[Dave McCracken]

When the kid with cobalt blue hair pulled the little NEF 20 gauge single from the Fender guitar case, I was a bit surprised at what happened next.

A few of us has been waiting for the trap to be restocked. My TB was in the rack, along with the usual collection of SBTs, autos and other shotguns more commonly used at a trap range than that NEF.

Two older shooters with straight patches on their vests saw the NEF, looked at each other, picked up their shotguns and left the range. Obviously, they didn't want to shoot with the kid. He and his GF were maybe 20, with a few too many earrings for my stodgy old self, but they weren't acting crazy or stupid.

I noted the kid kept the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and his GF was belting on a pouch/bag setup similar to mine. She took the NEF as we went to the line.I asked her if she had done this before. She smiled a little shyly and said she had shot, but not very much. She followed the safety rules and seemed to know where to stand and what to do. Even with that light shotgun, she tilted back like rookies do to counter the weight.

It was a 3 shooter squad, her, me and an older guy with that construction worker look of casual competence with mechanical things. He shot a BT99 fairtomiddlin'. After a shot or two, both of us started tutoring the girl. Her stance and swing improved, and she started hitting straightaways, tho the angles continued to elude her patterns.

She had a big smile as she handed the 20 gauge to her BF, and the other shooter, the BF and I went back for another round. He did poorly at first, until I told him to shut his left eye. Yup, another mixed dominance shooter. Then he hit most of them and had a grin like a possum eating roadkill as he cased that little 20. They thanked both of us and left.Before the left, though, I gave them this website, so they may be reading this.

As another group of shooters headed for the line, I sat down next to the BT99 guy and said I sure liked to teach rookies. He replied, after a moment's reflection,something like this....

"Those guys that left rather than shoot with the kids have their heads up their _____. The kids were safe, those guys just didn't want to shoot with rookies or those outside their own group. And those kids are the future of trapshooting, and shooting in general".

I agreed, and said that if every shotgunner taught ONE rookie a year to shoot,the future of gun ownership is a lot more secure than it is.

And after, I reflected on the fact that lots of us otherwise good folks have our own little biases and snobberies.

Some SC types thnk trapshooters are just grumpy ol' men too rigid to try something new.

Some trapshooters think SC types are showing off their incomes.

The Practical types think the clay shooters are effete psuedo-intellectuals, and the clay shooters oft regard the black BDU types as Rambo wannabees and Klan members.

And there's hunters who think the clay shooters are too queasy of stomach to shed bird blood.

Heck,there may even be some 870 owners out there that think that Mossie owners are inbred cheapskates who never wash below their collar line.

And it's more than time for this to stop.

The enemy is not some kids with an NEF trying to have safe fun at the range, it's Michael Moore.

The enemy is not some SC in a golf cart with a Perazzi, it's Sarah Brady.

The enemy is not some guy blasting steel plates in an amazingly short time period, it's Josh Sugerman.

The enemy's the fool with too many Buds in him blasting road signs with a shotgun.

The enemy's the hunter with too many ducks, the loudmouth bragging about jacking deer, the fool doing 90 MPH past cars with his bumper sticker saying "This vehicle insured by Smith and Wesson".

And the enemy's the guys who left the line because they didn't want to shoot with a beginner.

Pogo's immortal words do apply....

"We have met the enemy, and he is us".....

[Nightcrawler]

Excellent post, Mr. McCracken. I try to take new folks shooting whenever I can. In fact, I've got two young ladies, one from Japan and the other from mainland China, lined up to go with me this summer.

[PJR]

Good advice. Well said.

[JohnRov]

Yeah, I was really nervous when I started going trap shooting. But the guys are very cool (I'm 29 with two earrings and they are mostly older guys) and one very good shooter in particular works with me all the time. He locks the trap down and I work on specific shots from the same station before the majority of shooters arrive. I've gone from only having shot a shotgun a few times to shooting between 20/25 and 24/25 (I haven't run them yet!). My goal this season is to shoot a 47 and have my score counted for our team, as only the top ten scores are counted toward the team's total.

