[silverlance]

I live in CA. Yup, we know, bad place.
But I don't have the means to move.

I want to buy a rifle. I can spend up to 1800. I won't be buying another gun for a long, long, time.

The choices are:

DS Arms CA-legal FAL.
This is a steel reciever FAL, Type I or II reciever. Pistol grip, flash hider, non-detachable magazine. I believe that one day it can be gunsmith converted to detachable.

SA M1A
Loaded version.
I may have a few mil-capacity mags in hiding, but I'm not sure.
Non-PGrip, detachable magazines. No flash hider.

Which is best?

There are those who say that any kind of CA-modified gun will be problematic.

Then there are those who argue that SA has been churning out loads of crap, and QC has gone down the drain.

[cslinger]

Without a doubt the M1A. You don't have to get a Springfield gun with a budget of 1800 you could probably swing one of the other builders.

I have nothing against the FAL but being you are in California, the M1A is the better choice IMHO.

[Erud]

I agree with cslinger. Normally I would say the DSA, but with the Kali-neutering, it's pretty worthless. Do you have a good bolt gun in .308 yet? I don't think they've outlawed those yet in CA...

Changed my mind - use your $1800 on a plane ticket out of CA - best investment you'll ever make! :neener:


Good luck,
Erud

[Balddragn]

I agree, being in Kali myself, can't use my preban AR-15 in military shoots anymore. rangemasters get jumpy even seeing me pull it out of it's case, so it sits way to long between shoots. Just picked up a Rem 700 in 308. Gonna learn the art of reaching out 600 yards+. good luck brother.

[dmckean44]

Even though I chose the M1A /w muzzle brake option I would hardly call the DSA FAL "worthless". I know I can load my SKS with stripper clips faster than I can change out magaines on my M1A.

[cslinger]

I know I can load my SKS with stripper clips faster than I can change out magaines on my M1A.

Yes but the SKS was designed expressly with stripper clips in mind. The M1A was designed to specifically use stripper clips if necessary.....the FAL was, well Frankenfaled to use stripper clips which makes it kind of slow and ungainly compared to rifles designed from the get go to use strippers.

Chris

[student]

M1 garand?

[Roadwild17]

The M1, I believe detachiable mags would be a lot more "usefull" than a flash-hidder

[Bwana John]

.....the FAL was, well Frankenfaled to use stripper clips

Actually one of the origional FN FAL Belguin designs has a dust cover that is made for charging from a stripper clip, and the Canadian C-1 Inch type version also can be charged with strippers.
I believe that one day it can be gunsmith converted to detachable
All it takes is an allen wrench.

That being said, I would still get a M-1A for California.

[cslinger]

Actually one of the origional FN FAL Belguin designs has a dust cover that is made for charging from a stripper clip, and the Canadian C-1 Inch type version also can be charged with strippers.

No kidding. How'd that work actually? Got any links to pictures/info? I am just curious.

Sorry for the scope creep.

Chris

[Seraph]

M1 garand?
What student said.:cool:

[silverlance]

you guys have a good point.

i'll go with the M1a then. who should i buy it from?
I wasn't aware that anyone other than SA made them. shows how much i know about m1s.

[Bwana John]

How'd that work actually?
There is a extra slot milled into the rear of the upper receiver that many metric pattern receivers do not have. Most origional Inch patterned receivers have this slot.
There is an "ear", or "ears" the stick off the back, bottom side of the dust cover, and the ear(s) mate with slot(s) in the upper receiver and keep the dust cover from walking forward under recoil. The stripper clip guides are much more substanstial than the "Tapco" aftermarket ones I have seen.
Real used Belgiun stripper dust-covers sell for ~$65, and if you are going to build a California legal FAL, I think it would be the way to go. Many metric patterned receivers available today however need to have the slot milled into the upper receiver to be able to use these dustcovers.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I think he M1 Garand or M1A would be the better choice. The FAL is an excellent rifle, but after you Cali-neuter it you'd be better off with somehting else.

[RobT2K]

With that budget, I would probably go with the M1A, but make sure you like the way it fits you. Take a look at both rifles, side by side if possible, and see which feels more natural to you.

Personally I went with the FAL, and I'm in CA also, but it was a difficult decision. Ultimately it came down to $$, and availability of good, reliable mags that were affordable ($7 vs $25+) The FAL also fit me slightly better, plus the option of going with a folding stock if I want to later and cut the barrel down a bit, maybe to 18". I also now how I am with cleaning, and I felt the meticulous level of cleaning that can be required with the M1A was a bit too much for me. I like the idea of the FAL's easily adjustable gas setting that can adapt to dirty ammo/rifle conditions.

