(IL) Gunpowder feeds Newland fire


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Drizzt
June 16, 2006, 04:00 AM
Gunpowder feeds Newland fire

BY WYNN KOEBEL FOSTER | STAFF WRITER
wfoster@pioneerlocal.com

Norwood Park Fire Department firefighters responded at 10:50 p.m. June 6 to a blaze at a raised ranch house at 4236 N. Newland Ave., in Norridge.

"When we arrived, the building was fully engulfed -- with flames issuing from all sides," said Fire Chief Kevin Stenson. "We called for help from six other departments in the area. Shortly after we arrived, the roof collapsed."

The firefighters concentrated on protecting the homes on either side of the burning building.

"There was no point in going inside. The house was a goner," Stenson admitted. "The appliances from the first floor were already in the basement when we got there."

Fighting the fire was complicated by the owner's extensive gun collection. He made his own bullets, and there were primers or blasting caps, gunpowder and more at the scene, Stenson explained. Firefighters called for Cook County Bomb and Arson agents to assess the situation.

"We worked to keep curious crowds away from the building," Stenson added. "The fire was intense. We had to fight a defensive battle."

Agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms stayed at the site for two days, along with Norridge police, Norwood Park firefighters, Norridge Building and Code Enforcement officers and an excavating crew hired by the homeowner's insurance agency.

"The excavator took portions of the building apart, bit by bit, so ATF agents could search the scene," said Ken Radicke, Norridge code enforcement supervisor.

"The building has to come down. It's a hazard to the neighborhood."

The ATF agents confiscated the gunpowder in the home. Norridge detectives took the homeowner's guns into custody.

"I'm still in the process of taking inventory," said Detective Brian Loughran, of the Norridge Police Department.

"So far, I've counted about 95 handguns and 70 or 80 long guns. An additional 40 or so long guns were destroyed in the fire. He was a 'reloader,' who made his own bullets, and he also had a few rounds of ammunition for each of the guns in his collection in his home."

The homeowner was a collector, not a gun dealer, Loughran said, adding that police will return his guns when he can assure them he's living in an area where they are allowed.

"Nothing I can find -- anywhere on the books -- says he was doing anything illegal," Loughran said.

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/ed/06-15-06-951281.html

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Third_Rail
June 16, 2006, 05:05 AM
The ATF agents confiscated the gunpowder in the home. Norridge detectives took the homeowner's guns into custody.

***? The guy's house burns down and you TAKE HIS BELONGINGS?

"Nothing I can find -- anywhere on the books -- says he was doing anything illegal," Loughran said.

So, admission that he's innocent of any wrongdoing, and still his property is stolen? Why?

LAK
June 16, 2006, 06:15 AM
Why? The now ubiquitous and ever present BATmen just have to be there, and just have to do something. ;)

They are now to be accepted as being always there, and that it is to be accepted as normal. You know; "just in case". That way they will be accepted as a permanent feature in all things "police". This in spite of there being no police powers allocated to the Federal government - except on Federal property and territory.

Norridge PD probably did not want to be outdone by the BATmen, and thus took the guns.

---------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

Dave P
June 16, 2006, 07:38 AM
The ATF agents confiscated the gunpowder in the home. Norridge detectives took the homeowner's guns into custody.


Yep, innocent until proven... , opps, I mean only innocent when proven not guilty.

armedandsafe
June 16, 2006, 11:13 AM
Well, we have them spinning clockwise. Let's see if we can get a little reverse spin on this subject.

BATFE was called because it is the agency of response when explosives are involved. Not Red Cross, not GoodWill and not St Michaels Parish. Good call.

BATFE took possession of the gunpowder because it is ASSUMED that they have the expertise to properly store/dispose of such material. They probably also took possession of the primers. Good call.

The reporter used the word "confiscated" because he was just too breathlessly eager to get an inflamatory phrase in there. SOP for these types. :cuss: :banghead: :fire:

The police took the firearms into safekeeping, rather than leaving them lying about at the scene for just anybody to pick up. Securing a person's valuables when he has no other place to keep them safe? Good call.

OK, guys 'n gals. Spin at will.

Pops

Henry Bowman
June 16, 2006, 11:22 AM
"So far, I've counted about 95 handguns and 70 or 80 long guns. An additional 40 or so long guns were destroyed in the fire. He was a 'reloader,' who made his own bullets, and he also had a few rounds of ammunition for each of the guns in his collection in his home."Why was this confidential imformation about the homeowner's personal property made public by LE. Shame on them.

The homeowner was a collector, not a gun dealer, Loughran said, adding that police will return his guns when he can assure them he's living in an area where they are allowed.So there's a question about whether this property is in the USA? :fire:

Thefabulousfink
June 16, 2006, 11:52 AM
Quote:
The homeowner was a collector, not a gun dealer, Loughran said, adding that police will return his guns when he can assure them he's living in an area where they are allowed.

So there's a question about whether this property is in the USA?

Henry, They are just worried that he might move to somewhere outside the USA... Like to Chicago.:rolleyes:

stevelyn
June 16, 2006, 07:23 PM
BATF was called because they are the agency of response when explosives are involved. Good call.