[foghornl]

Snobbery exists among the hunters, too. Case in point, ME.

When I first started shotgunning, I had a Savage/Stevens Mdl 94B, a break-action single shot in 16 GA. After a season or 2, I was putting just as many squirrels, ducks, quail & doves in the game bag as they were with their 12Ga Brownings, Ithicas, Remington & Winchesters.

And when 1 of the guys would give me a rash about my 16Ga pop-gun, I would drop in a short mag #4 load left from duck season, and say "here, try it out...:evil: "

After that, the bulkiest guy in the group called it a 'foot-a-more" gun....moves ya back a foot or more eveytime ya shoot it.

[riverdog]

Some folks shoot an NEF 20 because that's what they have. I started shooting Trap with an Rem 870 because that's what I had. No one walked, that I noticed, that I gave a rats *** about. Hell, one of them brought a Mossberg pump with plastic furniture to shoot Skeet.

I like the guys I shoot with. One traded me his Browning Lightning O/U for my 870 to shoot a round of Skeet. He still shot well and my score improved, but it did spoil me. Now I'm shooting my own Browning O/U and getting a new stock for the 870 because I still intend to shoot it on both the Trap and Skeet fields.

As far as kids with tattoos and earrings: Body piercing and RAP music are pretty common these days and if you write off every shooter who has one while they listen to Eminem you'll alienate a lot of the next generation. Personally, I can't stand that stuff, but anybody who shows up at a range to shoot is a potential pro-gun voter.

Out here in California, with dime a cartridge "fees" looming, we'll take pro-gun voters wherever we can get them. A lot of the next generation will have tattoos and piercings they'll regret later in life, no point in alienating them now.

[BigG]

Tamara summed it up pretty well quite a while back calling them "silly little tribes." :(

[Soap]

Don't forget that snobbery also exists when a bunch of guys who shoot 24s or 25s with their $2K O/Us scoff at the Perazzi shooter who only shoots a 21 or 22. Snobbery works both ways, and it is annoying 100% of the time.

[Johnpl]

I've noticed elitism in the woods and fields from those in tweed and leather who look down their noses at those in denim and canvas. Why do some distance themselves from others solely based upon appearance, attire, equipment? Hey, we've got the same passion! Let's share it!

[Correia]

Dave, awesome post. That needs to be in the book.

[Mike Irwin]

I've seen this happen many, many times.

I've been subject to it more than once myself.

You can't shoot that riot gun here! This is a skeet range? "No duh, a-hole..."

What are you doing with a pump shotgun on the sporting clays range?

"Getting ready for pheasant season."

You mean you actually HUNT? (surprised look on his face)

"Well, a-hole, unless they start stocking the sporting clays range with pheasants, yeah, I hunt. A-hole."

I've run into far too many shotgun shooters who believe in gun control.

They don't think their shotguns are guns, so they won't be affected by any anti-gun legislation.

The VERY best, though?

The old man who just about stroked out when I pulled a Lee Enfield .410 shotgun out of the case.

Even after he saw what it was, he continued to rant.

What an a-hole.

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks,folks, guess I'm not the only one that notices this. And it's glad I am of that.

Mike, more than once I've glanced at a shooter with a nice shotgun and thought it was a shame that such a nice shotgun was wasted on a jerk. It happens, and it's proof that money can buy material things but not character.

And I'm a little guilty of a reverse kind of snobbery too. You may recall me relating with glee about using Frankenstein (total cost,$140) and outshooting other folks with the high dollar stuff.

People are way too invested in dichotomizing, the Us vs Them thing. Let's remember that when seeing someone outside our "Silly little tribe".

[makdaddy03]

Amen, Brother Dave.:)

[PJR]

It's too bad a good, honest, from the heart post by Dave spirals into the usual diatribe about clay shooters particularly those who, for better or worse, decide to buy an expensive gun.