Now I'm just working on getting some better iron sights for it.

[crazed_ss]

I'd go with the M1A definitely.

Fixed magazine ARs, AKs, and FALs = :barf:

[The Real Hawkeye]

The FAL is a slightly better design, but the M1A usually has a better trigger for accurate shooting at long distances. If you will scope it, go with the M1A. Otherwise, the FAL.

Wait, I just noticed that you said the California FAL has a fixed mag and the California M1A has a detachable mag. No question, go with the M1A.

[Mikee Loxxer]

The M1A is the clear choice. I own a DSA with a stripper clip top cover and trust me, they do not work. Keep in mind that I also shoot a Mosin Nagant with the new manufacture sheet metal strippers and I find them functional. Get the M1A you won't be disappointed.

[ScottsGT]

Take your $1800.00 budget, rent a Budget truck, and MOVE! Then you can buy whatever you want!

[armoredman]

AZ is nice and close; escape now, before we put up the Wall, and man the cactus throwers and coyote launchers.

[californiasushi]

1800 is a lot for a loaded springfield armory m1a. you can go a few routes. you can buy a new loaded for a few hundred less than that. you can get a standard for around 1200, shoot it a lot to get practice with the platform, then send it to a great m14 gunsmith like warbird's (http://warbirdscustomguns.com/) and have it rebuilt to a "supermatch" grade. this way will ultimately be more costly, but you'll be able to get more practice so you'll get the most use out of the great accuracy that warbird's (or another gunsmith) affords. or you can pick up a used national match for a couple hundred less than your limit, or a super match for around or a couple hundred more than your limit. this way will probably get you the most bang for your buck. you can try hanging out at the classifieds at:

http://www.m-14forum.com/
http://battlerifles.ambackforum.com/
http://www.warrifles.com/forums/

you could also get a garand and get it worked on as well, or look around for a used match grade one

[MechAg94]

M1A would be my choice. .308 stripper clip are not as easy to work with compared to SKS clips, IMHO.

[chopinbloc]

i'm gonna go with the crowd here. the m1a is the better choice of the two but with $1800 you should look at fulton armory or other companies which make m14 type rifles.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/

[Coronach]

Normally, the question of M1A vs FAL is met with considerable debate. However, you're in Kali? The M1A wins, hands down, especially since you won't be buying anything else for a while. The M1A is a good choice in any state; it is accurate, it is reliable, it fires a powerful cartridge, it has great ergos. In Kali it is a spectacular choice; the only concessions you make to the State are giving up a bayo lug (big deal) and exchanging a flash hider for a muzzle brake (not a terrible loss).

M1A, all the way. And I'm a FAL fan.

Mike

[silverlance]

Nearly everyone whose opinion I respect has told me the same thing: go the M1A/M14 route.

And as much as I like the FAL, I think I must agree. The FAL, unlike the SKS, which I have been erroneously mentally comparing it to, was not designed expressly to feed solely from clips. To introduce such a significantly different element into the engineering effectively removes the 50 so years of testing from the rifle choice.

So, M1A or M14 it is.

Now questions remain: M1A or M14? And from whom?

IIRC, the M1A is the newer, "better" version. Fulton Armory certainly seems to offer a very nice service m14 - but shouldn't I opt for an M1A? And are there any other makers other than Fulton and SA?

I have 1800 to spend, but I'd like to spend as little as possible. Beat up and used parts are fine by me. After all, I just spent $350 on a MNagant..

[californiasushi]

m1a's and m14's are the same thing, although technically a m14 is the military version with a selector switch. m1a is the name springfield armory trademarked for their version of the civilian m14's. that means other companies have to call their rifles m14's. a lot of people think fulton armory m14's are overpriced because the receivers don't turn out that well. people generally are very happy with both older and newer springfield receivers along with lrb receivers. however, lrb receivers are expensive in themselves, let alone parts and getting the rifle built. springfield m1a's are the way to go in terms of quality and price.

[silverlance]

I just got an offer for a new in cosmo norinco m14 for $950. I figure that I might be able to talk him down to $950 shipped if i offer to pay him cash.

what do you folks think?

yah, it's a chicom gun, but according to warbirds they're not bad recievers - just need some work if i ever want it to work with usgi bolts.

