[beerslurpy]

My plans for a suppressor for the AK fell through due to technical problems (it wouldnt actually be quiet due to gas system) and I decided to make a dedicated subsonic suppressed rifle instead. The goal is minimum sound but good power in a subsonic round.

The choices below are what I came up with at work while daydreaming during compiles. Please share more ideas if you come across any. Also, if anyone has a lead on a rhineland arms 45 kit or a camp carbine, I would jump at a chance to buy it off you.

Caliber choices are:
45 ACP: cheap, subsonic, heavy, tons of mags available for it
45 Long Colt: same as 45 ACP, but rimmed
458 SOCOM: like 45 ACP but 3x the bullet mass and 3x the price per round.

I am torn between doing a semiauto carbine and doing a bolt action carbine. Choices are:
-camp carbine semiauto in 45 ACP with integral can.
-enfield with 45 ACP + 1911 mag conversion and integral can.
-Mech Tech 1911 carbine conversion with integral can.
-AR15 upper in 45 ACP with integral can
-AR15 upper in 458 SOCOM with integral can
-custom bolt gun in 458 socom with integral can

The AR upper options and the custom bolt gun options would be pricey. The enfield plus conversion would be under 300. Camp carbines used to be under 200 now they are like 600 on gunbroker (****ty). Integral suppressor for any of these barrels would be just under 700. I'm aiming for 110-120 decibels.

[grimjaw]

beerslurpy, might not interest you, but I saw a Ruger 77 bolt chambered for .44 Magnum that somebody had worked up a suppressor for. .44 Special out of that ought to be interesting. The rifles might be hard to come by, though. Just a thought.

jmm

[beerslurpy]

Yeah I had thought of that, but 44 mag has to be handloaded or you put in 44 specials and take a hit in accuracy because the bullet doesnt seat against the rifling (it headspaces on the rim and is much shorter than the 44mag the rifle is chambered for).

And more importantly, it is hard to get those rifles due to being out of production.

[Minator]

the only guns that dont make a gunshot sound when they have a can installed are AR types and 95% of 22lr calibers other then that no others would fit in your category and I have never seen a 45acp rifle other than conversions that operate very pourly.

[Gordon]

Did you see my "finally got my Destroyer" post 3 days ago? I paid $375 for a like new one, I plan on shooting handloads with 173grain Keith lead bullets sized to +.001 over bore diameter using just enough Unique to keep things sub sonic.

But iffn you HAVE to have a .45 bore , La Bounty would rebore for $119(and thread the end cheap no doubt) and 1911 mags could be modified along with trigger guard housing hole size and modify the bolt face and extractor. You could have a nifty .45 repeater this way for $600.

[Telperion]

If you are willing to handload, have you looked at 300 Whisper? If commercially loaded ammo is a requirement, I think your choices will be more limited. Do a search or go to http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/index.html

[444]

I recently spent a four hour car ride discussing this same issue.
I own a half dozen suppressors but after hearing my buddies DeLislie, I decided I had to have a dedicated suppressed rifle.
I would like to have one that is practical as a rifle. If I wanted to use it for hunting or personal defense or even (Heaven forbid) offense I wanted it to have some real power.
This means big bullets. If you decide to shoot subsonic loads, why not throw a HUGE chunk of lead out there at subsonic velocity ? You can throw a 77 grain .223 out there at 1050 fps or a 500 grain bullet at the same speed. If the speed is fixed, why not go big with weight ?
One of the things that I gave some serious consideration to was the .45/70 cartridge out of a lever action. You can shoot some REAL big bullets out of that.
Then I moved on to the .300 Whisper. Obviously this cartridge was designed to be shot suppressed. I believe there is also a .338 Whisper and a 500 Whisper ???

A lot of these cartridges shoot bullets between 200 and 300 grains. .45 ACP, .44 Special/Mag. 300 Whisper........................................ If you are loading them to subsonic velocities, then the whole pictures kind of blurs: same weight bullet/same velocity bullet.


