[Phantom Warrior]

Today, April 28th, the Minneapolis Senate voted 36-31 (37-30 on the final vote) to concur with the House version of S.F. 842.

For those of you who aren't Minnesotans, shall-issue passed the House but was stuck in committee (courtesy of the DFL) in the Senate. The House attached the shall-issue bill to S.F. 842 (a minor bill relating to the Department of Natural Resources already passed by the Senate) forcing the bill to be brought to a vote on the Senate floor. As stated above the full Senate voted to concur with the House's version, in effect passing shall-issue through the Senate. A vote to reconsider failed 28-39.

Now the bill goes to Governor Pawlenty's desk. He was one of the leaders in getting shall-issue passed through the House last year when he was still Rep. Pawlenty and has stated repeatedly that he will sign the bill.

All I have to say is about time and WHOO WHOO!!

[Oleg Volk]

Will TN or FL permits be recognized? When will this take effect?

[Phantom Warrior]

Subd. 16. [RECOGNITION OF PERMITS FROM OTHER STATES.] The commissioner of public safety must annually establish and publish a list of other states that have laws governing the issuance of permits to carry weapons that are not substantially similar to this section. The list must be available on the Internet. A person holding a carry permit from a state not on the list may use the license or permit in this state subject to the rights, privileges, and requirements of this section.

This is an excerpt from the bill regarding your first question. Essentially, if you aren't on the no reciprocity list you can carry in Minnesota with the permit from your home state. Someone pointed out that this effectively puts the "burden of proof" on Minnesota's part (permits are assumed recognized until the state finds reason to decide otherwise, instead of vice-versa) and avoids the need to negotiate seperate reciprocity agreements with every state. Since the bill has not been signed yet the Commissioner of Public Safety has not established that list.

Which brings me to the second question. The bill goes into effect 30 days after it is signed by Gov. Pawlenty. This will most likely be tomorrow or sometime later this week. Figure the end of May. Sometime after that the no reciprocity list should be available.

For any further obvious questions I have overlooked you can got to the full bill text
here (http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/cgi-bin/getbill.pl?number=HF0261&session=ls83&version=latest&session_number=0&session_year=2003) .

[Diesle]

Expect to see the Gov. sign this within 2 weeks. Then, law enforcement has 30 days to go live with this. There will be up to a 30 day wait till you receive the permit after having applied for it.

Im not sure yet on the reciprocity question. Though I know there is some provision for it in the language.

Its a really great day in Minnesota!

Diesle

[Standing Wolf]

Well done, Minnesota!

Minnesota sure has come a long way since I lived there! It's a beautiful state with great people and some of the worst weather imaginable. I'm glad to see it's joined the ranks of states that take the Second Amendment seriously.

[cobb]

I watch the debate on the Senate floor, and I would say it officially passed at 18:30.

Now I've got to get rolling on some classes, not to take, but to give. I am a certified NRA instructor and the way the bill reads, there is no classes offered with in 80 miles of me that would qualify under this bill.

:D

[HankB]

Well, well, well, the People's Republic of Minnesota has joined civilized society and their "Helpless Victim" policies will be ending...DESPITE the efforts of the Deviate, Flake, and Leftist party HQ'd in Minneapolis. A fine day for you folks in the Land of 10,000 lakes, and a far cry from when I lived there.

I won't feel so sorry for you folks once I visit from Texas . . . as long as you recognize MY CHL! :cool:

[AR-10]

Good for you cobb, and congratulations to all gun owning Minnesotans!

Sure hope they will recognize my CCW.

[powerstrk]

:) :) :) :) Nuff said
:D

[nondescript]

I suddenly feel the need to look into compact pistols, and to save money for some quality leather products. BDA's, J-frames, Kahrs, and baby Glocks are starting to look a lot more useful all of a sudden. :)

[falconer]

Now if Ohio would just follow suit...

[AQUAJOE]

Wee Hoo for us.

[Diesle]

"I suddenly feel the need to look into compact pistols..."

Ya, no kidding. Im hearing p-3AT.....p-3AT......p-3AT...... in my ears over and over again....


Diesle

[Frohickey]

May Issue:
1. Kalifornia
2. Hawaii
3. Colorado
4. Minnesota (shall issue as soon as the bill is signed)
5. Iowa
6. New Yawk
7. Taxachusettes
8. Maryland
9. Rhode Island
10. New Joisey
11. Delaware

No Issue:
12. Nebraska
13. Kansas
14. Missouri
15. Wisconsin
16. Illinois
17. Ohio (bill pending, help out at www.ohioccw.org (http://www.ohioccw.org)
17 1/2. Washington DC

[CleverNickname]

Frohickey, CO just passed a shall-issue bill not too long ago, too. Takes effect sometime this summer, IIRC.

[AQUAJOE]

Governor Pawlenty signed the bill this evening. It is done.

[Diesle]

Do you have a web link that talks about the Gov. signing it already....?


Diesle

[AQUAJOE]

They just announced it on the news.

[Monkeyleg]

Congratulations to the good folks from CCRN!

And please, please let your efforts spill over into Wisconsin!

The 34th shall-issue state!

Yeeeeeeehaaawwww!

[Phantom Warrior]

This link is to an article in the Star Tribune regarding the signing:
Star Tribune article (http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/3852503.html)

Go Minnesota!

Are we number 36? That would be fun. Thirty-six is a perfect square. Whoo whoo. *sigh* Yes. I am a math major (and computer science). It's true. But it's a cool number, you have to admit that.

[SteelyDan]

Well knock me over with a feather...

This state is almost as liberal as it gets, so if this can be accomplished here it definitely bodes well for other venues.

So, Cobb, when are you starting up those classes?

[Diesle]

I answered my own question....

Isnt our Gov. just a speedy f%#$^%ing Gonzales...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/3852503.html

Diesle

Edit: Whoopsy, I posted at the same time...

[ahadams]

HOORAAH! go Minnesota!:D :D :D

[Diesle]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/3852649.html


Diesle

[dd-b]

Oh, man am I excited. Been hoping for this for some time.

Cobb, you should look into the course materials soon to be available from AACFI for Minnesota -- I've been through the beta-test training course, have been reviewing the Everything you need to know to (Legally) Carry a Handgun in Minnesota book, and am working on their web site. Hope to be able to post the URL very shortly, when it's ready for public consumption.

I certainly think that there's going to be a lot of money made in training in the next year or so. The state estimates 90,000 permits within 3 years. *I* estimate rather more, based on the numbers in other states.
I do hope to catch a bit of that money myself.

[mpthole]

AWESOME!!!! I'm so excited and happy and relieved that it finally passed and signed into law! :D Guess I'll have to move back across the river. ;)

I know this won't burst anyone's bubble, but just to be reminded of some of the idiocy MN'ans are dealing with in the local paper:
Just who supports this gun craziness (http://www.startribune.com/stories/465/3852748.html)
Of course I almost went :barf: when I read this "It's so hard for a group of volunteers to keep coming back year after year against a powerful special-interest group with paid staff," said Becky Wardell-Gaertner, who was among those cheering for senators to keep fighting conceal-and-carry. Hmmm... I didn't know CCRN had a paid staff... I'll bet CCRN themselves didn't know that either. Sure the NRA "supported" this bill, but as far as supporting it financially, I think their contributions were nil compared to CCRN fundraising and gun-show donations.

Can't wait to learn all the details. I really hope this is a decent shall-issue system that I could live with/settle for.

A B I G THANK YOU goes out to all of the CCRN members and espcially the CCRN leadership for all of their hard work in making this happen.

[PATH]

I love stories with a happy ending. 34 Shall Issue. 16 more to go!

[Nightfall]

Not to put a negative spin on this, but congrats on being allowed to defend yourself! :D Seriously, cudos to all those shooters in MN that got off their butts and made this happen, hopefully you will inspire even more to take action.

[F4GIB]

Here is the bill.
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/unoff/house/ue/ues0842.2.html

[MrKandiyohi]

I was pleasantly surprised when the bill was actually passed in the Senate. I was almost certain that it would be defeated again.

I gave money to CCRN and I wrote representatives and senators in my area. I was still astonished. Wow, it can happen in Minnesota.

I guess May 28 is the day of liberation in MN. I'll have my photo, application, proof of training and money at the sheriff's office that morning.

[Tamara]

While I'm happy for the good citizens of Minnesota, I can't help but wonder: Would we get this excited about a state grudgingly getting around to issuing permits for "Reading in public" or "Praying in public"? Why do we act grateful that our masters agree to infringe our natural, moral and civil rights a little less?