[californiasushi]

way too expensive

[ScottsGT]

WAY, way too much!! I passed on one locally for under $600 Get a Springfield 9222. Fully loaded, carbon steel barrel, walnut stock. I bought one used (Only 40 rds) a few years back for $1200 with a leather sling and one 20 rd. mag. I love the way it handles, looks and shoots. Damn.... Now I've got to take her out on a date here soon since you got me thinking about her again. :rolleyes:

Here's one for $1484:
http://www.gunandsport.com/products/rifles/rifle_index.html

[dmckean44]

If you add in a replacement GI bolt you're already higher than the cost of a new springfield.

[24kshooter]

Buy a Remington LTR in 308 and some good glass. Then you can work on shooting skills that will transfer over when you can move to the real world and can own a semiauto. If you just gotta have a semi - get a M1 Garrand.

[ScottsGT]

Buy a Remington LTR in 308 and some good glass. Then you can work on shooting skills that will transfer over when you can move to the real world and can own a semiauto. If you just gotta have a semi - get a M1 Garrand.

Gotta agree on one thing he says. Since I bought my Garand, the M1A stays at home more often.

[Coronach]

The difference between an M1A and an M14 are-

Well, okay, let's step back a bit.

The difference between an M1A and a real M14 is that the real-deal M14 is a military rifle, having either select-fire (full auto) capability, or once having select-fire capability (since disabled). This makes it a NFA weapon, subject to applicable laws and controls, and costing in the ballpark of the down payment on a nice house. They're spendy.

Anything you are looking to buy is probably going to be a civilian copy of the M14. Springfield Armory, already having shown the marketing savvy to trademark the Springfield name (despite having no relationship whatsoever to the defunct US armory), further demonstrated marketing sense by trademarking the name "M1A" (thus trading on the easily recognizable M1 moniker). An M1A is just SA's M14 copy.

Fulton Armory and many others also make their own M14 copies, each with their own name. The main differences are cost, quality of the receiver (forged vs cast), quality of the parts used (USGI vs non-USGI), quality of the barrel and quality of assembly. M14 afficionados can and will argue at great length about which is better, and which is more cost-effective, etc.

Myself? I have a Springfield Armoury National Match, and it shoots better than I do. Others gripe about inferior non-USGI parts, but either mine is an older SA (and theoretically equipped with a higher percentage of high-quality parts) or I'm just lucky. Nothing has broken yet. :)

Mike

[hso]

Spend a little time looking at these sites.

Makers -

Armscorp USA
Fulton Armory
Smith Enterprise, Inc.
Entreprise Arms
Springfield Armory, Inc.


Forums -

http://www.m-14forum.com/

http://battlerifles.ambackforum.com/viewforum.php?f=108&sid=3b1477d15270bfed7e3cf1e52e96317f

http://www.surplusrifle.com/m14m1a/index.asp

http://www.warrifles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1

[chopinbloc]

WAY, way too much!! I passed on one locally for under $600

really? was that before or after the chinese import ban? since the ban, i've only seen two polytech m-14s and both were close to $800. that was also a couple years ago. a new one in cosmo is well worth the $900 asking price in my book. many folks feel that polytechs are superior to SA plus, since they are no longer imported, they are eminently collectable. heck, even norinco ammo is highly sought after.

if you ever intend to mount a scope then you should probably go with any manufacturer BUT springfield. if not, then whatever suits you.

[ScottsGT]

It was back in December. Dick's pawn Shop in Myrtle Beach, and belonged to the owner. It was indirectly posted here on THR. That's how I found out about it. Cannot remember the exact price, but if my memory serves me correctly, it was dirt cheap, around or less than the $600 mark.

Ahaa! I found the post, and it was only $325, then he raised his price to $500 after talking with a member of THR:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169965&highlight=polytech+M14

[chopinbloc]

i am jack's complete and utter amazement. i'm guessing that since you passed on it you never got to see the condition.

[silverlance]

I don't think 900 is exactly way too expensive - when you consider my options, the chinese ban, and its acceptability in terms of quality by every respectable smith i know.

On the other hand, it's not exactly a bargain, either.

It helps greatly knowing how much these folks got the guns for - although 900 may be a "reasonable" price, I'm not willing to help someone profit that much off of a gun.

the $1200 from impactguns looks good. but i'd really like to avoid SA.

I'll go check out those makers that someone mentioned. More later.

[ScottsGT]

I wouldn't be too quick to shy away from Springfield Armory. They make a really nice M1A. True, ocassionally a few slip through the cracks that have to go back for corrections, (I've read about sights not being correct and POI is with windage cranked over to one side of the rear sights.) Unless you're looking for a high end competition rifle, which BTW will cost way more than the budget allows, Springfield is probably the only game in town at or around $1800. Besides, they have one hell of a good warranty.
Not sure what all the Fulton, LRB and others cost. I've been afraid to re$$$earch it :what: