Are any Republican presidential hopefuls really supportive of the 2nd Amendment?


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vito
June 15, 2006, 07:40 AM
We know the Democrats are almost universally in support of strict gun control, and I fear that many Republican hopefuls are not much better. Giving your vote to a Libertarian or other fringe party candidate is likely to be just another vote for Queen Hilary. Of the many Republicans who are likely to seek the nomination, are any of them really a friend of those of us who are dedicated to protecting our right to keep and bear arms?

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Zrex
June 15, 2006, 08:06 AM
Every politician is a friend of the second amendment. They will all tell you that. Just make sure you ask them to define the meaning of the second amendment.

Even the ones who say it is an individual right have no problems with restricting it. I would imagine that half of the people here would have no problem restricting it.

bestseller92
June 15, 2006, 08:11 AM
Senator George Allen of Virginia is very strong on the Second Amendment.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 15, 2006, 08:23 AM
Also, while I couldn't say what he truly believes, Senator Bill Frist has certainly been a good ally in the Senate. His willingness to use a rare parliamentary procedure called "filling the tree" stopped Feinstein's AWB from being attached to a bill in July 2004 and it also helped lawsuit protection pass in 2005. Based on his actions, I think he would stand up for RKBA as President.

Bubbles
June 15, 2006, 09:03 AM
Every politician is a friend of the second amendment. They will all tell you that. Just make sure you ask them to define the meaning of the second amendment.

Good point. Even Chuckie Schumer claims to support the Second Amendment - the "collective right" interpretation of it... :banghead:


Senator George Allen of Virginia is very strong on the Second Amendment.

Yes, though as a long-time Virginia GOP activist I can say that unfortunately he has to be shocked in the b***s with a political cattle prod before he'll do anything about it. :rolleyes:

Oldtimer
June 15, 2006, 10:25 AM
Senators Bill Frist and George Allen have been FAIRLY good at gun-related issues.

I may be mistaken, but Newt Gingrich has stated that he is 100% pro-Second Amendment AND gun rights for individuals.

On the other side of the political aisle, isn't John Kerry pro-gun? We've seen him with shotguns after doing some goose hunting, and he supposedly drilled some .50 caliber holes in enemy forces during his VERY short Viet Nam duty! (Pardon me, I think that I just bit my tongue!)

Camp David
June 15, 2006, 10:40 AM
OnTheIssues here (http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Gun_Control.htm) shows President Bush's positions on various gun-related issues.

Many gun advocates have become disappointed with the current adminstration in terms of gun policy issues, yet their disenchantment largely hinges on aspects of the Patriot Act and homeland security policy as opposed to strictly gun-related issues. In terms of support for Second Amendment Rights, the president remains committed to the ideals of the NRA and the rights of American gun owners.

Ira Aten
June 15, 2006, 12:03 PM
Condi Rice responded to a question about her stance on the 2nd, and she delivered one of the most wonderful statements about the 2nd, (and the 14th Amendments guarantee after Reconstruction that all "persons" will have that same right to keep and bear arms to also protect themselves) that I ever heard.

She said that without the 2nd, and 14th, her father would not have been able to keep guns to provide protection for her, and the rest of his family from Klan members where she grew up.

She does not have any problem "interpreting" the reason we have a right to keep and bear arms. She is the only person closely resembling an American in the whole bunch.

Intellectually, McCain, Frist, Guliani, and just about the entire Senate and House would need to climb to the top rung of a step ladder, and jump as high as they could, just to kiss her rear end.

She is smart enough not to trust anyone in the United Nations no matter what, and she believes in the 2nd and 14th, as an actual core value from childhood.

I only wish the effort to get her to run could be successful. She is the only Republican I would consider voting for and supporting in 2008. Otherwise, I am going with a Libertarian party or a Constitutional party vote if any other candidate is nominated for that race. Guliani or McCain would sign the U.N. Gun Small Weapons Ban treaty just as quickly as Hillary Clinton or Chuck Schumer would.

PS. Camp David, Bush can't run in 2008. And he wanted to extend the AK ban that the Clintonistas got passed. The only thing that stopped him is the Senate and House had better sense at the time, so he gave up pushing it.

yucaipa
June 15, 2006, 02:31 PM
Craig of Idaho.

Delay was a good good friend of the RKBA, he didn't shout it from the roof tops but as 'Majority Leader' he always had an eye out for gun owners.

Alex45ACP
June 15, 2006, 02:45 PM
isn't John Kerry pro-gun? We've seen him with shotguns after doing some goose hunting,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/6655321/itsatrap.jpg

Lone_Gunman
June 15, 2006, 03:38 PM
In terms of support for Second Amendment Rights, the president remains committed to the ideals of the NRA and the rights of American gun owners.


Really?

Didnt he support AWB renewal?

With the stroke of his pen, he could have single-handedly reversed all of the bad executive orders regarding firearms importation signed by his daddy and Clinton... but for some reason he hasn't.

I see very little commitment to the 2nd Amendment in Bush.

leadcounsel
June 15, 2006, 04:50 PM
I second that Rice is a supporter of individual RKBA. I think that her daddy defended their family during racial tensions in the South using firearms, or something to that effect.

slzy
June 15, 2006, 07:34 PM
are there any pro 2nd amendment anti-illegal alien guest-worker/amnesty candidates out there?

bestseller92
June 15, 2006, 07:38 PM
Tom Tancredo and Tom Coburn. I doubt either will run for the White House, though.

cropcirclewalker
June 15, 2006, 07:51 PM
Absolute onlyiest republican I could conceive of voting for for Prez would be Ron Paul.

He's really a stealth Libertarian.

edited.....i before e except after c

SIOP
June 15, 2006, 07:58 PM
Condi Rice responded to a question about her stance on the 2nd, and she delivered one of the most wonderful statements about the 2nd, (and the 14th Amendments guarantee after Reconstruction that all "persons" will have that same right to keep and bear arms to also protect themselves) that I ever heard.

She said that without the 2nd, and 14th, her father would not have been able to keep guns to provide protection for her, and the rest of his family from Klan members where she grew up.

I second that Rice is a supporter of individual RKBA. I think that her daddy defended their family during racial tensions in the South using firearms, or something to that effect.



Condi, Condi, Condi. I continue to read this drivel on all the gun boards. You guys need to get a clue. Condoleeza Rice is NOT a conservative. She is part of the cabal that wants to TAKE YOUR GUNS. Wake up, people.

She NEVER said that she supports an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. What she said was that her father and his pals formed a "sort of militia" to protect themselves. The same kind of ambiguous statement of support for the 2nd Amendment that you hear from creeps like John Kerry and the rest of the crowd that really wants to disarm you.

She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. They promote global governance (read: United Nations). The United Nations wants to take your guns. You do the math.

yucaipa
June 15, 2006, 09:53 PM
She NEVER said that she supports an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. What she said was that her father and his pals formed a "sort of militia" to protect themselves. The same kind of ambiguous statement of support for the 2nd Amendment that you hear from creeps like John Kerry and the rest of the crowd that really wants to disarm you.



"I also don't think we get to pick and choose in the Constitution. The Second Amendment is as important as the First Amendment." May 11, 2005

"My father and his friends defended our community in 1962 and 1963 against white nightriders by going to the head of the community, the head of the cul-de-sac, and sitting there armed. And so I'm very concerned about any abridgement of the Second Amendment." May 11, 2005

"I am a Second Amendment absolutist." Summer, 1999



She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. They promote global governance (read: United Nations). The United Nations wants to take your guns. You do the math.

If you think Rice is part of the UN plot to "take away your guns" you need to rethink this, you took a wrong turn somewhere.

longeyes
June 15, 2006, 10:05 PM
Frist has no shot at the Presidency, especially after his hamfisted handling of the immigration bill.

George Allen will have trouble retaining his Senate seat.

I wouldn't count on either of those guys.

Condi? I don't see her running, and although I like many things about her I think the prospect of her running for the Presidency without first holding major elective office is far-fetched. She is also very identified with W., and that's no plus right now.

cropcirclewalker
June 15, 2006, 10:11 PM
Arlen Specter

He had a magic bullet theory.

Lone_Gunman
June 15, 2006, 10:51 PM
She is also very identified with W., and that's no plus right now.


I would say that is Condoleeza Rice's biggest obstacle.

I am so tired of Bush there is no way I could vote for anyone who worked for him.

VARifleman
June 15, 2006, 11:01 PM
Mark Warner (formger VA governor) has been decent on it as far as I can tell. Someone on here can verify I'm sure. although he's a democrat.

Hawkmoon
June 15, 2006, 11:14 PM
I think you'll find that the Demos are gradually coming to realize that "gun control" is a vote losing issue for them.
True.

Which only means they will change what they say about it ... they won't change what they DO about it.

wheelgunslinger
June 16, 2006, 09:24 AM
From what I've seen in the last two elections, my vote doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to the presidential candidates. Elections got hijacked, green party candidates got excluded from my ballot by my state (NC).
I'll vote for a Libertarian candidate if I can't vote for a Green party candidate- unless some Federalist Papers party comes into being. Either way, my vote won't matter since the election for president isn't one. It's an office chosen by the electoral college, the members of which will do whatever is most financially and politically expedient for them as individuals.
My congressional, state, and local politicians are the only ones I can pull the reigns back on or even attempt to influence with my vote and will get more of my attention. In fact, I'm going to try running for office in a couple of years here on the local level.

Battler
June 16, 2006, 10:24 AM
77% rule - 77% of the population support any "reasonable" incremental gun control step.

A politician who openly opposes 77% of the population on an issue is not viable a national politician.

Take the AWB. Kerry openly supported the AWB. Clinton openly supported the AWB. Bush openly supported the AWB. But what you say and what you do can be separate - if you REALLY support the AWB you go on TV and wave your finger at the camera talking about NRA members, and horse-trade votes FOR the AWB.

"Gun rights" is the queen mother superior of lost causes. We are buying time. Given a good shooting massacre a politician who wishes to remain viable must support gun control. Through electing politicians who are more predisposed towards delay/inaction on the issue (the closest thing to support that a viable politician can give) you buy time to play with your guns.


Battler.

Correia
June 16, 2006, 12:36 PM
77% people may say that, but what percentage have a clue, or do anything about it. It is easy to answer yes in some nebulous poll.

The people on our side tend to be a lot more vocal, actually campaign, write checks, so on and so forth. A vocal, active minority is a lot more powerful than a large majority that doesn't give a damn.

The majority of people are in favor of balanced budgets, world peace, and clean air. Doesn't mean that any of them have a clue about how to do any of these things either.

On the whole Condi is a one worlder, and the Bush administration is just here to cleave us into the UN, why in the world did they fight to confirm John Bolton as the ambassador?

Just_a_dude_with_a_gun
June 16, 2006, 12:38 PM
Anyone running for office is only interested in what would get them as many votes as possible. the 2A is just one little "lobby". No, they don't "care".

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2006, 01:07 PM
On the whole Condi is a one worlder, and the Bush administration is just here to cleave us into the UN, why in the world did they fight to confirm John Bolton as the ambassador?

Other than give us some good one-liners and sound bites, what has John Bolton done for us exactly?

Correia
June 16, 2006, 03:42 PM
And what democrat appointed ambassador wouldn't sign the UN treaties on international gun control, exactly?

Dan from MI
June 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
McCain sucks. Rudi is anti. Romney I don't trust on this issue.

Of the "contenders", I'm leaning towards George Allen. My top choices are Mark Sanford or Mike Pence if they run. Tom Tancredo is pro-2a as well if he runs.

cbsbyte
June 16, 2006, 04:39 PM
Non that are electable to the general populus. The best bet for the Republicans winning in 08, would be a moderate like McCain, or Guiliani. But since I don't see either one of them getting the nomination, it looks like the Dems will have the best chance in winning. Gun owners can hope for is a moderate Democrat, like Richardson or Warner winning the Democrat nomination. But I don't see that happening either. It might be best to just bury your guns in 09.

zoom6zoom
June 16, 2006, 06:22 PM
Maybe Cheney will run. At least he's already shot one lawyer...

P99waltherP99
June 16, 2006, 06:30 PM
We know the Democrats are almost universally in support of strict gun control

Everyone is for gun control, other wise everyone could carry without permits and we could have automatic weapons.

Northslope Nimrod
June 16, 2006, 06:35 PM
Condi won't be the Presidential candidate....but she would probably be the best one on the 2nd Amendment.
Romney may look good on the ticket as a VP...but he won't make it on the ticket as President. I THINK he is pro 2A....but not sure to what extent.

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2006, 08:07 PM
Isn't Romney the Governor of Massachussetts?

How pro-2A can he be?

I will emphatically state I will vote for no one who has ever held an office in Massachussetts. If the people of Massachussetts think he is OK to vote for, then obviously he is NOT.

mordechaianiliewicz
June 16, 2006, 08:12 PM
Two Words:


RON PAUL



While I know this is pure fantasy, I can hope.

wwhitby
June 16, 2006, 09:55 PM
Right now, McCain and Guiliani appear to be the front runners for the Republican nomination, but I don't see either being elected, unless they can actually change their stripes and appeal to the conservative Republican voters. It can happen though, since history is filled with politicians who couldn't get elected or reelected since they didn't appeal to their party's base (George Bush in 1992 comes to mind.)

On the democrat side, its going to be either Gore or Hillary Clinton, neither of which is a friend to gun owners. The left wing of the democratic party is calling the shots right now, so a moderate or conservative democrat won't have a chance at the nomination. Unfortunately for America, if you think the partisan hatred is bad now (or when Clinton was president), it will definately get worse if either Gore or Hillary is elected.