I owned a .458 SOCOM and it was OK. But, there was nothing about it that thrilled me. I was never really comfortable with the idea that the rifle was not designed for the cartridge and was thus modified. For me and me only, I am probably going to go with a bolt gun, but like I said, I considered a lever.

[geekWithA.45]

What about a Camp9?

They're cheaper, higher capacity, easier to come by, and I recall subsonic 9mm loads being commercially available....

[444]

FWIW, I have the LRM M169 integrally suppressed 9mm AR15 upper. This is a very simple, turn key operation.
However, it has it's drawbacks:
It isn't all that quiet if you ask me.
The one I have bleeds off gas which slows down the bullet. This is so you can shoot cheap WalMart supersonic ammo and the supperssor slows it down to subsonic. I would prefer making the ammo subsonic through handloading. Most of the time, I don't care if the round is supersonic but with this upper I don't have that choice.
If you are going to carry around something this big, why not have something in a serious caliber ?

[beerslurpy]

Not going with 9mm because subsonic 45 hits harder and is easier to find on shelves. If I could get this in full auto, I might consider going down to 380, but with bolt action I want each shot to count.

[444]

Ok, so what about the other stuff: .300 Whisper, .45/70, etc. Why screw around with pistol cartridges ? Go big or stay home.
Give me some dialog. :D

[beerslurpy]

300 whisper is silly. It is a lot of effort for something that hits way less hard than 45. If I am going to go for 30 caliber, I would just have Mark make me a rem 700 with an integral. Those are fairly quiet and hit super hard (as supersonic 308 should). I would rather download 308 with heavy bullets than be stuck with the whisper.

45/70 is neat except you have to handload because every commercial 45/70 load I have heard of is way supersonic. For a handloader, this has just as much potential as 458 socom, with the benefit of cheaper brass. But I am not a handloader yet. I just cant justify that kind of intellectual effort for a one time deal.

My ideal subsonic round would be a 1oz 12 ga shotgun slug. I would be getting a can for a remington bolt action slug gun except for the little problem of shotguns having wads to strike the baffles. Pistol rounds are the medicine when you want subsonic. Big and slow is the name of the game for quiet.

[444]

Well, I personally don't think the .300 Whisper is silly. And I don't think it hits way less hard than a .45. In fact, the bulllet is much more aerodynamic. As I said, if you are shooting subsonic, the parent case doesn't matter. A 240 grain Sierra Match King fired subonic out of the .300 Whisper is the same as it would be if the same bullet was fired subsonic out of a .308. And according to that link provided earlier, you can get the .300 Whisper up over 2000 fps with a 150 grain bullet if you want to go supersonic. I agree that it is a far cry from a full bore .308, but it ain't shabby. It is certainly a heavier bullet moving a lot faster than a .45 Auto.
If you start handloading the bigger cases like .308 you run into an issue with a very small powder charge in that big case. This causes problems. You don't have these problems with the .300 Whisper. Of course these issues don't prevent you from loading larger cases, subsonic. But for a dedicated suppressed rifle, it makes life a little easier for you.
Something else you might want to consider. Savage rifles have been touted over the last few years as being the most accurate out of the box rifles on the market. Another aspect of Savage rifles is that it is VERY easy to change barrels on them. This is something you can do at home with a few simple tools. So, you could have a .300 Whisper barrel as well as a .308 barrel (or whatever).
I would personally go for the .45/70 long before I went for the .458 Socom. The .458 Socom is to the .45/70, what the .300 Whisper is to the .308 IMO. Same bullet, much smaller volume case. Of course, who makes a bolt gun in .45/70 ? I suppose if you really wanted a .45 caliber bolt action rifle to suppress you could go straight to the .458 Win Mag. Shoot subsonics out of it, then unscrew the can and shoot the full blown big boys.


In the end, I probably will go with the .308 just because it is totally mainstream. There are readily available production suppressors designed around that cartridge. As you say, it is more verstitile than the .300 Whisper and FWIW I already own several .308 rifles and handload for them all the time.
But..............that .300 Whisper still is attractive to me.

