Most Accurate .45 ACP Revolver?


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Ops Officer
June 13, 2006, 09:51 PM
After a 35-year break, I find myself returning to revolvers. During the past 35 years, I've used an auto-loader, either .45 ACP or 9mm. Recently, I purchased a S&W 642 for my wife, which reminded me of the very first handgun I was issued, a Det. Spl., which was not exactly a fun gun. Oddly enough, the OSI gifted me an S&W Model 19 when I served as an Army counterinsurgency officer in Vietnam. Now that was a fun gun. But I had to return to Old Reliable, the 1911 .45 ACP. In 1985, my agency switched to the 9mm. First, I had a Beretta, then I was issued the SIG P228, which is a fine 9mm. But it is still a 9mm. My personal handguns are auto-loaders in .45 ACP. I won't get away from the .45 ACP, but I'm drawn to a revolver. I prefer S&W, but I am unfamiliar with what's available for .45 ACP as my first revolver. I need to see what you wheel-gunners consider to be the most accurate, reliable .45 ACP revolver. If your choice is a discontinued model, please give me an idea what I should expect to pay for a good-to-excellent used one. Shower the opinions, but include the reason. Thanks.

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Ala Dan
June 13, 2006, 10:05 PM
Greeting's Sir-

First, many thanks for your service to our great country.

Now on to your question. I reck'on the Smith N' Wesson model 25 is 'bout
good as it gets in a .45 ACP revolver. Its also one that has eluded me for
many years. It has excellent adjustable target sights, is built on the famed
S&W N-frame, with target trigger and hammer. This weapon has long since
been discontinued; but can still be found in the hands of individuals. Expect
too pay somewhere between $525-600 for one LNIB~!:uhoh: :D

Gordon
June 13, 2006, 10:23 PM
"the OSI gifted me an S&W Model 19 when I served as an Army counterinsurgency officer in Vietnam. "

Wow what a long career! I thought the OSI (or are you an AirForce officer?)was replaced by the CIA in the 50's! I was a Staff Sgt. 97B (counterintelligence agent) in Nam in 1969 and 70 for my 2nd tour.I was a linguist E-5 the 67- 68 tour.Both times got a 1911a1. I returned as an intelligence officer in 1971 . I was issued a S&W model 10 .38 snub as an officer in plain clothes. When I returned to Arlington Hall in 1972it was changed to a S&W 12 .38 which certainly helped in civvies.
I never saw an issued Model 19 until I was issued one in 1975 when I joined the DEA. The model 25 was certainly the most accurate .45acp unless you have a Douglas Bull barreled Colt New Service as I do!:)

P95Carry
June 14, 2006, 12:05 AM
Ops - I would add to Dan's comment and say the M25 Smith is about the ideal. I have a 625-6 - unfortunately a newer gun and it has the dreaded lock but that aside - lovely shooter and well accurate for me. So - not discontinued but - I'd love to find an earlier one.

It uses of course full or half moon clips which if plentiful make for some quick reloads. :) Someone recently found a nice 3" - forget who and what thread it was on right now.

Oh and welcome from me BTW :)


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/m625-6-01_s.jpg

Gordon
June 14, 2006, 01:37 AM
Here's a link to the thread on my new service. Thank Big G for the blow up of my thumbnail! Over the years I found a moderate charge of unique under a 200 cast Heneley and Gibbs bullet in Auto Rim cases to be the ticket for accuracy; one ragged hole at 15 yards!

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=44268&highlight=Engraved+service

mrmeval
June 14, 2006, 02:47 AM
It's not the most accurate but it's classy. I have a Webley Mark VI that was cut to allow .45ACP with moon clips.

The barrel is I think .455 and the .45 is .451 but the revolver feels better than a 1911 when I shoot it. It needs some site work as it shoots about a foot to the left and groups about 4+ inches at 25 yards. I've not had a chance to shoot it but once. :fire:

I like it well enough that I will eventually load custom rounds for it. :D

This is a gallery of thumbnails of photos.
http://mrmeval.is-a-geek.net/~jcaldwel/images/webley/images.html

It's the pistol Indiana Jones had in the third Raiders movie.

Ops Officer
June 14, 2006, 06:12 AM
"...Wow what a long career! I thought the OSI (or are you an AirForce officer?)was replaced by the CIA in the 50's! I was a Staff Sgt. 97B (counterintelligence agent) in Nam in 1969 and 70 for my 2nd tour.I was a linguist E-5 the 67- 68 tour.Both times got a 1911a1. I returned as an intelligence officer in 1971 . I was issued a S&W model 10 .38 snub as an officer in plain clothes. When I returned to Arlington Hall in 1972it was changed to a S&W 12 .38 which certainly helped in civvies."

Gordon, I have had a long career. In 1969 & 1970 I was the 97B equivalent as an Army officer and later retired from the Army in 1985. I ran ops out of Cu Chi and later Tay Ninh. The Office of Special Investigations (OSI) at Ton Son Nhut AFB gave me a Model 19 as a reward for exploiting some of its intelligence. I took a couple of OSI agents with me to the field. A good time was had by all. They didn't get out much. :) I have no idea where those guys got that gun, since they didn't carry it. I didn't carry it to the field much. That wheel gun was impressive in town and other areas if I wasn't likely to get too dirty. Arlington Hall? The agency that was there has been my employer since I retired from the Army. The assets there moved to Bolling AFB in 1984 when a spanking new building was created. A Relatively short time later, Arlington Hall was torn down and given to the locals as was Cameron Station.

Appreciate the feedback about .45 ACP wheelies. The 25 and 625 seem to be the wheelgun of choice. It won't be easy to find a 25, though. I see there is a 625JM. What's the big deal functionally with the JM?

moph759fl
June 14, 2006, 07:42 AM
My Taurus 4" SS Tracker .45 ACP is very easy to shoot due to its ported barrel and "Gripper" grips which in turn makes it as accurate as I can be, but with a fixed 4" barrel my opinion is thats its hands down more accurate than any Semi-Auto.

I'm sold on the ease of using the "Stellar Clips" which also make great speed loaders. This revolver will function with or without the clips, but reloads are faster w/clips.

The wide variety of .45 ACP is another plus for a Revolver because this Taurus will eat any and all .45 ACP, can't say that about most 45 Semi-Autos.

Here in SW Florida its even comfortable to conceal carry IWB & SOB while wearing shorts and untucked T-Shirt.

Not sure about what to expect on price, don't know if Taurus still produces them, just check online "gunbroker.com" etc. to get a feel for price then hit your local gun shows or have your local FFL dealer track down one.

I've always been a S&W/Colt shooter, but for the price & quality and warranty Taurus is hard to beat. Good Luck

Stainz
June 14, 2006, 07:59 AM
I have had a 625JM since 2/05 - and a previous 4" 625-8 from 9/02-6/04. Believe me, they are fine revolvers, despite possessing the dreaded 'Lock'. The JM variant has a spring loaded front sight, actually a gold beaded Patridge, for quick tool-less changes (Standard 625's are pinned.). It also has the 'Jerry Miculek' wood stocks, which really grow on you - especially for a fast grab. The grooved trigger means something to some, but mine - and a friend's - were quickly eased. The hammer and trigger are hard-chromed - and the ejector star's edges are eased, making reloads of RN bullets faster. These changes come at a $28 MSRP premium over a standard rubber-gripped 4" or 5" 625.

A new S&W will also have a lifetime warranty, a great advantage. The 625's are big-bore N-frames that use easily acquired frugal ammo - great combo.

Stainz

Jim Watson
June 14, 2006, 09:31 AM
There is another Miculeck 625 with more differences, the cylinder is shorter to just hold .45 ACP and the underlug is kind of sculpted which brings weight down to somewhere between the standard 625 and the Mountain Gun. Friend of mine has one and it is a fast, handy gun for IDPA. I can't tell any difference in slow fire even though the short cylinder jump is theoretically superior.

Master Blaster
June 14, 2006, 10:07 AM
Monday I went out to the ranage with my most accurate .45 acp revolver, Its a ruger blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel, it has two cylinders that came with it a .45acp, and a .45 Colt. I have been surprised by this gun which I purchased about 6 months ago for $325 new in the box, it was previously owned but apparently never fired by the first owner, and is 2004 production.

I cut off one leg of the trigger return spring which dropped the pull weight of the SA only trigger to 2.5 lbs from the 6 lbs it left the factory with. I added a set of Hogue pearlite cowboy grips.

I can shoot it more acurately than any other .45 I own (several 1911s, and a taurus tracker which is also an excellent revolver), Monday I shot 4 consecutive 50 foot slow fire bullseye targets, 10 shots each and scored over 90 on each.

Deanimator
June 14, 2006, 10:28 AM
1. You can't beat an S&W Model 25-2. I alternate between one of those and a K-38 for our local DA revolver league. The only caveat is the REQUIREMENT to use Federal primers if you reload. BTW - It seems to LOVE the cheap Winchester Value Pack 230gr. ball that Walmart sells.

2. As far as Zoomies and Model 19s go, I recall reading a book on the USAF, when I was in grade school in the '60s, showing the guards at Cheyenne Mountain carrying 4" Model 19s. When I was in ROTC in the '70s and on active duty in the '80s, female Army MPs who couldn't handle the M1911A1 were issued .38 Special Ruger Police Service Sixes.

Tom C.
June 14, 2006, 12:53 PM
Among the older revolvers, the Model 25-2 is king. Mine has a 5” barrel that I consider about ideal. Among the current production revolvers, I prefer the 625-8JM. I like the removable front sight. I can live with the grooved trigger, and I changed out the grips. I don’t pay attention to the lock and it doesn’t pay attention to me.

JoeHatley
June 14, 2006, 12:58 PM
All my model 25's and 625's are good shooters, but the V-comp is the best.

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/625_Vcomp_l.jpg

Hard to find, but worth the effort.

Good Luck...

Joe

S&WIowegan
June 14, 2006, 01:50 PM
The 625 in 4" configuration is readily available new currently, either as a JM or standard. These guns are amazingly accurate. Some 3"ers have been made in the past and turn up occasionally. I have one customized as a carry gun. Model 25s are mostly found in 6" barrel length although a number of them were customized into short barrel PD weapons.

It all boils down to the use you intend. For target shooting, the 6" 25-2 is king. For PD, the 4" 625s are the ticket and they also are legal for IDPA ESR class.

Bob.

Moonclips
June 14, 2006, 02:51 PM
Just get a S&W 625 5" and call it a day.

http://fernando.smugmug.com/photos/46837211-M.jpg

KINGMAX
June 14, 2006, 03:03 PM
I am a 45 person. :) Have never :scrutiny: looked at a revolver for a forty-five. I have done the COLT 1911, RUGER P90, and now a GLOCK 21. Nice serviceable weapons, but not much on looks. :eek: Those pic's are proof positive that looks :uhoh: are still alive with the forty-five. :cool:

Thanks for those nice one's.

Remember: Take a girl shooting - she will love you for it.

HankB
June 14, 2006, 03:07 PM
For sheer accuracy . . . didn't Freedom Arms make up some .454 revolvers with an extra, fitted, .45 ACP cylinder?

Considering the workmanship I've seem in the FA guns, these may well be the most accurate .45 ACP revolvers going.

(Personally, though, my S&W M25 with its 6 1/2 " barrel is pretty doggoned accurate, too.)

dracphelan
June 14, 2006, 03:44 PM
I love my Taurus Tracker 6" 45. One of the best parts is you don't have to use the stellar clip with it. You can actually just load the rounds directly in the chambers. I bought mine from CDNN for $299+tax+shipping+transfer fee. It still came out to less than $350.