Mike's post is pretty unfortunate. It does prove however that attitude problems are not the sole preserve of people with high grade guns.

Neither of course is shooting ability but then we all knew that.

Paul

[Andrew Wyatt]

last time i went shotgun shooting, I had a similar experience with the owner of the range.

i brought along my NEF 20 gauge (with newly shortened 20 inch barrel) and my desert camo mossberg 500 persuader with extended mag tube, 20 inch barrel, and GR sights.

i got the strangest look from the guy, and a diatribe about how i should buy a ruger red label because my current shotguns wouldn't do. (like somehow a riot gun stops working on a trap field)

[Dave McCracken]

Paul, Mike's a good guy, I think this must have touched a nerve.

Among all flavors of shotgunners, the jerks are a small but obvious minority. Most shotgunners I know are great people.

Andrew, the facilities at PGC are terrific, which is one reason I shoot there. They do have a silly rule about barrel length, saying that a minimum of 23" is legit and banning all shorter ones. They SAY it's for too much blast and noise, but they've no problem with ported barrels, many of which are absolutely horrible blasters and noisy as all heck. IOW, the real reason is to keep EBS's out of there for whatever reasons.

H*ll, out of the 6 shotguns and 7 barrels here, only the NEF single and my TB qualify. And Frankenstein's my hunting shotgun, I'd love to shoot 5 stand and SC with it there.

And, that $#%^&* rule eliminates most "Youth" shotguns, like the 21" barreled YE here. Maybe that's why so few kids are shooting at PGC.

[Nightcrawler]

Maybe some people just like shorter barrels, too. I've never shot trap, or skeet (what's the difference, exactly?) but I don't see any reason you couldn't do it with an 18-20" shotgun. Personally, I wouldn't buy a shotgun with a barrel longer than 20", but that's me. I'm not in the market for a $3000 over and under, either...

[Dave McCracken]

'Crawler, obviously I like short barrels also. For an overview of trap and skeet, Meyer's Clay Target Handbook is about the best source I know.

And you should shoot some skeet, trap or SC. Being able to acquire and destroy two 4" clays moving at 35-50 MPH, oft in different directions, on a regular basis and in a very short time frame makes you absolutely $%^&*( deadly on larger, slower and more dangerous targets.

BTW,4" is about how wide the critical portion of the CNS is for most of its length..

[Nightcrawler]

Is a bead sight better for busting clays? My pumpgun has ghost rings.

I always have the NEF single shot w/ bead sight. I love that little boomstick.

[ysr_racer]

HI, what's NEF, TB, STB, BDU & SC ? Man, would those guys make fun of me. :)

[Nightcrawler]

NEF is New England Firearms, the company that made my little boomstick.

Not sure about the others...

[riverdog]

Nightcrawler,
Quick and dirty, Skeet gives you various angles of crossing targets, with both singles and doubles. Some are closing and some are going away.
Trap singles gives you single targets that start in front and go away at limited angles. Trap doubles gives you two targets at fixed angles.

Get the book Dave mentioned because it's got a lot of good info. For an online description, go to Remington's Reading Room (http://www.remington.com/whatsnew/readroom.htm) , under Shooting Sports you'll see both Trap and Skeet Shooting Fundamentals. HTH

[Smoke]

Heck,there may even be some 870 owners out there that think that Mossie owners are inbred cheapskates who never wash below their collar line.

But Dave, that isn't snobbery....Thats true! :neener:

Another well written post. I bow to you scattergun prowness, and your total galantry.

[Skunkabilly]

My trap and skeet range requires greater than 20"...the Benelli is like 19.5 and I think Remingtons are 18".