I hope we get some good dialog going on this subject. It is a lot more interesting to me than discussing what our favorite 9mm handguns are. :scrutiny:

[beerslurpy]

My main gripe with this new interest of mine is that there are so few choices on the marketplace. The restrictiveness of the FFL/SOT system really chokes off manufacturers to the point that there are a few dozen reputable suppressor manufacturers that I can think of, at most.

And if none of them think your project is worthwhile, you get no help.

[444]

I have never had a suppressor custom made, but it can be done. There are a lot of people manufacturing suppressors that arn't widely knows as suppressor manufacturers. In other words, they mainly do other things but will make a suppressor if they need one.
I bet SSK Industries would make you a suppressor for a .458 Socom or a .300 Whisper. JD Jones (SSK Ind.) invented the .300 Whisper.
http://www.sskindustries.com/

Eye Candy: http://www.sskindustries.com/tactical.htm

"This is SSK's new suppressed .510 Whisper® built on the SAKO TRG-S action.
The 750 grain Hornady AMAC bullet is capable of 1 MOA accuracy at 600 yards."

[Matt-man]

Well, I personally don't think the .300 Whisper is silly. And I don't think it hits way less hard than a .45. In fact, the bulllet is much more aerodynamic.

This can be significant. Just about any rifle bullet is going to have a much better ballistic coefficient than a stubby pistol bullet. The higher the BC, the better the bullet is at retaining its velocity (and thus energy) as it goes downrange.

As an example I ran the numbers for a .429" 240gr Speer JHP meant for .44 Magnum (BC = .165) and the .308" 240gr Matchking (BC = .685). With both starting at 1000fps, the .44 is down to 829fps at 200 yards. The Matchking is only down to 950. This also means less drop. With a 100-yard zero, the .44 drops about 41" at 200, and the Matchking drops about 34".

Another thing to consider with .300 Whisper vs. .308: The Whisper can be chambered in an AR-15, if you are into that type of thing.

[beerslurpy]

Aerodynamics doesnt matter below the speed of sound. There are papers on this. First off, it is harder to stabilize match style bullets. Secondly, even ignoring stability, the enormous amount of decelerative energy created by leaving a mach cone is absent in a subsonic round.

The basic idea is that below the speed of sound, bullets bleed off energy very slowly regardless of shape. Unfortunately they are also moving very slowly so they fall very fast. However, you can compensate for this out to 200 yards without extraordinary effort, or so I have read. The 45ACP DeLisle carbine was a 250-300 yard gun during WWII. Pretty scary when you consider how quiet it was.

About stabilization, one point to make regarding wounding. A bullet that is stabilized in the air when subsonic is also stabilized going through flesh or any other medium. The bad of this is that a 45 ACP round will cut a .45 sized hole while a 30 whisper FMJBT will leave a .30 sized hole. The upside is that the 30 whisper will penetrate a lot farther, possibly going through light body armor, while the 45 acp will almost certainly not penetrate.

[444]

I didn't really expand on that point but what I am looking for in buying a new suppressed bolt action rifle is longer/longish range and precision accuracy. That is why I am much more interested in cartridges that fire spitzer bullets through a precision, scoped rifle.
However, I didn't start the thread so my desires might not be important to this thread.

"The 45ACP DeLisle carbine was a 250-300 yard gun during WWII. "
I recently bought a book entitled "Silencer, History and Perfomance Volume II" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581603231/sr=8-2/qid=1149658891/ref=sr_1_2/104-1347011-0378360?%5Fencoding=UTF8
It has a whole chapter on the DeLisle. It exhibited very mediocre accuracy at 50 yards. I seriously doubt that it is capable of regularly hitting a human at even 100 yards.
One of my best friends owns a reproduction that was made from the original drawings. At 50 yards, from a sandbagged benchrest, you would be lucky to keep all your shots in a group the size of a human head. Well, actually it shoots a group of maybe 4" at 50 yards with random fliers that are WAY away from the group. Who knows when one of those is going to occur ? Murphy would say it would be when you were making a critical, all or nothing shot.

