BIG shocker in class today


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Azrael256
April 29, 2003, 03:01 PM
So I'm sitting in my Evolution of Science and Technology class (abbreviated Evo. Sci/Tech, or Evil Sci/Tech for those of us taking it) and we're discussing (listening to the prof lecture) the effects of science and technology on mankind. Somehow individual rights vs. the rights of society come up... Now, I should mention that my prof has about a ten-foot-thick German accent and a PhD, so I'm expecting lefty tripe...

"Some people say they want to strap a gun to their leg and carry it around. I say 'Hold on a minute!' We must ask why you want a gun. You say it's for protection, well you can't just go walking around the street and see something come by and start shooting. You have to be subject to restrictions."

At this point I'm thinking "oh boy, here it comes..."

"You have to have a set of rules that you follow. If you want to strap on a gun, I say go ahead, but you musn't use it without good reason or you violate the rights of society."

*CHOKE* "WHAT?!?!?"

He then goes on to talk about how the "rights of society" seem to have trumped individual rights, and how a democracy is the only government under which science can flourish. I'm almost speechless. I'm really upset by this because I discovered it at the end of the semester!

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cool45auto
April 29, 2003, 03:10 PM
I'm not gonna "start shooting" at something that "comes by" unless that something means me bodily harm!:rolleyes: :banghead:

keyhole
April 29, 2003, 03:19 PM
Hmmmm, a college that has prof's that really think first? Man, what a novel concept. We do have one of our shooters who teaches at the local State university. He said that he kept his opinions to himself, until he builds up his tenure. He is a great rifle shot.

4v50 Gary
April 29, 2003, 03:32 PM
A shocker indeed.

chaim
April 29, 2003, 03:43 PM
"You have to have a set of rules that you follow. If you want to strap on a gun, I say go ahead, but you musn't use it without good reason or you violate the rights of society."...

He then goes on to talk about how the "rights of society" seem to have trumped individual rights, Have you invited your professor to the range yet? Sounds like a promising gunny if he isn't already.

RustyHammer
April 29, 2003, 03:51 PM
How much is college tuition these days ... ouch and ouch again.

9mmepiphany
April 29, 2003, 04:29 PM
you'd be surprised by which professors might be into guns...i've found the greatest numbers in the philosophy department and among the jesuits...see they do teach thinking "outside the box"

Jeff OTMG
April 29, 2003, 05:43 PM
Of course you are in OKC. I would not expect that very many places.

Standing Wolf
April 29, 2003, 05:51 PM
Law-abiding American citizens do follow the rules, of which there are a great many.

9mmepiphany
April 29, 2003, 06:03 PM
my last "find" was in sacramento CA, in an ethics class. we compared notes on the best medicine for the squirrels pillaging his walnuts. i even printed up some targets for him...he was a jesuit

Seminole
April 29, 2003, 06:34 PM
keyhole wrote:
Hmmmm, a college that has prof's that really think first? Man, what a novel concept.

Whoa, there! Watch those prejudices! I am a college professor. I happen to be an avid shooter and hold a CCL in two states. I hold to libertarian political philosophy and consider myself a dedicated Christian in the Baptist tradition. My faculty colleagues tend to have quite varied backgrounds and hold a wide range of views on social and political issues. While I disagree with many of them on any number of issues, thinking is actually what they do best. The fact that their opinions may differ from yours or mine is not reason to accuse them of being unthinking. I wish I could tell you the number of conversations I have had with many of them about ways in which to foster critical thought among our students. One of the problems we face in that struggle is getting students to recognize their own prejudices for what they are--literally the "pre-judging" of issues, ideas, and people based on preconceived notions rather than an open-minded examination of the possible facts (such as that thoughtful college professors might not be a novelty).

Such knee-jerk reactions really smack of anti-intellectualism and are counter-productive if our intention is to persuade rather than merely antagonize.

Harold Mayo
April 29, 2003, 08:09 PM
While in an MBA program at a private religious university in a large metropolitan area, I encountered an Eastern European economics professor who was in his late 20's and a little preppy. I expected some leftist babble but, surprisingly, the guy was a staunch Libertarian (or libertarian). He owned no firearms himself but he firmly understood the need for them and proclaimed in no vague terms that he firmly supported individual rights like the ownership and bearing of arms. He explained that he had grown up behind the Iron Curtain and was a relatively recent immigrant to the U.S. who felt that most US citizens really needed to experience the "joys" of socialism/communism before they sung the praises of it. He reminded me of the joke in "Unintended Consequences" that proclaimed that a class, "The Benefits of Socialism", was offered at a university for about 5 minutes each month.

Although I didn't grow up in another country, I've traveled enough to know just how good our own nation is, regardless of how we feel its going or has gone to crap. More people need to travel a little to see for themselves just how fantastic life is in other countries when compared to this one.

Sisco
April 29, 2003, 08:12 PM
Editor of the local newspaper is still stuck on the "If we have a concealed carry law, there will be killings at every stoplight, the wild west will seem tame" train of thought.
He will not listen to reason.