[Nightcrawler]

Ah, but you can put a 20" tube on a Remington 870. This will also allow use of a longer magazine tube, giving you 8+1 capacity instead of 7+1. And that rule also allows Mossberg 590s and 500As. A 590A1 with a bayonet mounted would get some looks at the skeet range, hey? :evil:

[Andrew Wyatt]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heck,there may even be some 870 owners out there that think that Mossie owners are inbred cheapskates who never wash below their collar line.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



But Dave, that isn't snobbery....Thats true!




i'm a mossberg owner because the 870 controls are inefficient places for a left handed person such as myself, it comes pre drilled for GR sights (on the reciever, the barrel needs an extra hole drilled and tapped in it) and the extended magazine tube model has no reliability problems because there is no seam.

if you want to continue using your ancient and outdated 870, go right ahead. :)

[genie]

huh, this got me curious. my only shotgun is a benelli nova and since i've started shooting trap last summer, i've always used the long 28" barrel. now i'm all curious to try trap with the short 18.5" barrel. i'm guessing i'll have to jump on the clays pretty quick but with the open cylinder the spread should be nice and wide :) that should be fun!

luckily the range i goto doesn't have barrel length restrictions.

[Dave McCracken]

Ysr.....

TB, shorthand for an 870 Trap, B grade. There are also C, D and F grades, varying in ornamentation and quality of wood.

BDU, Battle Dress Uniform, the military and LE garb for "Serious" work. You see them on the news constantly lately in Desert Camo.

SC,Sporting Clays.You should know THAT one(G)...

SBT, Single Barrel Trap. A dedicated type of trap gun good for little else.

To all, the only stupid questions are those that do not get asked. Ask away, I don't mind. And, if they make fun, the sin is theirs and not thine.

Genie, whatever floats your boat. But, choke and load determine pattern much more than barrel length.

Andrew,whatever works for you. I handle an 870 fine southpaw side, but YMMV. More important than brand is training, expertise and mindset.

'Crawler, with that bayonet it doesn't matter if the gun rack is crowded. Just stick it in the ground.

[Dizos]

It was refreshing to read your post Dave. Thank you. People are way too quick to hate and fear others. If you treat others with respect chances are they will return it. We all walk away from such encounters changed for the better.

-- Dizos

[ysr_racer]

Dave, cool, thanks.

So I'm a SC-er that wears BDU shorts and shoots a BOU. :)



BOU = Browning Over & Under

[Detritus]

the only stupid questions are those that do not get asked

ok possibly showing MY amount/lack of knowlege but what's the heck is an "EBS" as referenced in your post about barrel length restrictions???

[Mike Irwin]

"It's too bad a good, honest, from the heart post by Dave spirals into the usual diatribe about clay shooters particularly those who, for better or worse, decide to buy an expensive gun."

I don't give a rat's reticulated rump how much someone's shotgun cost, PJR.

If it cost a lot, and they're a nice person, GREAT.

If it cost a lot, and they're a jerk, NOT great.

If they're shooting a stinking HR Topper and they're a jerk, NOT great.

Being a jerk isn't the preserve of the guy who owns a high-end gun.

Unfortunately, though, in all of the gun sports I play at, I have met FAR more jerkwads holding shotguns than I have holding rifles or handguns.

And seeing that I've participated in a LOT more handgun and rifle sports than I have shotgun sports, that's not a good percentage.

When I go to the range, I want to interact with the people I came to shoot with. I don't want someone breathing down my neck about how my shotgun isn't appropriate, or I'm not wearing the right clothes, or how I'm making everyone else look bad by shooting in the high teens/low 20s wiht a *GASP* police-style shotgun.

Cut me a :cuss: ing break.

Oh, and for the record?

One of the nicest guys I EVER met on a sporting clays range is worth probably 20 times what every one of us posting to this thread makes -- a bona fide billionair.

Oh that simple millionairs were so decent.

[Mike Irwin]

Genie,

I guarantee you, it's a COMPLETELY different game with a short barreled gun!

[Dave McCracken]

Detritus,EBS is Evil Black Shotgun.The smoothbore version of those Evil Assault Weapons the Media and some pols rant about. There are also Evil Black Rifles.

