Sub-machine gun stolen while West Bloomfield officer attends Tigers game


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shermacman
June 15, 2006, 08:56 PM
Here's a new game! Spot the errors of all the players:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/UPDATE/606150463

DETROIT -- A West Bloomfield Police officer who took a department car and sub-machine gun to a Detroit Tigers game Wednesday night is under investigation.
Between 8-10 p.m., as the officer attended the game, someone broke into the undercover car as it sat parked on Woodward and stole a .9 mm Colt SMG sub-machine gun from the back seat along with some ammunition, said Detroit Police Sgt. Omar Feliciano.
The gun is Colt's lightweight version of the M-16 rifle, according the gunmaker's Web site. It will fire all standard .9 mm bullets and is designed for close fights.
The West Bloomfield officer -- who both police departments declined to name -- is a three-year veteran.

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proud2deviate
June 15, 2006, 09:10 PM
Nine tenths of a millimeter? Next gen needle-gun, perhaps :rolleyes:

Maser
June 15, 2006, 09:35 PM
LOL!! You beat me to it. Maybe it was a class III pea shooter. :neener:

Barbara
June 15, 2006, 09:41 PM
Well, its not as if he can carry into a sports arena in Michigan..that would be dangerous!

Bigjake
June 15, 2006, 09:44 PM
asside from what was already pointed out, what technicallitys did they miss?

Selfdfenz
June 15, 2006, 09:56 PM
.9mm

They must have tiny criminals in that area. I bet the Bore Snake for that unit is a special order item?

S-

ABTOMAT
June 15, 2006, 11:11 PM
Sounds easier to shoot than the "45mm" Colts that the Boston Globe mentioned a while back.

carpettbaggerr
June 15, 2006, 11:49 PM
Well, I guess it's so small that he didn't see it sitting in the back seat. Or else the officer figured nobody'd steal anything out of a cop car.

pete f
June 16, 2006, 01:31 AM
Now that is an "awwwww chit NOOOOOOO!!!!!" moment in anybody's book.

Dacoda
June 16, 2006, 01:38 AM
Ok gentlemen... before we go making harsh comments and accusations of this officer... lets all remember... this officer was the "only one professionoo 'nuff to use" that weapon.


Did I get it right?

4v50 Gary
June 16, 2006, 01:41 AM
Some departments allow officers to take their equipment and vehicle home. This ensures a faster response time if a specialized unit needs to be assembled. Now, if such was the case, attending a game isn't so bad if said officer was off duty. However, leaving anything in sight (presumably it was in some sort of carrying case) of a back seat is inviting an auto-burglary. As a police officer, he should have known that "smash & grab" happens all the time. I hope for the public's sake the gun is recovered.:uhoh:

Maser
June 16, 2006, 01:44 AM
What i'm kind of wondering is how come the SMG was in the same place that an arrested person gets placed at? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep it in the trunk?

Azrael256
June 16, 2006, 01:53 AM
As a police officer, he should have known that "smash & grab" happens all the time Absolutely. He deserves a good hard thwack across the head from his watch commander. Aside from that, the thief is the one to hold responsible.

The way the article is phrased makes me think that the weapon was in some kind of case or bag. I think the theft was more of an attempt to steal a bag that might contain a gun rather than to steal a SMG laying across the backseat with a couple boxes of ammo next to it. Either way, it should've been locked in the trunk.

Lucky
June 16, 2006, 03:08 AM
Is this the SMG based on the AR15? How much TLC do those need to function?

Maser
June 16, 2006, 03:13 AM
I was just looking at an old gun price list book and it said the Colt target model of the AR15 comes either in 9mm or .223. I'm guessing it's the same lower as the true AR15, but just with a 9mm upper and different types of magazines.

What would really be cool was if that SMG in the story was one of them CAR models in 9mm. That would be a dream to shoot. The story does say the gun was made for fighting up close so i'm guessing it was a CAR model.