[beerslurpy]

I want that as well, but not in this particular rifle. I eventually plan to do a 308 with a giant can, but only for use as a long range rifle.

edit: ok I stand corrected on 45 acp accuracy. But it wont be a big deal to me. If the gun is quiet enough to kill squirrels and (walter mitty time) goblins out to 22 LR ranges, I will be thrilled.

But who knows how his barrel was shortened and crowned or how the bafffles were arranged? Bullets might have been destabliizing on the way out the barrel for all we know.

[444]

With a more modern platform and modern suppressor, I am sure you could make a huge improvement in the accuracy department over the DeLisle. But I have to question whether a modern muzzle can would hold a candle to a DeLisle. That thing is quiet. Really, super, Hollywood quiet.
It ought to be. The suppressor is about 3" in diameter and about two feet or more in length.
My little AAC Evolution 9 is probably 1/8 it's size.

"But who knows how his barrel was shortened and crowned or how the bafffles were arranged? Bullets might have been destabliizing on the way out the barrel for all we know."

Right, it could be his rifle. I don't think he is getting baffle strikes or destabilized bullets because all the holes in the targets are normal looking. But, you never know: who knows what barrel he started with. The original DeLisle used a Thompson barrel. But, be that as it may, this was why I brought up the subject of that book I bought. It goes into great detail about the DeLisle and it's testing by the Brits during the war and they got about the same kind of accuracy he is; although they didn't mention the fliers. After reading that book, I was thinking that you could get just as good of accuracy out of a suppressed handgun and not have to carry around the weight. Although, as I keep saying, that DeLisle is super quiet. It may have been worth carrying anyway.
__________________

[beerslurpy]

The baffles in the DeLisle were horrible. I've seen one cut open and it was just a fancy washer and spacer design, sort of like the primary blast baffle for a MAC can. A modern reflex can with K-baffles should be quieter as well as lighter and smaller. Just consider how enormous an integral is compared to the average (nearly silent) 45 ACP muzzle can.

[Matt-man]

Aerodynamics doesnt matter below the speed of sound. There are papers on this.

Got any pointers to any of those? I'd like to check that out. As a high power shooter we try to keep our bullets supersonic so it's not an area that I've had exposure to.

[444]

With super accurate .22 LR match shooting, you start off with subsonic bullets, don't you ?

[beerslurpy]

Yeah, apparently there is a huge problem when bullets transition from supersonic to subsonic. It destablizes them i beleive. So there is a huge advantage to staying supersonic once you have decided that is where you want to be.

All the 22LR target stuff is subsonic I beleive.

I'm super tired right now. I'll try to find that subsonic reloading and ballistics page tomorrow.

[only1asterisk]

If you aren't going to load your own ammo, you limit your options severely.

Suppressors cost money. You are going to drop at least $500 to get an inexpensive level can. I think you should look at an absolute minimum $1250 plus transfer fees budget for bolt rifle less optics.

The Rhineland Arms/Enfield would be fun and certainly the cheapest. With a muzzle can you could bring it home for less than $1100.

Rounds like the 300 whisper and 338 Spectre offer the very best performance for your money. The 300 Whisper is easiest to setup and about as quiet as you can make a rifle. I’d buy a Savage Model 10FP in .223 and have a spare 300 Whisper barrel made. About $1250.

If you really want a semi auto .45 you could go the AR15 route with a Cavalry Arms lower and Hahn block for grease gun magazines. For $1450+ you will have a 100 yard rifle that weighs as much as an AR10, balances poorly, doesn’t hold the bolt open on the last shot and isn’t as quiet as some of the other options. You could scare up a Marlin camp carbine, pay way too much for it and maybe get out for $1200 or so.

Aerodynamics doesnt matter below the speed of sound.

Of course it does. Ask people that have practical knowledge, like long range black powder competitors.

About stabilization, one point to make regarding wounding. A bullet that is stabilized in the air when subsonic is also stabilized going through flesh or any other medium. The bad of this is that a 45 ACP round will cut a .45 sized hole while a 30 whisper FMJBT will leave a .30 sized hole.

The violent transition between air and flesh is often more than enough to destabilize a modestly stable bullet. I think terminal effects are a bit more complicated than you present.