Maybe we oughta float a glossary of Shotgunspeak.

Or maybe I should use standard English....

Mike,I've run across more jerks (as a proportion) at Practical/Tactical/IPSC matches than elsewhere, but it's still a small minority.

Most of that crew, especially the LE end, are fine shooters and fine human beings.

Most seasoned shooters tend towards reason, the louts and loudmouths tend to weed themselves out early.

Even with old and cantankerous trapshooters, it's only a small minority where, beneath their crusty exteriors beat the hearts of true SOBs....

[genie]

last night, i tried a round of trap with the short 18.5" barrel. for readers who happen to be in this lovely state of maryland, i was at the associated gun clubs in marriotsville.

for those that are curious, my impressions are below.

in a word - whoah! it sure did get the attention of the other shooters! :D they was a few questions if it was even an atf legal barrel. but they only gave me some good natured jesting b/c they were curious as well.

the short length really impacts the weight of the gun especially out front. follow-through was especially difficult b/c it was so quick-handling and light that my support hand would "snap" to the clay and then stop when firing.

additionally, the short barrel has open rifle sights, not a bead. that really changed how my eyes targeted the clay, b/c i was unintentionally treating the clay like a handgun target and trying to aim instead of pointing. this also greatly hindered any follow-through.

all in all, with the short barrel i broke a 10 out of 25 :p and gave the other shooters some humor for the night. after that, i went back to the long barrel and the weight and bead really helped in follow-thru and sight acquisition. it was fun blasting away but i'll keep the short barrel for serious duty when the shotgun's in the house.

[PJR]

Mike,I've run across more jerks (as a proportion) at Practical/Tactical/IPSC matches than elsewhere, but it's still a small minority.
That's my experience too. I remember the disparaging remarks made by the instructor when I showed up for a Black Badge course with my 4" .38 revolver, pancake holster, speed loaders, etc. I was shooting PPC at the time and wanted to try the other sport before investing serious dollars in a race gun.

At my first practice match I was definitely an oddity and some (not all) of the local hotshots paternalistically advised me that wasn't "going anwhere in this sport" with a wheelgun. I would like to say I waxed the tail of the racegunners but finished dead last only to recieve the "I told you so" attitude.

This is in sharp contrast to the warm welcome I got when I showed up at the local trap club with my 18" 870. The rest is history.

Paul

[Mike Irwin]

Oh I've run into plenty of jerks with $3,000-$5,000 1911s who think their S don't S, no doubt about it, and lord knows I've written more than one flaming diatribe about the "gentrification" of popular handgun, shotgun, and rifle sports.

In general, though, they seem to be by far the minority at the shoots where I go.

The jerkwad percentage is much higher in the shotgun sports.

[Dave McCracken]

Genie, you're a homeguy. The Wednesday crowd at AGC is a good bunch. There's a little known group of seniors who shoot Wednesday afternoon, fine folks.

I'm gonna try to get to PGC Sunday Morning or AGC in the early afternoon. I'll PM you. Maybe we can get together.

As for 10/25, under the circumstances you did good. New games are tough.

[Penforhire]

The fellow who got me into skeet let me shoot one of his engraved Beretta o/u's for my first rounds and that was sweet. I ended up buying an 870 and then we shot plenty together. Eventually I even remembered to pump for that second bird...

But anyway, I don't get a lot of snobbery at the regular skeet ranges. Most of the grizzled old guys just say, "yep, that's a real solid gun to start with." But even my friend with the four-&-five-figure guns mentioned the trap people tended to be snobs. I haven't worked up the gumption to give it a whirl.

[Hkmp5sd]

Snobbery happens with all classes and models of firearms. A few years back, several of us were at the range sighting in scopes for hunting season and a young guy drove up and pulled out his "new" Remington 700. The rifle was obviously used, but the kid was still really proud of it. It had probably taken him a long time to save up to buy it.