Frandy
June 14, 2006, 04:37 PM
Why, mine is, of course. And it's for sale:
(Yes, a shameless promotion!)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=205236

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=41067&stc=1&d=1150134707

AH-1
June 15, 2006, 07:42 PM
my 25-2 and it is NOT forsale :) .
http://www.hunt101.com/img/358950.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=358950&c=500&z=1)

Deer Hunter
June 15, 2006, 08:42 PM
Smith and Wesson model 625.

Get one, just do it. I did, and I never looked back :)

8ring
June 16, 2006, 01:32 AM
SW 625-3, Model of 1989, 5" full lug barrel. Excellent revo and far more accurate than I am.

Chris

MidnightRambler
June 16, 2006, 09:55 AM
I just found and purchased a mint condition 29-2 44 magnum. After I bought it however, I wondered if I should have gone the .45acp route in a revolver instead. I only shoot 44 specials in the 29, and 45 ammo is much easier to find than 44 special.

_N4Z_
June 16, 2006, 10:25 AM
most accurate out of the box would have to be the Freedom Arms. those guys don't let anything leave the factory until it makes tack driver status.

of course you will pay a premium for that craftsmanship too.

Ops Officer
July 30, 2006, 11:49 AM
About a month and a half have passed since I started this topic and I've resumed my search for a .45ACP revolver. A nice buy on a SIG 245 distracted me and sucked up my gun budget for July as well as a couple of flyfishing trips. Most posters to this and other threads extolled the features of the S&W 625, mostly the Jerry Mikulek model. Yes, the Model 25 popped up, but that model seems to be a rarity. As much as I would like to get a pre-lawyer lock S&W .45ACP, I doubt if I'll see one anytime soon. So, there are two current production Model 625s, one a regular 625JM and the Performance Center 625 Jerry Mikulek. I looked carefully at both descriptions on the S&W website. The differences are not all that apparent. Posts in the archives in this forum and the S&W forum revealed more differences, but I'm not sure I grasped all the distinctions. The Performance Center 625 apparently uses no MIM parts, which many members believe to be quite important. (However, I didn't see reported failures of MIM parts.) The PF 625 might have a forged trigger; the 625JM probably has a hollow MIM trigger. Would the PF 625 have better treatment of the trigger, e. g. smoothed trigger action? The PF 625 has adjustable sights; the 625JM does not. But both use a gold bead front sight. Both are stainless, but the PF 625 is described as having a satin stainless finish and the 625JM is described as having a stainless bead blast finish (difference?). The grips seem similar. The PF 625 advertises a Hogue combat laminate and the 625JM has wood. I don't see any real difference in these grips other than appearance.

So, what differences do you see between these two 625s? What may help with your comments is that I intend to use this handgun at the range, home defense, and possibly competition. Thank you for your valuable help.

Bill B.
July 30, 2006, 10:04 PM
I don't see how it could get much better that the S&W 625. I have both a 625 MG and a newer 625 with the dreaded lock. :uhoh: :D I prefer the latter because the newer version comes with the cylinder chamfered for moon clips. Loading them is a snap and it isn't on the older 625 MG. Both gun are dead accurate and the action is the same so no difference otherwise. :)

wundudnee
July 31, 2006, 01:23 AM
I think you will be well served with any of the 625 or 25 models. Personally I prefer blue and wood. A couple of years ago I was in a similiar position of wanting a .45 revolver. I had made up my mind on a model 25. I was at a small local gunshow when I ran across this Pre 26 ".45 cal. of 1950". It was all correct with presentation case for $500.00. I'm very happy with this.:)
http://www.fototime.com/{218FB845-A174-46BA-B065-546E314A8C81}/picture.JPG
You just can't beat a S&W N frame revolver.
http://www.fototime.com/{85357ADC-9218-4F3C-9FE1-6FC6C1C2A11B}/picture.JPG

Ops Officer
July 31, 2006, 06:52 AM
Bill B., the 625, either the PC 625 or the 625JM, in a 4" barrel seems to be what is available now from S&W in a new gun. Older guns may take awhile for me to find. Most gun shops in my neck of the woods are filled with new and used autoloaders. But I check with the classifieds. As I stated in my updated post, I intend to use it for range, home defense, and possibly competition. Though most of my autoloaders are reliable, I believe I want a revolver for the nightstand. (I purchased a 642 with a CTC laser grip for my wife, which is her nightstand gun when I am away from the house. She may convert to the .45ACP one of these days.)

Wundudnee, that is a gorgeous collection of N frames. Your photography is professional quality, esp. the way you controlled the light. Yes, I'll take a blued 25 in a heartbeat if I see one for sale.

As far as the new 625s go, do you know of any differences between the PC 625 and the 625JM other than what I cited?

Stainz
July 31, 2006, 08:04 AM
The PC shop variant has the same front and rear sight as the 625JM. They have the same 'finish'. The PC shop variant's most obvious differences are the tapered partial lug, the hammer and trigger, and the 'look' of the stock. The hammer and trigger on the PC version may be case-hardened, but they are more likely 'punched' from sheet stock than truly forged. The JM's MIM parts are hardchromed - and MIM parts are as strong or stronger and certainly more uniform from part to part (ie, no 'fitting'). I like the look of the nicely figured wood on my JM better than the Miculek laminates I have seen.

The action of the PC shop variant is probably slicker than the JM, as the aforementioned hammer and trigger required some hane fitting at the very least. Trigger effort will be similar, as S&W bows to a different 'pc', political correctness, in that they want to insure that their firearms will pop anyone's caps. The 625 with moonclipped ammo has an inherent slop, the 'insurance' is important. I wouldn't reduce the spring rate without relegating it to Federal-only primers - which are all I use. The average non-reloader should leave the spring stock. A break-in ritual with the JM will slick it up - and without sending it back to S&W.