SteveS
June 16, 2006, 08:52 AM
What a surprise?!? Tiger Stadium is in such a nice part of town. Very low crime.

sparx
June 16, 2006, 10:38 AM
.9mm

They must have tiny criminals in that area. I bet the Bore Snake for that unit is a special order item?
Nah... Just spit on a thread and run it through! Works great on those "hopper poppers". Loaded with the correct HV ammo using the latest technology in micro-primers, grasshoppers don't stand a chance (though I've heard that .9mm FMJ rounds can bounce right off their thorax, so make every shot a head-shot)!

LaEscopeta
June 16, 2006, 12:59 PM
.9 mm Colt SMG sub-machine gunAre they stuttering? Doesn’t SMG mean sub-machine?

Also, here is the link from Colt’s web site for the firearm I think they are talking about;

http://www.colt.com/law/smg.asp

Looks like a 9 mm select-fire carbine built from M-4 parts. Look at the 9 mm magazine fit into the .223 mag well. (To be a true sub-gun, doesn’t it have to be full auto only? Or at least burst-fire, but not semi-auto? I don’t know, I’m just asking.)

sterling180
June 16, 2006, 01:08 PM
Between 8-10 p.m., as the officer attended the game, someone broke into the undercover car as it sat parked on Woodward and stole a .9 mm Colt SMG sub-machine gun from the back seat along with some ammunition, said Detroit Police Sgt. Omar Feliciano.

Hasn't that cop or the Detroit Police Department,ever heard of Car safes,for carrying shotguns,smgs,pistols,etc,etc.If he wanted to carry department property,why didn't he install a car safe,or use a car that had one installed-in case of an incident like what had happend? By the way,doesn't an officer need a senior officers permission,to carry that kind of hardware,around with them?

By the way,why did he need to take a Colt Commando smg with him,when he went to watch a baseball game.Was he under attack from gansters or terrorists,or did he feel safer carrying it.?:rolleyes:

If this happend in the UK,with a G36 assault-rifle or an MP5 smg,then the commissioner, the Police Cheif,the Superintendant,the Cheif Inspector and Inspector-would have that guy for breakfast and fire him in the process,by booting him out on his backside.

Kurush
June 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
For the sake of argument... So what? There are 200+ million guns in this country, probably a few thousand get stolen every day. Is a 9mm AR-15 style SMG really any more dangerous than a $150 wal-mart shotgun loaded with 000 buck?

Red State
June 16, 2006, 02:27 PM
I'll trade you the Walmart shotgun for the Colt SMG. Straight up.

But I do see your point. They can both be used improperly.

DoubleTapDrew
June 16, 2006, 03:38 PM
Lying on the back seat? Nice.
I would think the trunk or locked in the cabin would be a better choice. I'm not sure what a criminal would do with it (money-wise). You get caught with a non-transferrable dept. owned NFA gun and you just tacked 10 years and $100K onto whatever sentence you were looking at before, courtesy of the ATF. Of course criminals aren't very bright and laws don't scare them anyway.

bamawrx
June 16, 2006, 04:15 PM
You must admit it would be a cool gun to have, hold, till death to part etc..

I have a Colt AR-15 in 9mm semi-auto and its tons of fun. No recoil, light weight, very quiet, great for kids and new shooters.

sterling180
June 16, 2006, 04:57 PM
For the sake of argument... So what? There are 200+ million guns in this country, probably a few thousand get stolen every day. Is a 9mm AR-15 style SMG really any more dangerous than a $150 wal-mart shotgun loaded with 000 buck?
No,but the fact is that it belonged to the police department and that cop should have known better,than to have taken a submachine gun out with him and not taken precautions as to secure it.

If some street punk or gang member uses that gun to kill innocent people with,then guess who is going to have lawsuits and lawyers,nosing around-the Detroit Police Department and the Commissioner and Police Cheif are really going to have a pleasant day,dealing with all the lawsuits as well as members of the free press-who would have a field day,by covering the story of police incompetance and broadcasting it around the USA and around the free-world.