In the next lane was two guys with tricked out, glass bedded, composite stocked, top of the line rifles and scopes. They laid into the guy, telling him how sorry his rifle was, that he'd wasted his money on a worn out POS, etc.

Fortunately, a few other shooters stood up for the kid and helped him sight in his scope. They managed to convince him the other two guys were just a couple of idiots and they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Guyon]

Hkmp5sd: That would have burned me up. People that base their self-worth on possessions seem to get such a kick out of ridiculing the possessions of others, but in the long run, they're going to miss out on all the really good stuff in life. I'm proud that some of you stood up for the kid.

It ain't what you own. It's how you conduct yourself with what you've got.

[Detritus]

Hkmp5sd, i know that if such actions had occured at most of the ranges i've frequented, would be a sure ticket to expulsion or " a kick'in".

derision of newcomers is a HUGE no-no in all the circles i've chosen to travel in, and is a pretty much ganunteed way to get your "acceptance" in the group quickly and permanently revoked.

[Dave McCracken]

HK, had I been there, those two would have been told exactly what they could kiss.

Some years back I was checking in a doe at the checkin station and some kid came in with his dad and his first deer, a little button buck. Kid (maybe 13 or so) was proud and his dad was too. Some jerk made a comment about shooting fawns and damn near got his worthless butt kicked by a committee of all present.

Penforhire, most trapshooters that I know aren't snobs. Some are grumpy, opinionated and set in their ways. But a newbie with manners walking onto a trap field meets little hostility and gets much encouragement from most of the folks. Go shoot some trap....

We all know jerks that think money or fancy toys compensate for whatever personal lacks and flaws they have. And we know folks who love the fancy stuff but aren't jerks at all. Dougie, from the Geezer Squad, owns more shotguns that he can remmeber, including Purdeys. A nicer guy never drew breath.

Jerks get really dangerous, however, only when he or she starts thinking the best stuff is what they deserve.

[Gerald McDonald]

Snobbery is an unfortunate fact of life. Its our way of showing how superior were are to our fellow man, when deep down inside we are not to sure that maybe he is not superior to us.

I am in the welding business and know a rig welder who is a nice guy but when a rig welder shows up on the job with a small air cooled welder, will actually roll up his welding leads and leave the job rather than sulley his reputation with other rig hands by working with what he sees as a novice.

I ride a Honda motorcycle so I catch a lot of grief from Harley guys, not all, but some. I have found that most who really rip me just recently got Harleys theirself. The guys who have been on HD for years simply say its not what you ride, its that you ride. Me, I dont care what you shoot, drive or ride, wear, litsten to or look like as long as there is no danger to me.

[Hawaiian]

I have had the same thoughts when I see someone with cobalt blue hair and earings. When my 13 yr old son spiked his hair, I told him it looked like crap. I also told him that the Rap he was listening to was not music. Then I realized that I had turned into my own Dad as this is the exact words he said to me 35 years ago when I had long hair and listened to Jimi Hendrix. We do grow up and the kid with the blue hair will some day say the same thing to his kid.

As for the Snobs and Jerks, they are everywhere, not just at the range. I actually pity them as they are obviously unhappy individuals and that is why they act the way they do. Those of you that stayed at the range and helped out the kids had a much more enjoyable day than the Jerks that left and grumbled to eachother all the way home.

It feels much better to smile than it does to frown.

[Mike Irwin]

Hey Hawaiian,

Best way to nip that kind of stuff in the budd?

Spike your own hair, and start listening to rap.

Your kid will drop that so fast it's not even funny. :)

[Dave McCracken]

Gerald, when I bowhunted I used either a compound with carbon arrows and a release or longbows and recurves with hand sharpened broadheads. Some of my buddies hunted with the latest cam bows, others with bows they made. One started its working life as a fence post.