So, you have four choices: standard 4" & 5" 625 (SKU 160935 & 160927 - MSRP $858), 625JM (SKU 160936 MSRP $887), and PC 625JM (SKU 170161 MSRP ? - over $1k). Mine was the 625JM - and I really like it!

Stainz

ugaarguy
July 31, 2006, 08:17 AM
Stainz, this thread has got me looking at S&W 625s. Do you, or does anyone else, know if you can use 45 Auto Rim, or moon clipped 45 ACP in the 625 Mountain Guns? I assume it would work, but want to make sure beforehand. A 625 MG would be very versatile if so.

Stainz
July 31, 2006, 08:29 AM
Yes, all of the .45 ACP S&W's, the 625MG included, will take moonclipped ACP's and .45 Auto Rims. The HKS 25 speedloader is made for the thick-rimmed AR's. The problem with the 625MG in .45 ACP is the availability - they didn't make many. More common in the 625MG format is the .45 Colt version - of which I have two. They are really nice... but, oddly, I load my .45 AR's for that 625JM hotter than I do the .45 Colts for my 625MG's.

Stainz

ugaarguy
July 31, 2006, 08:32 AM
Wow, I didn't know they made 625MGs in 45 ACP. I thought the 625 MGs were all in 45 LC. So, the 45 AR works in the 45 LC 625s, does moon clipped 45 ACP also work in them? Thanks for the info and quick reply Stainz.

Stainz
July 31, 2006, 10:01 AM
Please, reread my posts. Let me clarify - there are two 625MG's - one in .45 Colt ONLY and, a much more rare variant, one in .45 ACP & AR. All S&W .45 ACP's; 1917's, 25's , and 625's, will take moonclipped ACP's or single AR's. The .45 Colt chambered revolvers' cylinders can be milled by a really good gunsmith to accept moonclipped ACP's. They will not have the proper rim clearance - or, possibly, not even the correct headspace for Auto Rims. Assume that it must be an ACP designed/stated 25 or 625 to use AR's.

A friend had a Taurus 5-shot 4" .45 ACP revolver, which uses their proprietary 5-shot 'Stellar clips'. They do not have enough clearance when the cylinder is closed for the thick rimmed AR's to fit - and are not to be used with them. The friend's had so much slop, they fit! Generally, .45 Auto Rims only fit S&W .45 ACP revolvers. The HKS 25 speedloader is designed for said use, although .45 Colts will also fit, albeit loosely.

Stainz

PS I know the 625MG in .45 ACP exists - although I have yet to see one in person!

Sistema1927
July 31, 2006, 10:24 AM
I am surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the S&W 22-4. I know that the original poster wanted the "most accurate", and maybe that rules out fixed sights, but the 22-4 is the classic "combat revolver". Square butt blued N-Frame, 4" barrel, fixed sights, in .45 ACP/.45 AR. Besides, mine shoots big ragged holes out of the centers of the targets, so it is accurate enough.

Get rid of the "Thunder Ranch" grips, and except for the "lawyer lock" it has all of the charm of the guns of yesterday.

JoeHatley
July 31, 2006, 12:52 PM
I thought the 625 MGs were all in 45 LC.

Stainz has it right...

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/625mg_45acp_l.jpg
http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/625mg_45lc_l.jpg

Fun shooters...

Joe

ugaarguy
July 31, 2006, 01:27 PM
The .45 Colt chambered revolvers' cylinders can be milled by a really good gunsmith to accept moonclipped ACP's. They will not have the proper rim clearance - or, possibly, not even the correct headspace for Auto Rims.

Now that I'm home after a 12 hour night shift and can look at my Speer reloading manual I see how much thicker the AR rim is when compared to the LC rims. Obviously ARs will work in moon clip ACP guns since thats what they were designed to do. The rim headspace between the LC and AR is now quite apparent to me. I may look into what it cost to have a 45 LC cylinder machined to take moon clipped 45 ACP. I think a mountain gun with 45 LC in the cylinder for four legged predators, and the ability to speed reload with full moon clipped 45 ACP if needed for two legged predators would make a nice woods gun set up.

Thanks for all the info guys, and sorry for the thread hijack Ops Officer.

Ops Officer
August 1, 2006, 07:29 AM
ugaarguy, that's OK. I am getting quite an education.

Stainz, thanks for spelling out the differences between the PC 625 and the 625JM. If I got a 625JM, what real benefit would there be to have the S&W custom shop work on the action? You seem satisfied with the trigger action on your 625JM. I don't see any other big difference between the PC625 and 625JM.

This discussion is proving quite helpful in my selection. Of course, availability, even for a new gun, might prove a challenge.

ugaarguy
August 1, 2006, 07:45 AM
Of course, availability, even for a new gun, might prove a challenge.

Are you still morking for a Military/LE/Intel type agency as a civillian now? If so give S&W a call. They'll probably offer you special pricing on a new pistol thru their Military/LE sales division, even if its personal use, as this one will be. If not most of the police supply type dealers will give retired military a discount, and many regular ole FFL dealers do the same. If you can't go thru S&W Mil/LE sales via your local dealer, we'll set you up with links to some dealer/distributors who will ship to your local FFL. Overall getting a new gun that your dealer doesn't have in stock should be easy, so don't stress about availability.

Stainz
August 1, 2006, 08:16 AM
Before I sent a new S&W back for an action job, I'd try a break-in regimine - and consider the following. Lighter hammer springs are great for lightening your DA pull, but they aggravate an existing problem with moonclipped rounds. Everything seems to affect the reliability - the moonclips uniformity and flatness, cleanliness under the extractor star, the cylinder play, etc. Keeping the OEM hammer spring at least keeps that variable fixed. Of course, if you can use only the softer Federal primers, you can use a lower power spring.