That cop was a total idiot,to have stored it,on the back-seat of the squad-car.Talk about letting the whole world know,as well as an extremely happy theif, or theives.


000 buckshot is powerful,especially at closer-ranges-but the point is that this is about incompetance,carelessness and poor storage of department property.I don't think that the cops, the Mayor and the Mayor's office,are going to share your views-somehow.I think that what you had said would have struck a sensitive nerve,somehow.

On all the Remington firearms manuals,it shows a picture of a gun safe and guidelines about safe storage and weapon handling.So it does matter,if a weapon is stolen-if the owner is careless and irresponsible-in terms of failing to secure and store them appropriately.However,if professional theives, mange to break into gun safes and make off with weapons,then the owner has at least, tried their best,to store their weapons-safely.The fact is that a professional,has some useful tools,for breaking into theif-proof gunsafes-so the fact is that you really can't stop those,determined and highly-skilled,types of theives.

another okie
June 16, 2006, 05:30 PM
Just a little history note from this post:

"Next gen needle-gun, perhaps "

I think you mean a dart gun or blow gun.
A needle gun was a breech loading cartridge rifle developed by the Prussians in the 1860s. It's called that because the primer was between the powder and the bullet. When you pulled the trigger a needle punctured the casing and went through the powder, striking the primer and igniting it. The primer flash, in other words, went backwards. It was an effective weapon, but the needle, not surprisingly, rusted quickly.

There is a very good book on the Franco-Prussian War by Michael Howard. It's one of the best military history books I've ever read.

Nightfall
June 16, 2006, 05:47 PM
Alright, ‘fess up. Which one of us just thought of it as a much deserved “tax refund” and is now giggling incessantly? :D
Nine tenths of a millimeter? Next gen needle-gun, perhaps But... but its lethality comes from high-velocity fragmentation! :neener:

Henry Bowman
June 16, 2006, 05:59 PM
Only 0.9mm across, but it's looooooooong! :uhoh:

Punkermonkey
June 16, 2006, 06:08 PM
Fuhs said his department will investigate the loss of the West Bloomfield gun and Police Chief Ronald D. Cronin will decide if a disciplinary action is needed.

"Any disciplinary action will come in the future," Fuhs said.


As opposed to, what exactly? The past? Would that be considered retroactive discipline?

Quaamik
June 16, 2006, 08:42 PM
Remember, this happened in Detroit.

Forget "smash and grab".
Think: "the LoJack and unibody of the car was left, but some parts were cut out of it and the copper wires were removed from the LoJack".

I've had my car recoved in Detroit, partially stripped, 8 hours before I knew it was missing (about 15 minutes after I parked it).

Archie
June 17, 2006, 12:01 AM
...this officer will be writing memoranda for a very long time. Perhaps the rest of his career...

carpettbaggerr
June 17, 2006, 12:35 AM
...Which, in Detroit, will probably be long and fruitful -- possibly ending as Chief of Police. :uhoh:

71Commander
June 17, 2006, 07:25 AM
From my understanding of the events, the officer was in Detroit on a joint exercise with the DPD executing a drug warrant/raid. After the raid, he decided to stay in Detroit because he had tickets to the Tiger game. He was in his personal vehicle. It was a smash and grab.

Kentak
June 17, 2006, 08:50 AM
The linked article says 9 mm, not .9 mm. It was an unmarked car. The officer was part of a fast response team, so it was appropriate for him to have the gun in the car. I think it was negligent not to have it locked in the trunk while he was away from the car, though. Can't really find any technical errors in the article. SMG would be the wrong terminology unless the weapon was capable of full auto, which it certainly could have been.

K

71Commander
June 17, 2006, 09:13 AM
It was full auto and from what I read, it was a Jeep.

His supervisior called him a class "A" bonehead.

shermacman
June 17, 2006, 10:18 AM
Kentak
The original article, which I copied and quoted, did indeed say ".9 mm". The author, señior Espanosa, has corrected it.

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