I cared not a whit whether the next hunter over used an atlatl or somehting belt fed and lazer sighted, as long as he/she hunted safely, ethically, and mostly hit what they aimed at. My buddies bickered over tackle like toddlers in a preschool sandbox just before naptime. But they were ready to outlaw what the others used.

As for snobs and jerks, it's the Bozo Factor. It only takes one clown to $#%^&*( it up for everyone.

[HSMITH]

I held off for a long time on this thread, but can't help it. Shotgunning has by far the biggest percentage of real honest-to-goodness dinkheads (<change one letter:scrutiny: ). I have shot at gun clubs all over the country and with every type of shooter that I know of except 3 gun and cowboy types, I am anxious to try both.

Trap shooters were the worst 10 years ago, now it seems to be the sporting crowd being the highest in dinks. It is the same type of guy that it was in the trap crowd too, a pompous *** with enough money to make you sick. I REALLY enjoy beating them with "inferior" equipment, a spray painted 870 topping a Krieghoff held by a jerk is priceless. Trap still has more than enough jerks for me, the guy yelling at a newbie over not having a shell catcher or talking during the round, things like that bother the heck out of me. I am not smart enough to keep my mouth shut and it has caused some problems on the trap field when someone gets pissy with another shooter. Unsafe gun handling is the ONLY time to bother over the way another shoots.

The BEST shooters by far in my opinion are high power rifle shooters. These dang guys and gals will do ANYTHING they can to help you shoot well and have fun.

[Andrew Wyatt]

it happens in every segment of society.


back when i was involved in FIRST (www.usfirst.org), there were really well funded teams who would bend over backwards to help others out.

there were also dinkheads who thought they were "all that and a bag of chips" and sneered at other teams and were unruly and ill behaved. needless to say, people enjoyed when the dinkheads lost rounds.

I've seen snobbery at science fairs, spelling bees, and amongst engineering students in the engineer's club. it's like death and taxes, only more annoying.

[Dave McCracken]

The obverse of course, is that all forms of human endeavor have fine folks involved therein.

I shot a few rounds of trap today, with the usual suspects and a few newcomers. No one was a jerk, and the guns ranged from a new Turkish O/U through 870s and 1100s to a jewel like LC Smith SBT and a Kreighoff or two. We hit most of the targets and no one seemed to have more/less fun than the rest.

Jerks in any form make my knuckles itch, a common Psychosomatic disorder in veteran Correctional Officers. The best thing, however, is to indicate in some way that being a jerk or snob really isn't making a good impression.

Occasionally I outshoot folks with high priced and fancy guns. With good folks it's just a source of well intended hilarity, with snob, jerks and those who believe they have the One True Way, it's a good comeuppance.

[mikey357]

Excellent points, Dave, as usual...it IS unfortunate, but I have seen more than my fair share of "Dinkheads" participating in the various clay-target games, too...seems like "Tactical"/IDPA/IPSC-type pistol isn't far behind, either...wonder if any of the "Dinkheads" ever pause to THINK about the future of the shooting sports and where the "New Blood" will come from??...hhmmm...wonder if the "Dinkheads" are even CAPABLE of thought???....mikey357

[UnintendedConsequences]

It is because of snobbery that I haven't gotten into shotgun shooting sports.

I have a friend who is really into trap and skeet shooting, but I was taken aback when I wanted to get into those things and she told me that while my woodland camoed Mossberg 835 is nice to start out with, a good over-under would be better suited.

I overheard a trap and skeet shooter in a gunshop a few days ago talking about wanting a certain over under to improve his score. He went on to say that he wasn't too keen on those who used semiautos or pumps on the course because they weren't as nice as an over under. He then went on to say that he wondered where all the trap and skeet shooters were. He said that it seemed like every year there were fewer and fewer.

I never said a word to either one about what I thought of their statements. I just know that I can take game out to 40 yards with my shotgun and its extra full choke. I also know that I can take a deer down with a slug out of my fully rifled barrel.

