Hypothetical ROA question.....


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Boom-stick
June 12, 2006, 07:37 AM
This is purely a hypothetical question.....

You've hit a deer with your car,
it's not dead
but it does need to be dispatched,
all you have available with your Ruger Old Army is a selection of smokeless powders. ( you've used up all your BP at the range;) )

What would be a safe load in this instance?


(PLEASE REFRAIN FROM "SMOKELESS POWDERS SHOULDN'T BE USED IN BP FIREARMS" COMMENTS AS THIS IS A PURELY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION)

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Manyirons
June 12, 2006, 08:44 AM
Didya lose yer TYRE tool old boy? Beat it ta death! :)

Teasin ya, really, yer problem is not that smokeless would be unsafe as BLOW UP GUN but unsafe as high pressure forces hammer back, cap ends up in forehead.

OR Pressure exceeds strength of tha threads in tha nipple with even sadder results.

Now then! Ifa guy had a Ruger, with Bushing and floatin firing pin with flatter face installed, and tha same guy used a specialty tube/nipple witha small pistol primer, tha very same guy MIGHT get away with a load of Unique, AA-5, or simular medium speed powders and LIGHT weight bullets.

Why? No means of crimpin into a catridge case and recoil inertia also pulls tha bullets foreward when ya fire.

So! Two additional problems, BLOOPERS from lacka crimpin&pressure build up/ignition and bullet pull from inertia.

Both of which have been addressed, why, i think tha BIG MANN at BigIron Rifled Barrel Works mighta done it!

Maybe, possibly. after all, its hypothetical right?

dwave
June 12, 2006, 08:56 AM
I wouldn't use it at all. I say you have two choices really:

1. Run over it again

2. Nail the deer with the gun a few times, but be careful not to mar the finish!

(Joking of course!)

Boom-stick
June 12, 2006, 09:55 AM
Looks like I'm gonna have to get one of those expensive nitro proofed split cylinders then, doesn't it.:mad:


Ps. does it change much if I swop deer for 'BG' and car for 'bat'??

Manyirons
June 12, 2006, 10:12 AM
Doesnt matter. Simple reality is, as it exists, tha Ruger AINT gonna work right with smokeless!

Now ya MIGHT hypothetically, ADD some smokeless to yer load, say 5-7 grains of whatever on top of tha Swiss 3F, SOMEBODY has done this bit of testin also, big hint, he owns BigIron.

But fer SERIOUS ya want that frame bushed fer tha Ruger floatin firin pin, and some other moddies ifin yer goin ta shoot yer hypothetical BG which i take it means Big Girl.

Though i DONT know whats ya got against them big girls! :)

And ya SERIOUSLY wants tha primer nipples or tubes, reliability and ignition. At tha very least, tha MUSKET CAP nipples sold by BigIron.

Boom-stick
June 12, 2006, 10:16 AM
It gonna have to be one of these then.

The conversion consists of a new Two part Stainless Steel cylinder. The front part has a forward chamber for the bullet with a reduced diameter for the Nitro powder charge. A small flash hole is drilled into the rear primer pocket, which takes a Shotgun Primer. Current production cylinders have longditudinal lightening flutes.

The rear section is keyed onto the front part by two dowel pins and has a firing pin for each cylinder and the ratchet cut into the rear face

http://www.westlakeengineering.com/mediac/400_0/media/P1010013.jpg

Manyirons
June 12, 2006, 10:46 AM
Showed this ta THA MANN he said; Ah, Westlake, good machining, poor design.

But DOES solve yer problem. Old story about John Lennon meetin Alice Cooper, on some song Cooper did. Lennon said; Paul would have done it better.

THA MANN does it better. But i AINT no John Lennon!

Boom-stick
June 12, 2006, 11:47 AM
I've actually used one of these nitro cylinders and it shoots very well indeed.
He seemed to have the rear section magnetised as well, for a firmer lock up??

There is another guy over here, I think he's called Bob Dunkley and he using what looks like an adapated (sleeved) conversion cylinder from Taylors & Co, a pal of mine has one of his on a Remy and as good as it is, when you hold it in your hand it doesn't have the same quality feel as the westlake one.