[enfield]

Congratulations, Minnesota!! :D

[Oleg Volk]

Tam,

We are happy because we don't want to go to war against the evil people. I am still of opinion that anti police chiefs and politicians of Minnesota (and other states) should all get cancer or something equally unpleasant as retribution for their evil ways. That we are too law-abiding to hunt them for pelts doesn't mean that some of us wouldn't welcome a little divine intervention. That said, making them a little less able to do further harm is a good start and more practical.

[mpthole]

Oleg: ditto. Very well said.

We lost our rights gradually and we'll have to get them back one step at a time. Like Claire Wolf says... "Don't Shoot the Bastards... Yet" As long as we can make progress through our established systems, maybe there is still some hope.

[FJC]

Fantastic news! Congrats!

[MJRW]

Congratulations, Minnesota.

[Big_R]

Wooooohoooooo!

As I have said before, it was a pleasure to watch the Senate debate, and be reminded of how much pleasure I get from watching unhappy liberals become unhappier (is that a word)? Now, to shop for a CCW.

Ryan

[F4GIB]

CCRN was started by one person passing out zeroxed flyers at a gun show. It has no paid staff. There are less than 10 people in the leadership group all of whom have put in hundreds of hours of unpaid volunteer time during the past 7 years. Democracy, fueled by the cheap communications marvels of the internet, does work.

[Glamdring]

At last. :D

I am going to make a list of instructors for friends here in MN that will be getting CCW permit but don't spend every day on the net.

I would appreciate any instructors emailing me and/or posting here if that doesn't violate board etiquette.

Now I am going out to the range to celebrate.

[Frohickey]

May Issue:
1. Kalifornia
2. Hawaii
. Colorado (shall issue as soon as the law takes effect)
. Minnesota (shall issue as soon as the bill is signed)
3. Iowa
4. New Yawk
5. Taxachusettes
6. Maryland
7. Rhode Island
8. New Joisey
9. Delaware

No Issue:
10. Nebraska
11. Kansas
12. Missouri
13. Wisconsin
14. Illinois
15. Ohio (bill pending, help out at www.ohioccw.org (http://www.ohioccw.org)
15 1/2. Washington DC

Thats still 15 states and a district that does not allow people to protect themselves.

As for asking for divine intervention to make the anti-gunners lives' more difficult... I pray that they develop an organ in their rectal area that secretes cyano-acrylate. :evil:

[Silver Bullet]

To my way of thinking, may-issue is worse than no-issue, because it establishes a caste system where only the friends of the people in power get CCW. Politicians who want to carry aren't as motivated to go shall-issue as long as they've got theirs.

And, as I look at your may-issue and no-issue list, the states I regard as having the worst gun laws are all in the may-issue list: NJ, MD, MA, NY, RI, HI, and CA, in about that order.

[ReadyontheRight]

My Senator:

"Thank you very much for getting in touch to voice your support for the effort that would remove local law enforcement's authority and discretion over issuing permits for carrying concealed handguns in public.:uhoh:

Unfortunately, we disagree. Communities are not made safer by the presence of even more guns. Overturning local law enforcement's professional judgment is very unwise. We have a law that works fine. Under our current statutes, absolutely no
one's Constitutional rights are undermined.:scrutiny:

Furthermore, NRA adherents in the legislature have totally contravened our legislative process to avoid a full airing and meaningful debate on this bill. That is wrong.:rolleyes:

Please continue to call and write with your views.

Very truly yours,
Scott Dibble"

I guess Democrats keeping it in committee for 7 years was OK, but getting it out for a vote where everyone knew what they were voting on was wrong

Another Senator among many I contacted who was listed as "on the fence" by CCRN (and also by the lefty Star Tribune):

"Thank you for your note. I will be supporting the Minnesota Personal Protection Act. It is time that we bring uniformity to the Conceal and Carry laws in our state. We need to give our citizens a way to defend themselves against perpetrators.

History also clearly shows that those that choose to carry recognize the responsibility that goes along with carrying a firearm. It is time we pass this act. I appreciate your
support.

Paul Koering
State Senator"

:)

Thanks for all your hard work and support THR members. It's sad that we need to celebrate registering with the State to excercise a basic right, but it's better than continuing down the slippery slope. God Bless America.

[Idaho]

*clap*clap*clap*clap*

As a former Minnesotan, it makes me mighty glad to see this. I hope they have reciprocity for Washington....

[F4GIB]

One of the agencies whose certifications are recognized per the new statute is the American Association of Certified Firearms Instructors.

www.firearmsinstructors.biz or 612-730-9895

Their instructors will be holding classes all around the state.


