"Stand your ground" and "No Confiscation" Laws


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Hawkmoon
June 11, 2006, 06:28 PM
My state has neither, and I want to try to change that. The time to start working on it is now, while the legiscritters are not in session.

I would appreciate links to the complete, exact text of any state's statutes that covers these topics. For example, I believe Florida enacted both this year, and Louisiana recently enacted a no confiscation law. I thought some other states did, also, but I've just searched back several pages worth of index in Legal & Political and not found anything.

Thanks in advance for any links anyone can provide.

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Mannlicher
June 11, 2006, 06:44 PM
The NRA helped put these together
HB-285 No Confiscation of Firearms During Emergencies

A bill to prohibit confiscation of firearms following hurricanes (such as was done in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina). Passed the Florida Legislature 5/3/06.

HB-285 Sponsored by Representative Mitch Needelman (R-Melbourne) in the House and Senators Carey Baker (R-Eustis) and Bill Posey (R-Rockledge) in the Senate does the following:

1. Amends the Emergency Management Powers Act to prohibit the governor from ordering or authorizing the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.

2. Amends the Emergency Management Powers Act to prohibit any public official from ordering or authorizing the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.

The bill passed the House 116-0 and passed the Senate 40-0. Signed into law by Governor Bush on 6/7/06.
The link for the entire wording is here:
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&Tab=session&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=0285&Chamber=House&Year=2006&Title=%2D%3EBill%2520Info%3AH%25200285%2D%3ESession%25202006

H249, signed into law in 2005 is the "stand your ground law"
Here is a link for that
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&Submenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Billnum=0249&Year=2005

mbs357
June 11, 2006, 06:46 PM
Your location is the State of Terror?
I dunno man...I dunno...

beerslurpy
June 11, 2006, 07:57 PM
When asking for state-specific advice, please specify a location more specific than the planet upon which we live.

Hawkmoon
June 11, 2006, 10:22 PM
When asking for state-specific advice, please specify a location more specific than the planet upon which we live.
??? :confused:

Other than Florida and Lousiana, I don't know what other states have such laws, so I can hardly specify them.

I am not asking for advice about my state's laws. I know what they are, and I know they do not include a "no duty to retreat in public" provision, I know they do not include a "no confiscation during state of emergency" provision, and I know they do not include any immunity from civil liability in the event of a justified act of self-defense. What I am asking for is links to laws covering those things in other states, so that I can unabashedly plagiarize them when I approach my state's legislators to try to get the laws changed.

modifiedbrowning
June 11, 2006, 11:58 PM
Here's Florida (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0776/ch0776.htm)
Here's Montana (http://www.packing.org/state/montana/#statedeadlyforce_law)

Packing.org (http://www.packing.org/) has links to most state laws regarding deadly force.

Hawkmoon
June 12, 2006, 01:22 AM
I thought I was clear about what I need in my original post, but apparently I was not.

I am well acquainted with Packing.org -- well enough to know that it isn't updated reliably enough to have picked up on laws that may have been signed only a week or two ago. And if a law absolving an individual of civil liability for a justified shoot goes in the civil liability sections of a state's statutes, it won't show up at all in the deadly force stuff cited (maybe) by Packing.org. There would likewise be no particular reason why Packing.org should include the language of a no confiscation law in its citations.

I know that several states have been considering NEW laws covering stand your ground, no duty to retreat from a public place, carjacking, no confiscation during times of emergency, and relief from civil liability in the absence of a criminal conviction. What I am asking is for people in states that have enacted such laws to please give me links to the exact text, so that I can plagiarize them for use in my own state.

Al Norris
June 12, 2006, 08:59 AM
Hawkmoon, take a look at these. They passed here in Idaho. The URL is to the page which has the complete text of the law, which is what you wanted, I believe.

S1401 (http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/S1401.html) - Amends existing law relating to emergency powers to provide that no restrictions shall be imposed on lawful uses of firearms or ammunition during a disaster emergency.