You can smooth the action of a S&W yourself by simply some break-in dry firing. The MIM parts are very consistent, so proper break-in, which is really what a 'basic action job' would replicate, can be effected easily, often with just 1,000-1,200 dry fires. The zeroth step is to lock up your ammo in another part of the house. The first step is to clean any metal residue, grit, dirt, etc, from the action - an aerosol, like RemOil, can be used. Take off the grips/stock, release the cylinder - and flood into every opening you can - trigger, hammer, pawl/hand, cylinder stop, etc. Wrap in paper towels and shake - repeat until you see no residue. Replace the grips and commence dry-firing, changing hands frequently. Repeat the cleaning regimine - and before you replace the grips/stock, check the strain screw, on the lower front side of the gripframe - it should be tight (CW) - check this whenever you can. You can ease a Ruger Redhawk/SRH/GP-100 action the same way. Of course, some folks claim that your finger is stronger after the work - but believe me, it works.

Have your local S&W 'pusher' (They are 'habit forming'!) check the prices on both - he may offer you a good price. The PC JM gun may just be a Camfour distributor goodie, but the 625 JM will be available from any S&W distributor. Don't let him stick you - the 625JM really only lists for $29 more than a 'regular' 625 4" or 5". Check Brownell's for metal moonclips - and their nutdriver-style 'de-mooner', you'll need them, too. Keep us apprised.

Stainz

jjohnson
August 1, 2006, 09:41 AM
Mine was made in '90, I think, when they made a bunch of them... before they went bonehead on us and put in those stupid locks. (oh, no, let's not get started THERE). Anyhow, she shoots like a dream and will be one of the very last to go if I ever have to part with my firearms. Ever shoot a dragonfly with a .45? Did it. Being able to do THAT sort of thing makes you fond of your revolver.... :what:

There's something elegant about a revolver in .45ACP, not the least of which is shooting with a big jacket pocket full of moon clip ammo and being able to hit targets with authority without that annoying BOOM that 44 mags generate. You could do better maybe with somebody's custom work, but out of the box, the 625 with the 5" barrel is a really nice sidearm. :evil:

Geno
August 1, 2006, 10:34 AM
I think I would look to a Freedom Arms Premier Grade. I had one and it was extraordinarily accurate! I would probably purchase the .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders if I still owned it and were looking to have a 45 revolver. Someone told me once, but I have not confirmed it, that Ruger makes one of the single actions in 45 Colt and 45 ACP. Again, unconfirmed. All the same, I would go with Freedom Arms.

Doc2005

10X
August 1, 2006, 12:41 PM
The S&W 25-2 is a fine 45 ACP revolver. Shoots a ragged hole with SWC bullets, recoil is soft, trigger is execellent. After it is a targer revolver.

Ops Officer
August 1, 2006, 10:39 PM
usaarguy quote, "Are you still morking for a Military/LE/Intel type agency as a civillian now? If so give S&W a call." Yes, I am, but probably on the tail end of my career. I have a total of over 42 years of federal service, which includes over 23 years of US Army service. 9/11 interrupted my plan to be retired by now. My dealer has my LEO/intel cert on file and checked with S&W. S&W only offers the regular 625 and not the 625JM for its program. PM or email me if you have a list. I use a couple of FFLs in my area I am pleased with. My dealer is still working on the PC625, but it looks doubtful. Thanks.

Stainz, your procedure for smoothing out the action is absolutely slick (no pun intended.) I'll try that on the 642 I purchased for my wife. That little puppy is still stiff after a lot of dry-firing she and I do. I am grateful you shared this idea. Reliability is a big deal with me. I've gone through quite a drill with a SIG Revolution 1911 to have perform w/o an FTF. The damn gun is very, very accurate, but it is fitted so tightly that failures were bound to happen. I polished the throat and ramp, which improved things. More range time should take of the problem. I believe when manufacturers took the rattle out of the 1911 to increase the accuracy and bling, reliability suffered. Funny, I never had a single failure with my issue SIG 228.

10X, I haven't ignored the 25-2. I would buy that one as well if the opportunity arises just for paper-punching in addition to a 625JM.

I see I may have missed an opportunity to purchase a 625JM on the classified from a forum member while I've been sorting out all this. It looked like a good buy.

Again, I appreciate all of the help.

Smith357
August 2, 2006, 08:31 PM
The most accurate I have fired is this S&W 25 Target Model
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43034&stc=1&d=1154561422

Ops Officer
August 3, 2006, 12:04 AM
That is quite a respectful group. What are the particulars, e.g., range, time, freehand vs. rest, etc.? And a 25 again. Pardon my ignorance, but would that be a 6 1/2" barrel?

Smith357
August 3, 2006, 07:21 PM
That is a 12 shot group fired SA from a modified Weaver stance at 25 feet. It was not the best looking group of the day nor the worst, I though the best one would look like a staged shot so I choose one with a few fliers for the photo.

The gun is a bone stock S&W M25-2 with target hammer trigger and grips. This gun also has put a few trophys on my shelf.

Ops Officer
August 3, 2006, 07:21 PM
Smith357, that isn't just respectful. That is impressive. Yeah, I noticed the fliers, which happens, but the group is very impressive. What sights are you using? Nice pic.

All: Here's a thought, which I also just posted on the S&W website. I could get a regular 625 at an LEO discount and then let S&W do custom work on the internals. It would not have the bling of a 625JM, but it might be a better shooter. I realize the 625JM has a gold bead sight, but I've never used one. I could put any sight I wanted on it to include an FO. My thinking also is that a standard 625 with the LEO discount, re-worked, might cost about the same as a 625JM. What do you think?