Good luck with you project,

David

[db_tanker]

There has been several mentions of the Whisper and the 45-70...

You can get both of these no problem in a Thompson Center Contender...yeah they are single-loaders...I don't really look at it as a detraction, though.

Shot a friends 14" 300-221 (300 Whisper) loaded to subsonic velocities and didn't even need earplugs. He had a hard time dealing with the slightly higher cost of the 200 gr VLD bullets so used some 190 gr. hunting bullets and they worked just as good...he kept his starting charge the same he said.

You can also go with an Encore pistol/rifle so that you have access to the heavier rifle calibers, as well.

MTCW
D

[beerslurpy]

only1asterisk, it is possible to select "marginally stable" bullets for subsonic use, but I would rather give up some wounding than risk baffle strikes.

[only1asterisk]

Lots of 300 Whispers out there shooting the heavier match bullets that can only be described as barely stable. If you know that you are going to using this kind of load you can factor it in to the suppressor selection process.

The REALLY long bullets can have a bit of wobble to them even when propelled from a fast twist barrel at rifle velocities. It's something that should be taken into account when the baffles are sized and the suppressor manufacturers can tell you if any of their models might have a problem.


David

[dfaugh]

Well, since I can't legally own one where I live, I'll speak from a couple observations, and some stuff I've read...to be really quiet you want a bolt action...I've shot subsonic Marlin 60 .22 (target and other) loads in my .22s and the noise from the report, is overcome by the noise of the action. Ditto some subsonic 9mm in my Hi-Point carbine, and .45 in my buddies Thompson. I think all are essentially "blowback" designs, and the gas escaping from the action is as loud as the report. In my bolt action .22, the subsonic rounds are much quieter.

As far as the design of the suppressor, there are a variety of designs. As someone mentioned, the early ones (like on the Delisle) worked along the lines of a car muffler, deflecting and slowing the gases. Effective, but big and bulky. Newer ones are much more effective, and use a variety of techniques (wipes, grease, etc.) and are much smaller. I think you could make or have some on make and "old style" suppressor fairly easily, if you didn't mind the size (which mught not be that large for a pistol round like a .45.

Just some rambling thoughts.

[MechAg94]

On aerodynamics, I am no expert, but I remember seeing something on shapes. I think the sharp pointed shape is best for supersonic, but a more blunt nozed shape is most efficient for subsonic. You can look at the differences in subsonic pasenger jets verus supersonic jets like the Concord or fighters. I am not sure about the "aerodynamics don't matter" comment, but it is certainly different.

For myself, I have just thought about a nice suppressed rifle in .22 LR for plinking or playing around. I have seen advertisements in Shotgun News for suppressed 10/22 and pistols. Down the road though.

[mp510]

There is a Mauser option for this project as well.

Back when FAC was in business, they used to sell a kit for conveting the 98 to .45 ACP. It cost $169 and consisted of a .45 ACP barrel, and mag adapter to use 1911 Mags (you ever see the 15 Round single stacks?). The big problem is that you would need to thread the muzzle and get a suppressor of apprpriate diameter.

[Brian Williams]

An old Charles Daly/ new Remington Mini Mauser with a 22-250 bolt would work for a base for a 45 bolt action, get a barrel with an intergral can and have it fitted, what a hooot. You might have to have a block fitted to the magwell and figure some way to shorten the follower plate and spring. Do a search here for Tamara's Turk mausr in 300 whisper. Sweet.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=32322&highlight=turk+300+whisper
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4816&d=1058917880

[ambidextrous1]

The Mech-Tec CCU for the Gov't Model is a reliavle shooter and the untapered short barrel seems to be begging for a suppressor.