Azrael256
April 30, 2003, 01:33 AM
Have you invited your professor to the range yet? Sounds like a promising gunny if he isn't already. Not this one, BUT, a certain prof in the religion department who is a noted pacifist and self-described socialist (I've seen his membership card!) asked me the other day if I would take him to the range. Needless to say I was stunned, but on further reflection, he may be VERY lefty but he more or less subscribes to the "you leave me alone, I leave yo alone" theory, which means he doesn't have a problem with a person owning a gun as long as they're law-abiding. We're going this weekend :)

LiquidTension
April 30, 2003, 05:06 AM
Seminole - well said, indeed. From accounts I've read on this board and on TFL, many people have had professors that bring up firearms in class and then do not listen or give any credit at all to the pro-gun side of the argument. Perhaps this is why so many have a negative view of college professors? I have had a few professors like that, but strangely firearms have never really come up in any class I've been in.

COHIBA
April 30, 2003, 07:49 AM
why the shock?
the national pasttime of germany is target shooting. they view it like we do football and baseball.
in fact shooting competitions at weedings were comonplace very few years ago. they actually used painted wooden targets w/ scenes of the chapel or a landscape. these are worth a good deal of money now and can be found on some auction sites from time to time.
but, i'm getting off the point. how do you think a reigon comes up w/ companys like walther, HK, Steyr, mannlicher ect.
you dont see a conection?

Art Eatman
April 30, 2003, 08:52 AM
COHIBA, "That was then, this is now." Now, you need a psychiatric evaluation even to buy an air rifle. The companies you mention are now mostly producing for export, not for sales in Germany to "just folks".

Art

c_yeager
April 30, 2003, 09:00 AM
Strange thing i noticed going to a really liberal university is that when i person gets far enough to the left the sorta start coming around to the right. If you think of the political ideology spectrum (sounds like a lot of nonsense already doesnt it?) as a circle then it makes sense. Some of the most liberal people i met were actually more supportive of individual rights than a lot of "conservatives" ive met. It just goes to show that nothing is really all that black and white in this world.

Bonker
April 30, 2003, 09:04 AM
That's pretty surpising!

Profs are rarely that smart.

In fact, I've put together a list of life-form intelligence from smartest to dumbest as a guide:

College grads
Master's degree recipients
High school grads
High school drop-outs
Cows
Dumb cows
Plankton
Dead plankton
Democrats
College professors
Tenured professors
Administrators
Sarah Brady

I hope that helps !

Bonker
April 30, 2003, 09:07 AM
"Some of the most liberal people i met were actually more supportive of individual rights than a lot of "conservatives" ive met."

You are beginning to see the line between conservatives and Libertarians. A lot of folks who think they are conservatives, in fact, aren't.
The one thing conservatives and liberals have in common is that they believe in freedom, as long as you're using your freedom the way they want you to use it.

DCR
April 30, 2003, 04:14 PM
Are you sure he wasn't just baiting the lefties to get an animated discussion going?

Azrael256
April 30, 2003, 05:07 PM
Are you sure he wasn't just baiting the lefties to get an animated discussion going? The thought did cross my mind, but it's an 0800 class on the gen-ed list, so there really isn't much animated anything going on in that room. He is a VERY rational person and he values logic over emotion, so it may well be that he just looked at the facts and arrived at the logical conclusion.

Horsesense
April 30, 2003, 05:19 PM
"Not this one, BUT, a certain prof in the religion department who is a noted pacifist and self-described socialist (I've seen his membership card!) asked me the other day if I would take him to the range. "

Somthing just dont add up. Is this guy Gay? then again, it's not somuch that they dont believe that they should have a gun, they dont want everyone else to have a gun.

9mmepiphany
April 30, 2003, 05:25 PM
it seems to add up to me...

remember that alvin york was a proclaimed pacifist, while the well armed swiss and swedes are socialist

Gus Dddysgrl
May 1, 2003, 12:04 PM
Wow I wish I knew profs at my university who went to the range. I know of several who are anti-gun, but they hardly ever let us discuss it. Besides my philosophy class is all about things like God and more on the spiritual side.... it's boring cause no one in the class cares and we don't get to any good issues to debate.

Maybe I need to transfer. Or maybe just change my major and get away from these annoy English profs who never bring up anything new or all that interesting.

9mmepiphany
May 1, 2003, 12:36 PM
maybe i was just lucky to get in interesting philosophy classes...

in one (ethics) we had a debate on the obligation to defend oneself vs. depending on others (LE)...another debate was the right to use deadly force...victim mentality

in another (intro) we had major discussions (heated) of individual rights and existence. i also met a beautiful wiccan who invited me out for drinks. :p

Mark Tyson
May 2, 2003, 09:42 PM
I had a criminal justice professor who wore an NRA hat to every class! He was a life member. Later found out there was a whole slew of gun nuts in the criminal justice department, and they all hung out in his office, plotting and scheming ...

earl_simmons
May 3, 2003, 11:22 AM
How about this one - I took a class taught by Dr. Arthur Kellerman (anyone familiar with "anti-gun" research should be aware of this person) and he mentioned that he enjoyed recreational shooting. During one of his slideshows, he also presented a slide depicting a news article about an elderly woman's successful use of a firearm to defend herself from an intruder.

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