuff. When they DO carry them, they are higher priced than any but some mom'n pop store.

Next, for some reason, Wal Marts don't all carry BP stuff. One, 15 miles south of me carried lots of BP stuff, 10 miles east, not very much, 10 miles west none, nada, zilch (We never carry BP stuff.) Another like 15 miles SW, some, but not enough.

Same with sub powders. Way higher than Gander Mountain.

Why the back would blow out and not split the corrugated sides, I dunno. All mine flatten them into a cross shape, near perfectly flat, re-cock the hammer and it falls off nicely, and almost always completely out of the frame, with or without powder and ball. They are damned powerful little bastards, helluva a crack when you snap 'em off, near 22 sound, 'specially indoors.

Gotta mike my best nipples, see what they should all be turned to to make 'em fit one or the other size. I'd like to use just 1 size, say Rem 10's, be easier than buying a couple hundred this, couple hundred that. I don't shoot 2 or 3 of the 10's fit best guns, so sometimes wind up with 2 tins of caps on the bench at the same time, which one fits this kinda day.

Gotta turn that mandrel one a these days, dress 'em all down to Rem 10's.

I'll get to that one of these days. My kid's place is near done, should have more time for me. Unless the 2 others need me.

Cheers,

George

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