Noise from the action of a semi-auto can be eliminated by holding the action closed. The 10-22 can be fired with the third finger while the index finger holds the weapon in battery. If you try this with more powerful ammo, you're on your own; be careful. :uhoh:

[taliv]

here's a picture of one of my suppressor projects. that's me in one of oleg's t-shirts that says "cars have mufflers. so should rifles." holding an HK USC/UMP conversion SBR. .45acp with grease gun mags.




with the eotech style optic, it's not exactly a precision rifle, but it's phenomenally easy to shoot. i take new shooters to the range almost every time i go, and after 2 or 3 shots, people who've never shot a gun before are thwacking coke cans at 50 yards every time. it's almost too easy.


my other project is an AR with a fisher ent M4DC can. with the ceiner 22 conversion, it's pretty sweet.

the HK conversion above is pretty pricy these days, but you can still buy the unconverted ones if you look around. they look like this, and are fantastic guns.
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/050242000/50242426/pix1614003890.jpg

[BrennanKG]

Taliv,

Is the USC to UMP(ish) conversion still being done?

I have a USC but living in CA I've never legally had the option.
Now that I'm moving, I'd LOVE to get my USC worked over.

Any info about avenues for this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
B.

[TC66]

300 Whisper is probably the best option for a suppressed rifle. Do it in an AR body no changes to magizines or bolt. Just a new barrel and forming some .223 brass. Round is subsonic but due to it's weight it still has a bunch of punch left after 200 yards.

[taliv]

brennan, mine was done by hdps.org (homeland defense and police supply) in FL. edwardo is the guy to talk to. i'm extremely pleased with everything about the gun. no complaints whatsoever. and i shoot a lot. no feeding issues, or cycling issues or anything.

when i got mine done, it was like, $1800 and he supplied the USC. (and sent the extra USC parts like the grey stock, etc) now, i think he wants something absurd like $3600

also, according to his website, he's not selling the ones with grease gun conversions anymore. he still has auctions on gunbroker (search "hk usc") but they appear to be using the HK magazines.

[cola8d8]

Here is my Ruger 77/44. I shoot 300 grain bullets at around 1000 FPS, quiet as a pellet gun. It was built by Tom Denall in Bend OR, I think he does a great job.

http://members.cox.net/cola8d8/guns.htm

[gezzer]

Another vote for the Ruger 77/44 intregal! They are sweet!!!!!

[beerslurpy]

Also no longer in production, priced through the roof. For those behind the times, the current weapons are no longer in production:
45 camp carbine
ruger 77/44
ruger 96/44
They now cost several times their original list prices due to lack of supply.

The following weapons are probably available but of dubious suitability:
kel-tec sub2000 (no 45 cal)
mech-tech ccu for 1911 (never seen it tried before, unknown quality of kit)
valkyrie arms delisle carbines (unknown price, unknown availability)
rhineland arms enfield 45 kit (cheap and works but not currently available, backordered several months)
beretta storm (unknown feasibility due to bullpup design, high price)

[Gordon]

I think I see a use for my 788 Remington .44 mag:evil:

[Dionysusigma]

My ideal subsonic round would be a 1oz 12 ga shotgun slug. I would be getting a can for a remington bolt action slug gun except for the little problem of shotguns having wads to strike the baffles. Pistol rounds are the medicine when you want subsonic. Big and slow is the name of the game for quiet.
Are slugs subsonic? :confused:

[beerslurpy]

S&B ones are I beleive.

[Dionysusigma]

So would it even be feasible to have a suppressed shotgun? Wads hitting the baffles, much less the shot itself (if you didn't use slugs)...

I'd hate to think of what a Dragon's Breath would do to a can... :uhoh:

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Brian beat me to it. Tamara's Turk Mauser project was sweet.

An acquaintance of mine who was once a manufacturer built a terrific Marlin Camp Carbine .45 series with a suppressed barrel. The only two sounds you heard were the bolt slap (rectified with a little Sorbothane and superglue) and the 230 grain RN hitting the target butt.

The local constabulary used it for a dog/sentry remover.
Regards,
Rabbit.

[beerslurpy]

No, suppressed shotguns work by having an uninterrupted tube with lots of holes to let out the gas into a sealed chamber. This prevents baffle strikes but it also channels the sound energy down the swiss-cheese barrel. As a result, it isnt as efficient as the traditional k-baffle design by a long shot. Large, heavy and loud.

I would love to do a camp carbine but finding one for less than 600 bucks is hard these days.