What I see happening is that Gore or Hillary is nominated by the Democrats and McCain or Guiliani is nominated by the Republicans. The conservative Republicans will stay home or vote Libertarian, and we'll have President Gore or President Clinton the next day :-(

IMHO, what we need to be really, really concerned about is the House and Senate races this year, 2008, 2010 and 2012. Even if Gore or Hillary was elected in 2008, a Republican House and Senate would help to neutralize much of their left-wing agenda. Right now, Dick Morris (who is usually right) is predicting that the Democrats will regain the House and Senate, but he rightly admits that its a long way to November.

I worry more about a Democrat-controlled Congress with a Democrat president.

Warren

cropcirclewalker
June 16, 2006, 10:21 PM
Hey, you republican 2a types, I understand your concern.

I yam a 2a type myself. Only problem is, I yam not a republican. I never really thought about it, since I yam not a republican, but, yes, ya'll have a real problem. None of you statist republicans can come up with a real pro 2a candidate.

Hey, no problemo, no Democrat candidate will be considered to be a pro 2a candidate either.

You republican and democrat type pro 2a types are screwed. Yes, I, as a pro 2a type libertarian am also screwed, but at least, I know what is going to happen.

We reap what we sow.

If we live, maybe we will learn.

SomeKid
June 16, 2006, 11:48 PM
Also, while I couldn't say what he truly believes, Senator Bill Frist has certainly been a good ally in the Senate. His willingness to use a rare parliamentary procedure called "filling the tree" stopped Feinstein's AWB from being attached to a bill in July 2004 and it also helped lawsuit protection pass in 2005. Based on his actions, I think he would stand up for RKBA as President.

Bartholomew,

Bill Frist is only in anything for himself. He has no balls, nor is he conservative. He voted for the amnesty for illegals, only did anything for us in the Senate when he got a massive shout from the people to do something a specific way, and he generally makes me sick.

Occaisionally I read in the paper that little section where they list how our Congressmen vote, and Frist typically makes me wretch. (Alexander is no better.)

Zedicus
June 17, 2006, 01:35 AM
Expecting a Politician to tell the Truth is like expecting a Rabid Dog not to bite you....:fire:

mljdeckard
June 17, 2006, 03:25 AM
Romney is VERY conservative, and he's from a Utah mormon family, not Massachusets.

Before running for governor of MA, he headed the Salt Lake Olympic Comittee after the bribery scandal. He ensured that the games would be successful and profitable, and refused to cash his paychecks for the position until AFTER they games turned a profit.

While I am not aware of any specific policy on guns for him, I do know that he made sure employees of SLOC who had permits were not harassed at work during their jobs prior to the games.

John Huntsman Jr, the current governor of Utah, has a carry permit, and would make a great candidate, but not this election. Look for him in 2012.

wwhitby
June 17, 2006, 08:34 AM
John Huntsman Jr, the current governor of Utah, has a carry permit, and would make a great candidate, but not this election. Look for him in 2012.

This brings up a good point - those Governors, Senators and Representatives that actually do care about and protect our 2nd Amendment rights now will be presidential candidates in another 8-12 years.

Warren

jacobtowne
June 17, 2006, 09:22 AM
While I am not aware of any specific policy on guns for him, I do know that he made sure employees of SLOC who had permits were not harassed at work during their jobs prior to the games.

Concerning Romney, he signed into law a Mass. Assault Weapons Ban in the summer of 2004, which is nothing that Bush Jr. hadn't promised to do on several occasions.
JT

RealGun
June 17, 2006, 12:32 PM
None of you statist republicans can come up with a real pro 2a candidate. - cropcirclewalker

This is the kind of nonsense that starts unproductive food fights. Republicans are not necessarily statists or deserving of pejoratives. They do actually carry the ball for RKBA, many of them libertarian minded and great allies, who would prefer to get elected. Why do LPers have to defecate on so many threads here?

cropcirclewalker
June 17, 2006, 02:51 PM
This is the kind of nonsense that starts unproductive food fights. Republicans are not necessarily statists or deserving of pejoratives. They do actually carry the ball for RKBA, many of them libertarian minded and great allies, who would prefer to get elected. Why do LPers have to defecate on so many threads here? Sorry, Mr. Gun, I didn't mean to set you off.

If you read my whole post you would have seen that I dumped on the whole party in my post, not just the rebuplican wing. I further was not doing pejoratives on all of the republicans just the statist ones.

Was I talking about you? I was unaware if I was.

I guess maybe I am disappointed in the results of their total yards gained in their ball carrying. I woulda thought that we coulda got gca68 repealed by now since all those pro 2a republicans have been in power. Maybe even just mentioning it woulda helped.

Total power. All 3 branches.

If we had elected Badnarik we woulda had more yards gained.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get your dandruff up.

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