My short 24 inch barrels don't get hung up on brush, the woodland camo finish is dull and is like multicolored parkerizing and keeps bumps, dings and scratches from standing out. The synthetic stock is unaffected by the weather.

Maybe my gun isn't the fanciest, but it works for me. I like a gun that I can use, not pamper. I also prefer to do things, like getting into highpower shooting, where I can be around people who warmly welcome new shooters even if they don't have the most expensive or newest gear.

Just my view... :)

[Dave McCracken]

Mikey, our definition of ourselves as an intelligent species is quite exaggerated. Usually we use emotion, prejudice and reaction instead of rational thought.

One of the most common mistakes we make is thinking...

"I don't like it so it must be bad"....

UC, The first rule of getting into the shotgun sports is to have a shotgun. Run what ya brung. There may be "better" shotguns for the clay sports but if it can be operated by you safely and effectively,your 835 is welcome on my squad and certainly many others.

[HSMITH]

UC, take that ugly 'ol 835 out there and spank some O/U butts, it really is fun even if it is sort of childish:neener: .

[KeysBear]

I'm forty six years old and got my first shotgun last summer. It's the cheapest Mossberg 500 12 gauge. I bought it for home defense, and wanted to be familiar with it, so I took it out to a county park where they have trap and skeet ranges. I got my ticket and headed out to the trap range where I found the range master teaching a high school age kid the basics with a great deal of patience. When the range master was through, a couple of regulars helped the kid with his stance, posture, and sighting. When I announced that I was a novice myself the range master was just as patient and helpful with me. Before I knew it I was shooting in a squad with the regulars, and did pretty good for my first go around. My Mossberg did just fine, and it was a very enjoyable experience. I can see how it could have all been totally different if I'd run into the wrong bunch of guys. Regards, Keys

[Dave McCracken]

KeysBear, probably your experience was typical. The jerks attract attention, and are thus more memorable.

[45auto]

I have been lucky. My experience with shotgunners, the ones that shoot a lot and compete in particular, is very little snobbery.

They(I) have seen too many different types of people, styles of shooting and different guns win in competition, to comment about someone's gun.

That doesn't mean all the people I have met are nice- they aren't.
But the majority are very good and at the very least... interesting!
How many sports can you find a "factory worker" socializing with a "CEO" of a company. A simple comment like "nice gun" will often be followed by the gun being handed to you to try! Good way to try different guns.

But, there are jerks, so we just keep the "newbies" away from them, just like in the "real world".

[Dave McCracken]

Funny you should mention that. At PGC I've gotten to try a Kolar(Combo, about $9K), a Purdey (Who knows how much), Ithaca and Parker SBTs, Beretta and Browning O/Us, a Kreighof, a Remington 3200,a couple classic 870 WMs, a highly tweaked clay gas gun or 5 and so on. Owners ran from a guy who worked on the county roads to a couple of wealthy retired types.

Snobs don't seem to be at the top of the local talent. Maybe that's why they're snobs. Or maybe being at the top burns off some of the dross. I know some highly competitive shooters, including a couple ATA Hall of Famers. These folks are highly interested in HOW one shoots, not WHAT one shoots.

Like one told me, it ain't the gun....

[Dave McCracken]

Funny you should mention that. At PGC I've gotten to try a Kolar(Combo, about $9K), a Purdey (Who knows how much), Ithaca and Parker SBTs, Beretta and Browning O/Us, a Kreighof, a Remington 3200,a couple classic 870 WMs, a highly tweaked clay gas gun or 5 and so on. Owners ran from a guy who worked on the county roads to a couple of wealthy retired types.

Snobs don't seem to be at the top of the local talent. Maybe that's why they're snobs. Or maybe being at the top burns off some of the dross.

I know some highly competitive shooters,including a couple ATA Hall of Famers.These folks are highly interested in HOW one shoots, not WHAT one shoots.

Like one told me, it ain't the gun....