[dfaugh]

Noise from the action of a semi-auto can be eliminated by holding the action closed. The 10-22 can be fired with the third finger while the index finger holds the weapon in battery. If you try this with more powerful ammo, you're on your own; be careful.

Tried it, with subsonic ammo....hurt alot, and didn't work:mad:

[444]

"As someone mentioned, the early ones (like on the Delisle) worked along the lines of a car muffler, deflecting and slowing the gases. Effective, but big and bulky. Newer ones are much more effective, and use a variety of techniques (wipes, grease, etc.) and are much smaller."
Actually, the internals of the DeLisle suppressor look very much like a suppressor you would buy today. Suppressors with wipes are old school designs.
An interesting side note: I read an article a couple years ago in The Small Arms Review where the author found a one of a kind handgun that was built around a Maxim suppressor back around the turn of the 20th Century. The gun was owned by a slaughter house in Texas and has been used on a daily basis for right around 100 years. They gave an estimate of the rounds that this gun and suppressor had fired and it was way over 100,000 rounds. This suppressor was in service for years before the 1934 NFA, but when the NFA was enacted, they registered it. The author of the article tested this approx. 100 year old original Maxim suppressor using modern methods and compared it to present day, state of the art suppressors. That 100 year old can with 100k+ rounds through it easily held it's own against anything made today.

"here's a picture of one of my suppressor projects"
Where is the suppressor ?

"Brian beat me to it. Tamara's Turk Mauser project was sweet."
Did she ever give any details on it ? I remember when she had it built: I exchanged a few PMs with her. I even called the gunsmith that built it and talked to him about building me one since I also had a Turk Mauser that wouldn't headspace. But, the last I heard she didn't have a suppressor for it and I never heard how it shot or if the action functioned correctly with the .300 Whisper cartridge.

One point that really needs to be kept in mind (if anyone is really serious about doing this) is that doing extensive modifications to the rifle to permit feeding etc. is expensive and/or a lot of work. One of the beauties of the .300 Whisper is that it will work fine in a rifle originally designed to fire the .223 Remington cartridge. The magazine will work, the bolt face will work etc.

[Jonathan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/mjolnir/Withnightsight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/mjolnir/Closersightview.jpg

45-70 for the win.

[444]

That's exactly what I had in mind.
So give us some details instead of pictures. What loads are you shooting ? What suppressor are you using ? Are you satisfied with the report ? What about accuracy ? How long is the barrel without the can ? Are you able to shoot full bore .45/70 loads through the can ?

[jjohnson]

Great topic. Mine isn't suppressed, but I have neighbors closeby and load to subsonic levels just to keep them happy. I have a full bull barrel in .45ACP on my Enfield, and it's a real pussycat. Since I have a chronograph and loading software, custom loading to max while still subsonic is an easy excercise and makes good use of that (one) .45 bullet. I had considered, since it's a singleshot, having it rechambered to .45 Win Mag and using even heavier bullets at 1050 fps or so, but haven't seen a real reason yet to go there. My range is limited to 70 yards or so, so the trajectory isn't a big deal as I'm sighted to 50 yards. I'm half tempted to have the MUZZLE end - get this - chambered for 45 win mag so I can yank the barrel and turn it around, (and back again) but I'd have to make a custom muzzle cap.... and in the end, it would just be an interesting engineering project. I really don't want to go through the red tape on the suppressor but have thought about tinkering with a brake with enough 'baffle' to help noise a little without being illegal. The Camp 9 is a fun rifle, have one, but even 147-grain hollow points loaded up to the supersonic edge just don't have a lot of "whack" so I usually use the .45 instead. Anybody care to share data on some of these pistol bullets actually expanding (like they should) at 1000-1050 fps? Thanks.

[taliv]

"here's a picture of one of my suppressor projects"
Where is the suppressor ?

:( waiting on my stamp

[BrennanKG]

Taliv,

Both of the companies below provide USC to UMP conversions.
Have you or any of the others here heard anything about either?
I would LOVE to get my USC "UMP'd", SBR'd, and suppressed when we get to TX.

http://www.tacticalexcellence.com/home.html

http://www.top-notchparts.com/


Thanks,
B.