Smith357
August 3, 2006, 07:36 PM
Stock S&W patridge front, and adjustable rear sights, The gun has no modifications and is just the way it came from the factory except for a few minor nicks and dings.

ugaarguy
August 3, 2006, 10:41 PM
Ops Officer, how much money are you saving with the LE discount? The nice thing with the JM is the spring loaded sight ramp that allows you to easily pop in new sight blades. If you haven't used a gold bead sight I'd try it so you can find out what you're missing. Other than that any gunsmith who's good with S&Ws can easily slick up the action for you. I'd ask the smiths at your local shop and see if the cost savings is enough to pay for the action job, and the front sight work if you want that done too. If you just want the action tuned up it shouldn't be that expensive.

.45man
August 3, 2006, 11:22 PM
Well.....it still counts as a .45 ACP revolver....when the .45 ACP cylinder is installed. I shoot it from 50 yards and the best I can do is a solid 1.5 inches, with 5.0 grains of Bullseye and a 185gr JHP Nosler bullet.

.454 Casull w/ .45 ACP, and .45 Colt Cylinders (http://home.comcast.net/~45man/misc_images/454Casull.jpeg)

Ops Officer
August 4, 2006, 06:37 AM
ugaarguy, I'll know more about that when the figures roll in a couple of days. Then, I'll compare the cost of a standard 625, re-worked, and the cost of a 625JM. The 625 would be re-worked before it left S&W to save shipping costs. If it there is no real advantage, I won't do it.

Ops Officer
August 4, 2006, 06:42 AM
ugaarguy, I'll know more about that when the figures roll in a couple of days. Then, I'll compare the cost of a standard 625, re-worked, and the cost of a 625JM. The 625 would be re-worked before it left S&W to save shipping costs. If it there is no real advantage, I won't do it.

BluesBear
August 4, 2006, 08:22 AM
I too think that a S&W 25-2 can't be beat.

However if you ever run across a Colt New Service, or a New Service Target in .45 ACP grab it.
You'll never be sorry and you'll have a gun different from everyone else on the block.

Ops Officer
August 5, 2006, 05:37 PM
After a chat with a S&W rep over the phone earlier this week, I believe I may hold out for a PC 625 Jerry Mikulek. I may have a long search for a new or used PC 625. Why? Well, the PC 625 is a hand-fitted gun and tuned. The other two models are not. The PC 625 has forged parts. The other two 625s have MIM parts. There is just not that much stock in MIM parts for a 'smith to do much with. Yes, the MIM parts fit more precisely than forged parts without tuning. Now I'll see how much patience I have.

Meawhile, I just might purchase a 25-2 for the range if I see one available in excellent condition.

JoeHatley
August 6, 2006, 09:54 PM
Good plan. The PC625 is a cut above...

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/625pc_r.jpg

Joe

Ops Officer
August 6, 2006, 11:44 PM
Thanks, Joe. I called quite a few dealers in my state yesterday, but no luck so far. Camfour is the sole distributor for the PC 625 Jerry Mikulek. Two dealers checked an inventory sheet and told me Camfour doesn't even list it. (Last week the S&W rep told me Camfour was the sole distributor for the PC 625.) That is why I figure I should be patient. Meanwhile, I'll keep my eye peeled for a 25-2. What do you figure a new PC 625 will cost? BTW, if that is your PC 625 that's a beautiful gun. Did you change the grip?

P0832177
August 7, 2006, 03:17 AM
The PC guns will be well over 900 bucks. On another board a while back there was post how the last of the PC JM was shipped from Camfour. Your choice now is scrounge boards and check gunbroker or auction arms! There is not a darn thing wrong with a 625 in either regular or JM main stream version. A nice trigger job will be a nice touch, and then you get it to the range and shoot! Quit key boarding and start shooting! I have had PC V Comp, and I sent it back for some trigger work. I was not impressed! I was more impressed by the local gunsmith's efforts on my other 625's!

Ops Officer
August 7, 2006, 07:13 AM
The last PC 625 was shipped from Camfour? That would explain the reports from a couple of dealers of no inventory at Camfour. However, S&W still produces the gun. There is the possibility of a S&W Showcase dealer ordering a PC 625 directly from S&W, which one dealer said he might be able to do. Occasionally, I see a V-comp in a gun, but I really don't know anything about it. Please enlighten me what a V-comp is.

jjohnson
August 7, 2006, 09:20 AM
My 625 is bone stock .45ACP, like it so much I haven't decided to change anything yet - and I'm one of those guys who starts ordering parts before I have posession of the gun. I was going to have a smith slick the action just a little - it wasn't bad but it wasn't butter smooth, either - and didn't get around to it. I'm slicking it the hard way - shooting it over and over and over....:evil:
And though I wouldn't want to carry it all day (five inch barrel, full lug) it's a honey of a shooter when I'm doing my job. I know you can do better with custom jobs but I'm very satisfied with mine out of the box. :)

Oh, yeah... I do have a pair of Colt M1917 WWI revolvers, and you can't BELIEVE how slick those are! If they had better sights I'd be in hog heaven!

JoeHatley
August 7, 2006, 01:16 PM
My wife bought me the PC625 for my birthday back in 2001. I think she paid $850.

Yes, I changed the grip. I prefer rubber Hogue monogrips on all my range guns. The stock wood "Miculek" grip hurt my hand. I also removed the gold bead front sight blade and replaced it with a Patridge from Jack Weigand.

www.camfour.com/77570176.htm

There is a NB 4" at Guns America: www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976464913.htm

Joe

Stainz
August 7, 2006, 05:53 PM
That turn line and the scratches towards the front of cylinder make me wonder about it's overall condition. At least the IDPA crowd will be happy - it's a 4"-er! Also, those multicolor Miculek stocks kept me disinterested in a PC627 a year or two back in .38 Super (My 625JM's Miculeks are pao ferro - quite nice looking and feeling.). Still, you can see the same front & rear sights on the 625JM. Some pluses for the PC JM 625: shorter cylinder, tapered barrel, and adjustable trigger stop. Whether any of these are 'worth' a dime, much less sum to the difference in cost existing between the two, is an individual choice. The 625JM's hammer and trigger are hard chromed - the trigger is solid, rather than hollow like the MIM parts... they may be the same as the PC parts - just hard chromed. I have to admit that I like the partial lug far better than my 625JM's full lug - but I have become accustomed to it. Besides, it does help keep the barrel down during recoil. If money were no option...