The site will be up later tonight.

[F4GIB]

Here is the new law.
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/cgi-bin/getbill.pl?session=ls83&version=latest&session_number=0&session_year=2003&number=sf842

[dustind]

From packing.org

1. The new law is (as the old one was) a carry law. There is no requirement to be concealed.
2. Residents must apply to their sheriff. Non-residents may apply to any sheriff.
3. Application must be made in person.
4. Training must be within one year of original or renewal application.
5. Applicant must be 21 (was 18).
6. Maximum fee is the lesser of actual processing costs or $100.
7. Commissioner of Public Safety must establish list of states which have permit laws that are NOT substantially similar to Minnesota's. The license of any state NOT on the list will be recognized by Minnesota. **very cool**
8. Commissioner of Public Safety must, when necessary, establish reciprocity agreements.
9. Commissioner of Public Safety must establish electronic database of permit holders, which must be available 24x7 to law enforcement agencies. This is necessary for states like Virginia.
10. Permit is valid for five years.
11. Sheriff must do background check on permittees annually and may do additional checks at any time.
12. MN governor is P-a-w-l-e-n-t-y.

Tamara, i agree, but regaining some rights is still something to be celebrated. We should never be content with what we have, just because it is more than we had before.
I wil keep fighting for better guns laws in Minnesota until; I die, Move out of state, or Minnesota's gun laws are perfect in every way.

[dd-b]

F4GIB, I see you beat me to it. But for anybody who went to the URL and found it still password-protected, good news: I've just opened it.

This is probably the smallest paying client I've ever done web work for -- and I suspect this web site will have the biggest traffic on launch day of any of the ones I've done. Be nice, guys!

That url again is http://firearmsinstructors.biz

[SteelyDan]

Three particularly surprising things jumped out at me from reading the bill. First, the liberal reciprocity procedure, though that may wax-and-wane a bit depending on whose appointee is in office. Second, it's not a crime to carry even in a place that's posted "no carry" unless you're personally asked to leave and you refuse to do so. Third, you can carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages, and it's not a crime to have one or two drinks while there, unless your blood alcohol level goes over 0.04 percent, which, depending on a whole bunch of factors, probably averages out to about two drinks.

The whole tenor of the bill is strongly supportive of the right to carry. Most bills tend to be pretty neutral, but this one leaves no doubt about which side it favors. Amazing...

[SteelyDan]

Okay, new question. I've been taking a very quick and unreliable look at the Minnesota statutes, and my first impression is that persons who possess a handgun permit under Minn. Stat. 624.714 may be exempted from the prohibitions against public carry of rifles and shotguns under Minn. Stat. 624.7181. So does this mean that permit holders under the revised 624.714 will now be able to bring their ARs or AKs into their neighborhood McDonalds??

The question sounds facietious [sp?], but it's not. I mean, this isn't the kind of thing anyone would actually do, but I'm curious about the implications of the new law. And I'm pretty sure there are folks out there who are much better versed on these laws than I am.

[sully]

Our staff has been overwhelmed with the flood of inquiries about courses. We have added some extra dates to our calendar to help meet everyone's needs. See our posting in the strategies and tactics section.

Stay Safe,
Sully
Chief Instructor
www.defensive-edge.ent

[Gray Peterson]

Delete this post, double post.

[Gray Peterson]

The question sounds facietious [sp?], but it's not. I mean, this isn't the kind of thing anyone would actually do, but I'm curious about the implications of the new law. And I'm pretty sure there are folks out there who are much better versed on these laws than I am.

It sounds a lot like Oregon's law. Here's how Oregon law is: There is a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun in public. The exemption to this is having a CHL.

Another statute allows the cities and counties of Oregon to restrict the public carrying of a loaded firearm (not just handgun, firearm). Apparently this was to stave off an attempt at carrying around a loaded rifle down the street.

The exception being is that if you have a CHL, by state law, this does not effect you. Though primarily directed at carrying a handgun openly, such laws also prohibit you from carrying a loaded firearm in general. Again, with a CHL this does not apply.

See what I mean?

[Oleg Volk]

A lot of my photos will appear in the book which dd-b mentioned. Look to seeing some familiar faces and guns.

[dd-b]

I think Joel has chosen the pictures well, too. Now, if the printer doesn't muck them up too bad, they'll add a lot.

Picture quality has been noted as a major concern for reviewing the proofs from the printer. Maybe they'll all look perfect!