[taliv]

brennan, i know a little about topnotch. i bought a fisher ent m4dc can from a guy who was apparently buddy-buddy with topnotch and did a lot of their machining. i.e. they subbed machine work for the ump conversions, among other things, to him. as far as i can tell, his work is excellent, and i think (excepting bear coat and les baer) excellent people tend to hang together.

but that's not really much of an endorsement, as i've never put my hands on an actual topnotch conversion.

i also have an SL8 that i would like to get a g36 conversion done to, but so many other projects are ahead of it...

[Jonathan]

444, unfortunately, that's not mine. That particular rifle is used by a wildlife official in northern Europe (Finland, IIRC) to dispatch wounded animals (hit by cars etc) in populated areas during the 24-hour darkness they have part of the year.


I could probably find the contact information if you're really interested.



The 45-70 just seems like the best bet for what he's describing. Although I've heard that a totally quiet suppressed firearm is overrated, and supersonic shouldn't be avoided, if you want subsonic, then you might as well go big. Besides, a 45-cal can be used on essentially any caliber you have, with varying efficiency. It should be great with a 458 and of course overkill on 45ACP. How about .406 or .338? We can't all have a toy collection like Zak Smith, so the way I see it, diversity is your friend.

[jjohnson]

Just thinking, gents....

Hey, any reason not to consider say, a T/C Encore in whatever caliber makes you happy, but the can only on that barrel, and go from there? You can get the carbine stock and if you pay attention to the rules (barrel must be at least 16 inches) stay within the law. Seems like if you wanted the 300 Whisper this would be a snap.... or if you're into loading anything common like .45 acp, same deal.... if you're handloading you could just take any of your favorite rounds and calculate a subsonic load for whatever you're playing with. The noise made by the hammer fall on a T/C isn't much at all compared to the 'thump' of whatever you'd be hitting. Just a thought.

[Bigfoot]

Here's a link to a 300 Whisper forum http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27 It's a great place to kick around ideas, kinda slow though.

Here's an interesting quote from somebody there, I need to send him a PM to nail him down but maybe someone here can explain.

"I see you are on one of my favorite subjects again but don't forget one of the oldest rules about the sound level of subsonic ammo. The sound pressure level is directly proportional to the cross sectional area of the bullet or in other words .45 is one of the hardest ones to quiet and .17 is one of the easiest. Fast burning powder in a long barrel will get you started and most go middle road with 9mm or 308 to get the quietest with the most energy delivered to the target."

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=816

[beerslurpy]

Wow, this is an old thread. I decided on a cav arms/oly arms 45 carbine with an SRT suppressor. Best of everything, basically. I'm almost done putting together the gun itself, but there are probably at least a few months of waiting ahead of me before I finish this project.

All I'm waiting on (besides sending the upper off to SRT) are my yankee hill quad rail and my Oly Arms upper, both of which which should arrive sometime next week. In theory. Oly is apparently (I now discover) known for irrationally long backlogs. Still, the wait should totally be worth it.

[RWBlue01]

bump
I have been playing with the 300-221.
I am looking for the right supersonic bullet. Any suggestions?

[Ranb]

I shoot the 300 whisper on a TC carbine and AR15, 338 whisper on a rebarreled savage, 458 socom on AR15 and the 510 whisper on an Encore. The 510 is punishing, the 458 is not as long as it stays subsonic, the 300 is mild, and the 338 is not punishing but hits hard with a 300 grain or heavier bullet.

The 510W is easy to put on an Encore, but requires a custom barrel for a Sako or Remington action. The 338 and 458 are easy to chamber in any 308 rifle, especially the savage as long as the barrel maker can supply a 1-8 for he 338 and 1-12/14 for the 458. Anything can be made to shoot the 300W, but you need a 1-8 twist to stablise the 240 grain bullets.

Another idea would include 45 Win Mag in a bolt gun.

125 grain Nozlers work well for supersonic 300 whisper.

Ranb