S1441a (http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/S1441.html) - CIVIL IMMUNITY - SELF-DEFENSE - Adds to existing law relating to civil actions to provide immunity from civil liability for persons who use force in justifiable or otherwise permissible self-defense; to provide for the award of attorney's fees and other costs; and to define "law enforcement officer."

Hawkmoon
June 12, 2006, 01:00 PM
Thanks, Al. Exactly what I'm looking for.

Mannlicher
June 12, 2006, 01:47 PM
It looks like no one really read your question. However, I responded with links to the actual laws in Florida. Did you see those links?

modifiedbrowning
June 12, 2006, 03:05 PM
My Florida link is a direct link to Florida's state Senate website shows the text of the stand your ground law, is that not what you wanted?

stevelyn
June 12, 2006, 09:58 PM
Hawkmoon,

Alaska legislature passed our version of an "Emergency Confiscation" (HB 400) law and the governor signed it.
The beauty of our law over the laws of other states is that it actually has teeth and provides for criminal prosecution and penalties for govt agents violating it. There is no out or backdoor language.
:D

Check it out here: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=24&bill=HB400

The site takes a little getting used to to navigate.:o

SB200 is the "Stand Your Ground". It has also passed and since been sent to Gov. Murkowski. It can also be accessed by scrolling down the following page: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/passed_leg.asp?session=24&Sel=4

Hawkmoon
June 13, 2006, 12:41 AM
Stevelyn --

What am I missing? I just read SB200 in detail, several times, and it does NOT appear to eliminate the duty to retreat. Take a look at Section 11.81.335 (b) and tell me what you think it says. They've made some minor editorial revisions, but the sense of it still reads that if you can leave with safety to yourself and anyone you are trying to protect, you must attempt to do so before you are justified in using deadly force.

In the following section, they did kind of say that you don't have to retreat if you are being carjacked or if you are protecting a third party against an attempted carjacking, but that's a specific exception that applies ONLY to carjackings.

In general, though, it's good stuff. Thanks for the links.

Collier
June 13, 2006, 12:14 PM
Alabama recently signed "Castle Doctrine" bill SB 283 into law. This bill removes the "duty to retreat" and provides protection from civil litigation and prosecution in the case of a self defense situation.

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Releases.aspx?ID=7440

c_yeager
June 13, 2006, 12:54 PM
Im sort of split on these laws. On one hand they are there for a good reason. On the other, the very idea of passing a law prohibiting confiscation implies that the state had that right in the first place.

A lot of states have use-of-force laws that never included a duty to retreat in the first place. The civil-liability immunity idea is a good one though that I would like to see here as well.

munangokeewati
June 13, 2006, 02:32 PM
Louisiana No Emergency Gun Confiscations, just signed by Governor:
(a weak bill, without enforcement provisions)
http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=399339

Louisiana Castle Doctrine, just signed by Governor:
http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=397919

Louisiana Self-Defense Civil Liability Exemption, awaiting final passage by Senate (after reconciliation, I think):
http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=397919

Joey2
June 13, 2006, 11:43 PM
At what period in this countrys history has the government started honing in on confiscating our weapons? Could it be when they started enacting oppressive laws against the citizens of this country?

Every morning we wake up the government has been busy passing laws against us. Every law that they pass restricts us in some way.

Wiley
June 14, 2006, 02:03 AM
No duty to retreat, protections from civil suits was passed and signed in GA. Effective 7-1-06.

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/sum/sb396.htm

Hawkmoon
June 14, 2006, 10:20 AM
I really like the Georgia version. Short and sweet, gets right to the nitty gritty. And I love the last section, that invalidates anything else in the statutes which may be in conflict with this new provision.

Wiley
June 14, 2006, 06:11 PM
One of the things that is nice in the GA law is that there is absolutly no mention of any weapon of any sort. Made the anti's stamp around on their lower lips with their hobnail boots.

The part about invalidation anything that conflicts is fairly common and not just in GA.

