[dfariswheel]

I recently read on one of the gun forums that "due to substandard parts and numerous failures" the NYPD are no longer allowing Kahr Arms pistols to be used.

The poster made reference to some failed attempt to "retro-fit" the guns with new parts.

Any one know if Kahr is still authorized?

[MCgunner]

Sounds like BS to me, have to see the proof. So many people out there anti this and that wanna pass around rumors. Heck, I don't care much for Glock, but I hear about a AD, I take it with a grain of salt until I see the proof (like that idiot DEA agent:D ). That's the major knock on them, all the ADs. Lots of it, like that DEA agent, is stupid, unsafe gun handling. Now, there are folks that hate Smith and Wesson and talk about lock failures, hate 1911s and talk about jams, hate revolvers and 9mms and talk about the FBI Miami shootout, hate even RUGERS I read right on this board. Whatever. I read it all with a grain of salt. I know my own likes and dislikes.

I've tried the Kahr K9. Didn't put that many rounds through it and have never owned one, but I find the NYC thing hard to believe. If they did ban it, I'd like to hear the whole story as to why, not just "inferior parts", but WHAT inferior parts and how do you come to this conclusion? What failures lead to this? Anyone here have the scoop???? I remain a skeptic.

[dfariswheel]

I quite agree that the post sounds like BS, but I was wondering if anyone had heard for sure if the NYPD still allowed Kahr's as off-duty guns.

[ABBOBERG]

Based on my experience with my PM9, there might be some truth to the NYC story. Unlike the general public, and most THR members, cops are probably not treating the Kahr products as only "range guns" and are having to use them in real-life scenarios. That means that they have to shoot the rounds that have actually been carried around in the magazine awhile. I know that I can pretty much shoot my PM9 all day at the range with freshly loaded mags of ball ammo and rarely see a failure, but I know for a fact that when I have carried this gun for a while, and the hollow point rounds in the mag have been jostled around, I can get severe rim lock that takes about 1 minute of hard fingering to clear out. This has happened to me twice in two "false-alarms" (with two different mags). I no longer carry this gun.

[RNB65]

ABBOBERG --

Have you sent it to Kahr for repair? I bought a P9 a few months ago that experienced occasional FTF's. Sent it to Kahr and they polished everything up. Has been totally reliable since then. I carry it with Black Hills 124gn +P and it works fine.

[ABBOBERG]

Yes, I did send it in for repair, but the new magazine worked no better than the original one. I am beginning to think that there is a design flaw....
As long as I use this gun at the range I can get this gun to work OK. Off the range is a different story...

[MCgunner]

Interesting. I know I will rotate magazines a lot on any auto I am carrying every day for extended periods, especially double stack ones. I've had 'em get sticky on me and fail to push the rounds up in the magazine. This seems to be more prevalent with double stack mags. Haven't had the problem at all in a long time, but I do rotate mags. Heck, if I'm carrying an auto, I'll usually make it out to the range every couple of weeks and shoot it there anyway. It has to sit a long time for me to see this problem and I've never been real sure what causes it. Hasn't done this in either my P11 or P85, but I still rotate magazines religiously in any auto, even a single stack like the 1911, just out of habit and to keep my mind at ease. May not be necessary, but I do it anyway. Makes me feel better that I know the mags are functional.

Does sound like your PM9 has a problem that might be a little worse than stale magazines, though.

[TexAg]

I was curious about this rumor since my wife realy likes the K9 and is thinking about getting one, so I did a search in the Kahr Club forum at glocktalk (search "nypd"). It seems there may have indeed been a problem and Kahr came out to the NYPD ranges and checked out officer's guns and changed springs etc. Sounds like they were trying to deal with the problems they were having, but too bad they even let guns go out that had problems. I never found anything that said that the NYPD were no longer letting them use them though. Makes me hesitate about Kahr, I've read alot about apparent QC problems.

[Leadbutt]

Khar like all others have suffered from their sucess, The Stell framed ones have for me been always good to go never any problems, the Polymer framed ones are a different story, my Pm9 was involved in the barrel recall, after talking with customer service, I never sent it back,,after break in I have never had a problem with it ,and the 124+p gold dots are what I use,, My last partner before I retired swore by his P40 and has never had a problem,, but during quals on our range we saw a few the had small problems passed the normal brak in round count..

MY present T-9 has over 3000 rounds of +p thru it and has never missed a beat.

Like any thing else pay's your money take your chance

[Guns_and_Labs]

I know that I can pretty much shoot my PM9 all day at the range with freshly loaded mags of ball ammo and rarely see a failure, but I know for a fact that when I have carried this gun for a while, and the hollow point rounds in the mag have been jostled around, I can get severe rim lock that takes about 1 minute of hard fingering to clear out. This has happened to me twice in two "false-alarms" (with two different mags). I no longer carry this gun.

Very interesting and disturbing. I carry a P9 quite regularly, practice a lot with it, and never have had a problem. BUT, I've never taken it directly from my holster and started my training session. I freshly load my magazines with training rounds. Now you've got me worried...

[wrangler5]

Abboberg, I wonder if you have any explanation for how you can get rim lock with rimless cases in a single stack magazine? I'm not doubting that it happened to you, I'm just having a hard time visualizing the mechanics of how it could be. :confused: And I'm thinking of trading in my Kel Tec P3AT for a PM9, to use as a primary carry gun, so this is a real question.

I do find it difficult to unload one of my Makarov magazines when it's full if I'm only using my thumb (a plastic or wooden pusher of some sort helps a lot.) But if I stick the mag in the gun and rack the slide it works just fine. So I don't think that's a case of rim lock.

[dfariswheel]

I did an experiment early on with my early stainless K9.

After the 200 round break-in, I thoroughly cleaned both the gun and magazines, properly lubed it, loaded it and put the gun and two spare mags in a fanny pack with an internal holster, and elastic loops to hold the mags.

I'd already experimented with it, and found that day-to-day wear would cause rounds to work out of the spare magazine unless they were put in the elastic loops the right way around.

Once I figured it out a way to insert them so the rounds would stay put, I carried the fanny pack all day, everyday for 30 days, WITHOUT even opening the gun pocket.

After 30 days I went to the range, and with NO preparation, I drew the Kahr and fired all three magazines just as you might in a real shooting incident.

The Kahr fired all 3 mags with NO stoppages or problems.

At that point, I decided it was good to go.

The reason for my question about whether the NYPD is still authorizing the Kahr is, the post on another forum makes it sound like Kahr was selling guns made of SUBSTANDARD metals, and that even after Kahr did a "Retro-fit program" that also failed, the NYPD was no longer authorizing officers to carry the Kahr, but WAS grandfathering those already in use.

Something smells about this, because Kahr has one of the better reputations, and I don't see a major gun maker selling guns to police that are made of bad metals.

What I'm tryingto find out is, if anyone knows for sure just WHAT the NYPD policy on the Kahr is.

[TexAg]

I read they had some problems with barrel peening and I saw some pictures that showed a barrel that looked like it was somewhat soft. Also read about the trigger not returning to the forward position after a round was fired.
I'm not sure Kahr has one of the "better reputations" anymore (like Leadbutt said, victim of their own success?). Seems like they have had problems especially with the p-series. Suggest you go look in the Khar forum at glocktalk, there was a link in one thread to an NYPD forum.