Stainz

Ops Officer
August 7, 2006, 09:13 PM
Interesting. And so what is a V-comp all about?

A local dealer called me back today about the PC 625. He didn't have it, but agreed to contact Camfour, the sole distributor of the PC 625, and question the availability. I had told him that an S&W rep last week told me S&W still produced the gun and it appears on the S&W website. Camfour finally called the dealer hours later after he called today and insisted S&W no longer produced it. The dealer called S&W and waited three hours for a call-back of confirmation. The dealer called me later and finally cleared up the mystery about availability of the PC 625. It isn't. S&W has no plans to produce it again. John, your info was correct about that thread on another board that reported Camfour sold its last PC 625. But...the dealer also said the S&W rep would ask Camfour to survey where it sent these guns to find out if one is still occupying space in a display case collecting dust. I know, it's a slim hope, but a miracle might occur.:rolleyes:

Meanwhile, I'll canvas the gun shows and check the classifieds for awhile. I'll also look for a 25-2 while I'm at it. Often the journey is more interesting than the destination. However, In this case, the destination might be more interesting. I can see myself at the range with this gun in my hand.

I just might post a WTB on the classifieds, but I don't see many replies to those sorts of ads. Any suggestions?

BluesBear
August 9, 2006, 02:27 AM
I just couldn't keep the grips if I had the GunsAmerica gun mentioned in post #61.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43316&d=1155101257

Everytime I'd pick it up I'd think I was milking a cow.





:D

made2cut
August 9, 2006, 10:29 AM
Woah, those are some butt ugly grips!

I was shooting my 5 in 625 last night as I often do. It has to be my most accurate gun. On my second target I got four rounds into one ragged hole at 15 yards. Pretty good shooting if I do say so myself :p

Ops Officer
August 9, 2006, 04:25 PM
BluesBear, I saw that PC 625 with the awful-looking grip a couple of days ago as well. Another one was also offered that had the more subdued gray laminate. But it sold just hours before I could capture it. I hope I don't weaken and get the other one. If I do, I'll have to order a new grip before it arrives and slap it on within moments after I open the package. I wonder who at PC thought that was attractive?

I'm so ready to get this gun. The other one that is nudging me is the 25-2. I let a couple of excellent ones slip by me over the past several days.

I told my wife I need a .45ACP revolver because I have 2,500 rounds of PSWC that my autoloaders don't like at all. I need a .45ACP wheel gun to make this inventory go away.

P0832177
August 9, 2006, 09:17 PM
Get the 625JM, you can swap the grips and sell off the JM grips to offset the cost of the gun. The front site is user replaceable, thus you can go from Fiber Optic, Gold Bead, or Partridge with little effort. For get about the MIM, that is a non issue. But, the gun and quit keyboarding! Get out and shoot!

Dr.Rob
August 10, 2006, 12:38 AM
I've found that my 1917 Colt New Service was very capable of knocking down bowling pins at 100 yards... but for target shooting a 6 inch SW model 625 is hard to beat. Easier to find too.

Ops Officer
August 13, 2006, 10:28 AM
I've also run into ads about the 625 that were produced in the past that were described as Model of 1988 or Model of 1989. Some were described as having no MIM parts and no trigger lock. Also, was the PC 625 JM ever produced with a 5" barrel? I received notice of one. I thought the PC 625 was only produced with a 4" barrel. Comment?

P0832177
August 13, 2006, 11:03 AM
I've found that my 1917 Colt New Service was very capable of knocking down bowling pins at 100 yards... but for target shooting a 6 inch SW model 625 is hard to beat. Easier to find too.


I do not think there has been a 625 produced in 6in ever! Now the 25-2 has been, perhaps that is what you meant?

ugaarguy
August 13, 2006, 11:07 AM
Ops Officer, if you can get a 625 thats pre lock, and pre MIM at a decent price I'd go for it. You can always get the action tuned, and there are tons of competent S&W gunsmiths who can do it for you at a reasonable cost. The closer to the 40s and 50s a S&W was made the better the craftsmanship will be.

jjohnson
August 13, 2006, 11:31 AM
I had to go touch mine just to make sure! No MIM parts (whew!):eek:
and there CERTAINLY isn't some (I spit) REVOLVER SAFETY :barf: on it.
It's nice, smooth, and not defiled by some heathen treachery.

*sigh* now my wife is going to insist I go to church this morning.... :banghead:
That's what I get for getting excited......

Peter M. Eick
August 13, 2006, 05:00 PM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/pre25_best_target.jpg

I think this one ranks up there with one of the more accurate 45 ACP's. This is my best target with a pre-25 that was seriously worked over (not the hammer jeweling) with coke grips etc. That target has 50 shots at 15 yards in it all shot offhand.

Deanimator
August 13, 2006, 08:38 PM
However if you ever run across a Colt New Service, or a New Service Target in .45 ACP grab it.
You'll never be sorry and you'll have a gun different from everyone else on the block.
I've got a New Service that I think was converted [badly] from .45LC to .45ACP, possibly in Mexico, since it was forcibly removed from a Mexican criminal in Chicago many years ago. At first I thought it was an M1917, but all of the details scream commercial New Service.