Manyirons
June 12, 2006, 12:22 PM
Magnatized would help ta keep tha end shake down, ya dont need two sections a cylinder flopppin back and forth on tha base pin! Otherwise youd want somethin ta lock them together. One way or another!

Asked tha MANN he cant see sleevin a Taylors unless ya jus aint got tha machinery/skill ta make a decent cylinder.

unspellable
June 12, 2006, 03:00 PM
A tire iron is the answer to the original question. Shoot it with anything here in Iowa and you're liable to have problems with the law. It will be viewed as poaching, never mind the deer is down to start with. If an LEO shpows up, he's entitled to shoot it. I think this is porbably true in most states.

jaxenro
June 12, 2006, 03:49 PM
This happened to a friend of mine. He called the staties in to "finish" the job as he had nothing in the truck with him. Deer down on the road, the local trooper (in Connecticut) pulled out his trusty 357, held it to the deers head, turned his own head away, pulled the trigger, and missed. He did get it on the second shot, though. Don't know what kind of pistol handling they teach in these police academies but that head turning trick is new to me. Anyone else ever come across that in their training?

My buddy then threw the deer in the truck, took it home and butchered it. He essentially broke it's neck, didn't harm any of the meat.

dwave
June 12, 2006, 05:08 PM
Ah, it's always tender at the point of impact anyways! :) That is a bad shot, must have turned his head because he thought blood would go all over the place.

RON in PA
June 12, 2006, 05:13 PM
Whip out your pocket knife and slit its throat.

There is a story that when Ruger designed the OA they tested it by filling a chamber with Bullseye under the ball and set it off. Didn't phase the gun. I believe they had to modify the nipple so that the cap would set off the smokeless powder. Story is in Wilson's book on Ruger.

unspellable
June 12, 2006, 07:55 PM
I'm not sure I believe that one. The overall strength of the Old Army might be up to it but you would blow the cap off the nipple and maybe take the hammer with it. Of course they might not care about that if fired from a rest.

The usual cap is not hot enough to set off smokeless with any reliability, although a pinch of black would get things going. I suppose you could whip up a special nipple that you could seat a regular primer inside of. But there's still nothing to make the primer stay in the nipple on firing. I can think of ways to do it, but how many mods are you going to make to prove the point? At some point it isn't an Old Army any more.

Boom-stick
June 13, 2006, 06:53 AM
I can think of ways to do it, but how many mods are you going to make to prove the point? At some point it isn't an Old Army any more.

That may be, but a ROA is UK legal whilst 'normal' handguns aren't and when funds allow, I'll be investing in a ROA with a nitro proofed split cylinder, something I can stoke up to magnum(ish) fps and have it scoped:cool:



The deer story, was just my way of asking about loading a ROA with smokless powders, I drive a big 4x4 and a seriously doubt a deer (or anything else for that matter) would survive a hit.

The British Police recommended dispatching a wounded deer by either slitting it's throat or hitting it in the head with a hammer???

Boom-stick
June 13, 2006, 07:06 AM
Whip out your pocket knife and slit its throat


Didn't ya know, ya can't carry a blade in the UK:evil:

Manyirons
June 13, 2006, 08:48 AM
Cricket bat? :)

unspellable
June 13, 2006, 09:17 AM
I've been hearing of cap & ball mods in the UK for smokeless. Interesting, but a bit expensive to do without the incentive you guys have with the restrictive laws. But still, a cylinder full of Bullseye would blow d**n near anything apart.

Boom-stick
June 13, 2006, 10:15 AM
I've been hearing of cap & ball mods in the UK for smokeless

This was done mainly for the lack of BP ranges in the UK.
Most pistol shooting was done on indoor ranges and when we lost our handguns, lever action carbines took their place, but the smokeless conversions are cleaner to use, easier to clean up after wards and you don't have to jump through hoops to hold an explosive certificate for black powder.

Mine is waiting to be sent to me as soon as I install a secure locking box to hold the BP, but I havn't had time to make one yet and I'm not about to pay 90 ($170) for it.

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