Malum Prohibitum
June 14, 2006, 07:20 PM
But Georgia could not get a simple Katrina bill passed. Our Governor can still order seizure of weapons, unless, of course, you can prove to the seizing officer on the spot that the weapon was lawfully acquired!

Our bill failed, but Florida's passed both houses unanimously? :eek:

Malum Prohibitum
June 14, 2006, 07:21 PM
Hawkmoon - Georgia's Stand Your Ground bill wasn't all that tough, since Georgia has never had a duty to retreat in its entire history.

Hawkmoon
June 14, 2006, 07:23 PM
Hawkmoon - Georgia's Stand Your Ground bill wasn't all that tough, since Georgia has never had a duty to retreat in its entire history.
Well, how uncommonly ... civilized! :D

stevelyn
June 14, 2006, 10:00 PM
Hawkmoon,

I'll have to read the original statute, but I believe SB200 intent was expand on the already liberal law in which the castle doctrine was already strictly observed.

PILMAN
June 15, 2006, 12:00 AM
I'm curious about this stand your ground law as I live in Florida.


Scenario

Intruder enters my home, I fear for my life

I reach for gun, shoot intruder

I call police

What happens? Do I get arrested? Do I get my gun confiscated? Do I go to court? Please do explain in case this situation ever arose somehow.

Hawkmoon
June 15, 2006, 12:40 AM
Pilman, the links for Florida have already been given. But Florida already had a pretty decent "Castle Doctine" law that applied within your own residence. The new "stand your ground" law extended the protection to, essentially, any place that you have a legal right to be. Under the new law, if you are assaulted and in fear of death or serious bodily injury from the assault, you may now use deadly force to defend yourself without first having to attempt to retreat before you would be considered justified in using deadly force.

The old Florida laws did not require you to retreat within your own home.

Read the statutes. IANAL ... do not rely on my opinion of what your law says.

beerslurpy
June 15, 2006, 12:56 AM
Hawkmoon, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? I wasnt asking for my location, or the location of Florida- I know these things. I want you to specify your location more specifically than "Terra." How can we advise you how to proceed if you wont tell us what state you are in?

DunedinDragon
June 15, 2006, 06:17 AM
I'm curious about this stand your ground law as I live in Florida.

Scenario
Intruder enters my home, I fear for my life
I reach for gun, shoot intruder
I call police

What happens? Do I get arrested? Do I get my gun confiscated? Do I go to court? Please do explain in case this situation ever arose somehow.

The short answers. No, you do not get arrested, but there may be an investigation, and the law says nothing about whether or not they can confiscate your gun. Under the new law the burden of proof is on the police to show that you acted inappopriately. Specifically the new law allows for use of deadly force against someone that is committing a forcible felony. Burglary is a forcible felony, as is rape, as are several other infractions. The key test under the law is that you would be "reasonably in fear of great bodily harm or death." That of course requires the test of "reasonableness." But the law is specifically stating that reasonableness is assumed in the case of a forcible felony.

Do the police completely understand these new laws? Good question. From what I've seen, most self defense situations that have occurred in FL since the law was passed have not resulted in the arrest of the person that defended themselves. At most it may have resulted in an investigation and that's about all. I would assume if it's immediately obvious that you were being burglarized and there are no extenuating circumstances they'd pretty much decide you were within the law and leave you alone.

If I were you I would go out and buy a copy of Jon Gutmacher's "Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership" as he is a lawyer who has built his practice specifically around firearms and weapons law in Florida. No Florida gun owner should be without this book....period....

DunedinDragon
June 15, 2006, 07:12 AM
While no one likes the idea of retreating, it can be a helpful determinant of the necessity for self defense.

Yeah. If they shoot you in the back while you're running away then most likely you have the right to defend yourself..:rolleyes:

Hawkmoon
June 15, 2006, 12:37 PM
OK, don't back up, just say you did.
If you live in an enlightened state (defined for the limited purpose of this thread as a state not having a "duty to retreat" law) ... WHY BOTHER? If there is no duty to retreat, there is nothing to be gained by claiming that you retreated (or attempted to do so).

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