Road Apples! Smokeless powder for reloading is a flammable. By that same logic BATFEces should be stocking the powder shelf at Wal-Mart.

BATFE took possession of the gunpowder because it's ASSUMED they have the expertise to properly store/dispose of such material. They probably also took possesion of the primers. Good Call.

More Road Apples! Just another example of posturing by BATFEces to make themselves appear to be useful/needed. By the same stretch of logic you could argue that none of us are capable of storing/possessing/disposing of reloading components without BATFEces oversight and supervision.
Expertise on disposal you say? About 5 years ago I had the dubious honor to be present when BATFEces was called by my former department to dispose of some construction grade explosives that had been recovered by a diver on a recreational dive.
Know what their expertise consisted of? Expertly tearing strips of newspaper just so, that they would burn perfectly to BATFEces specifications as to consume all of the explosive material while another BATFEces toady stood back and watched. Experts indeed.:rolleyes: After that little goat rope we did it ourselves.

About the only thing I can remotely agree with is the police securing the firearms only if the owner was not present at the scene to do so himself.
Hopefully, there'll be some follow up on this story so we can see how many hoops he has to jump through to get them back.

OK guys 'n gals. Spin at will.

And around and around she goes.........:neener:

gezzer
June 16, 2006, 08:22 PM
The guns are TOAST who wants them back! The corrosive atmosphere will rust them beyond repair on the ones that were not burned.

Lapse of response time I will bet is the big reason the fire was through the roof on arrival. I will bet they are volunteer Dept.

brickeyee
June 16, 2006, 08:43 PM
If there was powder left for BATFE to take, it did not feed the fire did it?

Smokelss powder is a flammable solid. Like matches or road flares. Is it not an explosive. It cannot detonate.
It even makes lousy pipe bombs.

MechAg94
June 16, 2006, 08:53 PM
If the powder was in sealed tins, how survivable is it?

From reading the article, I got the impression the owner was not there.


Overall, I don't see anything really wrong with what was said in the article. At least it is isn't written assuming the owner is a criminal. It just described the actions taken by the police and federales. It also said the owner will get his property back.

The only thing disturbing this underlines is the increasing involvement of federal police in local matters.

Quaamik
June 16, 2006, 08:59 PM
BATFE - maybe legit to be there, maybe not. They were called by SOMEBODY. That somebody thought there was something they should be there for. As to the powder (what was unburned), it was probably worthless at best, possibly dangerous to use after being withn a house in that intense of a fire.

Local PD - How should they handle 180 - 200 guns? Unless the owner happens to have a semi nearby, he isn't going to be taking them all anywhere. As to releasing them to him once he is somehwere where they are legal, would you prefer they give them back to him, then arrest him for illegal possesion?

Standing Wolf
June 16, 2006, 09:04 PM
Well, yeah, but we're not a police state: after all, the B.A.T.F.E. didn't shoot the guy whose house burned down.

FPrice
June 16, 2006, 09:08 PM
...there were primers or blasting caps...

Which was it?

hotpig
June 16, 2006, 09:18 PM
I bet the fire was through the roof because one saw the fire until it was lighting up the sky. Maybe everyone stood around watching and no one called 911 because they thought some one else had(This happened in my neighborhood once.). The Fire Department has some full time career members so response time should be good.

MechAg94
June 16, 2006, 09:36 PM
Well, yeah, but we're not a police state: after all, the B.A.T.F.E. didn't shoot the guy whose house burned down.:D :D

Cosmoline
June 16, 2006, 09:48 PM
To serve and protect. Right. Where do these animals think they get the power? They admit there is no crime, yet they call in federal agents who take all of the victim's firearms and hold them. By what right? Under who's authority? What statute allows BATF to take arms when THERE IS NO CRIME?

The police took the firearms into safekeeping, rather than leaving them lying about at the scene for just anybody to pick up. Securing a person's valuables when he has no other place to keep them safe? Good call.


WRONG. DEAD WRONG. COMPLETELY WRONG. The police have no more authority to take personal property "for safe keeping" than I do. Unless the area is a crime scene and they have a WARRANT (remember those things??) THEY HAVE NO STINKING RIGHT TO TAKE PROPERTY! NONE! NADA! They just @#$ DO IT, BECAUSE IN THEIR TWISTED LITTLE BRAINS A COP CAN DO WHATEVER A COP WANTS TO DO. I'm sick of it. I wish there had been a bomb there and killed the whole batch of them. Worthless damned animals. They come to put out a fire and the next thing you know they're stealing private property. It's like the fire departments of old--the ones who would loot as they put fires out.

"Nothing I can find -- anywhere on the books -- says he was doing anything illegal," Loughran said.


And you know he checked, the reptile. He tried hard to find something to charge the fellow with. They had BATF and local detectives going over every stinking inch, JUST LOOKING for some little thing they could get this guy on so the DA could announce he'd broken up a crazy man with an "arsenal." These animals are far worse than any criminal I've ever known (and I've run into more than a few around here). They abuse their authority for personal political goals and know there's not a damned thing anyone can do about it. They'll probably have to be sued to get the firearms back, and any that were still repairable won't be by the time they're finally given back.

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