It keyholes on every shot. Any idea where I could get a .45LC cylinder? Also, any idea on how I can track down details via the serial number without paying an arm and a leg to Colt?

Thanks.

Ops Officer
August 13, 2006, 11:19 PM
Peter, obviously you are quite comfortable with your pre-25. That's excellent. What happens when you stretch it to 25 yards? Do you compete with it?

jjohnson
August 15, 2006, 09:34 AM
Hey, try slugging that thing's cylinder and bore just for fun before you invest cash in it. I have an M1917 that was ACP converted to .45 Colt and found that the reason (duh) it shot so badly was back in those days, the Colt was .454 and the ACP .451, instead of all .451 like it is now. All I had to do was buy a pile of .454 sized cast lead and *poof* the thing started to SHOOT!:what:

Just a thought. Don't break your heart and spend your retirement money if you can check something simple first.:banghead:

Deanimator
August 15, 2006, 09:53 AM
Just a thought. Don't break your heart and spend your retirement money if you can check something simple first.
I've MAYBE spent $30 total on the gun, including ammo. I got it for free from my aunt's boyfriend for fixing her computer one Christmas. The biggest iinvestment was a British .476 cylinder I bought new at a gunshow four or five years ago.

The larger sized bullets are a definite possibility. The gun is nickel (except for the replacement lanyard ring I bought for it), starting to dull a bit. It's got a lot of character for sure.

Ops Officer
August 15, 2006, 12:21 PM
.45man, that is a wondrous handgun. But that would be a bit much for me. I've read about Freedom Arms. It appears to be more custom than limited production, though it is. I don't believe I'll be ready for such a rig as you have for quite some time. Thanks for sharing the pic, though.

Peter M. Eick
August 19, 2006, 07:44 AM
Ops Officer,

No I don't compete and actually that was only the second time out with the gun. I just happened to have a good day and it shot well. Our range at 25 yards is sort of a pain because the 25 is right next to the 75 and we get a lot of folks blasting with rifles and super-magnums so it is not much fun with a handgun. I prefer the other end of the range with the 15 yard crowd.

I found the gun is a lot of fun to shoot. Very easy to make yourself look a lot better then you really are. Its been heavily worked over back in the late 50's if you look at it carefully (jeweled hammer etc.) but was essentially unfired when I got it.

Since I took that picture, I probably have only shot the gun another 2000 rounds give or take. Just not enough time to get to the range, but fall is coming so I will have it out in October. To hot right now here in Houston.

Ops Officer
August 20, 2006, 12:00 AM
Peter, the jeweled hammer keeps sticking in my mind whenever I look at your gun. What is a jeweled hammer? Was that a popular upgrade at some time?

Fortunately, my outdoor range has the pistol range at least 50 yards separated along the line from the long guns. The range is a bit primitive, but it does have marked 14 and 25 yards. Last weekend I set my target stand at 7 yards to work a 642 with my wife. Fortunately, there were no other handgunners at the range. This range only allows paper or soft targets. Metal plates are not allowed. A few months ago, we witnessed a couple of guys who dragged a .50 sniper rifle (Barrett wanabe) to the range and fired a few military surplus rounds at a 100-yard target. The noise was impressive even at the handgun end of the range. The strange part about it was neither one of these guys wore hearing protection.

Peter M. Eick
August 22, 2006, 09:51 PM
If you look at the side of the hammer, you will see small circular marks in the metal. This is the jeweling pattern that is supposed to hold the oil on the part and look nice also. It appears to be popular with in the middle 50's but I only am making the observation from other guns. Today some might call it "pimping" the gun but it is exceptionally smooth.

Ops Officer
August 23, 2006, 09:28 PM
Peter, thanks for the explanation. I guessed it was a fad, because I don't see the jeweled parts on revolvers made during the thirty years. But you added the possible utility of an oil trap to keep it lubricated longer and make the action smoother.

jdog42
November 5, 2006, 06:17 PM
I am definately not an expert shooter, but I purchased a colt 1917 and when shooting at 30 yds, was about 95 percent in shooting stationary clays placed on a birm. I shot about 60 rounds, and can say that I am thrilled with how it shoots, and how nice it is with the moon clips to load quickly. I actually enjoy shooting it more than my son's 1911...

Ops Officer
November 5, 2006, 10:40 PM
Welcome to the forum, jdog42. You'll find a wealth of information here from highly knowledgeable handgunners as I did. Since you resurrected this thread, I may as well update those who helped me with my .45 ACP revolver purchases.

Thanks to a couple of forum members on this forum and the S&W forum, I have a PC 625JM, 5" barrel and a 25-2, 6 61/2" barrel. Naturally, both guns have no MIM parts or ILS. I'm so glad I waited until I found what I wanted. The 25-2 was in mint condition and fired very little. I've fired a few cylinders from each so far and they are amazingly accurate. I wish my range had more than a 25 yard distance for handguns. They both beg for more distance. I do need to adjust the rear sight on the 25-2, since it shoots several inches low at 25 yards. Though I'm casually looking for a 4" 625, which I might run into one day, I am quite satisfied with the 625 I have. At some point, I'll provide more information about the accuracy and photos of these beauties.

Before I forget, thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I've used semi-autos for more than 30 years, but I started out with wheel guns. I forgot what fun an old flame was.

44and45
November 6, 2006, 07:34 PM
.45 acp or .45 auto rim, in a 1937 Brazilian is a pretty good shooter, just don't try to make a magnum out of it with hot loads.

Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P7110038Brazilianwithnewshoescroppe.jpg

JimC
November 7, 2006, 11:56 AM
The most accurste .45 ACP revolver that I have ever owned is an S&W 625-2 5". Still have it with no plans of ever letting it go. ;)

Back in '71 (I looked it up in my records) I had an S&W 1955 6 1/2" that was plenty accurate also. Wish I still had that one. :(

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